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[DR2K]

Is that surprising lol? I think Tekken is the hardest fighting franchise to get into hands down.

Pretty much, and combot does a shitty job of teaching Tekken. Okizeme options and movement are barely covered in the combot section.

Tekken Tag 2 has nothing for the casual, no Tekken bowling, vollyball, campaign, story, etc. . . the combat system is incredibly difficult and poorly explained. It's also mostly unchanged minus the tag mechanic, but the tag mechanics were also poorly explained.

 

[SegaManAU]

Loving this game so far.

Best Tekken since 3.

Much better than 6, Feels faster and more fluid. My only complaint is the slight pause sometimes during matches. Feels like a slight pause for loading. 360 version, anyone else notice it?

 

[Sayah]

Is that surprising lol? I think Tekken is the hardest fighting franchise to get into hands down.

I wouldn't say the hardest. But yeah, Tekken takes some time to get good but it pays off in the end.

Sadly, the state of the game industry = "I suck at this game, -3 points."

Loving this game so far.

Best Tekken since 3.

Much better than 6, Feels faster and more fluid. My only complaint is the slight pause sometimes during matches. Feels like a slight pause for loading. 360 version, anyone else notice it?

Install the game if you have it on 360. Might help with the problems you're having.

 

[Watevaman]

Tekken is really the only game I don't mind sucking at. It's so much fun.

 

[Dereck]

I play Ghost Battle on Ultra Hard for about an hour a day, out of all of those matches I get about 9-10 gold Ghost Battles, and then I unlock clothes, get money, and sometimes ending movies. There has to be a faster way to get more ending movies without playing Arcade Mode with everyone.

 

[Master Thespian]

I wouldn't say the hardest.

In terms of 3D fighters it most certainly is.

 

[Vice]

I haven't bought a Tekken game since 3. This is pretty fun so far.

 

[Chavelo]

In terms of 3D fighters it most certainly is.

:lol

Virtua Fighter 5 says hi.

 

[Master Thespian]

:lol

Virtua Fighter 5 says hi.

Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown says "bye".

Multiple throw escapes are gone, non-catch throws are always beaten by attacks, the importance of esoteric techniques has been reduced, sidestep is digital and works every time when used correctly (between 4 choices), movement is much easier than Tekken's, no tag, no meter management, 1/3 of the characters to remember.

 

[DEATH™]

Is that surprising lol? I think Tekken is the hardest fighting franchise to get into hands down.

Depend on where you are... when you grew up in a striving arcade, It won't matter how "hard" it is, you will play because everybody around you plays, and they play great...

 

[Chavelo]

Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown says "bye".

Multiple throw escapes are gone, non-catch throws are always beaten by attacks, the importance of esoteric techniques has been reduced, sidestep is digital and works every time when used correctly (between 4 choices), movement is much easier than Tekken's, no tag, no meter management, 1/3 of the characters to remember.

Dat dedicated block button says "nope".

 

[Sp3eD]

I hope the 6 new characters come bundled with the 4 unreleased maps within the next month.

We will probably have to wait for Wii U Launch week though

 

[SkylineRKR]

Dat dedicated block button says "nope".

That didn't make SCV an impossible game.

I think TTT2 is more difficult than VF5 FS as well. There is just more to do and remember, and there is tag battles.

 

[Doomshine]

Dat dedicated block button says "nope".

So... SoulCalibur 5 is in fact the hardest 3d fighter.

EDIT: beaten.

 

[Master Thespian]

Dat dedicated block button says "nope".

That's all you've got? lol

The thing that makes it easier to cancel attacks/strings and buffer moves from guard? Speaking of buffering, VF (as well as DOA and SC) has a more generous input buffer than Tekken.

 

[Sayah]

In terms of 3D fighters it most certainly is.

Yeah, I found KOFXIII and Blazblue harder to get into but as far as 3D fighters go, probably, you're right.

 

[QisTopTier]

Dat dedicated block button says "nope".

What? Are you serious?

 

[DR2K]

What? Are you serious?

MK officially harder to learn than Tekken.

 

[vocab]

Dat dedicated block button says "nope".

Holding back and down back technically is a dedicated block button. I don't get the complaints about a block button.

 

[Chavelo]

It's not really a complaint about pressing a button to block, this discussion started on what 3D games we find "harder" (which of course is nothing related on which game is more fun/deep). Thespian does bring some good points into this, but I dunno what DR2K and QisTopTier are getting at. D:

 

[Skilletor]

Why does Hwaorang have a bajillion moves?

It's not really a complaint about pressing a button to block, this discussion started on what 3D games we find "harder" (which of course is nothing related on which game is more fun/deep). Thespian does bring some good points into this, but I dunno what DR2K and QisTopTier are getting at. D:

You implied a dedicated block button made VF more difficult than other fighters, by that logic MK is more difficult than other games since it, too, has a block button.

 

[FormallyFamicom]

I love the block button. But SC2 is probably my most played fighting game. :x

 

[DR2K]

It's not really a complaint about pressing a button to block, this discussion started on what 3D games we find harder. Thespian does bring some good points into this, but I dunno what DR2K and QisTopTier are getting at. D:

Every 3D fighter uses a block button, but you can also block with holding back in DOA and VF.

 

[LTWheels]

Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown says "bye".

Multiple throw escapes are gone, non-catch throws are always beaten by attacks, the importance of esoteric techniques has been reduced, sidestep is digital and works every time when used correctly (between 4 choices), movement is much easier than Tekken's, no tag, no meter management, 1/3 of the characters to remember.

The changes to FS were for the better. Got rid of stupid stuff. It retains its high level of depth and yet is very accessible to newcomers. Very difficult to build a fighting game to achieve both these aims without one suffering. Tutorial is excellent as well.

If your looking to get into a deep/complex fighting game as a new player to the genre, it's the game I recommend.

 

[zlatko]

I agree with what people are saying in here about TTT2's difficulty. I can't think of any other fighter that has this much knowledge to absorb from movement, to what characters are capable of, to even knowing what kind of stage you are on. It goes on and on.

To anyone saying VF5 and SC5 are more difficult to master than TTT2 you are high as hell. I tend to be fairly ass/casualish in my prowess in fighters, but even those games online I was able to maintain an over 50% win ratio. T6 and TTT2? Not even damn close. The game is hella daunting, but it is fun so that makes it fine for me to get bodied.

 

[FallingEdge]

Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown says "bye".

Multiple throw escapes are gone, non-catch throws are always beaten by attacks, the importance of esoteric techniques has been reduced, sidestep is digital and works every time when used correctly (between 4 choices), movement is much easier than Tekken's, no tag, no meter management, 1/3 of the characters to remember.

- Throws are seen as more dangerous now than ever. Throw breaks are easier in Tekken.
- It makes sense that attacks beat out throws
- Sidestepping and movement makes sense in VF. As a 3D fighter, I should be able to sidestep a linear attack easily.
- VF entire game isn't based on landing a launcher.
- Oki game in VF > Tekken
- Tag or meter management doesn't mean it is less complex
- Less characters doesn't mean it is less complex

List is opinions and just done quickly but I find TTT2 a much harder game for me due to awkward movement and that I'm starting square one as opposed to VF which I understand a lot more.. If I had it my way, all 3D fighters would have movement/sidestepping like VF. TTT2 is a great game as is VF. Still believe that VF is the better and is the best fighting game out there today.

 

[danmaku]

The changes to FS were for the better. Got rid of stupid stuff. It retains its high level of depth and yet is very accessible to newcomers. Very difficult to build a fighting game to achieve both these aims without one suffering. Tutorial is excellent as well.

If your looking to get into a deep/complex fighting game as a new player to the genre, it's the game I recommend.

Yeah, it's crazy to think the the hardest, less friendly game is also the more popular. Usually it's the opposite, but I guess having likable characters/lore and the association with the Playstation brand did the miracle.

cut

I find TTT2 a much harder game for me due to awkward movement and that I'm starting square one as opposed to VF which I understand a lot more.. If I had it my way, all 3D fighters would have movement/sidestepping like VF. TTT2 is a great game as is VF. Still believe that VF is the better and is the best fighting game out there today.

No one was talking about quality, just difficulty. Tekken being harder doesn't make it deeper or better... just harder.

 

[QisTopTier]

It depends on which character you use, but I would say it's not about landing a launcher and more about using attacks that wont get you launched or put in a juggle state off a jab counter.

Of course some characters get past this by having fast ass attacks that lead to launches

 

[Doomshine]

- Throws are seen as more dangerous now than ever. Throw breaks are easier in Tekken.
- It makes sense that attacks beat out throws
- Sidestepping and movement makes sense in VF. As a 3D fighter, I should be able to sidestep a linear attack easily.
- VF entire game isn't based on landing a launcher.
- Oki game in VF > Tekken
- Tag or meter management doesn't mean it is less complex
- Less characters doesn't mean it is less complex

We are talking about which game is harder to learn, not which is better.

 

[Skilletor]

The changes to FS were for the better. Got rid of stupid stuff. It retains its high level of depth and yet is very accessible to newcomers. Very difficult to build a fighting game to achieve both these aims without one suffering. Tutorial is excellent as well.

If your looking to get into a deep/complex fighting game as a new player to the genre, it's the game I recommend.

I would recommend Tekken, even though I agree it's more difficult, since it has the larger player base and it would be easier to find people at your own skill level as well as pros from which to get help.

 

[Fantasmo]

What they should have done instead of Combot is have a Training mode ala Street Fighter 4, complete with combos, wall combos, bounds, punishers, tag techniques and tag combos.. for every character.

It should have also included trap escape techniques.

This way you'd actually be able to learn the clutch stuff.

The reason I suck at this is not what everyone wanted to dog me on many pages back. It's not enough to know a couple characters. You basically have to at least have a basic working knowledge of the entire roster (which I do, I'd say I know enough to get by with at least 20 characters in a non tag Tekken, and know about 4 pretty well, not pro standards but I really remember a lot of moves and strategies), and also you have to seriously practice not just regular combos but wall combos and tag combos for anyone you intend on using.

The tag system and wall combos are unskippable elements to this game, unlike say, earlier Tekkens or Street Fighter where a little strategy could go a long way. You cannot survive in TTT2 without knowing the advanced stuff, if your opponent has a good handle on it, no matter how well you know the rest. They're not an extension of the game, they're a core part of it, and there's no way around it if your opponent has a grip on it.

It's extremely overwhelming if you haven't followed the series from day 1 and I agree with all those above who say Tekken, at this point, has become the hardest 3d fighter, from scratch, to get into.

 

[Zephyrus]

Hopefully I get it tomorrow. Mailman didn't bring it today.

Then off to still be one of portugal's best.

 

[FallingEdge]

No one was talking about quality, just difficulty. Tekken being harder doesn't make it deeper or better... just harder.

We are talking about which game is harder to learn, not which is better.

I think it just depends on what you learned to play first. Going from TTT2 to VF is just as hard as going from VF to TTT2.

 

[alstein]

I agree with what people are saying in here about TTT2's difficulty. I can't think of any other fighter that has this much knowledge to absorb from movement, to what characters are capable of, to even knowing what kind of stage you are on. It goes on and on.

To anyone saying VF5 and SC5 are more difficult to master than TTT2 you are high as hell. I tend to be fairly ass/casualish in my prowess in fighters, but even those games online I was able to maintain an over 50% win ratio. T6 and TTT2? Not even damn close. The game is hella daunting, but it is fun so that makes it fine for me to get bodied.

Tekken requires more execution and knowledge, and probably more execution skill. I think VF requires more reading of your opponent.

Two very different games that have little in common. It's like comparing GG to ST.

Also, you folks saying VF is better- now's the time to be playing VF online to keep it alive.

 

[Master Thespian]

The changes to FS were for the better.

No arguments here. I think Tekken would benefit from some minor tweaks and streamlining to it's system without losing any of it's depth.

 

[Doomshine]

I think it just depends on what you learned to play first. Going from TTT2 to VF is just as hard as going from VF to TTT2.

I just don't understand how you can think the oki game in VF is harder and how having more characters, tag system and meter doesn't make it harder to learn.

 

[notworksafe]

The importance of proper movement in Tekken combined with the obnoxious difficulty of it for new people makes that game harder to learn in my mind.

However dealing with throws and counters are harder in VF imo so maybe that makes them even.

 

[LTWheels]

Yeah, it's crazy to think the the hardest, less friendly game is also the more popular. Usually it's the opposite, but I guess having likable characters/lore and the association with the Playstation brand did the miracle.

I also don't think it helped that VF in the past has been so bare boned. The only story in the game is in the manual. No endings or anything. It's hard for the game to build up the personalities of the characters. Makes attachment very difficult. I remember the mad excite around the first two VF games when they were revealed.

VF is still very popular in the Japanese arcades. As mentioned above is probably why there was no console popularity. As well of the stupid myth that VF is the most technical fight. It's quite easy to learn, and to become an intermediate. It's mastering it what is difficult.

I'm pretty excited with VF characters in DOA. If another VF game ever gets made, I hope they return the favour. Would love a full on VF DOA crossover.

Hopefully my Tag will arrive tomorrow.

 

[Skilletor]

Tekken requires more execution and knowledge, and probably more execution skill. I think VF requires more reading of your opponent.

Two very different games that have little in common. It's like comparing GG to ST.

Also, you folks saying VF is better- now's the time to be playing VF online to keep it alive.

Yeah, outside of Akira, execution in VF is pretty easy for the most part. There are a few jf type moves, but on the whole it's pretty easy.

I honestly think what turns casuals off of VF is that it's bland, visually. The character designs are really "normal," there's nothing distinct in the game like Mishima hair or Blanka or Dhalsim. The characters all fight normal and are true to real life for the most part. For a person watching, that's pretty dull. Not exciting at all. You have to know something about VF to know why a match is fun to watch.

 

[Doomshine]

New LUYG tutorial btw, combos:

http://www.levelupyourgame.com/2012/09/13/luyg-tekken-tag-tournament-2-tutorial-4-combos/

 

[rvy]

Hopefully I get it tomorrow. Mailman didn't bring it today.

Then off to still be one of portugal's best.

Where are you getting it from?

 

[FallingEdge]

I just don't understand how you can think the oki game in VF is harder and how having more characters, tag system and meter doesn't make it harder to learn.

I can always learn characters and the tag system. That just comes with experience. What I struggle with the most is the overall system. How movement works, mechanics, wake up, etc. Stepping is so foreign to me in this game. It just doesn't feel natural and will take a while for me to fully understand.

 

[Master Thespian]

- Throws are seen as more dangerous now than ever. Throw breaks are easier in Tekken.
- It makes sense that attacks beat out throws
- Sidestepping and movement makes sense in VF. As a 3D fighter, I should be able to sidestep a linear attack easily.
- VF entire game isn't based on landing a launcher.
- Oki game in VF > Tekken
- Tag or meter management doesn't mean it is less complex
- Less characters doesn't mean it is less complex

List is opinions and just done quickly but I find TTT2 a much harder game for me due to awkward movement and that I'm starting square one as opposed to VF which I understand a lot more.. If I had it my way, all 3D fighters would have movement/sidestepping like VF. TTT2 is a great game as is VF. Still believe that VF is the better and is the best fighting game out there today.

You've gotten off onto a completely separate tangent about which is better, which is completely up to someone's opinion. I was saying why TTT2 is harder to learn than VF5FS.

To address your points:
-Howso? Preference.
-They're easier to understand, but digital doesn't necessarily make more sense than analog.
-Neither is Tekken's. Pokes in Tekken do more damage than any of the other games. I'm not a fan of the amount of time spent in the air once juggled, but it is what it is.
-Howso? Preference.
-It means there's one less thing you have to worry about.
-It means there are 40 less movelists you have to worry about.

 

[LTWheels]

Tekken requires more execution and knowledge, and probably more execution skill. I think VF requires more reading of your opponent.

Two very different games that have little in common. It's like comparing GG to ST.

Also, you folks saying VF is better- now's the time to be playing VF online to keep it alive.

I remember someone describing VF about being more about knowing what your opponent is going to do than what the character can do compared to most fighting games. VF characters are versatile and there is no one set away to play a character, so you can get away not knowing the match up if you know the opponent.

No arguments here. I think Tekken would benefit from some minor tweaks and streamlining to it's system without losing any of it's depth.

I personally would like to see the next Tekken game as a semi-reboot. Redo the animations of the characters, and take a good look at the mechanics thinking what really is necessary and what can be cut and changed.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I find VF harder that tekken. It's probably because I started out playing tekken 2 and that's my base for 3d games.

The way it moves , the pace, everything. I feel uncomfortable playing VF. I haven't played tekken really since DR. Barely played 6. TTT2 feels like coming back home.

SC still my fav though.

I am playing solo and am running into a good number of solo guys in ranked. I like it. Heh.

 

[FallingEdge]

snip.

Sorry, we can take it to PMs as I don't want to derail this thread any further and where we can discuss this like gentlemen =)

 

[Master Thespian]

Yeah, outside of Akira, execution in VF is pretty easy for the most part. There are a few jf type moves, but on the whole it's pretty easy.

I honestly think what turns casuals off of VF is that it's bland, visually. The character designs are really "normal," there's nothing distinct in the game like Mishima hair or Blanka or Dhalsim. The characters all fight normal and are true to real life for the most part. For a person watching, that's pretty dull. Not exciting at all. You have to know something about VF to know why a match is fun to watch.

The bottom line is that fluff (stories, voice work, etc) isn't important to how good a fighting game is, it is important to how many casuals give it a try and become invested in it. Every pro player was once a casual, so you can't ignore them if you want your game to have strong sales and a thriving community.

Sorry, we can take it to PMs as I don't want to derail this thread any further and where we can discuss this like gentlemen =)

We really should just start a "VF/TK/SC/DOA Garbage Time Comparison: OT".

 

[Master Thespian]

.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

Who can urinate the highest, the farthest, or the most accurately? The FGC and its need for worship and validation at its finest...

 

[Skilletor]

Who can urinate the highest, the farthest, or the most accurately? The FGC and its need for worship and validation at its finest...

You sound like a bitter person who looks at any form of argument in the "FGC" to prove a point nobody is trying to make. I see nothing but a civil discussion.

The bottom line is that fluff (stories, voice work, etc) isn't important to how good a fighting game is, it is important to how many casuals give it a try and become invested in it. Every pro player was once a casual, so you can't ignore them if you want your game to have strong sales and a thriving community.

Agreed.

Want to fight more Paul. Stupid deathfist.