Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
So it's a bit of both?
The whole point of offensive humor is that, well, it's offensive.
I have no issue with that. Neither do many others or all races and genders.
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'Ted 2' dogged by claims of racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia
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So it's a bit of both?
The whole point of offensive humor is that, well, it's offensive.
I have no issue with that. Neither do many others or all races and genders.
A Link to the Past
Banned
And the whole point of the criticism is to be mindful. People who do offensive humour don't simply get a free pass. In that episode, what we saw, as Kinsei pointed out, was a trans woman having sex with a cis man and not telling him (a common negative stereotype of trans women), which was then followed by Brian throwing up profusely. The fact that Brian still called her 'her' and that they made a point of differentiating homosexuality and being trans doesn't change the fact that the episode was full of offensive things about one of the most oppressed groups in the US. If Seth wants to take the route of "everyone's a target", then he needs to accept that he's putting a target on a group that's constantly under attack already.
It's not really that interesting. A lot of cis people on the internet tend to cite offensive things as trans friendly in my experience.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I dunno though, this episode seems particularly blatant - like, Seth actively trying to push transphobic jokes so hard that it's impossible to ignore them, and somehow they do it anyway. I've never personally seen anything as offensive as the FG episode to trans people pushed as strongly as it, though I don't doubt your own experiences with it.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Seth having shallow jokes that just amount to pointing and puking at things? Good thing more people are getting on his ass for his "jokes". Dude needs to acknowledge his failings as a comic.
RustedPieces
Banned
Truth, but it's hard for him to acknowledge his failings, especially with the millions and millions of dollars clouding his judgement.
Wait..
SolidusDave
Member
I'm particularly baffled at the general tone in this thread because we just recently had a similar discussion in this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1062029
Which went the opposite direction but I guess Louis is just more popular around here and that's what it comes down to...
Not that this discussion is new or anything...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwMukKqx-Os
If you can't grasp the concept of comedy, maybe at least it makes you feel better that MacFarlane received Harvard's Humanist award a couple of years ago for his support of gay rights and other stuff?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
But they're professional movie critics, it's literally their job to make their opinion on something like Ted 2 known.
If people think they're being over-reactionary (and while I doubt at this point I'll like Ted 2, some of these reviews do seem to be reaching a bit) then they should seek a reviewer they feel represents their tastes in film better rather than cry censorship.
Considering how Brian is far more often painted as a romantic thinking man (aka a really unsubtle soapbox for Seth's political views) and not as often annoying liberal whiner, having him be the one who accidentally sleeps with Quagmire's father and proceed to throw up everywhere in disgust and go on about it completely paints the wrong image. I doubt Seth's as involved with 'new' FG's writing as he wants fans to think, but if he really is more hands-on then its amazing how incompetent he is when he's trying to argue in favor of a hot-button social issue.
American Dad recently had an episode about Stan getting an involuntary sex-change that managed to have far more risque jokes about the matter without getting even nearly as unpleasant as FG's attempt at talking about the issue was.
No. Listening to talentless hacks criticize people with talent is annoying. Y'all ain't fucking funny, so why should anyone take your critiques seriously?
I don't even like the movie franchise, but I think it's the height of arrogance to denounce something none of y'all could ever dream of creating. Like spitting on a painting. Yeah, you may not like it, but calling Seth a hack and being so derisive? If you can't create something that good yourself, you got no right to criticized the effort. Then again, I come from a time when effort was recognized. Once upon a time you needed expertise to become a critic. Nowadays you just need a web browser and moxy. PEACE.
Effort doesn't mean shit if the result is terrible. I have every right to criticize someone calling me a man.
wow i need a degree in journalism to call something shitty now i guess
excelsiorlef
Member
Yes criticizing is exactly like physically defacing art.
Roger Ebert was not a great screenwriter and never made a movie in his life, no we are not all Roger Ebert but your point is a classic act of argumentative stupidity: If you can't make something you can't criticize it, well Roger Ebert couldn't make a good movie soooo....
No, it's comedy. You just didn't get the joke. When did we give license to be a negative toolbox evertime we don't like something? It's for fucking laughs, not trying to cure cancer. You laugh or you don't. Again, on the road to funny, there are countless stops at offensive. You must not know many comedians. You roll with the punches. Every bad joke isn't a referendum on a person's comedic value. But hey, don't let that get in the way of your grandstand. PEACE.
not_so_special
Banned
hey hey talentless?these people made their own tumblrs,blogs and twitter accounts,thats require a lot of work man...respect
Movie critics pad their resumes with pretention and rampant jackholery. Why would anyone hold one as an example? PEACE.
Comedy isn't carte blanche to be a prick. There's no hiding behind the guise of comedy after slinging out an insult.
ZackieChan
Member
Seth MacFarlane should rewrite the Bible. Ya know, update it for the 21st century. Curious what he thinks of the shapeliness of the women of the Philippines and how it relates to the pre-Creation world.
You keeping saying "peace" yet you're still here.
not_so_special
Banned
you are the one who decides who can stay on threads now? good to know
excelsiorlef
Member
Hey you've never been me, you can't criticize what I said, since you've never been me, you shouldn't have responded to me.
My words are art, you just spat on me. PEACE
It's not an insult. Maybe be more open minded when viewing a movie in the comedy genre. You must just hate the hell out of Tosh. Or maybe his offensive brand of humor appeals to your sensibilities more.
Comedy is hard, man. Y'all got zero appreciation for what it requires. It's largely trial and error. And if you're going for mass appeal, it's super hard. Don't like the movie. It's totally cool. But Seth is getting unfair derision in this thread from people who frankly couldn't do what he does. You don't have to like what someone does to appreciate the effort. I don't think the effort is appreciate, and by people with zero ability demonstrated. I understand no one likes being called out on bullshit, but I guess I'm just too trill. PEACE.
Was that intentional?
I have no clue who Tosh is. The derision towards Seth is totally warranted.
ftfy
i mean i know you hate trans folk and you hate it when they take offense for something
but calling her a man? lol u aint shit
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Vast majority of this forum couldn't make a big budget AAA game in their wildest dreams, but it's still not particularly alarming that a lot of people still rip games a new one without having to preface every post with how they know a lot of work went into even the biggest stinker.
This idea that some things are above critique because a lot of work and passion went into it is a fallacy. I admire the amount of shit Seth had to trudge through to get where he is now when he kept getting dicked around by Fox in the late 90's and early 2000's, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to call most of his work crap. Likewise for my right to call it racist/homophobic/transphobic/sexist as it is for someone else to argue it's the opposite, though that's a point I feel less strongly on compared to others in this thread (but I still think critiquing the social issues behind a piece of work falls under fair criticsm).
Understanding a joke isn't hard. Dissecting what makes it funny isn't hard either. A comedian can make a joke without making me the butt of it.
Any creative individual worth his salt is able to defend his or her work from detractors. Someone asks an artist "why did you put that there?" They should be able to defend it on the spot with a reason. They might have a reason for it or they might come up with one on the spot but they should never just say "I thought it looked good". I'm not just pulling this out of nowhere, take an art class and they would tell you the same.
If you think his work shouldn't be criticized then you should tell us the merits of his work and why we're wrong to criticize him. Defend the work on its merits and not just the "it's just a joke!" cop out. Tell us why you think his work is above our criticisms. Contribute to the discussion with meaningful thoughts and ideas.
Try to convince us we're not worthy to criticize his work. Do it in his stead to simply prove your ideas about us not having the credentials.
I hate trans folk, so I leave for Bangkok in 8 days. I love how some feminists and those in the GLBT community have developed this bigoted mythos of me. Of course I hate trans people. Why wouldn't I? My hoof prints sign every hate-filled message on here....
Or maybe stop being militant to the point of irrational. Don't take offense at everything and understand that deriding every slight is exclusive, and not inclusive. If you really wanted people to understand you, you'd try understanding them first. Search my post history and try to cobble together your conspiracy in some coherent form. Otherwise just know I speak my mind without presupposition.
Anyway, I hate people who demand spoiler tags. I'm not a bigot, I just think different than you. Disagreement is shocking to the system, but you'll survive... I promise. PEACE.
Mainstream comedy is hard. You can't be edgy without isolating/distancing those in the margins. I mean, it's not rocket science. But Seth MacFarlane is a super talented guy, and his team of writers are good. Love them or hate them, is credit so difficult to give, or have we become this cynical?
That's a rhetorical question. This is really a pointless debate, but I can't keep quiet all the time. PEACE.
Okay now this is just insane
Oh god here comes the "you can't criticise something unless you've created something of equal value argumentation. Bullshit. Maybe if every movie existed in a vacuum (probably not even then, millions of kids whose first console was an NES noticed how stellar SMB was even in context of being their first game), but fortunately we have something called "frame of reference) which makes criticising things a lot easier.
I don't even have a horse in this race (never seen Ted or Ted 2), but that kind of argumentation pisses me off.
I don't even have a horse in this race (never seen Ted or Ted 2), but that kind of argumentation pisses me off.
Man, some trans folk are super defensive. How am I to know who is male or female on here, or even which gender anyone identifies with? Better yet, why should I care? I assume I'm replying to a male 90% of the time. Take no offense, I just give no shits who you are, just what you have to say. If it makes you feel any better, I've disagreed with men and women alike, and offended both genders. Life's funny like that. PEACE.
You quoted a post where I said I was a woman. Let's assume for a second you aren't intentionally being a bigot, why would anyone bother to respond to you after this point since you've shown you clearly don't read what you're quoting?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Well at least that line of argument means Matt Stone and Trey Parker's breaking down of why Family Guy's writing is complete shit is allowed.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Lazy
Shallow
Unfunny
Racially insensitive?
Sure
Racist? Nah
Meh
Shallow
Unfunny
Racially insensitive?
Sure
Racist? Nah
Meh
soulassssns
Banned
Welcome to comedy folks. Some of it WILL offend you.
Who cares if you're a woman? Why does that matter to what you said?
See? You identifying so strongly with your gender doesn't mean everyone else in this world does. Doesn't that strike you as a you problem? Why would I even consider such an insignificant detail? Did I lose the general meaning of your post by ignoring that detail?
A problem many are afraid to point out about the trans community on this particular forum is that some of you are so caught up on your own personal shit, that you assume everyone else is as fixated on it as you. I'm not. I've never cared about the gender of a poster here. Point out one reason why I should care, and maybe I will. Until then, don't push your insecurities off on me. PEACE.
Edit: Sorry, I don't bite my tongue. I'm speaking the truth.
It's like some people expect comedy to be nickelodeon style comedy or something. Comedy has been and always will be offensive sometimes.
I'm pretty sure the area where he said man wasn't the traditional noun usage of the word, but rather.
interjection
25.
Slang. an expression of surprise, enthusiasm, dismay, or other strong feeling:
Man, what a ball game!
At least from how I read it and the amount of slang he's using in his writing, it seems to be more of an interjection and the "man" wasn't directly aimed at you. Then again from how he replied, I don't exactly sure now
He actually does it again right here
Failings? No, the guy's record proves that isn't the case. You don't find him funny? Fine, but your opinion isn't representative of his success, failure, or ability.
I can't stand Chris Rock, I think he's awful at stand up, but he's obviously a good comedian even if I don't find him funny.
No one said you should care, but seeing a trans person state their gender and then continue to use the opposite is an asshole thing to do. When we're fighting so hard to get the world to see us as we really are and to stop the hate, violence, discrimination, etc it's the least you can do to to respect their gender.
Sure go on telling yourself that you;re not transphobic, whatever helps you sleep at night bub.
A Link to the Past
Banned
This is the most reductive thing I've ever seen. I never can read posts like these and not take it to mean that the poster - likely unintentionally - dismissed comedy. "Jokes aren't bad, you just don't get them!" So I guess that means that all the effort Carlin put into his humour was wasted because he could have literally just took a nap on stage and it apparently would be good comedy, because what do you know?
No real comedy fan thinks that comedy is beyond public criticism.
I didn't call you a man.
I don't think your gender means shit to this thread.
(my favorite)
If you could pinpoint one city in the entire world that was most sympathetic to the trans lifestyle, where transgendered people live our their lives freely in society, where would you pick?
I'm gonna guess Bangkok is at least in the Top3, right? Now why would the champion of the transphobic want to move there for the rest of his life? LOL.
Maybe I'm not transphibic. Maybe that's just the lame label you slap on people you disagree with. I don't know, maybe reading about my first night in Bangkok won't jive so well with the negative image you've developed of me. I know most people wilt when faced with accusations of bigotry, but I have enough sense to defend my stance, disagreeable though it may be. PEACE.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Minnesota is home to one of the safest LGBT cities in the US (it's not saying much, but it's at least up there). I do not expect that Minneapolis however does not have its fair share of bigots.
Also maybe you don't understand why you're transphobic and instead of thinking about why someone would call you that, you instead play the equivalent (albeit the weird one) of the "my best friend is black" card.
peace
You said "comedy is hard, man." in direct response to me.
What does you moving to Bangkok have to do with anything? The US just legalized same sex marriage but I can assure you that there is still a large amount of homophobes living there.
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