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[Acerac]

Well I thought it was just slightly stronger. Just horrible at one hit kills due to the no random crit thing.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Well I thought it was just slightly stronger. Just horrible at one hit kills due to the no random crit thing.

My K/D ratio with it suggests it is weaker.

Liberty Launcher/Direct Hit/Black Box > > > Cow Wrangler for killing purposes.

 

[derFeef]

Well I thought it was just slightly stronger. Just horrible at one hit kills due to the no random crit thing.

The rockets seem to have less splash, or impact damage, not sure yet. The charge is powerful, yes, but you can dodge that very easily. Overall it is weaker I would say, like every other RL compared to the Vanilla one

 

[Yeef]

This is one of the biggest deals to me. If there is a minisentry anywhere, you have to run and hide

Only if you use both space weapons. Shotguns take out mini-sentries with the quickness and the new rocket launcher will tkae out the engineer faster than the stock one.

not to mention you can't shoot the charged shot early so classes like scout should have a field day murdering charging, frozen in place soldiers. As I mentioned, a fully charged shot from like 1 foot away into one of the sword demomen resulted in him killing me and having 90% health left due to the health recharge. So maybe...50% damage from a full shot or something to classes like that?

it's silly to compare teh charge shot vs. demoknights. They take greatly reduced damage from explosives (the charged shot) and, if they're using the persuader, they gain 120 health from dropped weapons.

The new launcher has more ramp up; it does more damage in close range which means it's better than the other launchers against Scouts, Spies and Pyros and any other class that needs to get in close to do damage. At mid-range it's about the same as the stock launcher, but with an extra shot. The only real downside is that it can't crit at all, but that may very well be a bug.

 

[mojiimbo]

I dunno, I don't consider myself to be particularly good at winning encounters but I went 55-15 earlier and I doubt I would have done that well with a Liberty Launcer(which I almost always use) due in large part to the infinite ammo and having five rockets instead of three. I found the charge shot to be mostly harmless in practice, though. I almost never got any kills with that.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

The Mangler has like, 5 points less base damage at mid and long range, but it ramps up to 10 points higher at close range. Anyone telling you it's a significant difference over all is fooling themselves.

I also strongly suspect that people thinking that it's slower or that it has smaller splash are just getting fooled by the weird projectile and trail.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The new launcher has more ramp up; it does more damage in close range which means it's better than the other launchers against Scouts, Spies and Pyros and any other class that needs to get in close to do damage.

edit: misread.

I also strongly suspect that people thinking that it's slower or that it has smaller splash are just getting fooled by the weird projectile and trail.

We could be getting fooled by the smaller explosion when compared to the regular RL. It certainly *appears* (that is, visually) to have a smaller splash damage field.

As for speed, I'll do some tests on an empty server. Time travel speeds and see how it compares.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Why are people acting like they have to charge up a charge shot and not just use the extra rocket.

 

[Acerac]

That's another thing that has been bugging me, people acting like infinite ammo on a soldier is a significant advantage of some sort. I just don't see it.

How often do you people run out of ammo with soldier? 24 shots is 6 full reloads of a rocket launcher, 8 if you use one of the varieties with 3 shots. Do you often unload 6 full reloads of rocket launchers without being near some ammo? I mean, with 24 shots you should manage to get maybe 1 or 2 kills bare minimum. That would fill your ammo right up! That's assuming you don't run across one ammo crate during the time you fully unload your rocket launcher 6 times.

Now give heavies a weapon without ammo and you'll see me saying it is overpowered.

 

[derFeef]

The new launcher has more ramp up; it does more damage in close range which means it's better than the other launchers against Scouts, Spies and Pyros and any other class that needs to get in close to do damage. At mid-range it's about the same as the stock launcher, but with an extra shot. The only real downside is that it can't crit at all, but that may very well be a bug.

Interesting, thanks for the infos. I seem to have a harder time taking out enemies with it but I will investigate further. Is the splash radius the same?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

That's another thing that has been bugging me, people acting like infinite ammo on a soldier is a significant advantage of some sort. I just don't see it.

How often do you people run out of ammo with soldier? 24 shots is 6 full reloads of a rocket launcher, 8 if you use one of the varieties with 3 shots. Do you often unload 6 full reloads of rocket launchers without being near some ammo? I mean, with 24 shots you should manage to get maybe 1 or 2 kills bare minimum. That would fill your ammo right up! That's assuming you don't run across one ammo crate during the time you fully unload your rocket launcher 6 times.

Now give heavies a weapon without ammo and you'll see me saying it is overpowered.

Agree with that. It's pretty rare to run out of ammo as a soldier.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I'm on tr_walkway firing at a target with the Mangler and the RL, using a stopwatch.

It hit the wall at the exact same time, down the tenth of a second.

 

[CornBurrito]

I fucking hate when people don't protect the medic... like I am healing a Heavy and the fucker lets an enemy Pyro slip past (because he is focused on getting to the Capture Point) and fucking axe me to death.

 

[Blizzard]

I'm on tr_walkway firing at a target with the Mangler and the RL, using a stopwatch.

It hit the wall at the exact same time, down the tenth of a second.

Can you time the reload speed for comparison?

Also, I think someone else earlier in this thread used tr_walkway and itemtest and concluded you didn't have self damage and couldn't do rocket jumping with the mangler or something, so I will conclude that tr_walkway CLEARLY distorts time and space and can't be used for any reliable testing. ;p

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I'll have to go to the itemtest map since walkway has autoreload but alright.

Also to note: didn't notice any splash damage difference when shooting the bots (though obviously this wasn't a scientific test). I think it's just the small explosion of the Mangler throwing people off.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Alright tried it. It's hard to tell because of when the animation ends vs. when the rocket is ready, etc., but, it seems like that "out of rockets" longer reload animation is slightly longer on the Mangler by maybe half a second, while the regular reload is nearly the same.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I just don't see the advantage here.

Notes:

1.) 0.5s slower reload on the first round than the other RLs

2.) Weaker than any other RL outside of point blank (and even then, not the most powerful RL)

3.) 1/3 the damage any other RL does to sentries! Or less!

4.) +12 base point blank damage, but only +5 maxed vs most RL's. Still -20 behind a point blank Direct Hit.

5.) No Krit kills mean no one-shot kills against any class but the Spy...which is true for any RL except the DH.


Someone tell me what I'm missing here. I see CLEAR advantages and disadvantages. You're going to lose most encounters vs a Soldier with a RL if you have to reload thanks to it taking damn near 2x as long to get off another shot after reloading a round. And you mine as well not even try if you see a sentry with an Engineer behind it. You couldn't destroy it if you wanted to.

 

[Forkball]

Someone tell me what I'm missing here.

It shoots lasers and your victims disintegrate. PEW PEW.

The new shotgun seems to be more versatile and useful than the rocket launcher IMO.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

"if you have to reload"

You have an extra rocket and the damage difference is nearly negligible. Also according to the Wiki the regular reload speed is actually faster on the Mangler.

 

[Acerac]

I guess it is for people who enjoy playing soldier, but do not find taking out engies or killing people in one hit to be essential?

Personally those are the two reasons I use the class, but to each their own. One extra shot without reloading is pretty cool I guess?

*Edit*

I was thinking the same thing, fork. I'm a bit sad I didn't craft that instead of the Cowtipper but whatever.

Yes I know that isn't the name. I don't care.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

It shoots lasers and your victims disintegrate. PEW PEW.

The new shotgun seems to be more versatile and useful than the rocket launcher IMO.

Totally agree. But the round travels so slow man. Feels hard to line people up with it. Reminds me of trying to hit people with a Loch-N-Load. It's like playing quarterback and trying to hit cutting receivers in stride. lol.

I do like using it, regardless.

"if you have to reload"

You have an extra rocket and the damage difference is nearly negligible.

having to reload in battle is about as common as breathing. and when you do, you're at a great disadvantage.

If I see an appreciable change in my K/D ratio today, I'll agree with you.

 

[evlcookie]

I finally found weapons this week. Looks like i've found 8 in total so far, Will just keep idling in my server while i'm at work for another 12 hours and if nothing else is found, I guess i'm done for the week.

They are all crappy items too yay.

I didn't have any issues going up against soldiers with the ray guns last night when i played. I don't see a real compelling reason to start using one, I've gotten used to the speed and feel of the liberty launcher. It's now my new best friend.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I didn't have any issues going up against soldiers with the ray guns last night when i played. I don't see a real compelling reason to start using one, I've gotten used to the speed and feel of the liberty launcher. It's now my new best friend.

outside of the novelty, I can't either.

I suppose if you have enough team coordination (lol), having one guy with it would be good if a team has effectively placed sentries. Shoot it then have the team kill it before it wakes up.

People who want RL power and maximum inflicted damage will continue to use the Direct Hit.

People who prefer speed will continue to use the Liberty Launcher.

People who are concerned with health will continue to use the Black Box.


The new weapon doesn't change any of those realities.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

lol who uses the direct hit

 

[Dreams-Visions]

lol who uses the direct hit

I see it every day.

I haven't used it for awhile, but only because I've moved onto the Liberty Launcher and Strange RL. It is, however, the most powerful RL in the game by any measure, at any range. By a fairly wide margin.

 

[Acerac]

My idling accounts seem to not want to get any drops again this week.

I really don't understand what is with the inconsistency. Very annoying.

Maybe I'll just idle manually instead of text idling in the future. Takes another minute per account per week, but that's pretty much it.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

With a splash damage radius that makes it worthless and out of favor with most good Soldiers.

 

[Forkball]

The Direct Hit is good for sentries and also if you played a shitload of Quake III Arena.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

The Direct Hit is good for sentries and also if you played a shitload of Quake III Arena.

bubububut the soldier is SOOO much slower than q3a
I always try to adapt (I was decent sometimes in q3, but not really great), but I fail at a lot of forward rocket jumps and general maneuvering, just because the stupid soldier is soo sloow

 

[Chinner]

i never see people using the direct hit. it's usually either standard rl or the liberty launcher. now its mostly the space gun.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

i never see people using the direct hit. it's usually either standard rl or the liberty launcher. now its mostly the space gun.

Give them a week to get the space laser novelty out of their systems. Things will sort themselves out.

With a splash damage radius that makes it worthless and out of favor with most good Soldiers.

Really? Seems like if you're a really good soldier, you'd prefer it, no? Because you land most of your shots on target. That's how I always thought of it. Like the Loch-N-Load. High reward weapons for highly skilled players.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Give them a week to get the space laser novelty out of their systems. Things will sort themselves out.

Or just play with a random RL and own the rankings, then look how everyone else changes to soldier w/ rocket launcher.

 

[DarkKyo]

For me its Mangler>LL>RL>(BB and DH)

... damn there are really that many primary alternates for soldier? fuck

 

[Chinner]

Really? Seems like if you're a really good soldier, you'd prefer it, no? Because you land most of your shots on target. That's how I always thought of it. Like the Loch-N-Load. High reward weapons for highly skilled players.

Most highly skilled players keep to the GL.

 

[ArtistDude88]

Ok all you idlers out there, anyone get an extra Righteous Bison last night?

My Backpack

I'll go 2 for 1 on my first page or 1 item + a scrap.

 

[DarkKyo]

What time did the space gun update hit last night?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Really? Seems like if you're a really good soldier, you'd prefer it, no? Because you land most of your shots on target. That's how I always thought of it. Like the Loch-N-Load. High reward weapons for highly skilled players.

Good Soldiers aim for the feet and go for splash damage to pop people up in the air and keep them from moving around. The Direct Hit makes that much harder. Even Sentry busting can be harder in some scenarios: if you don't have a clear shot, a good Soldier can just aim for the wall or ceiling behind or above the Sentry to hit it and the Engie with splash damage, thus taking them out without directly hitting them.

It's supposed to be a high-skill high-reward weapon, but like the LnL the downside is debilitating, while the original weapons were already high-skill high-reward.

 

[Borgnine]

Haven't used the new launcher but it seems like a pretty solid sidegrade to me. An extra rocket is a big deal, but the lack of crit kills it for me. Seems like it's great for more consistent but boring play.

Really? Seems like if you're a really good soldier, you'd prefer it, no? Because you land most of your shots on target

No.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Good Soldiers aim for the feet and go for splash damage to pop people up in the air and keep them from moving around. The Direct Hit makes that much harder. Even Sentry busting can be harder in some scenarios: if you don't have a clear shot, a good Soldier can just aim for the wall or ceiling behind or above the Sentry to hit it and the Engie with splash damage, thus taking them out without directly hitting them.

It's supposed to be a high-skill high-reward weapon, but like the LnL the downside is debilitating, while the original weapons were already high-skill high-reward.

that's always been my experience too. I just assumed there was a class of player that was significantly more skilled than I, and those weapons were created for them with which they own the world.

Guess not. Cool.

 

[DarkKyo]

that's always been my experience too. I just assumed there was a class of player that was significantly more skilled than I, and those weapons were created for them with which they own the world.

Guess not. Cool.

If you are accurate enough with the Loch then you can do some extremely heavy damage. It's amazing for tight hallways or for taking down engineer crap. Just pop out from behind a corner and lob 'em in there. A skillful Demoman should be able to get the pitch and placement right to knock down their buildings. The lack of ammo kinda sucks but in the heat of battle most players don't have full health anyways so all it takes is one well placed Loch grenade on a group of players to take out a few of them.

 

[The Judge]

Ok all you idlers out there, anyone get an extra Righteous Bison last night?

My Backpack

I'll go 2 for 1 on my first page or 1 item + a scrap.

I know it's not exactly what you want... but I'm kind of interested on that extra Postal Pummeler of yours. Would you want any scrap/metals for that?

 

[Uriah]

Alright I'm still looking for a Tomislav and have the following uber weapons to trade for it:

The Eviction Notice
The Bazaar Bargain
The Persian Persuader
The Solemn Vow
The Liberty Launcher

Steam ID is Treecubed

Oh, and I would also love to have those new soldier weapons if anyone is interested in trading them for one of the uber weapons listed above.

 

[SteveWinwood]

For Clivefrog: http://withleather.uproxx.com/2011/07/the-dugout-how-to-pick-up-soccer-girls-on-the-internet

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

I got two postal pummelers if peeps wanna trade for em. Just send me a request.

 

[Blizzard]

With a splash damage radius that makes it worthless and out of favor with most good Soldiers.

The #1 use of direct hit in my opinion is the rageswitch one.

Get killed 2-3 times by a sniper no one is handling, ugh, go ragesniper, kill him, switch back.

Get killed 2-3 times by an annoying sentry no one is handling, ugh, go ragedemo (or direct hit if there's line of sight). Direct hit is especially good for long lines of sight since you can fire off all four shots, and if the engineer messes up repairing for any two, it's gone. Once annoying sentry is gone, switch back to whatever.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The #1 use of direct hit in my opinion is the rageswitch one.

Get killed 2-3 times by a sniper no one is handling, ugh, go ragesniper, kill him, switch back.

haha. REAL TALK.

Nothing worse than teammates that let snipers run amok. Especially when you have snipers on your team. You just want to strangle the fuck out of them.

 

[JackEtc]

Do I have any valid reason behind wanting to keep my vintage weapons? I always hesitate and end up not crafting them. Am I just being naive about the value of vintage weapons, or what?

 

[DarkKyo]

Do I have any valid reason behind wanting to keep my vintage weapons? I always hesitate and end up not crafting them. Am I just being naive about the value of vintage weapons, or what?

Only if you like collecting them... some people do I guess.
I started trading mine away for scrap earlier. One vintage can go for like 1-1.5 scrap so that's not bad. I'll just use the non-vintage versions, it doesn't matter to me.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Do I have any valid reason behind wanting to keep my vintage weapons? I always hesitate and end up not crafting them. Am I just being naive about the value of vintage weapons, or what?

Well, in theory they will increase in value over time as they will become more rare (as people craft them, for example). How much they will increase is probably minimal.

Most vintage weapons go for 1-2 scrap. Some weapons are more valuable, though. Let us know which Vintage weapons and hats you have and we can give you an idea of what to do with them.

 

[derFeef]

The new RL needs a few things I think.

- Tune down the effects a little bit, mostly the splash one. The clipping is ugly.
- Add some impact sounds and raise the travel sounds a bit.
- Lower the firing frequency to balance that 5th rocket.