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Tech Support GAF Thread: No Case Too Big, No Case Too Small

Tc91

Member
The only thing i could think of is it being a driver problem. I'm assuming you tried installing drivers for it though (if it has any)

Yeah I managed to find them on the Acer website but it didn't resolve the issue, just updated my nvidia drivers too which had no affect.

Could it be my cable?

Edit: After a bit of fiddling around it's now showing under Screen Resolution as: "Display: 1. Display device on: VGA"

How can I get it to just list my monitors name.
 

SHarris78

Member
Got a problem when starting my PC.

Its boots up and gets to desktop as normal, but I only know this as I can hear the sound Windows makes when it loads, my monitor is actually black with a message saying no input detected. I have to keep trying numerous times in order for the monitor to show anything and when it does everything works fine.

I recently bought a new power supply and GTX780 card and have been using my 'new' pc for the last couple of weeks with no problems at all. However, last night it was on for 6 hours straight, including an hour or so at the end of the night playing GTAIV with the ice-enhancer mods on. Upon finishing my game, my system kind of froze and I had to hard reset. The back of the PC felt very hot!

This morning I start having these monitor issues. I've swapped HDMI leads, and know my monitor is fine as eventually, after a few restarts, it comes on. Have I melted my graphics card? Have I blown something on the motherboard?
 

SHarris78

Member
Following on from my above post, I've taken out my 2 sticks of ram and tried them individually in different ram slots on the motherboard which made no difference. I've also swapped out my new graphics card for my old one and again it made no difference. So it must be either the motherboard, psu or something's up with my CPU.

Any ideas?
 

alejob

Member
Yeah I managed to find them on the Acer website but it didn't resolve the issue, just updated my nvidia drivers too which had no affect.

Could it be my cable?

Edit: After a bit of fiddling around it's now showing under Screen Resolution as: "Display: 1. Display device on: VGA"

How can I get it to just list my monitors name.
Try going the device manager and uninstall the monitor. Then find new hardware. You might have to restart your computer. Is it a new monitor?


Something to tray anyway.
 
That is the worst sort of BSOD, the one that gives only vague information without a precise faulty module displayed.

Try the BlueScreenView program I linked to earlier on. It'll be able to dig into the minidump files your PC is producing each and everytime your PC has a BSOD.

I can't seem to get this program to display anything. I'mm not sure why and I can't really find any info to troubleshoot why nothing comes up.

I noticed that when the Blue Screen happens it says at the bottom "initializing disc for data dump" or something, but never says anything like "complete" or "done" so I'm not even sure if my PC is able to create a dump file to scan.
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
Hey people, I've got a problem that occurs sporadically: random power loss and restart.

Every so often my computer (desktop) will just lose power, then restart a second or 2 later. Loads on it aren't especially high when this happens, but it will usually happen while playing a game. I don't have any extra peripherals, just mouse, kb, headphones, and my components are well under my power supply's capacity of 700W. Recently I actually replaced a failed water cooling unit with a normal heat sink, and went from two fans and a pump to one fan with that change, so it should be even further under than it was before. Problem has occurred before and after the switch with similar frequency.

It's not overheating either, I've checked with CoreTemp. This doesn't happen all that often, maybe once every week or two. Thoughts? I think I have a fishy power supply but want a second opinion.
 

Husker86

Member
Setup:
Windows 8
GTX 260
HDMI Monitor (main-running on GTX 260)
DVI monitor (secondary-running on integrated Intel 3000)

I have an issue where when I turn off my monitor (main one, I have a secondary also) and then turn it back on, any tabs I had open in Chrome are black and I basically have to close Chrome and reopen it to fix.

The main monitor triggers a "device connected" type event for my computer (I can hear the sound that Windows makes when you plug in something to a USB port, for example). When this happens, the screen flashes (I assume it's doing some a resolution change).

It seems to be a video driver issue, but I have been through a few updates of GeForce drivers and it still happens. Only seems to affect Chrome. Not really expecting a resolution, maybe just a few "me too"s!
 

Dai101

Banned
Hey people, I've got a problem that occurs sporadically: random power loss and restart.

Every so often my computer (desktop) will just lose power, then restart a second or 2 later. Loads on it aren't especially high when this happens, but it will usually happen while playing a game. I don't have any extra peripherals, just mouse, kb, headphones, and my components are well under my power supply's capacity of 700W. Recently I actually replaced a failed water cooling unit with a normal heat sink, and went from two fans and a pump to one fan with that change, so it should be even further under than it was before. Problem has occurred before and after the switch with similar frequency.

It's not overheating either, I've checked with CoreTemp. This doesn't happen all that often, maybe once every week or two. Thoughts? I think I have a fishy power supply but want a second opinion.

Looks like a PSU issue, but also i'd check the MoBo's capacitors to see if they are in good condition.
 

XenoRaven

Member
Really frustrated right now.

I recently noticed that my NVIDIA control panel was not allowing me to enable SLI. I would set it to enabled and it would automatically disable. I thought maybe the SLI bridge wasn't set correctly so I reset it. Now the SLI options don't even appear. In my device list, it only shows one GPU.

I don't know exactly when this happened because I haven't been using my PC as regularly. But two recent things could have possibly affected this. First, I had recently taken my PC apart as a reference when helping a friend build their own PC. I'm pretty sure the SLI was working after I put it back together but I can't say with 100% certainty. The other is the recent driver update. I tried uninstalling and re-installing the drivers and it's still not seeing my second card. Does anyone have an idea of what's happening and how I can fix it? I'm kind of pissed about it.
 

Kainazzo

Member
Really frustrated right now.

I recently noticed that my NVIDIA control panel was not allowing me to enable SLI. I would set it to enabled and it would automatically disable. I thought maybe the SLI bridge wasn't set correctly so I reset it. Now the SLI options don't even appear. In my device list, it only shows one GPU.

I don't know exactly when this happened because I haven't been using my PC as regularly. But two recent things could have possibly affected this. First, I had recently taken my PC apart as a reference when helping a friend build their own PC. I'm pretty sure the SLI was working after I put it back together but I can't say with 100% certainty. The other is the recent driver update. I tried uninstalling and re-installing the drivers and it's still not seeing my second card. Does anyone have an idea of what's happening and how I can fix it? I'm kind of pissed about it.

I had the same problem when I recently switched out my graphics cards. Turned out that the unrecognized one had a slightly bent PCI backplate, so the pins didn't all sit fully in the slot (even though the fan worked). I ended up just unscrewing the blackplate from the card and let it sit freely. One of the DVI outputs rests on the slot bracket to hold everything up; works well enough!

Even without drivers, Windows should still detect something if it's fully plugged into the PCI slot. If the device manager lists both graphics cards, then they're at least installed properly.
 
Hello TechSupGaf!

One of my friends is having some issues with her PC. She recently re-installed Windows and for whatever reason it refuses to connect to the internet. On the exact same PC with the same hardware she has no problems of the sort when using Ubuntu. From what I've understood she's also re-installed the OS several times to no avail as well as updated network drivers etc. What could we be missing here?
 

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
Hey guys, anyone able to help me figure out why my ethernet port has stopped working?

It was working fine for a while, then it started having problems randomly, and now it's not working at all. I have a Wi-Fi adapter on here so I can get internet access, but I'd rather use LAN.

Sometimes it doesn't show up in the Device Manager at all, but the last time I saw it there, it had a problem, said there wasn't enough resources available or something. I've tried updated the drivers previously, and rolling them back, using a new cord, but nothing's changed.

Windows 7 Ultimate 64
AMD Athlon II X4 635 @ 2.9GHz
4 GB of RAM
 

SolKane

Member
I have a spreadsheet in Excel containing a column of string type data that I need to import to SQL.

I want to do the following:

1) Wrap each column value in tick quotes: 'Example'
2) Add a comma to the end of every column value: 'Example',
3) Export to some kind of text / CSV file

Any help?
 

Dai101

Banned
Hey guys, anyone able to help me figure out why my ethernet port has stopped working?

It was working fine for a while, then it started having problems randomly, and now it's not working at all. I have a Wi-Fi adapter on here so I can get internet access, but I'd rather use LAN.

Sometimes it doesn't show up in the Device Manager at all, but the last time I saw it there, it had a problem, said there wasn't enough resources available or something. I've tried updated the drivers previously, and rolling them back, using a new cord, but nothing's changed.

Plug your ethernet cable, booting from Hiren's Boot CD/DVD in mini XP mode and see if you have connectivity. If don't your card/chip is FUBAR.

You can try also from a live linux distro (Ubuntu) or with any other live OS.
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
So i'm building a secondary RAID 1 to attach to my HTPC via USB 3.0.

I went and got 3 3tb drives. The problem I'm having is Windows will not let me convert the disks to Dynamic disks. From what I read a lot of people have issues with accessing the full drive on any drive bigger than 2tb, this isn't a problem for me as I can format them and get the full 3tb. The only thing i've seen is people say the main drive on a UEFI system (which I have) needs to be formated GPT for you to convert any disk bigger than 2tb.

So before I reformat and rebuild the damn HTPC, is there any other way to create a software RAID 1 of the three drives?
 

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
Plug your ethernet cable, booting from Hiren's Boot CD/DVD in mini XP mode and see if you have connectivity. If don't your card/chip is FUBAR.

You can try also from a live linux distro (Ubuntu) or with any other live OS.

Haven't tried that yet, but it's connected right now. It was having problems again and I went through the troubleshooter in Windows and it seemed to fix it this time. I've done that before though and it didn't work.

If it continues to mess up I'll try your method out, had to google it to find out what it was though.
 

XenoRaven

Member
I had the same problem when I recently switched out my graphics cards. Turned out that the unrecognized one had a slightly bent PCI backplate, so the pins didn't all sit fully in the slot (even though the fan worked). I ended up just unscrewing the blackplate from the card and let it sit freely. One of the DVI outputs rests on the slot bracket to hold everything up; works well enough!

Even without drivers, Windows should still detect something if it's fully plugged into the PCI slot. If the device manager lists both graphics cards, then they're at least installed properly.
I think the card might be defective. It's not a new card. I've had it for 2 years. I'm not sure if that's weird or not. Anyway, I tried the card in 3 different PCI slots. The third time I tried I used only the one card and got some motherboard beeps and no video signal.

TO ALL:

Are there any basic troubleshooting tips other than plugging a card into a different slot that are commonly used to detect problems with a video card? I don't just want to write it off as dead but I'm not sure what I can do to get it working again (if it's even possible).
 
Current build -

Gigabyte ga-z77x-ud3h mobo
MSI Nvidia 660 gtx
Antec 650w psu
Intel I5-3570k
GSkill Ripjaw 4Gx4 DDR3 1600
Samsung 840Pro ssd
WD Cavier Green 500gb hdd
Win7 64bit


Last night while I was watching TV my computer decided it wanted to BSOD with a stop error message pointing to wdfldr.sys. I had just installed an ssd a few days before and was currently using my old 500gig hdd as a secondary storage so I figured that either that was the culprit or Windows had somehow gotten corrupt.

I decided to try to boot to each drive individually and disconnect the other drive to see if I could access either, neither can be booted into and both of them give me the same stop message BSOD.

If I try to repair windows instead of load, I get an IRQL_NOT BSOD on both drives and randomly a BAD_POOL stop message. So I attempt to use my Windows repair disk, BSOD then my original Windows 7 install disk and the same thing with it going to a BSOD again.

At this point I figure I will reset my BIOS back to default which has no effect and I physically reset my CMOS which has no effect. At this point I'm starting to suspect my RAM might be acting up so I run memtest86+ for about 4-5 hours and it detects nothing and just to make sure, I remove all but 1 stick and try it and each slot and do the same for all sticks until I have tested them all individually, nothing helps.

At this point I am sure it is the motherboard acting up, so I pull both drives and go to try them in another computer. I can get into the repair tool on the second computer, but it just always tells me it can't fix whatever problem it thinks it has. I have tried chkdsk which found no errors. While in command prompt I tried to fixmbr which did nothing and I tried to sfc /scannow which just tells me windows protection could not perform the operation.

Finally I said screw it and just completely formatted and re-installed Windows on the ssd, I can boot into it on my second computer but when I put it back in mine I get another BSOD this time with the IRQL_NOT message when trying to install Windows from the disk.

I just don't get it, if its a driver or faulty install then the fresh install should have cleared the issues on the ssd but didn't, if it was a faulty drive it should have not worked with a fresh install on another computer. If it was a ram issue, memtest and moving the ram between dimm slots should have found the problem, if it was a motherboard issue those are some weird BSOD messages to get.

Other things I have tried -
Re-seating the cpu and gpu just to be thorough.
Updated bios to the latest version.

Any ideas you guys have would be great appreciated.
 
I hope this problem isn't too small. I like controlling my monitor colors with the Nvidia control panel. Everything is configured to be "just right" for me, but every time I start up my computer, it resets itself even though the settings are still there. I basically have to go back into its control panel and shift-unshift a setting to get it to set back.

Why won't this setting stay on properly?
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Finally I said screw it and just completely formatted and re-installed Windows on the ssd, I can boot into it on my second computer but when I put it back in mine I get another BSOD this time with the IRQL_NOT message.

So I put the hdd in the second computer and start running a repair and rollback on the hdd, I now get a stop 0x7b BSOD which is pointing to a device driver.

I just don't get it, if its the hdd then the fresh install should have cleared the issues on the ssd but didn't. If it was a ram issue, memtest and moving the ram between dimm slots should have found the problem, if it was a motherboard issue they shouldn't be getting bsod on a completely different computer with a completely different setup.

In all my years of working on computers I have never been this stumped with no idea what to even do next. My only thought is somehow my PSU went bad and took everything with it even though that is highly unlikely.

Any ideas you guys have would be great appreciated.
am I to understand you installed Windows on the SSD in a computer that has different drivers, chipset etc then took it out and put it back into your original computer? If so, this is highly unlikely to work and BSOD would be expected. If you wanted to do this you should have sysprepped with /generalize /oobe, this prepares windows to go onto different types of computers. If not, my mistake and that is a weird problem

Gaf, what laptop specs should I be after when looking for a multimedia laptop?

Don't care about games. Just wanna be able to stream in HD, download, use heavy memory programs. PS ran like shit on my old laptop

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CFHPB1Y/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLEl

Would this be okay?
looks pretty good, I would try to upgrade to an SSD, its going to be the biggest upgrade you can do on your computer and programs like PS will load ridiculously fast.

I hope this problem isn't too small. I like controlling my monitor colors with the Nvidia control panel. Everything is configured to be "just right" for me, but every time I start up my computer, it resets itself even though the settings are still there. I basically have to go back into its control panel and shift-unshift a setting to get it to set back.

Why won't this setting stay on properly?
is there no way to save the profile you have created in the Nvidia control panel?

I do the same thing with a device called eye1 device that profiles your monitor and creates a profile for it(i do photography)

If there is no way to save it in Nvidia, I would look up how to save your current profile and make it the default.



wish someone knew the answer to mine. :(
 
am I to understand you installed Windows on the SSD in a computer that has different drivers, chipset etc then took it out and put it back into your original computer? If so, this is highly unlikely to work and BSOD would be expected. If you wanted to do this you should have sysprepped with /generalize /oobe, this prepares windows to go onto different types of computers. If not, my mistake and that is a weird problem

I could not reinstall Windows under my own machine, so I pulled the drive to see if I could install Windows in a different build, which I was able to. I then removed the drive and placed it back in my machine, when I attempt to reinstall a fresh install of Windows it either hangs or simply just drops to a BSOD.

Right now I put the SSD into my laptop to test it out with a fresh install and just left it there, after about 3 hours it remained stable even after several restarts, so I think the drive itself is fine and leads me back to my mobo being shot. I'll play around with sysrep for the hell of it and see if it makes a difference.

*Edit* Set it up with sysprep, still no go, bsod when trying to use the drive and a bsod when attempting to install Win7. I'm just going to RMA the board tomorrow and see what happens.

*Edit 2* Cleaned up my original post to make more sense.
 
So I spent most of last night and today working on it.

I took a ram stick from a different computer, removed all my sticks and just used the one from the other computer and received the same BSOD errors, so I am certain the ram is fine.

What is weird I can replicate the problem every time. The BSOD happens at the exact moment and I believe it is something to do with the motherboard. If I set the boot order in the bios to UEFI:CDDVD then I get the wdfldr.sys BSOD. If I select P2:TSTcorp CDDVDrive then I get the CONFIG_INITIALIZATION_FAILED BSOD. The BSOD's occur at the exact same place each time. It is always just after the the black screen with the grey progress bar where Windows says it is loading its files. Right after this screen, when the Windows logo appears, the BSOD will occur as soon as the little colored windows start flying in.

I am getting more convinced that this is a mobo problem in some way, I just cant determine whether it is a problem with the way something is set in the bios or if the motherboard itself is simply going crazy. It is still under warranty but I use my computer each day for work and would rather not go through the long wait for an RMA if it can be fixed at home.

Here are the BSOD's for reference:

YQMivrH.jpg

jwwNeOT.jpg
 
I can't seem to get this program to display anything. I'mm not sure why and I can't really find any info to troubleshoot why nothing comes up.

I noticed that when the Blue Screen happens it says at the bottom "initializing disc for data dump" or something, but never says anything like "complete" or "done" so I'm not even sure if my PC is able to create a dump file to scan.

So after I noticed this I tried unplugging my SSD and installing the OS on my Storage Drive. Totally fixed the problem. I have a Crucial M4 SSD, it must be failing now or something :(
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
I could not reinstall Windows under my own machine, so I pulled the drive to see if I could install Windows in a different build, which I was able to. I then removed the drive and placed it back in my machine, when I attempt to reinstall a fresh install of Windows it either hangs or simply just drops to a BSOD.

Right now I put the SSD into my laptop to test it out with a fresh install and just left it there, after about 3 hours it remained stable even after several restarts, so I think the drive itself is fine and leads me back to my mobo being shot. I'll play around with sysrep for the hell of it and see if it makes a difference.

*Edit* Set it up with sysprep, still no go, bsod when trying to use the drive and a bsod when attempting to install Win7. I'm just going to RMA the board tomorrow and see what happens.

*Edit 2* Cleaned up my original post to make more sense.
yea I would RMA the Mobo too.

Probably not the right place, but what's the preferred file type for sending resumes?
I always go RTF, can open in any word processor and shows im smart enough to at least do file save as. lol


oh, i figured out my problem, apparently microsoft in all their infinite wisdom decided to not allow dynamic disks through USB in windows 7 and vista. So, now working on getting it through eSATA. Wish I had known this before I reformatted my drive. Now i gotta re setup XBMC.
 

LakeEarth

Member
Crazy Dropbox problem. My local dropbox folder just kept growing to 120 gigs for no reason today (I have ~2gigs of actual files). I deleted my files, which brought it down to 118gigs. I have no idea why this is happening or what was taking up all that space, but I disabled dropbox and was able to delete the folder which freed up the space.

The hell? Virus?
 
There seems to be an input lag whenever I try to type anything on my laptop. What should I do? Physical memory is 66% used up.

Does this happen with all programs?

What about basic Notepad?

You can try rebooting your laptop into safe mode and seeing whether the issue persists:-

1. Reboot your laptop

2. Hit the F8 button repeatedly after your BIOS screen disappears

3. Choose the Safe Mode option

4. Try and reproduce the issue again

The reason we did the above was to exclude all your other background applications as potential culprits for the issue.

If it still happens in Safe Mode, the root cause of the issue is much more severe, and it could be a hardware problem.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
A long time ago I was recommended an uninstaller program here at GAF which I've used to run bulk uninstalls of bloatware from PCs. But I can't remember the name of this program. Anyone got any idea of what program it might be that I'm thinking of?
 
So my User Account Control setting in Windows 7 seems to keep spontaneously changing itself to off. I prefer to keep it on for security (even if there are ways around it), but I find it a little unnerving that I'll go in and set it back to on, then maybe a week later I'll suddenly realize I haven't seen the prompt in awhile and sure enough, it's magically off again. What could be causing this? Could it be a sign of malware? MSE and Malwarebytes don't find anything, and I don't see any other signs like unfamiliar processes running.
 
A long time ago I was recommended an uninstaller program here at GAF which I've used to run bulk uninstalls of bloatware from PCs. But I can't remember the name of this program. Anyone got any idea of what program it might be that I'm thinking of?

PC Decrapifier also does the job, and it's been around for quite a while.
 

Batigol

Banned
This might sound incredibly stupid, but is it possible to download so much that you have to reset your modem?

Like if I'm downloading at 4.5mbs for a while eventually my internet goes out and I have to reconnect or reset the modem. I'll get a notification in the bottom right corner asking telling me I've lost connection. It's only when I download though

I guess this is the price to pay for paying for HD porn
 

Jzero

Member
This might sound incredibly stupid, but is it possible to download so much that you have to reset your modem?

Like if I'm downloading at 4.5mbs for a while eventually my internet goes out and I have to reconnect or reset the modem. I'll get a notification in the bottom right corner asking telling me I've lost connection. It's only when I download though

I guess this is the price to pay for paying for HD porn

Not unless you have a download cap with your company (even then it shouldn't go out they would just charge you a fee). Other than that it shouldn't go out unless your ISP is throttling your connection.
 
is there no way to save the profile you have created in the Nvidia control panel?
I do the same thing with a device called eye1 device that profiles your monitor and creates a profile for it(i do photography)
If there is no way to save it in Nvidia, I would look up how to save your current profile and make it the default.

Nvidia is supposed to save it, as my settings are still there after booting, but it doesn't reflect the accurate changes. I have to slightly alter it for all the changes to take affect (which usually means a big difference in color). But somehow saving it as default sounds like a solution if it's possible.
 
So my PC booted with a SMART hardrive warning that failure could be imminent... upon logging in Windows 7 gives me a hint to start backing shit up. I don't want to lose my Windows install with all my programs and Steam games and saves, etc.

Is there any way to back up my install, programs, files and all that in one go? I've got a big enough external HDD to fit my DATA twice over but I'm not sure on the easiest method to use where I won't have to re-install everything.

Extra Info: This is on a gaming laptop on the default Windows 7 install it came with, I'll have to buy a new windows 7 install which is fine by me, but is there any backup software that will successfully backup all my files, programs and gamesaves and have it work fine under a different windows key?
 

Dai101

Banned
So my PC booted with a SMART hardrive warning that failure could be imminent... upon logging in Windows 7 gives me a hint to start backing shit up. I don't want to lose my Windows install with all my programs and Steam games and saves, etc.

Is there any way to back up my install, programs, files and all that in one go? I've got a big enough external HDD to fit my DATA twice over but I'm not sure on the easiest method to use where I won't have to re-install everything.

Extra Info: This is on a gaming laptop on the default Windows 7 install it came with, I'll have to buy a new windows 7 install which is fine by me, but is there any backup software that will successfully backup all my files, programs and gamesaves and have it work fine under a different windows key?

What brand is your external HDD? And yes, you can back up anything ;)
 

kehs

Banned
So my PC booted with a SMART hardrive warning that failure could be imminent... upon logging in Windows 7 gives me a hint to start backing shit up. I don't want to lose my Windows install with all my programs and Steam games and saves, etc.

Is there any way to back up my install, programs, files and all that in one go? I've got a big enough external HDD to fit my DATA twice over but I'm not sure on the easiest method to use where I won't have to re-install everything.

Extra Info: This is on a gaming laptop on the default Windows 7 install it came with, I'll have to buy a new windows 7 install which is fine by me, but is there any backup software that will successfully backup all my files, programs and gamesaves and have it work fine under a different windows key?

I've never used it, so I don't know how good it is but W7 has something built in called "Windows Easy Transfer" that supposedly transfers applications/settings/etc.

You won't have to buy another windows license if you have the key it came with (should be somewhere in your manuals/bottom of laptop).
 
I am using an old Mac Keyboard on my Windows 7 PC.

This one here exactly.


I used this Key Tweak software to easily swap the "Command ⌘" key with the Control Key on the corner of the keyboard to make it Windows keyboard friendly. But what I cannot do is figure out how to make any of the (Function) F14, F15 and F16 keys to work as a "Print Screen" key.

I take screen shots lot for whatever reasons, but now I cannot do it with my physical keyboard, can only do it by using the (soft) windows on screen keyboard.

Which is obviously far less practical than hitting "Ctrl + Prt Scn"

Can anyone out there tell me how to make "Ctrl + Prt Scn" work on Windows (7) for this keyboard? Much appreciate it.

(Yes. I know, just go out and buy a cheap windows keyboard. etc. etc. but for now I am stuck with this.)
 
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