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TEKKEN 7 |OT| How I killed your mother
- Thread starter miku
- Start date
HazySaiyan
Banned
Yo what the fuck is this Special Chapter bullshit? Taking the fucking piss
Yeah, XL shirts and baggy pants. Even the leather pants are big. XD
Guess Injustice 2 will satiate my
lucebuce12
Member
Katarina has a lot of easy options if you don't want to learn combos but also some higher damaging ones if you do.
For example, take her u/f 4.
You can just do u/f4 and just keep spamming 4 and you're guaranteed a combo.
OR you can do u/f 4-4, d2->harrier->1, 4-4-4->harrier->4. This combo does more damage, isn't THAT hard to pull off and it gives you more wall carry and slightly better oki.
For example, take her u/f 4.
You can just do u/f4 and just keep spamming 4 and you're guaranteed a combo.
OR you can do u/f 4-4, d2->harrier->1, 4-4-4->harrier->4. This combo does more damage, isn't THAT hard to pull off and it gives you more wall carry and slightly better oki.
Chronospherics
Member
This games onboarding is pretty terrible. You have to sit through two meaningless EULA's, and the game provides absolutely no tutoralling, whatsoever.
Where at a time where in order to enhance accessibility fighting games need to actually teach players how to play. You cannot expect people who have been out of the loop for 15 years to be able to pick up this game, and learn a character, especially as the rest of the industry has moved in the opposite direction (increasing accessibility, helping the player to learn the game).
An example, every character has 100+ moves, yet most players will only use a small fraction of these. Nothing in the move list meaningfully indicates the purpose or value of each move, forcing players to test 100+ moves, each of which you need to use in various circumstances to gain an understanding of their use (on block, on hit, on counter hit, on juggle).
So just understanding what a single character can do, requires players spend countless hours going through the movelist, before they can even begin to play the game. Players can't meaningfully understand how a character plays until they go through this tedious process, which makes finding a character they like especially difficult.
Of course, forums and other external resources mediate some of these issues, but it's a lazy and archaic reliance on the games community that contributes to the games inaccessibility. People picking this game up on a whim are not going to understand the game, and neither are they going to know that they can find combos on Tekkenzaibatsu and the like.
The information architecture of this game is straight up, an absolute mess, and the absence of tutorials means that Tekken 7, while enjoyable, is purely for the fans of the series, and persistent fighting game enthusiasts.
To clarify though, I'm not saying this game is awful, the underling mechanics seem great, it's just buried under what is a huge barrier for new players. It's an issue not just with Tekken (though Tekken is probably the worst example) but with fighting games as a whole, and their general inaccessibility is likely to significantly contribute to the decay of the genre.
Where at a time where in order to enhance accessibility fighting games need to actually teach players how to play. You cannot expect people who have been out of the loop for 15 years to be able to pick up this game, and learn a character, especially as the rest of the industry has moved in the opposite direction (increasing accessibility, helping the player to learn the game).
An example, every character has 100+ moves, yet most players will only use a small fraction of these. Nothing in the move list meaningfully indicates the purpose or value of each move, forcing players to test 100+ moves, each of which you need to use in various circumstances to gain an understanding of their use (on block, on hit, on counter hit, on juggle).
So just understanding what a single character can do, requires players spend countless hours going through the movelist, before they can even begin to play the game. Players can't meaningfully understand how a character plays until they go through this tedious process, which makes finding a character they like especially difficult.
Of course, forums and other external resources mediate some of these issues, but it's a lazy and archaic reliance on the games community that contributes to the games inaccessibility. People picking this game up on a whim are not going to understand the game, and neither are they going to know that they can find combos on Tekkenzaibatsu and the like.
The information architecture of this game is straight up, an absolute mess, and the absence of tutorials means that Tekken 7, while enjoyable, is purely for the fans of the series, and persistent fighting game enthusiasts.
To clarify though, I'm not saying this game is awful, the underling mechanics seem great, it's just buried under what is a huge barrier for new players. It's an issue not just with Tekken (though Tekken is probably the worst example) but with fighting games as a whole, and their general inaccessibility is likely to significantly contribute to the decay of the genre.
TheSpoiler
Member
To be fair, even if end up using the best moves at the end of the day, using the other ones doesn't mean you'll be at a huge disadvantage.
Movement is far more important but the game really doesn't indicate that.
Movement is far more important but the game really doesn't indicate that.
This is a useful resource, there's a few mistakes (some frame data and notations), but it's a pretty good starting off point.
And yes, the movelists are huge and intimidating and there's not really any tools in game indicating what you should and shouldn't use. I don't think movelists should be cut down, but there should be some kind of indication of the good stuff. Longer strings and some of the more out there stuff really aren't important to most.
lucebuce12
Member
The game should DEFINITELY have more resources for newbies to learn at least the basics of the game. Kinda sad when even SFV explains more stuff in-game as compared to Tekken 7.
TheSpoiler
Member
Every game is in beta.
lucebuce12
Member
Maybe the game should've been delayed to mid-2017.
I think this is more of a design philosophy thing from Harada than an incomplete addition. He's very coy about things other than the base mechanics. He has no interest in just adding frame data to movelists like NRS. Plus he probably thought "well Combot lab didn't work, guess it's pointless". Tekken's always been an information overload.
Not saying he's right of course, but I do think Tekken is a hard game to make a good tutorial for (especially looking through what's on YouTube...), but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try.
Marvel
could never
Ooooh yeah, that was great too.
Yeah, this special chapter especially, I thought it was bad on Standard, but this just looks daft.
I wanted to stay for that last fight, but felt that focusing so much on the lasers isn't the way to go with the crazy regen.
Then I googled a bit and found a video of someone beating him without any lasers (okay, 1 missed). I've had my fill.
I'm not a backseat gamer but the constant "this is the only way you can do it" (lasers) was a bit much.
MrCookiepants
Member
Well, we didn't need tutorials back in the PS1 days.
Online is the real problem. We never knew we were bad back then. Now we press the first option in the main menu and we learn that the hard way.
But people should still be able to pick up the game and have fun mashing and doing 1 button supers with their friends. If a real interest sparks from that experience, then the discovery process will happen for them like it did for us.
If you're playing your first Tekken ever, an in game tutorial is not going to stop you from losing a thousand times before you win. It's the nature of the genre.
Yea, as a new player trying to learn a character (I picked Lars) is proving...very difficult, to say the least. I feel completely out of my depth.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Ok, I didn't get to check around in the moveslist much, but did they get rid of Yoshi's b+1+2? I know that's his rage art notation now, so I'm wondering if they changed the notation or completely removed it. I'll have to dig into the moveslist for practice anyway so I'll find out sooner or later. It has burned me on a few occasions though. Either not being there when I try using it, or borking a rage art when I didn't intend to...
^
The characters have a shit tonne of moves. Prepare to spend time in the practice mode
There are guides that recommend moves for each character though. eg https://drunkardshade.com/2017/05/27/tekken-7-top-15-moves-for-all-characters/
I'm just glad I can remember most of yoshi's moves. Still need to brush up, especially with his combos and then get used to seeing the other characters' moves.
Thanks for this, helps a ton.
It helps you feel like you're not just drowning in a sea of information though.
Which sometimes can be more annoying. Like losing is fine, but not really understanding why you're losing can be quite disheartening.
Some people are going to immediately spark and love the game. Others will not. Making the barrier to entry as high as it is does not help the people who need a little push before they're willing to invest hundreds of hours to get decent. I came up in the arcade, spending thousands to discover. But it doesn't need to be that way anymore. Times have changed and it's more than just online. If people don't click, they can easily switch to another game. Attention spans are short. The days of people devoting themselves to one game because it's all they own isn't a thing anymore.
There's Gaffers on here who are confused about throw breaking, think that strings are natural combos and a bunch of other erroneous assumptions. They shouldn't need us to explain that to them. I'm not saying remove Tekken's little idiosyncrasies, but giving people information and a little help isn't harmful.
TheSpoiler
Member
Yeah, it's difficult, but they should definitely make an effort to at least guide people in the right direction.
Bag on SFV all you want, at least the demonstrations set you on a decent path.
Back in the day, we had more hours to devote, and it's not like were training smart. Most of us got by through days of mashing. But people grow up, have responsiblities, etc. The onus is on the developer to shift with the growing trends, and one of those is informing players. Tutorials aren't just good for teaching people how to play the game, they are good at being the gateway to going on line. A person is much more likely to hop online and find more when they have a decent basis to jump off from. Starting from nothing causes a lot of frustration.
A good tutorial isn't going to stop you from losing, but it will teach you why you lost, insofar that movement is such an important thing that players should at least be informed about focusing on that over other elements.
Just looking at it, backing off forcing him to whiff and then punish seems like a good strategy.
But he keeps recovering health at an insane rate
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Folks complaining about the complexity of Tekken...
...never play Virtua Fighter.
...never play Virtua Fighter.
freeofgreed
Member
Nope it's still fucked up. It's really getting on my nerves, how bad the dropped the ball on this. Launch day no less. And it doesn't seem like this issue is getting any attention at all :/
E_Darkness
Member
Well there probably won't be a new one so they'll never have to.
I don't think anyone is complaining about the complexity of Tekken.
It's the accessibility. The game doesn't need to be this obtuse.
VF had way better tutorial options in the past than this game.
sixteen-bit
Member
PS4 online still crap, i barely got into one game last night and it was so laggy, the game was freezing mid fight the resuming, and it was supposed to be 5 bars sigh. This game online on PS4 makes SFV looks like a godsend.
I played a few games on PS4 and it felt a lot worse than the pc version. I've only been doing lobbies with friends.
Played against a Steve in ranked who literally used his fast one two punch for nearly the whole game. Spamming the same moves non-stop. Edged him out in the first two rounds and decided to teach him a lesson in the third by spamming Kazyua's spinning low kick. Perfected him and he unsurprisingly didn't want a rematch.
Joke is he was a 5th Kyu, which although isn't that high, means his spam technique has earned him a few wins. Sad really.
Joke is he was a 5th Kyu, which although isn't that high, means his spam technique has earned him a few wins. Sad really.
Big thanks! This explains how i'm getting messed up by my old SF habits. Will try to reset.
Ein Bear
Member
I've not played Tekken since the PS1 days, and thought running through the story mode would be a good way of learning the basics.
Holy fucking shit is this thing insanely hard. It just took me an hour and a half to beat chapter 8, the thing was absolutely maddening. The annoying part is that you can't even really drop the difficulty either, as Easy mode is full of auto-combos that keep you from learning the game properly :/
Holy fucking shit is this thing insanely hard. It just took me an hour and a half to beat chapter 8, the thing was absolutely maddening. The annoying part is that you can't even really drop the difficulty either, as Easy mode is full of auto-combos that keep you from learning the game properly :/
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Haven't connected to an online match yet. Harada please, haha.
Noisepurge
Member
Man this storymode is bullshit. Why does it have to "break" the game's own rules with giving enemies armor or infinite supers and teleport you right next to them so it always hits...
Haven't seen this anywhere in here, so I thought I'd post it
Tekken 7 - Launch Trailer
Tekken 7 - Launch Trailer
New trailer, new thread?
lucebuce12
Member
Game's out and we have an OT. Seems kinda redundant.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
lol
...
VF's skill ceiling was...celestial.
I've never met a person URL who could do Akira's entire moveset.
BACK ON TOPIC:
I mentioned that I have the printout of 1up.com's tip 10 movelist and sample combos for each character. This weekend, I will bore my wife to death by seeing what followup and mixups still work in Tekken 7.
For example, in Tekken 6 with Asuka WS1+2 on hit guarantees a juggle with 1+4.
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