Tekken Tag Tournament 2 |OT| Awaiting the "Final Battle"
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NinthPixel
Member
Well, think about this. How many slides did you do with Lee or Law? Not very many, why is that? You could pressed that advantage that I was looking to respect, but you never did. You also poked a lot with Bob, but those pokes never seemed to have a purpose. If you noticed with my pokes, you often got whiff punished. It really wasn't a case of lacking patience. There were several move sequences I used that you had plenty of patience against, but you never caught on to punish my predictability. Ultimately, it was a case of you not really playing against an opponent and thereby not playing Tekken.
You're gonna have to give me time to think about this.
I'm puzzled because basically I've been playing this way for about a year and no wonder why I have not progressed in this game. We should play again soon.
Basically Boutdown, it's similar to advice that I gave you a couple of times way back in this thread. Your decision making seems to be more based on your own tendencies rather than actually reading your opponent.
Your reaction times are pretty solid, your whiff punishing is much better than it used to be, and you sometimes have some decent intuition on when to duck and launch punish.
The problem is the way that you put this all together typically looks like "Oh I'm just going to duck here just in case he/she throws a high."
In my opinion, this actually works out better for certain characters more than others. Nina for example can get away with that at a much higher level than most characters, but you still don't want to fall for that trap.
What you need to be focused on getting better at however, is "I'm going to duck here, because I KNOW that he/she is going to throw a high."
So basically, you need to get the hang of actually reading your opponent better rather than just running your usual business on them. While you can gain great success in playing that way, you will hit that intermediate wall that so many players (like me) run into at full speed and will have to struggle to get over.
Your reaction times are pretty solid, your whiff punishing is much better than it used to be, and you sometimes have some decent intuition on when to duck and launch punish.
The problem is the way that you put this all together typically looks like "Oh I'm just going to duck here just in case he/she throws a high."
In my opinion, this actually works out better for certain characters more than others. Nina for example can get away with that at a much higher level than most characters, but you still don't want to fall for that trap.
What you need to be focused on getting better at however, is "I'm going to duck here, because I KNOW that he/she is going to throw a high."
So basically, you need to get the hang of actually reading your opponent better rather than just running your usual business on them. While you can gain great success in playing that way, you will hit that intermediate wall that so many players (like me) run into at full speed and will have to struggle to get over.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Didn't you almost win a tournament? On your place I'd strengthen even more what I'm already strong at rather then trying to radically change play styles.
But your call.
Manny Dicks? What'd you do to deserve that? Or is it because of the whole "I'm going to sub if you do this but didn't" thing?
It seemed like it was in jest. Aris, like most people apparently, seems to really like saying my name out loud, so while I was playing him in one of the match ups, I think someone in chat said it sounded like that, and it caught on. I wasn't offended. I was amused actually.
NinthPixel
Member
Manny
It seems being jested in Aris stream is approval. You beat the beard man or at least pissed him off in said game. I have lost count of my nicknames on stream, even though none have really stuck.
GrayFoxPL
Where was it asked of BoutDown to change styles? Winning a tournament is also not the end of the journey. I have won a tournament, but I continue in a process of growth. When fighting games have nothing to offer me in mental or physical enlightenment. I will move on.
It seems being jested in Aris stream is approval. You beat the beard man or at least pissed him off in said game. I have lost count of my nicknames on stream, even though none have really stuck.
GrayFoxPL
Where was it asked of BoutDown to change styles? Winning a tournament is also not the end of the journey. I have won a tournament, but I continue in a process of growth. When fighting games have nothing to offer me in mental or physical enlightenment. I will move on.
It's all gravy man. I took no offense to any of it. I've been watching Aris' stuff long enough to know what the deal is. I actually chuckled a bit.
By the way, a reminder for everyone. Mr. Naps is gonna be on ATP live tonight to talk about his trip to Japan where he had a chance to play some Tekken 7. It'll be on at 12 AM EST.
Lol hearing Aris rant against ninthpixel in those GTA races is always hilarious, you're his demon.
Oh shit Naps is on there tonight? Awesome!
Oh shit Naps is on there tonight? Awesome!
MikeBreezy92
Member
Speaking of GTAV, Pixel you next gen yet?
FormallyFamicom
Member
>_>
I'm always picking secondary/tertiary characters. Sometimes I want to just play for fun and not always be competitive.
But I will take note of this when I play against you in the future.
I'm glad you weren't offended because I'm laughing over here. lolololol
NinthPixel
Member
MikeBreezy
Yeah, I have been making Aris bald by beating him so much in GTA5 Races on PS4.
Sayah
I said it was a problem of mine. But I mean, would you play people for an hour who are just doing Jack's jump up unblockable all day. With no care in the world. There is having fun with other characters, and then there is just wasting people's time. I pretty much have to force myself to join other people's games, because I have seen it too much. I work and only have so much free time, stop wasting it.
Yeah, I have been making Aris bald by beating him so much in GTA5 Races on PS4.
Sayah
I said it was a problem of mine. But I mean, would you play people for an hour who are just doing Jack's jump up unblockable all day. With no care in the world. There is having fun with other characters, and then there is just wasting people's time. I pretty much have to force myself to join other people's games, because I have seen it too much. I work and only have so much free time, stop wasting it.
Terareflection
Member
Everyone plays when I am not around. It's a curse.
MikeBreezy92
Member
So Naps says that T7 is T6/TR, new systems are pretty much non-issues. In the build they played almost everything was copied and pasted from TR frame wise. Moves that were invincible in TR are hell punishable even though they're normal moves. Because of this, its of course going to change and says he already saw stuff in the new trailer they couldn't do in the build they played.
Guessed this as much as far as the new mechanics being none issue and it being a serious take a TR.
Fuck Floats I'm out...
Guessed this as much as far as the new mechanics being none issue and it being a serious take a TR.
Fuck Floats I'm out...
FormallyFamicom
Member
Not yet. The new PS3/PS4 sticks MadCatz is making are very mod-friendly and should house one of the Crown levers with ease. Beyond that, the KE sticks MadCatz makes are PS3 only, but if you believe game developers will be thoughtful enough to allow for backwards compatible accessories with future PS4 games then you can take a chance on that.
MikeBreezy92
Member
I wasn't expecting Naps to go in like that.
Not too disappointed about T7 though. I kinda figured from what we saw how it was turning out.
Like Naps said though just chill till arcade and take these location tests with a grain o' salt
NinthPixel
Member
They did not mention the biggest difference so far with Tekken 6 to Tekken 7, and what I believe was the biggest draw to Tekken Revolution. The character count will do more for Tekken than any system mechanic or simplification. As sad as it will be to see the final roster. If Tekken manages to give us 40 characters or less, that will do a lot for those not onboard to make it a life's work to be a good Tekken player.
In regards to Aris, I agree with Naps. It is almost painful for me to play Tag 2 compared to Solo Tekken's. When I get real down about it, I pop coins into the local Tekken 5 DR machine where I work, and revive my absolute love for Tekken. That said, I have still adapted to the Tag 2 system. The hardest thing to adapt too was finding a character other than Xiaoyu to play. And going forward it is what I thank Tag 2 for. I needed to be forced to find fun in other characters. Now Steve and Raven are super fun to me. I no longer feel like I couldn't go on in Tekken if Xiaoyu is removed.
In regards to Aris, I agree with Naps. It is almost painful for me to play Tag 2 compared to Solo Tekken's. When I get real down about it, I pop coins into the local Tekken 5 DR machine where I work, and revive my absolute love for Tekken. That said, I have still adapted to the Tag 2 system. The hardest thing to adapt too was finding a character other than Xiaoyu to play. And going forward it is what I thank Tag 2 for. I needed to be forced to find fun in other characters. Now Steve and Raven are super fun to me. I no longer feel like I couldn't go on in Tekken if Xiaoyu is removed.
I'm going to defend Tekken 7 here.
The thing is, at Mr. Naps's level, Tekken 7 is going to play exactly the same as Tekken 6 plus the truncated okizeme... same way Tekken Revolution did.
BUT... if someone was to ask somebody like kirblar or Karsticles what their impression would be from playing TTT2 to T7, you'd get worlds of difference in their responses compared to Mr. Naps.
Hence, the goal of T7 is pretty much to get as many new players as possible. Unfortunately the veterans will have to simply deal with a neutered version of a game they've played and mastered years ago. I suppose Namco understands that it's impossible to balance while making both sides happy and make a fighting game that lies within the budget they have set for themselves. Who knows what the general effect is going to be. Should be interesting.
Also found JDCR's anecdotes very intriguing. I had NO idea that the Korean Tekken scene was in the precarious position it was in. Maybe the situation in Asia really isn't all that different for Tekken compared to NA/Europe. It really does seem like Lucky Chloe is the desperation character Namco had to throw in to appeal to a new market.
The thing is, at Mr. Naps's level, Tekken 7 is going to play exactly the same as Tekken 6 plus the truncated okizeme... same way Tekken Revolution did.
BUT... if someone was to ask somebody like kirblar or Karsticles what their impression would be from playing TTT2 to T7, you'd get worlds of difference in their responses compared to Mr. Naps.
Hence, the goal of T7 is pretty much to get as many new players as possible. Unfortunately the veterans will have to simply deal with a neutered version of a game they've played and mastered years ago. I suppose Namco understands that it's impossible to balance while making both sides happy and make a fighting game that lies within the budget they have set for themselves. Who knows what the general effect is going to be. Should be interesting.
Also found JDCR's anecdotes very intriguing. I had NO idea that the Korean Tekken scene was in the precarious position it was in. Maybe the situation in Asia really isn't all that different for Tekken compared to NA/Europe. It really does seem like Lucky Chloe is the desperation character Namco had to throw in to appeal to a new market.
What?
FormallyFamicom
Member
An hour and 45 mins? lol. naaaaah.
Have to go to sleep.
No, the video jumps to the bitch calling, it's 2 minutes long.
Just watched it.
LOL Aris pissed at TTT2. That was hilarious.
I understand TTT2 can be frustrating game but the fact that he called it not a good competitive game.....dayum.
Do you think it is?
MikeBreezy92
Member
I'm not willing to go that far but at the same time I think there was a lot of hyperbole from Aris' side(which in hindsight fucked him over during the cross assualt thingie., I think what he's saying is that it is too variable heavy and too loaded.
Watch his Tekken streams from time to time and he'll speak on it.
The term "good competitive game" is so open to interpretation that it doesn't mean anything to say it by itself
Can the game be taken seriously? Is it humanly possible to get good at it? Of course
Can it also be a pain in the ass? Can it be mind-numbing to try to learn it? Does anything in the game ever feel random, like it shouldn't have been there? Absolutely
And that still doesn't define a good or bad "competitive game"
You let the competition prove it
Can the game be taken seriously? Is it humanly possible to get good at it? Of course
Can it also be a pain in the ass? Can it be mind-numbing to try to learn it? Does anything in the game ever feel random, like it shouldn't have been there? Absolutely
And that still doesn't define a good or bad "competitive game"
You let the competition prove it
Aris getting owned by Jimmy was one thing... but the most important thing was Jimmy's impressions of Tekken 7. It's a long discussion but it's worth the listen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f253IhKVmDc#t=3322
NinthPixel
Member
By Aris' definition, poker is not a good competitive game. However, I understand where he is coming from. It often feels like the TTT2 works against the better player. You are constantly trying to prevent comeback measures to the point of absurdity. From the start of the round, you are already in kill range against several over powered teams. And most of those over powered teams can effectively be used by eight year olds.
Tekken has quite the learning curve, but that curve turns into a fork. You either go the way that makes that curve even tighter with difficult characters or you go the way that is practically straight with easy characters. And it irritates me to no end to see Namco be completely blind to that fallacy.
News flash, an overpowered easy character is not limited to new players. You are not banned from using Bob because you are now a good player. No offense to Bob players, but I am not exactly jumping for joy to lose to that fatso's antics. I could write several books on how to play Ling Xiaoyu and my journey in Tekken through her eyes. Yet, I have to use every ounce of IQ that I have to beat characters that make Street Fighter characters look deep.
I knew what I signed up for when I picked a petite little school girl, but I sorely miss how Tekken rewarded dedication. I actually welcome Tekken 7 becoming simple on a system wide basis. I honestly hated refloats, there is plenty of ways to make oki rewarding without making noobs feel like there are infinite combos in Tekken. However, including character after character with a high power to low skill output just leaves me depressed and sad.
Edit: I would have brought up Jack, but more people relate to Bob. I respect Anakin and all, but Jack should be the first character confirmed to be removed from Tekken 7. You'd have to go download MUGEN to find an easier and more powerful character than Jack. DiveKick characters take more skill than that robot.
Tekken has quite the learning curve, but that curve turns into a fork. You either go the way that makes that curve even tighter with difficult characters or you go the way that is practically straight with easy characters. And it irritates me to no end to see Namco be completely blind to that fallacy.
News flash, an overpowered easy character is not limited to new players. You are not banned from using Bob because you are now a good player. No offense to Bob players, but I am not exactly jumping for joy to lose to that fatso's antics. I could write several books on how to play Ling Xiaoyu and my journey in Tekken through her eyes. Yet, I have to use every ounce of IQ that I have to beat characters that make Street Fighter characters look deep.
I knew what I signed up for when I picked a petite little school girl, but I sorely miss how Tekken rewarded dedication. I actually welcome Tekken 7 becoming simple on a system wide basis. I honestly hated refloats, there is plenty of ways to make oki rewarding without making noobs feel like there are infinite combos in Tekken. However, including character after character with a high power to low skill output just leaves me depressed and sad.
Edit: I would have brought up Jack, but more people relate to Bob. I respect Anakin and all, but Jack should be the first character confirmed to be removed from Tekken 7. You'd have to go download MUGEN to find an easier and more powerful character than Jack. DiveKick characters take more skill than that robot.
Have a Nice Day
Member
A larger picture would be better.
Hwoarang comparison. The jump from T6 to TTT2 was pretty big.
FormallyFamicom
Member
Pack it up.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Latest ATP stream was fun. Jimmy basically confirmed things I thought about T7. That the oki has been neutered for noob needs and lack of rejuggling gets on nerves of serious players, that toe kick rollback is safe as fuck, that the game is copy pasted, at least in all playable builds, and that the jump is much smaller then between all other Tekken sequels. Still it's kinda eye opening he got pretty much bored of T7 after just 10 matches.
It was kinda funny Aris going from damage control to being totally disappointed with Jimmy's info on T7 then going back to damage control. "That's maybe what we need?"
Only optimistic thing about T7 is they are already planning unspecified numbers of updates to arcade release so the maybe very final Tekken 7: Darksake Restoration +Alpha will have in all the new stuff, remade characters and new moves to be worthy calling it: "The Real Tekken 7".
That only kinda sucks for TxSF. With base system just ready, the game is on hold for even more years, because probably after finishing T7 updates they'll have to finish Pokken and it's updates. Just "Base system" after 4-5 years and developing several other games announced much later. Still shaking my head on this nonsense.
But those Green Dad Arcade Sticks and JDCR's reactions really cracked me up.
Also Bitch Calling's ending was the best.
Just drop Bob and pain is over.
It was kinda funny Aris going from damage control to being totally disappointed with Jimmy's info on T7 then going back to damage control. "That's maybe what we need?"
Only optimistic thing about T7 is they are already planning unspecified numbers of updates to arcade release so the maybe very final Tekken 7: Darksake Restoration +Alpha will have in all the new stuff, remade characters and new moves to be worthy calling it: "The Real Tekken 7".
That only kinda sucks for TxSF. With base system just ready, the game is on hold for even more years, because probably after finishing T7 updates they'll have to finish Pokken and it's updates. Just "Base system" after 4-5 years and developing several other games announced much later. Still shaking my head on this nonsense.
But those Green Dad Arcade Sticks and JDCR's reactions really cracked me up
.Also Bitch Calling's ending was the best.
Just drop Bob and pain is over.
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