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Tekken |OT2| Pulse of the Regionally Discriminated Knuckleheads
- Thread starter AAK
- Start date
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GrayFoxPL
Member
Haha, that scream must be in Tekken 7 somewhere.
Stay tuned!!Being a Tekken fan these days is like
FormallyFamicom
Member
Namco cross-promoting Tekken in a way only they can:
From the Idolmaster music mobile game.
From the Idolmaster music mobile game.
Cosmic Forge
Member
Edit - oh yeah. I forgot.
What is Katarinas fighting style? It reminds me so much of Sarah from VF. Minus the flamingo.
Cosmic Forge
Member
I dunno. I think LC is the most accurate depiction of Cat-Fu I've ever seen.
In this version:
Cat-Fu
Exorcist-Fu
Hulk-Fu
Juggs-Fu
Crybaby-Fu
Tiger Mom Fu
OPEC-Fu
No seriously, they nailed all of those totally real life fighting styles, IMO.
.
.
.
.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Can't do that really and expect to get fun or well balanced characters. Incase you didn't know half the reason the characters in 3rd Strike that are low tier suck is because they just wanted to give them unique beautiful animations but didn't think about utility. Sure they could make an actual traditional Savate fighter or a BJJ fighter, or a Krav Maga practitioner but they would be a waste for the reasons stated above.
NinthPixel
Member
It won't work until the Tekken Team decides to tone down launchers. The power curve of Tekken used to be stacked against EWGF in which it's difficulty allowed breathing room for interesting character concepts. Then came the hopkick and the game really is starting to crumble under it's Power Creep.
If I just lost you, here is a great video explaining the concept.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3b3hDvRjJA
That said, given the right adjustments the sky is the limit for what could be done in a 3d fighter like Tekken. I dream of a proper Judo character who would be full of just frame reversals and tosses, all being relatively low damage but full of annoyance as people struggle to get hits in. Too bad I will just have to dream, because the Tekken Team just loves juggles too much.
Honestly, its not the regular hopkick necessarily, since it was still avoidable and even jabbable (it still "obeying the rules"). The problem started in T6 when guys like bob and lars started to exist, with tools that can be described as the powercreep, and blatantly breaking the design rules. A uf3 that crushes everything and is so inconsistent to punish? A uf4 that crushes alot of things and safe? Not to mention, high damage juggles?
Now because of that, every character needs to have a super op move that's easy to do and get you out of jail free, in order to be competitive. Suddenly, backsways that crushes everything became the norm, new char hopkicks crushes even highs, and old characters who are fun to play either succumb to being braindead to play because they added those type of moves, or phased out altogether if they dont have that move. Not to mention the system became unnecessarily convoluted instead of intuitive since we need to differentiate between crushing and evading. Its much worse now with T7 with them making the blatant move to make everyone as cheap as they could, especially the new chars.
That is the problem with tekken right now and I hate this direction. I honestly dont expect the game to do well, even PR troubles aside. It doesn't solve the root problems the game has, and I expect people to complain about the game the same way they complain about tag2.
Backsway attacks that crush everything, weird hopkick/orbitals that are hard to punish..DEATH™;206421439 said:
Sounds like Namco is having a hard time actually giving new characters new movesets so they end up having similar lego pieces just to give everyone similar outlandish advantages.
This shit is in the game and we're not gonna actually discuss or address these issues, we're just gonna keep putting this shit in the game you guys need to either deal with it, figure the shit out, get REKT or not play the game, is what Namco is probably thinking
EDIT: So, you want to make a new Tekken character, here's a list of things to choose from.
Some kind of hopkick, some kind of orbital, about 2 or 3 backsway moves to get the player out of tough situations, or just normal situations that the player is too lazy to deal with. 1, 2, 3 and kaboom, new character made.
SquirrelSoup
Member
I'd rather every character have strong moves than just a few of them.
I could, but I honestly don't want to.
They should fit the bullshit characters to match the other characters, not the other way around :/
ZeroTheShadow
Member
That's the same for every fighting game. "Some kinda of SRK, a Fireball, a command throw, a Rekka, and a flying forward attack" It's been like 10 Tekken games, they know what's up and despite this Tekken characters are still very unique in their play styles compared to other games. There is nothing wrong with making characters that have a unique combination of tools that some other characters have.
No, its different. Think of it this way. What if Guile's Sonic boom and flash kick suddenly have SRK/QCF inputs while not being nerfed properties wise? He's gonna have much more advantage to the other chars, and Ryu will become obsolete. He either needs Sonic boom or flash kick to get nerfed, or everyone needs to have the same toolset as him.
The problem roots with the current philosophy of theirs of making super noob friendly characters that has easy execution but giving high yield of success. Why would I play Baek and be smart yet ballsy with my FLA pressure when I can be TTT2 Lars/T7 Shaheen get much more success being YOLO? It became too good to a point that everyone should have those moves that those characters have or they wont be competitive.
The bad thing about this too is that the game turns into a 1 dimentional game, since there is only a few optimal ways to play, if there is an option for playstyles at all. And the new character designs reflect that.
GrayFoxPL
Member
I dunno. I think LC is the most accurate depiction of Cat-Fu I've ever seen.
In this version:
Cat-Fu
Exorcist-Fu
Hulk-Fu
Juggs-Fu
Crybaby-Fu
Tiger Mom Fu
OPEC-Fu
No seriously, they nailed all of those totally real life fighting styles, IMO.
.
.
.
.
Lol. Good one. We must practice Wait-Fu.
One thing doesn't have to eliminate the other. If every character had given so much attention to style representation as Jin with his Kyokushin or Bruce with Muay Thai, I'd be really happy.
Made up "sci-fi" moves are a thing in Tekken and they can be very cool and flashy but I love when alongside them eg. Mishimas sport real Karate style moves like Kazuya has few Shotokan and Heihachi Goju Ryu. I'd put much more of these if I could.
That doesn't mean I'd turn Tekken into boring ultra realistic fg. Even real moves in Tekken have over the top effects and that's what I like.
I agree that putting excessive motion captured animations that would take 100 frames makes no sense in competitive fighting game. But on the other hand they don't have to be in. Real fighting styles have enough fast and unique moves to be well fit into Tekken.
The "hand-made" animations are usually very good in Tekken, but not always. Sometimes they can, maybe not ruin, but break the immersion and character presentation.
For me a clear example of that is Raven. If you fire up T5/DR and check out his moveset it is striking how beautifully and smoothly he's animated. I even dare to say he's motion captured to hell and back. It really makes for awesome looking and fighting character.
Then if you fire up Tag2 and check out Raven there's striking contrast between his "original" T5 moves and new hand made ones. Things like f+2,3, b+2,4 or extension of his original "breakdance sweep" fc df+3+4,4 look cartoony in comparison.
These are good moves and help the character but at the same time their low quality animation "uglified" his fighting style and presentation. I'd even say the original 5/DR animations were "cut up" a little to match the way weaker T6, Tag2 ones, but maybe it's my imagination.
It's like if a sequel to some hi quality 2D fighting game was made by poorer dev that tried to copy the original but everyone still notices those contrasting unmatching frames and weak sprites animated at half the framerate of originals.
Cosmic Forge put it in a comical way but yeah I miss the "martial arts ingredient" in most new T7 characters. Claudio, Katarina, Chloe, Gigas are clowning around in my eyes. I don't feel they are fighting "seriously".
I feel like in the old days Tekken Team watched tons of old anime, kung fu and karate movies/docs and put those moves in the game.
Now I think they ONLY watch anime and not necessarily those of a martial art themes....
Or game director comes in and:
"That genocide cutter from Kof, give to someone."
"But who?"
"Flip a coin. Will fit to anyone anyway, lol."
Though I must say It's cool that Kazumi has actual Karate stuff aside throwing tigers around.
I'm a kinda karate freak and I love what Am2(3?) did with Jean in VF5FS and Team Ninja with Hitomi/Ein. I'd love if Tekken Team gave more of that "karate juice" to Kazuya.
This post is not necessary aimed at ZTS, I always wanted to share these thoughts and just had good opportunity.
I dunno. I think LC is the most accurate depiction of Cat-Fu I've ever seen.
In this version:
Cat-Fu
Exorcist-Fu
Hulk-Fu
Juggs-Fu
Crybaby-Fu
Tiger Mom Fu
OPEC-Fu
No seriously, they nailed all of those totally real life fighting styles, IMO.
.
.
.
.
LOL. Can't forget Wai-Fu.
SquirrelSoup
Member
Don't agree with putting Katarina in the same tier as those others. Her stuff is as "real-ish" as many other characters.
Though personally i feel the bears and robots are far more divergent from the 'srs martial arts' vibe than the fact that Xiaoyu or Chloe or Eddy's fairy flippy sort of fighting style actually works.
Then again, I'd be so much more thrilled at a judo or eskrima or even pencak silat character than whatever the feck Gigas is supposed to be. So i guess i sorta agree with you....
GrayFoxPL
Member
Katarina kinda...but it's really mostly random kicking... I don't think you'll see jump sweeping, rainbow arc jumping double overhead kicks or somersaults in Savate. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's there somewhere.(Edit:I mean maybe it's a good representation by Tekken's crazy movesets, but I just don't buy it at all.) I just wouldn't be surprised if they slapped on "savate" on her mid development because it sounded cool.
Bears and Jacks etc. don't use martial arts but do we expect a new human character to have a fighting style as random as those? Like you said judo or eskrima or pencak silat - that would be something I'd be hyped about too. Swag-Fu or whatever Claudio is doing not so much.
On the other hand Xiao uses some kung fu styles and Eddy Capoeira which are real but Chloe mixes breakdancing with Derp-Fu.
Bears and Jacks etc. don't use martial arts but do we expect a new human character to have a fighting style as random as those? Like you said judo or eskrima or pencak silat - that would be something I'd be hyped about too. Swag-Fu or whatever Claudio is doing not so much.
On the other hand Xiao uses some kung fu styles and Eddy Capoeira which are real but Chloe mixes breakdancing with Derp-Fu.
Cosmic Forge
Member
Damn. I can't believe I forgot that one. I was tired.
I think we can replace Tiger Mom Fu with Wai-Fu. Or they can be interchangeable.
I also like Derp-Fu instead of Cat-Fu.
I'm still hoping Lei gets thrown back in at some point.
However, I would LOVE if they would flesh out his stances so that he could pick a style and stay in it the whole match(and actually be viable)... kinda like Gen from SF. Each style would have all the requisite basics: pokes, mids, throws and command throws. The only issue might be side steps and walking. How would you input stance transitions?
All this just so I can go into Drunken style and stay there the whole match.
ThumbsUp.jpg
GrayFoxPL
Member
Someone here also wanted for Lei to have Drunken style as his main style.
About your other idea. It's neat. It actually be like Lei but 5-6 different characters. Maybe someday in Tekken 8.... but I would like those 5-6 different characters(Lei's children?!) each training in one of Lei styles and Lei could be a master of Drunken Fist.
But you know what? Judging from new T7 characters I think they are going away from stances.
Lei could be dead forever. Noooooooooo!
GrayFoxPL
Member
Lei was killed after falling victim to yet another overhead road sign while fighting on top of a bus. He wasn't so lucky this time.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
DEATH;206447027 said:
You are showing a lack of understanding of how 2D games and fighting games work in general. 90% of fireball motions are QCF and they all have different properties for every character. Poison has Fireball recovery on par with Guile and it's a QCF. The point you don't seem to get is the why and the details which are the same for Tekke.
Why does Poison's fireball recovery so fast? Cause it doesn't go full screen. Why doesn't Bruce have a low that KD on normal hit? Cause he has b+2. Why doesn't Ling have a i15 hopkick, why is it's range shitty? Cause she has d/f+21. Why is Claudio's hopkick so good? Cause it's his only usable standing launcher that doesn't require a power up? Why does Ken's DP have more range, better invincibility, and do more damage than Ryu's? Cause his fireballs have worse recovery. All hopkicks, orbitals, and magic 4s aren't created equal just like every DP and fireball isn't.
Every design decision has a logical choice.
Also you are showing lack of understanding of what even made Lars good in Tag 2 or Shaheen good in T7. It has nothing to do with his crush game or the recovery on u/f+3. Incase you didn't notice, none of that changed in T7(it actually got better) and he is now considered a low mid tier character. The reason Lars was good in Tag 2 was damage and working well in the Tag engine. Heck if you look at it on paper they buffed Lars in T7 but it wasn't enough. Shaheen Is Top cause of his damage and the fact he has too many tools not any one specific one.
All this complaining about making easy characters too good in a game everyone thinks is too hard to play and Mishimas are all over the top 5. It's silly.
On bolded, you just made my point about the Guile scenario I proposed. There should be a drawback somehow if you make such change. Actually, you just proved my point about Tag 2 and T6 Lars. He has those moves that break laws, matched with insane juggle damage, and based on his execution requirements, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR HIM TO HAVE THAT MUCH ADVANTAGE. That isn't logical, well, unless they want a character that scrubs can play and immediately be good at.
I mean, even if you consider that he's supposed to be punishable, the whole crushing/evading problem is so big that the punish became so inconsistent, making him get away with YOLOing. Ok, Ok, it's just one character, that's fine, but if suddenly if everyone needs to adapt this kind of playstyle, that's what's wrong.
I mean, if a character like King, who is presented as a grappler, acts like a grappler, and have a bunch of moves that shout grappler, you should be scared of his grapples right? NO! YOU ARE MORE SCARED OF HIS KNEES (hopeknee, bomaye), AND HIS STRIKES (new lows along with damaging mids that lead to piss easy juggles). That's the problem. This playstyle became the template for new characters. This playstyle became the deciding factor on which character gets in or not, and this playstyle ruined good designed characters.
Not only that, it also gonna ruin their objective of getting new players, because even tekken vets don't understand what happened at times when something crushes. And it just reinforces this idea that the game is just nothing but juggles. After all, the tools each character has geared toward that, among other things too long to type.
Cosmic Forge
Member
I read this and I immediately think
(The guy's even got some Lei-like moves)
Baby Mama Drama? I think Lei will need his own game at this point!
But you know what? Judging from new T7 characters I think they are going away from stances.
GrayFoxPL
Member
I read this and I immediately think
(The guy's even got some Lei-like moves)
That guy knows his Lei stuff!
Baby Mama Drama? I think Lei will need his own game at this point!
Lei's own game Yakuza style is long overdue. Namco has treasures but prefers to Idolmaster.
FormallyFamicom
Member
GrayFoxPL
Member
Btw. Tekken has different hit animations depending if hit from front, side or back but in the air if you hit backturned oponnent it just looks wonkey and wrong. The backturned tailspin looks even worse, but in general it looks like no one gave a shit to give juggled backturned opponent right hit animations. Like you're not supposed to do that ever, lol. Maybe FR will fix that.
These are low expectations? Famicon, we won't get anything. Set yourself that low and maybe we'll get something. Like a trailer that is some old clips put togheter. That low.
Did you notice anyone in the know hyping anything about Tekken at E3? Or even fake rumours? When did we get an actual surprise without ppl hyping it all over the net 3 weeks prior ending in tournament announcement.
FormallyFamicom
Member
Now the E3 show, that I have zero expectations from. Though there is some precedent...remember when IGN leaked Tekken 7??
GrayFoxPL
Member
Too much disappointment, too many times my friend.
Watching Maximilian's GGXRevelator review and wow it has matchup tutorial. Crazy. Crazy smart. Tekken would sure benefit from that. At least make the game teach noobs most abusive tactics of every character to get by first 2 months of so.
Watching Maximilian's GGXRevelator review and wow it has matchup tutorial. Crazy. Crazy smart. Tekken would sure benefit from that. At least make the game teach noobs most abusive tactics of every character to get by first 2 months of so.
GrayFoxPL
Member
LowParry
Member
Get ready for the next battle...dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun!
Naw seriously though. Should I empty any sort of expectations this week then with T7 news at E3?
SquirrelSoup
Member
Honestly, yes. There's going to be a few demos, like at IGN or tomorrow at youtube's E3 channel, but i don't expect more than "Look, here's T7. In arcades this summer. We'll have more news about console in the future. "
Perhaps we'll get a release date at E3 next year. ;/
LowParry
Member
I'm still guessing Q1 2017 for a time frame.
Yep. We need to forward this to Namco so they can get some tips to make tutorial a bit more fun. I mean why not?
Via Purifico
Banned
Welp image is too big but this is at E3
https://67.media.tumblr.com/e85cd97ca94efe9d036204a4f1cdddc5/tumblr_o8onp6AYl71tw7i4so3_1280.jpg
https://67.media.tumblr.com/e85cd97ca94efe9d036204a4f1cdddc5/tumblr_o8onp6AYl71tw7i4so3_1280.jpg
SquirrelSoup
Member
Yeah, it's really good. Would have liked more than 2 matchup tutorials per character, but perhaps that would scare noobs away.
Xrd R does a lot of things right. Great game.
Honestly any game that doesn't have lobbies like Blazblue or Xrd R is completely messing up.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Would be fun walking chibi Tekken characters around. Though the World Arena thing in Tag2 was a flop, I used it maybe 5 times. Very shitty matchmaking. So yes but only if connection finder works as fast as ranked match.
Badass art. Should be in wallpaper form.
Via Purifico
Banned
Agreed, I love it and wouldn't mind that being the boxart.
Man that looks amazing. I love the realistic look of Heihachi and Kazuya, so bad ass.
Don't mess with the Mishima family, damn.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Of shit I missed this. That looks awesome.
No No No I can't hype myself for nothing again! No!
Lee Chaolan
Member
Good chance we hear of Console exclusive characters at E3?
GrayFoxPL
Member
Nah, release is far away.
Lee Chaolan
Member
*Mist steps back into the shadows*
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