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[Ferrio]

Kind of like the evolution of the series amirite?

Care for an example of how the game has changed dramatically? It's been pretty consistent in how it plays since 3.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Care for an example of how the game has changed dramatically? It's been pretty consistent in how it plays since 3.

Tekken 4

Spoiler

:lol

 

[Calibrated]

Any euro 360 players want a few games? I'm REALLY bad at this and need to practice but not in ranked because I've lost about 80% of my games lol. I don't care if i lose all the time I just want to get better and learn to play the game properly. It really is infuriating when youre dominating someone then they tag in Eddy and proceed to press buttons with their feet and win

GT: Calibrated

 

[Dereck]

Tekken 4

Spoiler

:lol

Bound

 

[zlatko]

Speaking of defending. The long ass combos gotta go. Either that or give defensive options to juggled and bound players. Fuck off with the "you shouldn't have whiffed that attack" nonsense. Yes, because the whole game should be about jerking around until you land the same boring combos over and over. This is why high level play bores me to watch. Fun for people who get the punishments involved but not so much for everyone else.

Welcome to fighting games in general. What fighter doesn't boil down to(3d or not) trying to open someone up with the same methods until you can land your big ass damage combo?

 

[Kai Dracon]

As far as saying TTT2 has too many characters or such, or Tekken needs an overhaul... in my mind the Tekken Tag games are pretty much endcap collections of everything from a certain era of Tekken. They're supposed to have every character, are pretty much just competitive dream match games.

TTT2 emphasizes this with its sports arena presentation and framing Tekken as sport.

I would imagine that a Tekken 7 would be the game were experimentation and rebooting occurs once again. TTT2 will be here for the next ten years for those who want a super deep, sprawling competitive Tekken package.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Care for an example of how the game has changed dramatically? It's been pretty consistent in how it plays since 3.

Easy. Walls made a big impact and change for the series. As did bound. So if you were even referring to my post when you made that original reply, my only comment involving game changes came in the form of asking for defenses during combos. That is hard to fathom, but extending combos via bouncing them helplessly off the ground taking 50% or more of life isn't? That was a form of changing the game into something it isn't if you ask me.

 

[Ferrio]

Easy. Walls made a big impact and change for the series. As did bound. So if you were even referring to my post when you made that original reply, my only comment involving game changes came in the form of asking for defenses during combos. That is hard to fathom, but extending combos via bouncing them helplessly off the ground taking 50% or more of life isn't? That was a form of changing the game into something it isn't if you ask me.

Ya it added to the combo system, but it wasn't a departure in how the game functioned just added more complexity and options. Isn't like you couldn't do 50% combos pre bound/walls. And your defense for being comboed is exactly that DEFEND.

 

[Hours Left]

Again, I really wouldn't worry about sales. Tekken games usually have very long legs, and the fan base is very fervent. Sales for fighting games are not going to reach any sort of CoD/Halo levels anymore unless it has some sort of break through moment, but that doesn't mean it's a failure.

Plus, Namco still makes crazy bank at the arcades.

 

[Ferrio]

Tekken 4

Spoiler

:lol

Agreed, but that just proves my point. Huge ass combos have been a staple of tekken since tekken 1. Tekken 4 was like the closest departure from that... and look how well received it was.

 

[Doomshine]

Here's digital foundry's analysis of the graphics btw:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tekken-tag-tournament-2-face-off

 

[Sayah]

I lol'd

That whole review is hilarious.

As far as saying TTT2 has too many characters or such, or Tekken needs an overhaul... in my mind the Tekken Tag games are pretty much endcap collections of everything from a certain era of Tekken. They're supposed to have every character, are pretty much just competitive dream match games.

TTT2 emphasizes this with its sports arena presentation and framing Tekken as sport.

I would imagine that a Tekken 7 would be the game were experimentation and rebooting occurs once again. TTT2 will be here for the next ten years for those who want a super deep, sprawling competitive Tekken package.

I like this way of thinking.

Again, I really wouldn't worry about sales. Tekken games usually have very long legs, and the fan base is very fervent. Sales for fighting games are not going to reach any sort of CoD/Halo levels anymore unless it has some sort of break through moment, but that doesn't mean it's a failure.

Plus, Namco still makes crazy bank at the arcades.

Yeah, it will probably have long legs and it will probably meet expectations. Still could be doing better, though, I guess.

 

[weepy]

I assume you mean df1? If you mean doing so after bounding, I don't think it's possible. They are too low at that point to pull off an iSW. Is this a TA combo? What's your other teammate?

Got the notation wrong (uf 3) the knee move. Sorry, lol.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

How much revenue does arcade tekken generate? Do they ever state this in earnings reports ?

I know it's no.1 for a long time, but what does that mean money wise?

 

[Master Thespian]

As far as saying TTT2 has too many characters or such, or Tekken needs an overhaul... in my mind the Tekken Tag games are pretty much endcap collections of everything from a certain era of Tekken. They're supposed to have every character, are pretty much just competitive dream match games.

TTT2 emphasizes this with its sports arena presentation and framing Tekken as sport.

I would imagine that a Tekken 7 would be the game were experimentation and rebooting occurs once again. TTT2 will be here for the next ten years for those who want a super deep, sprawling competitive Tekken package.

Completely agree. My suggestions were more for moving forward.

 

[mephie]

How much revenue does arcade tekken generate? Do they ever state this in earnings reports ?

I know it's no.1 for a long time, but what does that mean money wise?

They have stated that the arcade profit is usually equivalent to the profit from the home versions. Tekken tends to generate double the revenue that the sales figures show.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

They have stated that the arcade profit is usually equivalent to the profit from the home versions. Tekken tends to generate double the revenue that the sales figures show.

Do you know how it is split up? Is it all from staight up board sales? From the arcades they operate?

Do they lease the boards now?

So basically the arcade version is another sku basically in terms of revenue?

 

[DR2K]

As far as saying TTT2 has too many characters or such, or Tekken needs an overhaul... in my mind the Tekken Tag games are pretty much endcap collections of everything from a certain era of Tekken. They're supposed to have every character, are pretty much just competitive dream match games.

TTT2 emphasizes this with its sports arena presentation and framing Tekken as sport.

I would imagine that a Tekken 7 would be the game were experimentation and rebooting occurs once again. TTT2 will be here for the next ten years for those who want a super deep, sprawling competitive Tekken package.

Fanbase won't let it happen. Problem is it keeps getting smaller with every iteration.

-Redesign characters to match the artwork, it's possible.

-Drop the whole every character speaks their own language, it's accurate, but makes little sense whenever there's dialogue between characters.

-Rehaul the entire roster, cut the swaps completely or just make them alternate costumes. Redo older animations.

-Fix movement to be more user friendly like in every other 3D fighter.

-More leniancy with button inputs like every other 3d fighter

-Tone down combos, get rid of bound.

-get rid of rage(does anyone actually like this?)

-Tag should be standard

-Allow for throws to be more useful

Until a major change happens Tekken is going to continue to alienate players with every iteration.

 

[CSX]

They have stated that the arcade profit is usually equivalent to the profit from the home versions. Tekken tends to generate double the revenue that the sales figures show.

Definitely not for Tag 2. They probably made boatloads of money compared to T6 due to namco actually charging arcades on use of machine.

I think the system was something like "pay X amount for 3000 plays on one machine. Once 3000 matches are played on that one machine, then the machine would lock itself till the operator buys more credit for it"

-More leniancy with button inputs like every other 3d fighter

what you mean by leniancy? I mash the inputs all the time and im doing fine. Of course this is not counting Just Frames and all that jazz.

 

[Ferrio]

-More leniancy with button inputs like every other 3d fighter

??? Er? What's not leniant about it?

 

[DR2K]

??? Er? What's not leniant about it?

Simple strings require persice inputs or they won't come out at all. This is not the case with any other 3D fighter.

For example Lili 123, I can press 123 in succession, but if 3 isn't pressed immediately after 2 it simply does nothing.

 

[Ferrio]

Simple strings require persice inputs or they won't come out at all. This is not the case with any other 3D fighter.

No they don't, you can jam on buttons and shit comes out. Hell buffering makes some stuff stupid simple to come out.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Definitely not for Tag 2. They probably made boatloads of money compared to T6 due to namco actually charging arcades on use of machine.

I think the system was something like "pay X amount for 3000 plays on one machine. Once 3000 matches are played on that one machine, then the machine would lock itself till the operator buys more credit for it"

An arcade couldn't have a machine unless they had a proper internet connection, right?

It seemed like a lease. Kinda wack. Forced the operaters hand in how much per play to a degree.

 

[Shouta]

??? Er? What's not leniant about it?

Inputs have to be pretty quick to hit full combos in Tekken compared to say VF. If you aren't inputting the combo the full way through, it's not likely to connect or you'll stop and drop the rest of the combo. It's all or nothing basically.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

Harada don't listen to those delusions. You want easy 3d fighter? Play DoA and leave Tekken to the big boys.

 

[DR2K]

No they don't, you can jam on buttons and shit comes out. Hell buffering makes some stuff stupid simple to come out.

I edited with an example that completely refutes that logic.

Harada don't listen to those delusions. You want easy 3d fighter? Play DoA and leave Tekken to the big boys.

Tekken is overly complicated and for the completely wrong reasons.

 

[Ferrio]

I edited with an example that completely refutes that logic.

123 is hard to you? Holy fuck.

 

[Raonak]

-Drop the whole every character speaks their own language, it's accurate, but makes little sense whenever there's dialogue between characters.

Worst suggestion ever.

 

[Sayah]

Fanbase won't let it happen. Problem is it keeps getting smaller with every iteration.

-Redesign characters to match the artwork, it's possible.
The Tokyo documentary shows why they made the character models the way they did.
-Drop the whole every character speaks their own language, it's accurate, but makes little sense whenever there's dialogue between characters.
Doesn't really matter much to me.
-Rehaul the entire roster, cut the swaps completely or just make them alternate costumes. Redo older animations.
The swaps were added FOR beginner players (plus the fan service). It makes it easier for them to have two tag characters that play identically.

-Fix movement to be more user friendly like in every other 3D fighter.
Movement is a big part of Tekken. Completely disagree with "fixing" movement.
-More leniancy with button inputs like every other 3d fighter
Having a button assigned to each limb is a great setup. Changing button inputs would change the way the game is played.
-Tone down combos, get rid of bound.
No.nooooooo.. How fun are tag combos without bounds?
-get rid of rage(does anyone actually like this?)
Rage is okay.
-Tag should be standard
It will be in future games according to Harada.
-Allow for throws to be more useful
?
Until a major change happens Tekken is going to continue to alienate players with every iteration.

No offense but the changes you are suggesting would turn away the core community supporting the franchise.

 

[Dereck]

The Tokyo documentary shows why they made the character models the way they did.

Link

 

[DR2K]

123 is hard to you? Holy fuck.

Woosh. That wasn't my point. It's an example to show how Tekken's inputs are more difficult. I didn't say it was hard, it just makes very little sense.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

Tekken is overly complicated and for the completely wrong reasons.

Say that with a straight face to Japanese and Korean players and you'll be a laughing stock.

 

[Ferrio]

Woosh. That wasn't my point. It's an example to show how Tekken's inputs are more difficult. I didn't say it was hard, it just makes very little sense.

I don't know what that string actually looks like, but I assume it's that way due to 2's recovery properties, which would make sense.

 

[Raonak]

I'd argue tekken is on par with any other fighter in terms of shrinking fanbase.

It's a problem across the whole genre.

 

[Sayah]

Link

I think DoomShine had linked a Gametrailers video before that explained why the characters were modeled the way they were. Will try to find it. Hold up.

 

[CSX]

Woosh. That wasn't my point. It's an example to show how Tekken's inputs are more difficult. I didn't say it was hard, it just makes very little sense.

lili's 123 is an example of a move that you aren't allowed to delay for mixups. Thats why the game wont let you space out and then do the 3. You gotta commit. You can just mash it out though (1233333333)

an example of a move you are allowed to delay is heihachi's df1,2 and law's junkyard (b2,3,4)

 

[Shouta]

-Allow for throws to be more useful
?

No offense but the changes you are suggesting would turn away the core community supporting the franchise.

I actually generally agree with throws not being terribly useful. But that's true for most fighting games. Only one that ever makes throws dangerous and a core form of attack is VF. In every thing else, it's just an option that's part of your arsenal.

 

[Ferrio]

I actually generally agree with throws not being terribly useful. But that's true for most fighting games. Only one that ever makes throws dangerous and a core form of attack is VF. In every thing else, it's just an option that's part of your arsenal.

Any ARSys game throws are deadly. (Though I haven't played P4U).

 

[DEATH™]

This I don't understand at all. Why aren't the U.S numbers higher than this for a game like this and he did everything the fans asked for. See shit like this is why developers don't really listen to the fans people want but they don't put money down to show for it.

Just go to a big two stream... People think that if it isn't marvel/sf, it's trash...

I think these two are directly related. Tekken could make a couple tweaks that wouldn't kill depth that would help it out a ton.

-Open up basic movement, by either making the dashes bigger or have less recovery, so that backdash cancel isn't necessary to play the game at even a fundamental level. You could still have bdc give more benefits at higher levels. The fact that you essentially need to learn an execution intensive glitch to begin playing the game properly doesn't help.
-Unify the command lists so that throws/throw escapes/recovery/movement always have the same types of button inputs. This helps people to not only learn but remember how to do things with their characters and when under duress. It also lessens the negatives from directional input errors, which are more common than button input errors. So if they mess up on a throw, they still get a throw.
-Going a bit further with the throw game, make the types of throws have the same kinds of inputs. So nearly every basic throw could be 1+3, position change throws would be 2+4, and high damage throws would be 1+2 (they've done a solid job with this one). It would make it so people with slower reflexes could rely on yomi a bit more instead of needing to see throws as much as they do now.

In the end, Tekken makes a shit ton of money in the arcades and there are healthy communities all over the world. I don't think those minor tweaks would stop the money train but it would make the game a bit less intimidating to new console users.

Tried it in T4... BD is removed, focused on SS movement (which is easier), throws have only 1 input (press ~F to make the grab different).

Honestly, every single idea people think tekken needs, I could point them to T4. Reduced chars, simplified throws, movement, everything... and those changes made T4 not feel tekken. It felt like a VF copycat that didn't really copied VF at all, while sacrificing replayability and fun...

Is the game really that hard? If there's people lurking here that are frustrated with the game, ask for help.
Also feel bad for this guy that bought the game and didn't know the online pass was on the back of the manual.

I think this generation is just too spoonfed. Just a little amount of frustration causes rage...

This game IMO captures the spirit of martial arts competitions. The hard training, discipline, mind games, frustration (especially in losses despite working hard) and the glory when you get the win, Tekken completely imitates that. That's what makes this game awesome.

IMHO, Tekken does need a readjustment. I've always been a fan, just not into the competitive "get good or go home" scene. I'm a different breed. I've always enjoyed the art, story aesthetics, character personalities and fighting styles.

But now, there is such a goofy mish-mash of inconsistent and incoherent bullshit that bogs the areas of the series that I'm a fan of down. It also affects the actual depth and learning process for newcomers. I don't have the will or time to learn multiple characters and how to defend against many more. This game needs a massive downscale in the character roster.

And FFS, if anyone says "but fans will be upset because they won't get to play as such and such" again, I will internet slap them. If this were true, explain the mass of players who flock to the new characters when they're available. Explain the excitement artwork of new characters brings. Explain the ability that veteran players have at adopting different characters after mastering their mains. What about new FGs? It's the most retarded complaint.

New art, new story, new fighting styles, refined older characters making up a smaller roster would go a long way. I'm not a competitive player as evidenced by my shit performance online. I just like finding my own combos in practice mode, not defending against potential opponent tactics.

Speaking of defending. The long ass combos gotta go. Either that or give defensive options to juggled and bound players. Fuck off with the "you shouldn't have whiffed that attack" nonsense. Yes, because the whole game should be about jerking around until you land the same boring combos over and over. This is why high level play bores me to watch. Fun for people who get the punishments involved but not so much for everyone else.

Edit: I enjoy TTT2. Just wish it had more in the way of being a tribute to the older games. More throwback outfits, remodeled stages and remixes of classic tunes would have been killer.

I'll take the slap, and shrug it off...

First, this game is the most newbie-friendly game in the series... Just pick solo and use pokes everytime and you can still win against the pros. There's fight lab, and if you S all of that thing, at least you get the grasp of the whole game. And you don't have to know your opponent well enough to win (I keep emphasizing this to everyone I teach at tekken), what you need is just basic understanding of the game, being able to adapt and read opponents, and have discipline to not mash the attacks.

About character reduction, who's you gonna cut? Cut lars? alisa? wang? baek? Even the obsolete Jun and Kuni were requested back... Again, it's easy for people to say CUT! until their mains are cut. It's okay if this game's like SF where you could pick it up easily, but people spent time and money to learn these chars. Making the roster significantly small takes away the replayability.

About long combos, the point of "you shouldn't whiff/use punishable moves" are legit, because This game teaches you to discipline yourself. Again, same spirit in martial arts training. Be lousy in the ring, and dare to throw that wide swing to show off and you'll end up kissing the mat. Much worse if it's a street fight. And aesthetically speaking, remove these long combos and you'll end up looking boring like VF. Despite being fun, VF is boring to watch.

You said it yourself, TTT2 is fun. Fans need to accept Tekken as it is. A extremely deep fighting game, with large diverse characters and large movelist that allows great mindgames and creativity. If we want a simple fanservice fighter, I'll buy DOA, but as you play more fighting games and get bored/tired of how shallow some games are, go to Tekken...

As far as saying TTT2 has too many characters or such, or Tekken needs an overhaul... in my mind the Tekken Tag games are pretty much endcap collections of everything from a certain era of Tekken. They're supposed to have every character, are pretty much just competitive dream match games.

TTT2 emphasizes this with its sports arena presentation and framing Tekken as sport.

I would imagine that a Tekken 7 would be the game were experimentation and rebooting occurs once again. TTT2 will be here for the next ten years for those who want a super deep, sprawling competitive Tekken package.

At this point, a company can't afford to experiment. Parts of the reason arcades closed down was because T4 have so expensive machines but the game itself lacks replayability. Not only it hurt the arcades, it hurt the Tekken IP as well...

 

[Hellix]

Sigh, I think I give up on Angel. Her ff3,4 has such strict timing for a bound. She doesn't really have a lot of moves in her arsenal either.

 

[DR2K]

lili's 123 is an example of a move that you aren't allowed to delay for mixups. Thats why the game wont let you space out and then do the 3. You gotta commit. You can just mash it out though (1233333333)

an example of a move you are allowed to delay is heihachi's df1,2

Yes I'm aware, but it's universal in other fighters. This makes it a little more difficult to apply said move, since its use becomes limited.

The only difference between Tekken and any other fighter is that it takes longer to actually get to the depth of the game. Tekken isn't more deep than DOA or VF or SC or Street Fighter or anything else. It's just more obstacles and barriers that don't need to be there.

 

[Ferrio]

Yes I'm aware, but it's universal in other fighters. This makes it a little more difficult to apply said move, since its use becomes limited.

What's universal?

 

[Doomshine]

Woosh. That wasn't my point. It's an example to show how Tekken's inputs are more difficult. I didn't say it was hard, it just makes very little sense.

It's not a delayable string. You can press 3 and 4 in Dragunov's 2,1,3 and 2,1,4 like you described because that's a delayable string.

I don't understand how Tekken has suddenly become the hardest game on the planet when it's had the same execution requirements since at least the first Tag.

EDIT: beaten.

 

[Shouta]

Any ARSys game throws are deadly. (Though I haven't played P4U).

Well, even in an Arcsys game, it's an option. It's deadly but it's an option. VF is the only game where every other action you can do is a throw and you can still win. Not really possible any other game. Not that you want to throw all the time but it's viable.

 

[DR2K]

What's universal?

The way strings are handled.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I liked tekken 4. If we had easier patches back then, it could had been molded into something really good.

I myself Hope they might go back to some of those ideas. Maybe a side tekken game.

 

[DEATH™]

It's not a delayable string. You can press 3 and 4 in Dragunov's 2,1,3 and 2,1,4 like you described because that's a delayable string.

I don't understand how Tekken has suddenly become the hardest game on the planet when it's had the same execution requirements since at least the first Tag.

It's the mindset bro... It's just that...

SF4 Links are way harder than Tekken's juggles and Marvel's combos are way longer and broken than Tekken... I don't know why this game isn't the biggest fighter here... Maybe we need to imitate Capcom for DLC? Controversies create cash you know...

I liked tekken 4. If we had easier patches back then, it could had been moulded into something really good.

I myself Hope they might go back to some of those ideas. Maybe a side tekken game.

Not a side tekken game, but a new game overall... Seriously... I'd love harada to make a new fighter IP...

 

[GrayFoxPL]

It's not a delayable string. You can press 3 and 4 in Dragunov's 2,1,3 and 2,1,4 like you described because that's a delayable string.

I don't understand how Tekken has suddenly become the hardest game on the planet when it's had the same execution requirements since at least the first Tag.

Yeah, not to mention Tekken team redid everything to be more responsive and accessible without dumbing down the system too much.

 

[Skilletor]

It's the mindset bro... It's just that...

SF4 Links are way harder than Tekken's juggles and Marvel's combos are way longer and broken than Tekken... I don't know why this game is still the biggest fighter here... Maybe we need to imitate Capcom for DLC? Controversies create cash you know...

Not really an apt comparison as there isn't a lot of crossover (of players) between 2D and 3D fighters.

 

[DR2K]

It's the mindset bro... It's just that...

SF4 Links are way harder than Tekken's juggles and Marvel's combos are way longer and broken than Tekken... I don't know why this game is still the biggest fighter here... Maybe we need to imitate Capcom for DLC? Controversies create cash you know...

SF4 links aren't necessary and neither are juggles in MVC3. Well it varies form character to character.