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Team Fortress 2 |OT4| Official Halo Thread of Polearms and High Fashion

T

thefro

Member
AcciDante said:
FOX won.
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Should put you guys at #2/#3 ranking in Steel Red. Might get some props from the people doing the rankings on the UGC forums now.

Good news is you should do pretty well next week with a KOTH map coming up, even though you'll be facing really good competition (probably IFA if they didn't lose)
 
T

thefro

Member
Hein's doing a Q&A on the UGC forums

Some really good metagame stuff as usual, but I'll point out both these in particular:

Hein said:
How do we know when to push?
The best way to know this is to have a few people hitting tab. Or if you see that your team has killed a few of their team, quickly hit tab so you can see who exactly was killed and who on your team is up. If you've killed the main killing classes of their team and you still have some solid numbers, QUICKLY call for the push. If you don't have the numbers, you can still do a slow push and at least get a presence.

What's a slow push?
A slow push is when you may not necessarily have the advantage you want, but you have enough that you want to push. You can kill enemies that are over extending, put out extra damage on their main killing classes that you wont be able to kill (since they will fall back). The point of this is to not get kills, its to take over an area. Pushing them out is key. Generally teams don't slow push, they only push when they have an advantage. So if you are pushing in, the other team will generally assume you have uber/advantage and will fall back.

Should I slow push when they have uber or have uber advantage?
It all depends on who you have up. If you have your soldier/med/hw/demo/pyro up and you are at an uber disadvantage, feel free to go ahead and push, but make sure you can get out. Uber advantage isn't always a big deal. If you kill off the classes the Medic would uber, he really cant do anything with it. So you can always rush him and force his pop if he's pocketing someone that is weaker. Fortuna Favet Fortibus

What situations do you uber which classes?
Each situation and area of the map will garner a different person to uber, or a different group around the Medic. I've started ubering a lot of different classes in different situations to find out how to get an uber to go in our favor. Here are a couple of classes I uber and when:
Pyro - Uber Pyro when you are pushing through a choke and you know the Medic is right there, generally this is also a time when you both have uber. This will force their pop, and also you will be ubering the one class on the team that can ruin their uber all by himself. Pop yours and intend to pop theirs within the first 2 seconds. Have the rest of your team stay behind and output damage to others on their team, this will force him to multi-uber. But maintain yours on ONLY your pyro. His multi will force their uber to go down faster whereas yours will maintain the full 8-9 seconds. Your earlier uber will then become more even. Proceed as you will at this point.
Scout - Uber Scout in a similar fashion as with Pyro. In order for this to work, it normally needs to be around a corner and surprise the Medic. It's also very very very important to make sure the Pyro on the other team is either down, distracted or somewhere else.
Hwguy - Uber Hwguy only if he is the last resort (and if he is the last resort then that means you dropped half your team or are in a bad place/forced). Hwguy should always be about 5-10 feet behind you in all pushes. He can spin up and spray out damage for everyone else to cleanup. I know ubering the Hwguy has been a long standing part of the metagame of HL, but its time to end that. Hwguy is just too slow to really force an uber to work. There are numerous other classes that can output more damage and are much more mobile.
Demoman - Uber Demoman happens a lot on CTF maps in order to get the gun. Pushes through chokes can also work with demo as long as he is solid with his stickies and can push back the team.
Soldier - Uber Soldier in clutch situations or to save his life if he's making a bomb. You can have your Soldier do a jump into 4 people and your Medic can rush forward with the Pyro/Scout/Demo/Hwguy without ever ubering. The Soldier can force a pop this way, distract and allow our team to get some free kills, or just drop the Medic. This is an opportunity to user your uber as a save. Pop and catch him as he falls, or just save him. Then you can multi around if need be and help him out. Otherwise generally you only want to uber your Soldier when you want him to jump (usually involving ubering him, he jumps, switching to demo, and he jumps, then follow in with hw/pyro).

But hein, you're forgetting that your team and your past team had incredible DM. My team isn't quite ready for these kinds of ubers. What do we do?
These are plays I mentor with some Silver teams as well and they do just fine. If your team KNOWS exactly who is getting the uber, and who isn't going to be flashed they will be fine. All to often I'll be helping out and when I uber in, I'll get a few people saying "FLASH ME". Not only does it disrupt the push, but it forces me to generally turn around and flash someone that isn't even being shot at. This is a bad behavior and hurts the team by selfishness. Know your role in each uber type. Your Medic needs to assess the situation and say "this is a demo uber" and everyone knows what to do, or "I'm ubering in Pyro, support from flank" etc. That kind of simple play calling puts everyone in the place they need to be. Command your team and lead them. I've found that people really just need to be told what to do. Then their skill will take over from there.
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--

Hein said:
For a person that is designated caller, it generally means they are the most experienced and know the metagame the best on the team.

Do's
Hit tab a lot. Its good to know who is up on both teams. This is your second best way to know who has advantage.
Watch the kill feed. This is your best way. If you see your guys just killed 3-4 of their team and they are the meat of the team, thats time to go! Then you hit tab to see if YOU actually have the man power to go.
Slow push like a boss. If you kill 3-4 of their guys, but maybe you dont have your demo/hw, keep that momentum going! Push them out of that next point with your advantage.
Know your enemy. Know who on the other team is playing what. Then in your kill feed you see one of their carry classes is down, you call that out pronto.
Clear comms. If people are arguing, it muddles up mumble. Stabby does this for us a lot when we have a lot going on. Anyone can do it if they notice chatter.

Dont's
Berate. Mistakes happen. Sure you called a push and only one other person responded. Once the push fails, ask what was going on behind. More than likely the rest of your team was stopping some kind of flank (saving your Medic's life). Keep an open mind and as much negativity out of comms as possible. If people really were just standing around, then talk about it after the game or watch the stv and go over how to improve.
Whine/Scream about backstabs/headshots. This is REEEEEEAALLLYYY hard sometimes. Just dont hit your talk button when you yell. Not only does it set everyone's nerves on edge, but it distracts from the match at hand. You can still make comms and calls from your death cam, and you can still hit tab and see who's up/down and call a push without you being there.
Banter. Just talking for the sake of hating silence is bad. This muddies up comms. If a player calls that Sniper is left and you're talking about what happened on the last point, then you miss it and will likely get shot (which will lead to screams and asking why no one said anything). Keep it brief and talk about things once its over/round end.
Troll. Dont troll your teammates in game. Its a downward spiral. Some people will get very mad and it will upset their gameplay. Even if you know you're joking and poking fun at them for a mistake, more than likely they are already upset at themselves for their performance and have already mentally berated themselves (I've learned this bc TMP is very hard on himself and it doesnt help anyone. <3 tmp).
False comm. Dont call something that you arent sure of. If you see ONE crit death symbol, do not automatically call out THEY POPPED KRITZ!!! This generally means that someone got jarate'd. If a kritz is popped, that is your Spy's job to have already told you what they are running. Always ask the Spy that and its a quick change for him to check. Calling "they are wiped, push in" when you killed one person will lead to your team getting destroyed or "they're all lit, push in and finish them" when you scattergun'd 3 people from 10 feet away.
-------------------------------
Those are the simplest do's and dont's that will make huge strides in a team's communication. Very very easy to clean these up with a little bit of focus. Its what separates a lot of the top teams from the bottom just by controlling mumble.

The best way to learn to call......is to call. Some say I have very strong calls, but its only because I've been doing it since around season 4 and really picked it up in season 5. One thing I always try to portray to a team is that a good call that no one follows will always fail, a bad call that everyone follows could turn out to be amazing. In the military soldiers are trained to follow orders without questioning. Once you question things, you hesitate and it can end badly not just for yourself but for everyone. TF2 is not that serious, but its the same thing. If you make a call and only a few push through, its just not going to work in most instances. You can easily break up a push into sections. You can name plays or just call classes where you want them to go. "I'll pop on demo/sold at door so they can jump, hw float behind and pyro stick with me, everyone else go left" This is a short call that takes 2 seconds, wait for people to get in position and then say "GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO" "pushpushpushpush". I've found repetition really helps in this situation and really gets the team going! Or if you name plays just say "ok we're doing Computer Blue, wait for my signal to go" BOOM.
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S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
Why the hell do you guys use Mumble for regular pub games?

1. I'm tired of needing to window the game, start a program, then record and stop a demo.

2. None of the voices record in replays. So the novelty of people swearing when they get killed by crits is completely lost.

3. It causes the in-game volume to fluctuate every time someone talks.

4. It uses unnecessary resources and slows down TF2's already-shitty performance.

5. It makes the server into a creepy cult. Might as well start an IRC room too.

6. The in-game chat works completely fine.

If you want people to join the server, it would also help not needing a third party program to hear anything.
 
R

RumblingRosco

Member
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
Why the hell do you guys use Mumble for regular pub games?

1. I'm tired of needing to window the game, start a program, then record and stop a demo.

2. None of the voices record in replays. So the novelty of people swearing when they get killed by crits is completely lost.

3. It causes the in-game volume to fluctuate every time someone talks.

4. It uses unnecessary resources and slows down TF2's already-shitty performance.

5. It makes the server into a creepy cult. Might as well start an IRC room too.

6. The in-game chat works completely fine.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
Why the hell do you guys use Mumble for regular pub games?

1. I'm tired of needing to window the game, start a program, then record and stop a demo.

2. None of the voices record in replays. So the novelty of people swearing when they get killed by crits is completely lost.

3. It causes the in-game volume to fluctuate every time someone talks.

4. It uses unnecessary resources and slows down TF2's already-shitty performance.

5. It makes the server into a creepy cult. Might as well start an IRC room too.

6. The in-game chat works completely fine.

If you want people to join the server, it would also help not needing a third party program to hear anything.
Click to expand...
I agree with most or all of this, and prefer ingame all-talk over Mumble except when needed for the rare tournament match.

Alaskanbullworm said:
Boy this thread
it is dead
why not click on the Spy's head
and end up here instead
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Aww, the Ms. Pauling ad is so sad. I wanna answer it!
 
L

Liquidsnake1010

Neo Member
Shout out to the Janky Bunch and Foxhound for playing a couple tough rounds of granary. A big thanks to everyone who came out to the scrims. Playoffs start in a couple of weeks, lettuce get ready for that.
 
Z

ZekeThePlumber

Member
I like not having push-to-talk. It makes me kill things more better. Now once I kick this appropriate but excessive taunting habit ery body better watch your butts.
 
F

Forkball

Member
Yeah I don't get why people use Mumble over the already integrated voice chat, for both TF2 and Dota (calling you out Bors). It has been much improved when compared to even a year ago. The Cult of Mumble is strong.
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
I would say it's because you can talk to your teammates even when you're dead without risk of alltalk getting in the way, but I'm pretty sure TF2 has that functionality built-in too, now. The server just has to have tf_teamtalk on and sv_alltalk off.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
Kuro Madoushi said:
You and porkball are so so wrong.

There is clearly less delay and the voice comes out clearer too.

No comp team uses the in game chat unless the other team is really bad.
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No one's saying the mumble codec isn't better (it is). Also, Forkball mentioned DOTA2, which uses the same codec as mumble.

The point is, using Mumble for chat is an extra step that's not necessary and just splits the community, which leads to less people playing on the server for shorter amounts of time. It creates in insular community where outsiders and new players are less likely to be involved, which shrinks the player base over time.

As for competitive teams, let's ask ArtistDude and ClassyPenguin how competitive the jank is, shall we?
 
Z

ZekeThePlumber

Member
Yeef said:
The point is, using Mumble for chat is an extra step that's not necessary and just splits the community, which leads to less people playing on the server for shorter amounts of time. It creates in insular community where outsiders and new players are less likely to be involved, which shrinks the player base over time.
Click to expand...

I disagree. One could argue that Mumble makes the community stronger. I can't see how you can make the argument that Mumble makes for less people playing on the server for shorter periods of time when once we get people going in Mumble, the server pretty much fills right away and 95% of the people on the server are GAFers and are on my friends list. You can't say Mumble creates an insular community when there's very little barrier to entry, if you're willing to ignore the fact that GAF itself is pretty much a gated community, plus there's no reason someone can't join mumble. Mumble doesn't kill tf2, games that aren't tf2 kill tf2. If people are playing past midnight on the server and using mumble, I can't see how you can say it's doing anything bad. Besides, shooting the shit on Mumble after playing is great. We wouldn't be able to ask Assi loaded calculus questions, hear some Spaceboy impressions, or explain the Electoral College to Snake otherwise. Excuse me for not confining my social interaction to limited voice chat within tf2.
 
F

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
Javaman said:
Oh, welcome back Mr. Slacker DOOD. We were wondering where you've been last night.
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Still have construction going on in the house. Still have limited access to my desktop. Might be able to pop on this weekend. We'll see. I have a bunch of TV I have to catch up on. :|

Sajjaja said:
He was playing real games. Like Solitaire. And Bad Rats.
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I've been reduced to playing games on my iPad. Jumping Finn is pretty addictive.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Yeef said:
No one's saying the mumble codec isn't better (it is). Also, Forkball mentioned DOTA2, which uses the same codec as mumble.

The point is, using Mumble for chat is an extra step that's not necessary and just splits the community, which leads to less people playing on the server for shorter amounts of time. It creates in insular community where outsiders and new players are less likely to be involved, which shrinks the player base over time.

As for competitive teams, let's ask ArtistDude and ClassyPenguin how competitive the jank is, shall we?
Click to expand...
For jank, it doesn' matter. For any team match it does matter...especially given how idiotic some players are with spy checks.

Artistdude no longer exists.

Classy is extinct.
 
S

Sajjaja

Member
ZekeThePlumber said:
I disagree. One could argue that Mumble makes the community stronger. I can't see how you can make the argument that Mumble makes for less people playing on the server for shorter periods of time when once we get people going in Mumble, the server pretty much fills right away and 95% of the people on the server are GAFers and are on my friends list. You can't say Mumble creates an insular community when there's very little barrier to entry, if you're willing to ignore the fact that GAF itself is pretty much a gated community, plus there's no reason someone can't join mumble. Mumble doesn't kill tf2, games that aren't tf2 kill tf2. If people are playing past midnight on the server and using mumble, I can't see how you can say it's doing anything bad. Besides, shooting the shit on Mumble after playing is great. We wouldn't be able to ask Assi loaded calculus questions, hear some Spaceboy impressions, or explain the Electoral College to Snake otherwise. Excuse me for not confining my social interaction to limited voice chat within tf2.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure he means newcomers are outcasted. I wasn't a gaffer when I started playing with you all, but it was nice to play with you guys since the server was all talkative. If you had mumble going on and I didn't know about it, I probably wouldn't play as often.
 
A

ArtistDude88

Member
Kuro Madoushi said:
Artistdude no longer exists.
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Just waiting for the right moment for my triumphant return.

aIbi6.png
 
A

AcciDante

Member
NSQuote said:
We're the to-watch Red Steel match of the week!

We're the mystery up-and-coming team, so not much can be said about us as far as predictions go, but we were helpfully told some names to watch out for and players to focus down. This will be our toughest match yet, but I'm confident we can take them on like we always do. FOXHOUND!
Click to expand...

As I mentioned above, if Fox wants to beat Heartz then they'll have to work hard to keep HWG down and Arctic Joe under control. Hz's soldier, Juan, will also need to be focused, otherwise he will be able to constantly pressure AcciDante and East End Hero, Fox's Sniper and Med, and really cripple their offense.
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NO, LEAVE ME ALONE
 
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