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Tekken Tag Tournament 2 |OT| Awaiting the "Final Battle"

DR2K

Banned
Stop being silly. As I already mentioned to you, just because VF has juggles and DoA has juggles and Tekken has juggles doesn't mean the high-level play in all three of the games looks the same or plays the same or requires the same skills. Same thing applies to spacing, movement, oki game and wakeups, throws, and high low mixups. It's very naive to assume that if all games have the same features, they all work the same and have the same high-level play requirements. Using just juggles as an example, you can see how, for instance, knowing the stages may be a big part of Tekken if a player wants to do wall carries and do maximum damage. Same thing when the player does early bounds to perform tech traps and confuse the opponent. The juggle system is creative. Along with this, add the other stuff AAK mentioned about juggles and you'll see that juggles in Tekken do not work the same way as DoA or VF.

Same sort of differentiation can be applied to the other stuff you listed that you are apparently assuming to be the same across the board for all three franchises.


Everything you stated can be applied vice versa for other games. Did you know that VF and DOA have a weight system in which heavier characters fall faster forcing you to completely alter your juggle? Did you know that DOA has slopes and dangerzones that give you different juggle oppertunities? Did you know that VF also allows for characters to do bounds in their combos? See the juggle system is creative in these games too and require their own knowledge and depth to fully utilize.

I mean really these mechanics aren't that different in terms of application more so execution.
 

Sayah

Member
Everything you stated can be applied vice versa for other games. Did you know that VF and DOA have a weight system in which heavier characters fall faster forcing you to completely alter your juggle? Did you know that DOA has slopes and dangerzones that give you different juggle oppertunities? Did you know that VF also allows for characters to do bounds in their combos? See the juggle system is creative in these games too and require their own knowledge and depth to fully utilize.

I mean really these mechanics aren't that different in terms of application more so execution.

Yes? And? That proves my point further. Depth and high-level play for all three games varies = it is not the same.
 

AAK

Member
Well if there are they aren't in high level play.

Alright then, if you're so adamant about proving this, show me a set of matches of high level play of Tekken and another set of matches of high level play of another game and tell me how there are more options being exhibited in the other game.
 

DR2K

Banned
Yes? And? That proves my point further. Depth and high-level play for all three games varies = it is not the same.

I think it's a lot more simplified with high level concerned actually.

Alright then, if you're so adamant about proving this, show me a set of matches of high level play of Tekken and another set of matches of high level play of another game and tell me how there are more options being exhibited in the other game.

Well I never made the claim that others had more, but I'm sure I can show you vids of 2 players blocking, whiffing, sidestepping, guessing, and doing high damage juggles for any fighter.

My claim was that Tekken asked you to do more to get from point A to point B.

Watching some VF matches now

http://www.twitch.tv/iplaywinner
 

AAK

Member
who cares?

Like seriously.

Why does everything have to be a "My game of choice is better than your game of choice"?

fuck man.

"Better" argument is always going to be completely subjective. The topic at hand about number of mechanics and options present, which can be quantified.
 

Sayah

Member
How do you get the throw escape trophy? It must be different than throw breaks since I've done plenty of those.
I haven't actually even looked at the trophies.
But it says you have to do 10 throw escapes. You sure you've done it 10 times? Go to defensive training and just have the CPU do a 1+3 throw. Press 1. Time it right and do it 10 times. Hope that works.

this game pisses me off so much

Stop playing online games. Spend all your time in practice and ghost battles until you're ready --> as in, you know your characters well and can perform your best combos/tag assaults with ease.
 

DarkoMaledictus

Tier Whore
So about to start the game in a few minutes once it installs. So how is it compared to past iterations, any comments about how it plays and how high level the game can get?
 

Sayah

Member
So about to start the game in a few minutes once it installs. So how is it compared to past iterations, any comments about how it plays and how high level the game can get?

Game plays beautifully. Take all the time you need to practice your combos/learn your characters before you go online.
 
I haven't actually even looked at the trophies.
But it says you have to do 10 throw escapes. You sure you've done it 10 times? Go to defensive training and just have the CPU do a 1+3 throw. Press 1. Time it right and do it 10 times. Hope that works.



Stop playing online games. Spend all your time in practice and ghost battles until you're ready --> as in, you know your characters well and can perform your best combos/tag assaults with ease.
I didn't get the trophy until I landed the breaks in Ghost and Online mode.
 

DEATH™

Member
-How does f, hcf +1 turn into b+1+3? It would just be f, hcf+1+2 (because of the break, the 1 break animation would stay the same). Muscle Buster would stay the same. You're arguing against points that I'm not making.

I picked b+1+3 because it's a 1 break and King throws them in the back...

BTW I read it again and see what you mean, but it still won't work. Throws are notated like they had for a reason.

I point at Jin's qcb+1+3. It has a better oki and 40 damage, but when you try to perform it, there's alot of times that a regular 1+3 comes out. Therefore, it's not used as regularly compared to df+2+3 (which is easier to input). Just imagine if you made df+2+3 into df+2+4, oftentimes you will mess up the directions and instead of df+2+4, F+2+4 will come put, which is slower throw with less damage.


-Backdash sidestep cancel still results in a small movement to the side, which is a bad idea in a game with walls. If a player wants to position themselves straight backwards, they shouldn't have to settle for going back and to the side.

That's the point. BD~SS is easier, and it serves purpose to space out as well as BDC, but it has that weakness. It's a fine tradeoff. Let people get rewarded if they want to practice BDC.

-True backdash cancel is super safe (2-3 frames of vulnerability) and consistently performed by the Koreans. Their matches aren't some super boring snorefests so I don't see where you'd get that idea.
As a player, we enjoy these matches, because we know what's happening and we know how difficult it is, it increases the value of what we watch. But if you try to wear a big-two stream monster googles, what you see is a boring game with "clunky" movement. Just look at the commenters here, they already complaining about movement like it looks clunky!

BTW that true backdash cancel is caused by koreans playing EVERYDAY. The point is, hard work pays off, and instead of dumbing down the game, the community should continually help these new players. That includes tough love...

Responses in bold

The heavier you are the faster you fall.

Galileo says otherwise...
 

DEATH™

Member
Easier way to think of it: The heavier you are, the harder it is to knock you high into the air.

But you still don't fall faster... Gravitational Acceleration is constant 9.8 m/s^2. It's true that you require more force to launch someone heavier in the air, but that will mean Nobody should be able to launch Bass aside another Bass... Saying this weight system makes DOA resembles physics, I can totally say it's just a illusion. FGs don't obey newton's laws for mechanic's sake...
 

DEATH™

Member
Wow, that's the lamest shit ever. I want to see Angel in a bikini dammit. T_T

They always ruin it for the rest of us.

Hey don't judge bro... I want her in a bikini but I can see why some might get iffy about it... If her name wasn't Angel, maybe it would work...

BTW THANK YOU RVY!!!

IT'S TOO MANLY!!!
ibueFKXyIjAGwU.gif
 
Ah, okay. thanks.

Yup
Wow, that's the lamest shit ever. I want to see Angel in a bikini dammit. T_T

They always ruin it for the rest of us.

Yeah this sucks. I and many of us here were under the impression that she didnt have one beacuse of technical issues involving her wings. I assumed with the WiiU being more powerful than the current consoles maybe they could work around whatever issues they had and could give her one. Needless to say I'm pretty sad. I bet she would have looked insanely good in whatever they put on her.
 
Alright that was several times easier than I expected.

Got the 1st Dan online achievement and I have a positive win/loss ratio too! Maybe everyone on 360 is free or something. Oh well.
Also I got fucked up by the dumbest stuff. Ran into some Yoshi player that mashed..well..something and it ruined me. Same with Lars and his BS.

Played a bit of Nina btw...I feel so dirty.

I bet she would have looked insanely good in whatever they put on her.

Wouldn't have mattered since most of the bikinis are ruined by those ugly brown sandals.
 

alstein

Member
Tekken emphasises skill. That's why it's so popular in Asia and to players that like to be rewarded for their time and hard work that put into it. It's not an instant gratification game.
There's reason there's instantly visible disparity between noobies and seasoned players in Tekken. There's that long road of constant self improvement and learning. Tekken doesn't give anything on platter for lazy audience and no amount of whining will change that.

Why do you think DoA is not popular among Asians and hardcore crowd? Because it's not a deep series. It's a fun casual fighter but that's all. There are now real combos, stuns don't mean anything outside of very few examples(new unholdable stun after 4 hits and water trips) and juggles don't require any advanced movement, after launcher just stay still, dial 2 best strings and that's it. In Tekken many juggles require insane amount of correct movement, few frame dashes and move and movement cancels that may be invisible for someone not in the know.

Seeking guaranteed damage is one of the core point of competitive fighting game and DoA has very little of that, thus is the reason DoA isn't treated very seriously.

DoA isn't popular because it wasn't in arcades, same reason SC isn't popular.

If Tekken-like skill was what Asians wanted the most- would Persona have done as well as it did? Why did Tekken supplant VF as the #1 3D fighter- VF is at least as deep as Tekken.

Tekken's popular because of big flashy combos and character design.
 
I'd like to emphasize the fact that DR2K believes that heavier things fall down faster in reality.
Well the characters in the game aren't fighting in a vacuum so the resistance from the air should make it so that they hit just a fraction sooner. =P

DoA isn't popular because it wasn't in arcades, same reason SC isn't popular.
DOA isn't popular because it's a terrible game, which, for the record, did start out in the arcade.
 

Shouta

Member
DEATH™;42413537 said:
But you still don't fall faster... Gravitational Acceleration is constant 9.8 m/s^2. It's true that you require more force to launch someone heavier in the air, but that will mean Nobody should be able to launch Bass aside another Bass... Saying this weight system makes DOA resembles physics, I can totally say it's just a illusion. FGs don't obey newton's laws for mechanic's sake...

Ahem, neeeeeeeeeeeeeerd. That's all. lol

DOA isn't popular because it's a terrible game, which, for the record, did start out in the arcade.

Arcade presence helps in Japan though.

The first two DOAs were in arcades every one after was a home release in Japan as I recall. SE and SC1/2 were arcade games. SC3 had an arcade release but it wasn't super popular or well known.
 

DEATH™

Member
DoA isn't popular because it wasn't in arcades, same reason SC isn't popular.

If Tekken-like skill was what Asians wanted the most- would Persona have done as well as it did? Why did Tekken supplant VF as the #1 3D fighter- VF is at least as deep as Tekken.

Tekken's popular because of big flashy combos and character design.

Maybe because Tekken's vast amount of characters and large movelists gave the game infinite creative potential and replayability? That there's at least one character that fits each and every person's taste and playstyle?

Ahem, neeeeeeeeeeeeeerd. That's all. lol

Thanks for the compliment *blush*
 
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