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Tekken Tag Tournament 2 |OT| Awaiting the "Final Battle"

Sayah

Member
Made some breakthroughs today and doubled my survival record using some new combos I stumbled on. My record is still garbage, but...it feels good. Almost makes up for those hair-pulling losses online.

Are you playing on Wii U as your main console?

If so, is the online community active?
Every time I read Sayah's name it reminds of this old Tekken ripoff from Konami back on the PS1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT8xdOuE8mA

Even the hit sparks are the same :lol It looks so bad now, but I remember having a blast.

My username was made after an urdu/hindi word. haha.
I suck with usernames so I just came up with that when registering. It means "shadow." Really dumb. Don't know what I was thinking. lolololol. Maybe I should ask a mod to change it if that can be done?
 

braves01

Banned
Are you playing on Wii U as your main console?

If so, is the online community active?

Yeah, I'm on Wii U, and no, online isn't that active at least when I've tried to play. It's dropped off quite a bit since launch. I'm probably going to pick up the PS3 version soon so I can get online more and maybe get a little better.

DEATH™;58014396 said:
Hey braves, you still using the brawlstick? I might play around in PS at Summer... I can finally play more!!!

I use a TvC stick right now since I'm on Wii U, but I think the TvC stick and Brawl stick use the same template. And thanks again!
 

Sayah

Member
Yeah, I'm on Wii U, and no, online isn't that active at least when I've tried to play. It's dropped off quite a bit since launch. I'm probably going to pick up the PS3 version soon so I can get online more and maybe get a little better.

That sucks to hear but I didn't expect it to be active. Gonna buy it regardless when I get a Wii U for Smash Bros. 4.
 
My username was made after an urdu/hindi word. haha.
I suck with usernames so I just came up with that when registering. It means "shadow." Really dumb. Don't know what I was thinking. lolololol. Maybe I should ask a mod to change it if that can be done?

Nah. It was a cool name before you told me what it meant. :p

As you can see, I don't put much thought into my usernames either.
 
My username was made after an urdu/hindi word. haha.
I suck with usernames so I just came up with that when registering. It means "shadow." Really dumb. Don't know what I was thinking. lolololol. Maybe I should ask a mod to change it if that can be done?


That is actually really creative I think. Sounds cool to me. I wouldn't change it. My name came from a cartoon character I made up many years ago. I added the Fusion because er....I don't know, I thought it sounded cool.


Nah. It was a cool name before you told me what it meant. :p

As you can see, I don't put much thought into my usernames either.


MrCookiepants made my laugh when I saw it. I think it is funny.
 

DEATH™

Member
that set was intense! I know they were both sweating bullets. JFJ is a monster. Had to root for #jaguars though

the pros make using AK look so easy...

What's hard about playing AK though? He plays too braindead for me... *Yet two guys with a jaguar mask folding people up is too awesome to give up...*

P.S. I'm not talking about braindead as in easy.. I mean braindead as in just a straightforward character...
 

Degen

Member
Well I know one strategy is to df1, jab, and attempt Giant Swings for half the match lol

He does strike me as a "Ryu" type of character (no tricky stuff), but I can't seem to play him as effectively as King

man... do I rely on gimmicks that heavily? this is bad lol...
 

DEATH™

Member
Well I know one strategy is to df1, jab, and attempt Giant Swings for half the match lol

He does strike me as a "Ryu" type of character (no tricky stuff), but I can't seem to play him as effectively as King

man... do I rely on gimmicks that heavily? this is bad lol...

This is kinda why I somehow hate to play him... I'm only playing him because I play King. You can't really do any creative stuff with him and you can't explore a thing...

And Degen, just learn how to punish and you're good bro... start with doing every punishable stuff with b+1,2...
 

Dereck

Member
I lost/won by a double K.O., online. I have never seen a double K.O., happen to me until this day.

Online ranked can be fun, sometimes.

Funniest thing in the world.
 

AAK

Member
My brain hurts thinking about the future of Tekken haha. If it's still fun, I'll still play it. If not, There's always VF6. I probably will always be in the niche market of fighting games. I don't see myself yet indulging too much into Capcom games so I'll have to come to terms with the fact I'll be playing games with small communities.

Skilletor's comments are starting to resonate with me and it's time I stopped behaving all persecuted and understand that my tastes are of a minority and I guess I should be thankful the Tekken community hasn't reached the activity levels of the other 3D games yet.

Regardless, remember Rami the Yoshi/AK player that got 3rd at Toryuken? He posted a very interesting comment on Facebook yesterday:

Man, the more I play Tekken online, the more I realize that at the higher ranks, NONE of the tactics that work are good.

I played proper Tekken and got beat by silly online tactics a few times. When I started playing like a retard, and threw out launchers over and over again, I won.

I felt dirty inside, and realized why so many players suck in real life. They play online, go unpunished and unsidestepped, and win. Then they play offline, lose horribly, and wonder where they went wrong.

The thing is, higher ranks online ALL do lag tactics. None of them are good players: all of them are good ONLINE players.

I have to admit, I got a bit depressed. The last time I played ThatsHot, he won 5-0, and rather than get annoyed, I was SHOCKED at how scrubby he really was. His mixups only work if you can't sidestep, or dash and block. Half the time I dash blocked, to lure out a hopkick, he threw it out, and I killed him for it. The other half, he threw it out, but lag stopped me from blocking.

I think the worst part is, many of these players may actually be good, but are doing the random launchers thing because it's more effective online.

I found it pretty insightful from a top offline player and it basically resonates with Aris/Bloodhawk. Will North America ever get good internet :(
 

Sayah

Member
Finally got that damn firewall removed so I should be able to join your lobbies now AAK.
Nah. It was a cool name before you told me what it meant. :p

As you can see, I don't put much thought into my usernames either.

That is actually really creative I think. Sounds cool to me. I wouldn't change it. My name came from a cartoon character I made up many years ago. I added the Fusion because er....I don't know, I thought it sounded cool.
ny.

hahahaha, thanks. I guess I'll stick with it.

DEATH™;58110996 said:
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=127274

Sorry, I gotta post this wall of text... I know Harada, Filthie and co. are listening to what is happening right now... I have to say something...

I was somehow able to login to TZ and posted a reply.
 

Doomshine

Member
Reading those posts I definitely see something that could improved and that is the move list. Not necessarily trimming it but how it's presented.

If they can (I have no idea what the patent situation is that everyone is talking about) they should take some ideas from VF and show for example which way moves track.

If they are hellbent on not showing frames then maybe they could take the "punish" idea further and show "unsafe" or "advantage" on block. Basically anything to give new people an idea what moves can be used for what purpose.

They could also list "main moves" like in SC and get help from top players to compile these. Maybe 10-20 moves that are important for the character and a brief description of them.

There's probably more but this is what popped in my mind for now.
 

Sayah

Member
Reading those posts I definitely see something that could improved and that is the move list. Not necessarily trimming it but how it's presented.

If they can (I have no idea what the patent situation is that everyone is talking about) they should take some ideas from VF and show for example which way moves track.

If they are hellbent on not showing frames then maybe they could take the "punish" idea further and show "unsafe" or "advantage" on block. Basically anything to give new people an idea what moves can be used for what purpose.

They could also list "main moves" like in SC and get help from top players to compile these. Maybe 10-20 moves that are important for the character and a brief description of them.

There's probably more but this is what popped in my mind for now.


I mentioned this on TZ but I really do hate categorized movelists from VF and SC. I think they just go from punch moves to kick moves to Punch + Kick moves to Punch + Guard, Kick + Guard, etc. That's not going to work in Tekken. One because Tekken doesn't have a guard button. Two, because what would be the point of having a command list that says: "Here are your 1+2 moves, here are your 3+4 moves, etc." And if you are thinking of categorizing them by "here are your launchers, here are your bound moves, etc," that's kind of pointless as well. TTT2 already labels tab bufferable launchers (red color), bounds (green), tracking moves (blue), etc. So I don't really think these need to be split up into different categories. I like the idea of having just one command list and one section to look at instead of sifting through all of these different sections.

I agree with the second idea you gave, though. Narrowing down a movelist to 20 or so essential moves will probably help newcomers.

Your first idea would probably take a lot of development time and funds to develop (I would imagine) and may not be realistically viable. I personally think they should make an individualized tutorial for each character (something that no fighter has done up to this point). But again, that depends on the type of funds and resources they have and may not be possible.

I apologize if my post came off as harsh but I really despise categorized move lists.
DEATH™;58127798 said:
Thanks Sayah...

I wanna reply again but I gotta work... I will gather all my thoughts again at the expense of my final tom :D

Nah. Study for that final and block TZ and neogaf on your browser.
 
DEATH™;58110996 said:
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=127274

Sorry, I gotta post this wall of text... I know Harada, Filthie and co. are listening to what is happening right now... I have to say something...

I'd like to add universal low parry and low parry into damage onto that list. Safe low hasn't meant anything in Tekken for quite a while. Also zero deterioration combo filler like Nina's iWS+1 and Lee's b+2~f need to be shown the door.
 

Doomshine

Member
I mentioned this on TZ but I really do hate categorized movelists from VF and SC. I think they just go from punch moves to kick moves to Punch + Kick moves to Punch + Guard, Kick + Guard, etc. That's not going to work in Tekken.

I actually don't like that either so it would have to be a way that makes sense for Tekken.

Maybe they could add more icons? Show a "+" on moves that leave you at advantage on block or something like that. I honestly don't know, but there needs to be a way to show to move list to new players without making it look like a wall of text with no meaning.
 

Sayah

Member
I actually don't like that either so it would have to be a way that makes sense for Tekken.

Maybe they could add more icons? Show a "+" on moves that leave you at advantage on block or something like that. I honestly don't know, but there needs to be a way to show to move list to new players without making it look like a wall of text with no meaning.

Yeah, that would be good and not so time consuming for devs either. Sorry. I thought you meant going in further depth with that whole advantage/disadvantage with frames.

They should build off of the icons they are already using and develop that concept even further.
 

Doomshine

Member
Yeah, that would be good and not so time consuming for devs either. Sorry. I thought you meant going in further depth with that whole advantage/disadvantage with frames.

The should build off of the icons they are already using and develop that even further.

Actually what I meant was displaying "advantage", "disadvantage" or "unsafe" like they did with "punish" in practice mode.
 

Apenheul

Member
I've seen the Tatsunoko vs Capcom stick mentioned a couple of times in relation to TTT2 for Wii U, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the character to control with it instead of the d-pad. On the Wii U gamepad I can change movement to the left stick by holding the d-pad and subsequently pressing the left-stick in the controls options menu, but I haven't managed to do that for the TvC stick or a CCPro controller for that matter. What am I missing?
 

Sayah

Member
I've seen the Tatsunoko vs Capcom stick mentioned a couple of times in relation to TTT2 for Wii U, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the character to control with it instead of the d-pad. On the Wii U gamepad I can change movement to the left stick by holding the d-pad and subsequently pressing the left-stick in the controls options menu, but I haven't managed to do that for the TvC stick or a CCPro controller for that matter. What am I missing?

I unfortunately do not own the Wii U version so can't help you out much. Hopefully braves will see this and maybe he can help you out.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Sorry for the bump, but it's in permanent sale (so, price drop) on the PAL eshop. 29 €
I've heard very positive feedback on this Wii U version, do you confirm?
I'm very tempted but I don't have an external HDD, so...I know that it is very heavy...
 

Sayah

Member
Sorry for the bump, but it's in permanent sale (so, price drop) on the PAL eshop. 29 €
I've heard very positive feedback on this Wii U version, do you confirm?
I'm very tempted but I don't have an external HDD, so...I know that it is very heavy...

Yes, buy it.

If this is your first time playing Tekken and you need any help, don't hesitate to ask here.
 

braves01

Banned
I've seen the Tatsunoko vs Capcom stick mentioned a couple of times in relation to TTT2 for Wii U, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the character to control with it instead of the d-pad. On the Wii U gamepad I can change movement to the left stick by holding the d-pad and subsequently pressing the left-stick in the controls options menu, but I haven't managed to do that for the TvC stick or a CCPro controller for that matter. What am I missing?

Since your Wii remote seems like it's paired and working, the only thing I can think of that might be causing your problem is the TvC stick settings. Make sure the slider in the top left corner on the stick is set to "DP" so the stick is read by the game as dpad input and not left or right stick. I haven't needed to change anything else in the game settings to get my stick to work.
 

Manbig

Member
Wooo. Took my last serious final today. All I have is a bullshit easy final on Friday that I don't have to study for and I'm completely done. Gonna start working on getting stuff ready for the Marduk movelist rundown.
 

Sayah

Member
DEATH™;58440897 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vnYHxj2ghE

JDCR interview bodying US Tekken veterans for complaining... (kinda crappy volume but can be tolerable)...

Discuss...


I didn't catch that podcast but FAB and GM are really calling the game "broken" and "random?" What?

Tekken can be frustrating, no doubt, but that's part of its appeal.

Agree with JDCR on pretty much everything. Game doesn't need to be changed heavily from what it presently is. Namco just needs to focus on making a very advanced tutorial for new players.

And I always hate when people say Koreans had more time to learn the game. "That's why they beat us."

Here you have JDCR saying he and other top players play the game 5-6 hours per week.

If time was all that important, you wouldn't have people like speedkicks and RiB rising above the ranks so fast.
 

DEATH™

Member
I didn't catch that podcast but FAB and GM are really calling the game "broken" and "random?" What?

Tekken can be frustrating, no doubt, but that's part of its appeal.

Agree with JDCR on pretty much everything. Game doesn't need to be changed heavily from what it presently is. Namco just needs to focus on making a very advanced tutorial for new players.

And I always hate when people say Koreans had more time to learn the game. "That's why they beat us."

Here you have JDCR saying he and other top players play the game 5-6 hours per week.

If time was all that important, you wouldn't have people like speedkicks and RiB rising above the ranks so fast.

TBH his point about just loving the game pretty much says everything right now... Right now, you got one side getting frustrated in the game who just wants to win and we got another who just loves the game whether they win or lose. I guess it's more of a mindset than the game itself...

P.S. I got a 5 year old nephew and I made him play Tekken and now he's drawing King and Armor King... another 2 year old nephew I babysit knows Tekken now when he sees it. I even taught that 2 year old how to do a Leg Drop, DDT and a Stunner forreals. (He's gonna beat you someday Mannybigz).

I'm an awesome uncle Kappa
 

Manbig

Member
I didn't catch that podcast but FAB and GM are really calling the game "broken" and "random?" What?

Tekken can be frustrating, no doubt, but that's part of its appeal.

Agree with JDCR on pretty much everything. Game doesn't need to be changed heavily from what it presently is. Namco just needs to focus on making a very advanced tutorial for new players.

And I always hate when people say Koreans had more time to learn the game. "That's why they beat us."

Here you have JDCR saying he and other top players play the game 5-6 hours per week.

If time was all that important, you wouldn't have people like speedkicks and RiB rising above the ranks so fast.

The more consistent argument has always been that they have an arcade scene. Not that they play more. It's clear that 90% of the time that they play the game, it is vs each other and not even in training mode. We don't have that luxury here.

About Fab and GM, them complaining about randomness is nothing new. They've been doing that since pretty much day 1. Nothing new there.

What I did notice is that while he initially disagreed with a lot of the stuff that was brought up, he ended up changing his tune when Reno was more specific with his questions. He agreed that risk/reward is fucked up and he even agreed with Aris' sentiment about better players having to work much harder vs people that shouldn't give them trouble because of the crazy risk/reward factor in this game, which is EXACTLY what players like Fab and GM mean when they say "random"

Once again, the game clearly has issues. America's mindset is shitty too, of course, but that's nothing new. That doesn't mean that they should just ignore the structural problem with the game. Things need to be changed up again or less and less people are going to play it.
 

DEATH™

Member
The more consistent argument has always been that they have an arcade scene. Not that they play more. It's clear that 90% of the time that they play the game, it is vs each other and not even in training mode. We don't have that luxury here.

About Fab and GM, them complaining about randomness is nothing new. They've been doing that since pretty much day 1. Nothing new there.

What I did notice is that while he initially disagreed with a lot of the stuff that was brought up, he ended up changing his tune when Reno was more specific with his questions. He agreed that risk/reward is fucked up and he even agreed with Aris' sentiment about better players having to work much harder vs people that shouldn't give them trouble because of the crazy risk/reward factor in this game, which is EXACTLY what players like Fab and GM mean when they say "random"

Once again, the game clearly has issues. America's mindset is shitty too, of course, but that's nothing new. That doesn't mean that they should just ignore the structural problem with the game. Things need to be changed up again or less and less people are going to play it.


Here's my question... Change what??? You need to be more specific and not just throw the idea of "Hey this is flawed... fix this!"... We are players, so we should be giving them a more constructive argument why and imagine if the thing you propose will not screw things up, which is my point on that wall of text.

Look, I see why they made hopkicks -13. The whole thing can be floated when we use jabs for a free juggle. And if it's launch-punishable, no one will have the guts to throw it when they are getting pressured much (aka panic button).

In example, King's d+1+2, which is a class A launcher with a pretty good highcrush and a low hitbox that can dodge some mids. It highcrushes good, but why many King users don't use this much? Aside from being slow, it also is unsafe, which only make a few gutsy people to use this, and instead of using this when you are pressured by jabs and some mid pokes, you turn the move into a coin flip where you either win or lose. Now you render a move to be used less. That's what you're gonna do when you make hopkicks launchpunishable and you also devoid the players a panic button when they are pretty overwhelmed.

But then if you argue about panic moves shouldn't exist in the game, then you should argue too that Deathfist shouldn't be in the game due to its insane damage and having pushback, or Yoshi swordsweep, which is an really quick unblockable low launcher. They are there because they are good and people use them as their go to move. Everybody needs a go to move with decent properties. And it's our job as the player to recognize that they have that moves. Why would I go run aggressively with Paul when he's hiding that huge cannon arm to blast me? You gotta treat hopkicks the same way as that...

Just to make this clear, this Reno guy with the glasses, is the same person as Renikon, the Lars/Law player right?

Yep
 

Sayah

Member
The more consistent argument has always been that they have an arcade scene. Not that they play more. It's clear that 90% of the time that they play the game, it is vs each other and not even in training mode. We don't have that luxury here.

About Fab and GM, them complaining about randomness is nothing new. They've been doing that since pretty much day 1. Nothing new there.

What I did notice is that while he initially disagreed with a lot of the stuff that was brought up, he ended up changing his tune when Reno was more specific with his questions. He agreed that risk/reward is fucked up and he even agreed with Aris' sentiment about better players having to work much harder vs people that shouldn't give them trouble because of the crazy risk/reward factor in this game, which is EXACTLY what players like Fab and GM mean when they say "random"

Once again, the game clearly has issues. America's mindset is shitty too, of course, but that's nothing new. That doesn't mean that they should just ignore the structural problem with the game. Things need to be changed up again or less and less people are going to play it.


Tekken 7 will obviously have to bring new things to the table. But I don't want heavy structural changes that completely alter the depth that took so long for the franchise to establish. TKXSF will clearly be the testing ground for heavy structural changes and I hope it is a success. But if it isn't, then Namco should return back to "normal" Tekken play and try to work further with that.

You can go play certain 2D fighters and you will see waaaaaay more bullshit in them. Hopkicks are nothing in comparison if you wanna talk about random and broken.

I said this before and I will say it again since JDCR also mentioned it. Tekken needs a REALLY strong tutorial for beginners. If the dev team can somehow put together the funds to create expansive and deep tutorials for each individual character in the game, I think that would be the most helpful for beginners. It would be the best thing to do to convert casual gamers into more hardcore players.

Otherwise, even if risk/reward for hopkicks is changed, people are still going to find something new to complain about. I think the fact that even top, high-level players will lose to mid-tier players is a good thing. We don't have a Chris G that dominates every single tourney and the Tekken top players always have to be aware that anyone from below the ranks (through hard work and practice) may prove to be strong competition. I gave the example of RiB and speedkicks before. As long as there are people that devoted to playing Tekken, then there's always going to be someone new that threatens top players at tourneys.
 

DEATH™

Member
Also, look, having new players become threats too should be a good thing now... Main problem in DR was the old schoolers are good that noobs don't stand a chance. Even the fact that Aris admitted going to a tournament in T6 and being able to sleep through pools is a testament to noobs having no chance. (Which I also hate it too that they are playing the game longer than other so they should always win mentality, which speaks for themselves that they care about winning more than letting the game grow). It's why I am baffled by the fact that new players complain about the game about not having a chance because its too hard while the vets complain about noobs have it easier.

In the end, we got a bad mindset overall and we're just gonna complain...
 

Sayah

Member
DEATH™;58476877 said:
TBH his point about just loving the game pretty much says everything right now... Right now, you got one side getting frustrated in the game who just wants to win and we got another who just loves the game whether they win or lose. I guess it's more of a mindset than the game itself...

P.S. I got a 5 year old nephew and I made him play Tekken and now he's drawing King and Armor King... another 2 year old nephew I babysit knows Tekken now when he sees it. I even taught that 2 year old how to do a Leg Drop, DDT and a Stunner forreals. (He's gonna beat you someday Mannybigz).

I'm an awesome uncle Kappa

I don't know what the reasons are or may be. But people do just need to love the game and play it.

Nowadays, a lot of people have just made tourney's all about the money/pot splits. Or maybe that's how it's always been. I don't know because I haven't been very much or at all involved in the FGC or its scene. I've only been recently exposed to it.

But as far as competition goes, I try to take positives out of it (even if I'm super frustrated that I lost).

I used to get mad before but now it's almost non-existent. I just go into practice and practice against whatever opponent move gave me so much trouble until I learn to defend against it. (All that practice's implementation in an actual future match is another story. :p)

But yeah, maybe these people can train themselves to whiff punish hopkicks or something if they know the opponent is going to abuse them. I really don't even know what to say B/c I'm not as knowledgeable on Tekken as these top players so I always leave the possibility open for me being wrong on all of this.

Also, good work on that early Tekken training. :)
 

DEATH™

Member
I don't know what the reasons are or may be. But people do just need to love the game and play it.

Nowadays, a lot of people have just made tourney's all about the money/pot splits. Or maybe that's how it's always been. I don't know because I haven't been very much or at all involved in the FGC or its scene. I've only been recently exposed to it.

But as far as competition goes, I try to take positives out of it (even if I'm super frustrated that I lost).

I used to get mad before but now it's almost non-existent. I just go into practice and practice against whatever opponent move gave me so much trouble until I learn to defend against it. (All that practice's implementation in an actual future match is another story. :p)

But yeah, maybe these people can train themselves to whiff punish hopkicks or something if they know the opponent is going to abuse them. I really don't even know what to say B/c I'm not as knowledgeable on Tekken as these top players so I always leave the possibility open for me being wrong on all of this.

Also, good work on that early Tekken training. :)


TBH with you, those guys are just pissed that us Americans won't reach the level of Koreans soon enough. Which is kinda funny since on DR days when we can hold ourselves, they are basically saying to noobs to suck it up... Now all of the sudden they don't man up this time...

(There is no excuse... the game teaches you to have a different mindset and skillset now compared to the past games. People like runitblack who is described by rip to "good at learning things on the fly" says basically the skill needed for this game).

Which is another set of rants I will write someday, I gotta wait until the next AtP Live when Rickstah and the others say about things.
 

AAK

Member
I was playing Tekken DR a few days ago at an offline gather.

Wow was that game simple.
I didn't have fun
 
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