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[Blizzard]

Even with 24 players, I was dropping to like 17 fps (at 1280x800) at one point. :lol There were like four flaming, urine-covered players on one of the freight point. Of course, that map was giving me performance issues even in one of the seemingly small outdoor areas.

I really like that you can charge the arrows in midair now, and it's neat that if you let go, the arrow will fire as soon as you touch the ground without you having to do anything.

show me once where i said none of those are valuable

there's a reason i don't use the backburner and it's always been because i like the airblast and that won't change now

Maybe I shouldn't attempt to be reasonable with the Twiggeroth, but you suggested that people played as if the backburner didn't exist. I tried to explain that the reason people play like that may be that the alternative offered overwhelming advantages.

*edit*
Java says that the Valve update broke both manimod and sourcemod (at least for Linux servers) due to Valve changing something to do with the Linux file system. Awesome! :lol

 

[Iadien]

So tired of having to format my PC after major TF2 updates to fix some weird ass lag that I get. No, defragmenting cache files, reinstalling the game, etc. does not fix the issue. =(

 

[Javaman]

Why is the server only 24 players?

Nice round number dividable by many!

I found some info on the Source mod forum. Apparently they are having trouble too.

And in addition to those changes, we have made large changes in the Linux engine, moving to a newer compiler, adding multiple GCC specific optimizations and changing the filesystem layout for binaries to match more closely to other platforms builds.



These changes have a few consequences you should be aware of. We have increased the minimum glibc version to 2.3.6, our survey shows that over 95% of you already have newer glibc's so this shouldn't generally be an issue. The new compiler and optimizations has also changed the binary format, if you are using tools that do binary patches into our engine (SourceMod and the like) then these will no longer function, the authors of those products will need to provide updates to get them working again. We have also increased our usage of threads and mutex constructs, if you see hangs or deadlocks on your server (when you didn't before) a gdb backtrace of the process will help us pin down problem.

Valve fail.

 

[Jangaroo]

It's good to see that they didn't nerf the sniper rifle or anything. Kind of bummed about the changes with the Pyro though.

Spoiler

Oh christ, Sciz must be ecstatic about the Heavy changes...

 

[Twig]

Maybe I shouldn't attempt to be reasonable with the Twiggeroth, but you suggested that people played as if the backburner didn't exist. I tried to explain that the reason people play like that may be that the alternative offered overwhelming advantages.

no i said people are fucking stupid because the backburner exists for those who don't want to use the airblast yet they pretend it doesn't

and what i said remains true and your logic doesn't even apply to people who hate the airblast, which is the group of people i was talking about, which was obvious from context

BAM

SUCK IT BITCHESSSSSSS

 

[Blizzard]

no i said people are fucking stupid because the backburner exists for those who don't want to use the airblast yet they pretend it doesn't

and what i said remains true and your logic doesn't even apply to people who hate the airblast, which is the group of people i was talking about, which was obvious from context

BAM

SUCK IT BITCHESSSSSSS

I did not know there were many people who wanted to play pyro but did not want to have airblast available. I was referring to people in general not using the backburner.

 

[Proven]

I may stop playing Pyro. Pyro was my favorite class. Next time I get to play I'll see how the new airblast feels.

 

[EvilMario]

The new airblast is incredible, but it really changes the way the Pyro can play. It's a total defensive/utility now, and suicide-Pyro will probably disappear. I'd like Backburner to have the old compression blast, which would make it half way decent, and probably used over the flamethrower.

It is a riot to juggle with the new blast though.

 

[Blizzard]

Oh, and moving the craft button to the higher-level screen while not still keeping it on the backpack screen where you can see more items was dumb, Valve. Why not both places.

 

[Oreoleo]

Update OMGZ.

Heavy++ I've been using him more recently and all the changes are a good thing. Though I see even more "You were killed AGAIN by Sciz" in my future

Pyro-- I might be the worst reflector ever. One of my best classes nerfed in one fell swoop. Maybe I'll start using the Backburner more now.

And the Scout changes will undoubtedly give me incentive to try and get decent with him but I will fail horribly.

 

[Proven]

edit:

I just heard that the changelog got updated a few more times. One of the things they forgot to mention was Crit-a-Cola. The other is the fact that they finally made cp_freight an official community map. Sorry Java.

Edit: Also, it looks like there were some changes made to it: http://vanillatf2.org/2010/04/team-fortress-2-update/

Edit2: And Crit-a-Cola demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZc2I-i5hc8

 

[Zombie James]

Wow, huge updates today. Looking forward to giving it a spin.

 

[Iadien]

I like the previous version of freight more, oh well.

 

[Javaman]

No fix tonight.

http://www.mani-admin-plugin.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=58&func=view&catid=8&id=84589

Ok, fixed = it loads, but that's about it.

It's late here, and I have work tomorrow morning, so I'm off to bed. A complete fix should be out later on today.

Today, VALVe has updated TF2 in a major way. They have redone the way they compile TF2 in linux, increasing the minimum GLIBC version to 2.3.6.

In doing so, they also have redone the way the binaries are named.

I have recompiled MAP v1.2 U, and gotten it to load fine, but it will crash shortly after clients start joining.

Hopefully a fix will be coming out sometime on Thursday, April 29th.

Thanks for your patience!

 

[commissar]

So with the update I was messing around with the bots. Spawned massive sentry nests and practicing my spy stabs etc.
And then I found out despite them being bots they still up my stats -_-

Which were already ruined due to that cashworks cap point bug, but still



though having entire teams of spies running at each other wildly shooting their pistols was pretty damn hilarious.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

It's good to see that they didn't nerf the sniper rifle or anything. Kind of bummed about the changes with the Pyro though.

Spoiler

Oh christ, Sciz must be ecstatic about the Heavy changes...

Spoiler

BEHIND YOU

SURPRISE JANGAROO!!!!!!

 

[Jangaroo]

Spoiler

BEHIND YOU

SURPRISE JANGAROO!!!!!!

You know what makes this worse? You jumped on another server before I got to get my revenge during the map change. You're not safe from me.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

You know what makes this worse? You jumped on another server before I got to get my revenge during the map change. You're not safe from me.

Oh, I had to go medic a team that was having a scrimmage. Not avoiding ya at all! In fact, I was back on later and played a bit before I got a memory error and had to exit.

Besides, I told you I was coming up to you! How much more warning do you need? How many other spies do you know actually tell you they're coming for you?

It's really not my fault you snipers (sciz excluded) don't pay attention. I've had more than one instance where I cry out 'HIIIIIIIIIIIII SNIPER' while repeatedly stabbing them with my ubersaw. In fact, tonight, I actually did it on Goldrush and finished off a scoped in sniper before going back to rescue Oreo's fat ass.

 

[MNC]

heavy is soo fast now :O

 

[Jangaroo]

Oh, I had to go medic a team that was having a scrimmage. Not avoiding ya at all! In fact, I was back on later and played a bit before I got a memory error and had to exit.

Besides, I told you I was coming up to you! How much more warning do you need? How many other spies do you know actually tell you they're coming for you?

It's really not my fault you snipers (sciz excluded) don't pay attention. I've had more than one instance where I cry out 'HIIIIIIIIIIIII SNIPER' while repeatedly stabbing them with my ubersaw. In fact, tonight, I actually did it on Goldrush and finished off a scoped in sniper before going back to rescue Oreo's fat ass.

You know what, I want a ten second warning this time. And Sciz doesn't count. He has some anti-spy radar and it's even more poignant that he's a career Heavy.

 

[Hazaro]

pewpewpew all of you

 

[Shadowlink283]

ahahahaha blizzard,
WE OWNED DURING THAT GAME(respects to Javaman who helped a lot 2) but zero and I sent u guys straight to bed:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Proven]

But not the backburner you mean?

Why couldn't they have just made the backburner overpowered?

They did make it overpowered once. Then Valve nerfed it, ending all hope of the Pyro being a frontline class ever again.

 

[Blizzard]

ahahahaha blizzard,
WE OWNED DURING THAT GAME(respects to Javaman who helped a lot 2) but zero and I sent u guys straight to bed:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I'm not sure which game you meant. I was screwing around and failing with scout or sniper or something around 1 a.m. when I needed to get up really early, and I finally managed to tear myself away and go to bed. :lol Freight was STARTING to grow on me when I was playing with spy, but it is still so huge and odd.

I did manage to do pretty well with heavy on some maps. The medics were mostly doing a good job. And at one point I and the other soldier were doing ridiculous damage chaining buff banners into enclosed spaces in hoodoo. I got some achievement for a triple domination in one life in there. Heavy shall be my comfort class (unless they nerf it again) when pyro disappoints me!

Also, who wants to bet that a future update will remove the critical-hit penalty to crit-a-cola scouts? :lol

 

[Javaman]

I'm not sure which game you meant. I was screwing around and failing with scout or sniper or something around 1 a.m. when I needed to get up really early, and I finally managed to tear myself away and go to bed. :lol Freight was STARTING to grow on me when I was playing with spy, but it is still so huge and odd.

I did manage to do pretty well with heavy on some maps. The medics were mostly doing a good job. And at one point I and the other soldier were doing ridiculous damage chaining buff banners into enclosed spaces in hoodoo. I got some achievement for a triple domination in one life in there. Heavy shall be my comfort class (unless they nerf it again) when pyro disappoints me!

Also, who wants to bet that a future update will remove the critical-hit penalty to crit-a-cola scouts? :lol

Yeah, that was me as the other soldier on hoodoo. Some how we got synced and were using each others buff banner to charge ours. It was quite deadly. Whoever was playing the engineer was also a big credit to the team with that dispenser and sentry to fall back on during reloading and to top off health.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

Both the Heavy buffs and the Pyro nerfs seem kinda unneccessary, although admittedly I haven't played the game yet after this patch. Meanwhile, the Demoman's explosives are still incredibly annoying thanks to their, shall we say, generous hitboxes.

And could've done without Freight.

 

[Boonoo]

Also, who wants to bet that a future update will remove the critical-hit penalty to crit-a-cola scouts? :lol

I really can't see it as being worth using with at the very least that penalty removed. Compared to the buff banner it's a real piece of shit.

 

[rar]

im not sure the flamethrower shouldve been downed that much..

but i do like the heavy buff

I really can't see it as being worth using with at the very least that penalty removed. Compared to the buff banner it's a real piece of shit.

i dont understand why they added 50 health and made you crittable.. seems sort of redundant? i wonder what removing both would do

 

[Boonoo]

If they took away both it still has the real penalty of taking away a good bit of scout mobility and the pistol. It would reduce the scouts ability in dogfight like situations, but it could be nice for ninja style drops on people. I'm not sure it would be worth it for comp, especially since most of might fights are against other scouts, and without a pistol I think i'd be at a real disadvantage.

Against other scouts the minicrit and 50 health even out; it will still be 1 meatshot + a few pistol shots to kill; but demos and soldiers will chew right through that bonus.

 

[EvilMario]

Is the 50+ Health Bonus stacked with the buff from a Medic? ie; 235 health max for a buffed Scout isn't horrible. A shame about the Mini-Critical effect being only six seconds, according to t2wiki.net, but 30 seconds on the health bonus is not too bad.

 

[Proven]

Is the 50+ Health Bonus stacked with the buff from a Medic? ie; 235 health max for a buffed Scout isn't horrible. A shame about the Mini-Critical effect being only six seconds, according to t2wiki.net, but 30 seconds on the health bonus is not too bad.

Probably not.

 

[Blizzard]

Probably not.

The chocolate bar doesn't stack either (which is one of the reasons that item is also mostly useless IMHO).

 

[EvilMario]

The chocolate bar is even more useless, thanks to the inability to drop it for your Medics/Teammates that need heals.

 

[Proven]

The chocolate bar is even more useless, thanks to the inability to drop it for your Medics/Teammates that need heals.

It's pretty much only to be used in the worst case scenario where you need to jump into a fight and have no medic. Helps you come out on top of normally close fights, but it still feels so situational, and eating it to heal is so slow...

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

You know what, I want a ten second warning this time. And Sciz doesn't count. He has some anti-spy radar and it's even more poignant that he's a career Heavy.

Hahaha anti-spy radar? If you hear my convo with sciz after a failed assassination, I always ask him, "Did you hear me or was that a random spy check?" I've learned there is a window of opportunity, but it's really small and it's better for me to decloak far away and get him from above or around a corner.

That one backstab on you, Jangaroo. I called out I was going to get you after I saw you in the window, ran by all your teammates, decloaked right out of the door, sauntered up to you, missed my first swipe, but you gave me a freebie second!

As for you 2pro bastards....you're starting to make me raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage! I'm playing classes I don't normally play and you guys come in and wreck me! >:/

 

[Twig]

I don't usually have much trouble backstabbing Sciz. O:

(My problem lies in not being OBVIOUS SPY IS OBVIOUS when I'm not already behind enemy lines. ;_

 

[Azure Dream]

Helps you come out on top of normally close fights, but it still feels so situational, and eating it to heal is so slow...

It should probably have a different, shorter eating animation. Maybe half the length, or even shorter than that, with no taunts afterward about Sandviches either.

 

[Boonoo]

So if you build in console there's no limit on how many sentries etc you can make.

 

[Yasae]

The heavy buffs are rather minimal. It makes them a touch faster while spinning up, but if you play heavy you're already spinning before you turn the corner or you're dead..

...Except - now - when there's a pyro. They REALLY nerfed the damage, holy crap. I always knew the flame reach was extremely overzealous with what seemed like the occasional 10 or 20 feet reach, but the damage nerf should've been 10% tops. I also can't help but feel those compression blasts are going to make ubers even less useful, and it makes it a lot easier for pyros to compression blast people into corners and not let them get away, which is basically insta-kill. Can't they at least program in some extra physics that slide you out of the corner a little so you don't die one of the cheapest deaths ever seen? Still, the power and range seem to have stayed the same, so we'll see.

The burn damage time should not have been shortened.

They should have 25% less knockback for a heavy, or perhaps an item they equip for less knockback with varying penalties added. There's no fucking way he should ever go flying across a map short of a building exploding. He's heavy goddammit. I don't need any of this faster spin bullshit. It hardly helps. Kuro keeps saying I'd like it or Sciz would like it, but he knows it's a very, very small advantage if at all.

 

[Twig]

yasae you sure do complain a lot

;_;

 

[Iadien]

So if you build in console there's no limit on how many sentries etc you can make.

haha

 

[Javaman]

Has it been confirmed that the pyro nerf affects both throwers?

Maybe they left the back burner alone, slightly increasing it's usefulness.

 

[Iadien]

Has it been confirmed that the pyro nerf affects both throwers?

Maybe they left the back burner alone, slightly increasing it's usefulness.

I would think they left the backburner alone, there needs to be a reason to use it over the default weapon besides crits from behind.

 

[pilonv1]

So if you build in console there's no limit on how many sentries etc you can make.

 

[Yasae]

yasae you sure do complain a lot

;_;

Yet this is one of the more balanced games I've played.

MW was was not well balanced at all. It was nade city 24/7, awarded easy insta-kills to players who weren't really all that great, and had some of the snappiest auto-aim I've ever seen. The maps have lots of unnatural, open vectors, and it creates a sense of stress that wouldn't exist were the gameplay stage and center. The spawn camping sometimes hit ludicrous levels on certain maps.

Quake Wars was better, though it had plenty of spawn camping, sloppy hit detection (rockets landing on people's feet and them surviving), and grouchy players. It was heavily objective-based, and unless you made a staggering amount of kills in a game, you would never score highest. Some of the vehicles were also prone to abuse (tormentor) as they could outrun several rockets AND fire off an endless supply of flares if necessary (there's a cool-down timer, but it's not very long.) Unless you hit them flying towards you, people with joystick control would easily dodge most or all fire.

F.E.A.R. Combat was a bread-and-butter shooter. It was fairly balanced until it came to melee. Punching was a two hit kill save for a headshot, everything else was a one shot. Lag into a scissor kick a few milliseconds too late, you lose. Too bad. It also reduced your score by how many deaths you had, i.e. one death was -1. A kill was worth 2. The maps were good and mainly relied on pathing over aim. You had to know them well enough to find people before they found you. Or you could die a lot. There were some cheaters, but they were usually obvious.

Then again, it involved jumping around corners and shift-clicking mid-air to get kills. It wasn't a slow game.

So they nerfed pyro damage drastically because?

They made the heavy spin-up faster because?

Because nothing. I don't even play pyro very often, but I could instantly tell how much their damage got reduced. It was night and day. It took several to kill me on fair ground where it would normally take one. They have the flare gun for anything beyond short range (whoop dee doo,) yet their primary focus got scaled back drastically. The best pyros drop in from out of nowhere. This throws a wrench in that strategy, but I guess it could make the backburner worthwhile. If slammed into a group of enemies from behind, that weapon crits like crazy.

Speaking of which, pyro crits from the regular flamethrower always felt rather weak.

 

[Blizzard]

Yet this is one of the more balanced games I've played.

MW was was not well balanced at all. It was nade city 24/7, awarded easy insta-kills to players who weren't really all that great, and had some of the snappiest auto-aim I've ever seen. The maps have lots of unnatural, open vectors, and it creates a sense of stress that wouldn't exist were the gameplay stage and center. The spawn camping sometimes hit ludicrous levels on certain maps.

Quake Wars was better, though it had plenty of spawn camping, sloppy hit detection (rockets landing on people's feet and them surviving), and grouchy players. It was heavily objective-based, and unless you made a staggering amount of kills in a game, you would never score highest. Some of the vehicles were also prone to abuse (tormentor) as they could outrun several rockets AND fire off an endless supply of flares if necessary (there's a cool-down timer, but it's not very long.) Unless you hit them flying towards you, people with joystick control would easily dodge most or all fire.

F.E.A.R. Combat was a bread-and-butter shooter. It was fairly balanced until it came to melee. Punching was a two hit kill save for a headshot, everything else was a one shot. Lag into a scissor kick a few milliseconds too late, you lose. Too bad. It also reduced your score by how many deaths you had, i.e. one death was -1. A kill was worth 2. The maps were good and mainly relied on pathing over aim. You had to know them well enough to find people before they found you. Or you could die a lot. There were some cheaters, but they were usually obvious.

Then again, it involved jumping around corners and shift-clicking mid-air to get kills. It wasn't a slow game.

So they nerfed pyro damage drastically because?

They made the heavy spin-up faster because?

Because nothing. I don't even play pyro very often, but I could instantly tell how much their damage got reduced. It was night and day. It took several to kill me on fair ground where it would normally take one. They have the flare gun for anything beyond short range (whoop dee doo,) yet their primary focus got scaled back drastically. The best pyros drop in from out of nowhere. This throws a wrench in that strategy, but I guess it could make the backburner worthwhile. If slammed into a group of enemies from behind, that weapon crits like crazy.

Speaking of which, pyro crits from the regular flamethrower always felt rather weak.

Pyros are not long-range classes, and there's the shotgun for more consistent damage. The flare gun is mostly for harassing people far away and getting the ~40 crit damage if you're pro, I think.

 

[Boonoo]

So they nerfed pyro damage drastically because?

They made the heavy spin-up faster because?

Because the heavy was awful at protecting a medic. The combo works okay in more disorganized situations, but in any coordinated setting the heavy/medic combo doesn't cut the mustard.

Picking off medics that are being pocketed by a heavy is pretty trivial in one on two situations especially compared to the soldier/medic combo. Sure the heavy will probably survive a scout attack, but if the scout is focused on the medic the medic sure won't. A soldier or demo can respond faster and disrupt the attack; a heavy just doesn't have that kind of response time. This change helps that; it's an overall boost to mobility--and mobility is key in low player situations.


The pyro change forces the pyro to play smarter, more defensively if they're using the flamethrower. This turns them into much more of a support class. Pyros will be a much better team player now. They'll be able to stick around other players--demos and soldiers--dishing out damage and protecting them from other attacks. As a scout I love finding solo demos; it's great to get in close range and blast away. That won't be possible with a pyro close by.

Both of these changes help team based play. And I'm pretty excited about the possibility of both of these classes being used more often in the 6v6 comp play.

Pyros are not long-range classes, and there's the shotgun for more consistent damage. The flare gun is mostly for harassing people far away and getting the ~40 crit damage if you're pro, I think.

I think that a slightly buffed flare would go really nicely with the more defensive pyro. It would go great for pyros hanging beside demos and soldiers.

 

[caromelo]

Lol the Engineer exploits are making it difficult to have a good game going after the novelty of a bajillion sentries wears off.

 

[MrPing1000]

Well TF2 isn't fun for me anymore. I play very aggressively, I don't really mind dying over and over to a blockade, I'm always looking to push and aren't really interested in sitting back in the safe zone.

My favourite class is scout, followed by spy and pyro.

Scout has with every weapon unlock become harder to play well as. The scout unlocks are terrible (they've been altered more than any other set of unlocks), they are hugely situational. Oh and I don't really care but the scout unlocks were the hardest to obtain requiring players to go out of their way, the heavy ones I did in 8hours just playing. Scout is more fun to play on defence, on attack especially in pl maps it's nearing useless.

Pyro is all sorts of fucked up now. Ok fine u make airblast more powerful, but airblasting isn't easy, well it isn't easy to kill people. I can do it, I'm not very consistant though, a demoman kill will be rare, arrow err I've done it like 2 or 3 times ever.

Pyro's flame is a surprise up close weapon, airblasting at point blank is almost entirely luck unless it's just a soldier spaming between rocket cooldowns.

Fire itself is reasonably easy to survive now.

Pyro went from being the durr w+m1 class to being the most difficult class to play, I don't understand this at all. Airblasting is simply not a reliable source of damage. Oh and the flair gun is even more useless than before.

Heavy with a medic is too powerful.

I dunno if I've gotten shittier since TF2 came out, but there once was a time where I'd get annoyed if my K dipped below 2:1, now I'm struggling for 1.4:1.

Course this is just what I'm feeling right now, I'll probably get better at airblasting over time and not care eventually or they'll change something else.

 

[Twig]

Man, yasae, I was just teasing. O: I didn't expect a giant wall of text in response!

...

Also: BACKBURNER JAGOPIUWERAGN IT EXISTS YOUFOOOOOOOLS

Also also: SERIOUSLY BACKBURNER WILL STILL DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AS IT USED TO FOR FUCK'S SAKE

Also also also: BACKBURNERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR