-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
Stiler
Member
Do you watch movies? Do you watch anything that has a lot of night scenes/dark areas? (Which many modern shows do, IE American Gods, Twin Peaks, etc).
The Ks8000 and most edge lit lcd's will have bleed/flashlighting and other things that will affect these scenes .
That's why I returned my Ks8000, anytime there was something dark on screen with some color on the top it had noticeable flashlighting and other things that would make the lower part look brighter and off color.
Oled's , because they aren't edge lit and each pixel lights up can completely turn off so blacks are.....well black.
Best thing you can do is go to a local store and look at an oled for yourself and compare it to an edge lit lcd.
GearDraxon
Member
I think the consensus has been that OLEDs are great in the ways that plasmas were great, and so people who opted for plasma despite their drawbacks will feel the same way about OLED... and in many cases, the drawbacks of LCDs will still put them off.
But sure, develop some sort of weird victim complex about the technology behind the television you bought.
But sure, develop some sort of weird victim complex about the technology behind the television you bought.
That's a good price, congrats
65" OLED premium is too much. Not gonna pay extra for their bad manufacturing yields. For me that's where it made sense to buy one of those FALDs above, at least where I am. LG deals where so shite up here at the time.
And yeah, it's true that 90% of what most will watch now is SDR, but most of it is so poor quality and blurry anyways so no big lossHDR content will become common over the next 2 yrs.
The bolded is a good point and also brings up the fact that word on the street is the LGs don't handle upscaling of SDR/lower resolution content as well as the Sonys and Samsung sets not to mention motion too. Those 2 factors as well as price is why I'm going with one of the '17 Sony sets. I can't wait a few years for a good 70"+ OLED at a reasonable price.
So I'm looking at getting this this 48 inch 1080p TV. Mainly because 1) I'd rather wait a few years for HDR and 4K standards to settle down and become a bit cheaper and 2) I don't think I'd be fine having a £600+ TV in a student house where it can possibly be stolen. Just wondering whether viewing distance will be an issue as I'll be looking at it from about 6 foot away, should I consider changing my setup around a bit or not?
NYR
Member
OLED. No brainer.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Yup. The C6 is the curved one. My current OLED has a slight curve too, but i got used to it real real soon. So i can definitely get used to a fully flat screen real soon too. Especially if that price difference is 200 euros.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
How about this for a new thread title...
"LCD's are much more powerful than OLED's..."
Bloody hell that's got some impact eh guys.
"LCD's are much more powerful than OLED's..."
Bloody hell that's got some impact eh guys.
Theonik
Member
"when they go low we go high'
Resident_UA
Member
That's a good price, congrats
65" OLED premium is too much. Not gonna pay extra for their bad manufacturing yields. For me that's where it made sense to buy one of those FALDs above, at least where I am. LG deals where so shite up here at the time.
And yeah, it's true that 90% of what most will watch now is SDR, but most of it is so poor quality and blurry anyways so no big loss
When I say SDR I mean 1080p content and 4k content without HDR. OLEDs do very well with both. And both will stay relevant for quite a while.
vpance
Member
Can't really disagree. You don't need 1500 nits for SDR after all. But I buy mostly forward looking in mind so I'm ok with less than perfect SDR performance, cuz I'm mainly interested in seeing the shinyest and prettiest version of top UHD content. Otherwise I would just stick with my plasma which has no motion issues and handles 1080p natively with no scaling.
I also convert most 4K SDR (just not games usually) to HDR on my TV. Works really well. Samsung actually beat the others in one thing on the software side for once, lol. So basically most of the stuff I'm watching that's not cable TV is in HDR.
Felix Lighter
Member
Figures, 2017 I buy OLED and it's out of fashion already.
Especially if youre speaking 2017 models, OLED. 2017 Samsung models are disappointing. The MU8000 is a step back from the KS8000. If you opt Q7+, you're at OLED territory, and as a plasma guy, only option, FOR ME the past two years has been OLED. I got a EF9500 and haven't entertained LED since. I replaced my EF9500 finally with a Sony A1E, and it is spectacular.
And its spectacular with SDR and HDR. Period. Some People seem to be buying into the nits battle. Fact is, LED and OLED have different standards established for said format.
I looked long and hard, played around with all the new sets this year. And it is what it is. Sub-OLED budget, buy a 900E. OLED budget, buy a OLED. This applies to MOST plasma owners.
For higher end LED sets to be competitive in dark levels, they need to crank down their brightness advantage anyways. And when they hit their HDR cap on brightness in said scenes, they bloom. This is also applicable to even the Z9.
As far as pricing, the Z9 is $5500, the 940E is $6000. They are at and above OLED pricing. 2016 models supplies are basically dried up, especially in the US.
I just watched TV this afternoon with a 3-pane bay window and large window behind, and it was more than bright enough.
But hey. That's my opinion. Look at the sets and buy what you like and can afford.
LightofRohan
Member
Sweet jeebus, thanks for all the tips and advice. I'm definitely wanting to go OLED, but I feel like I'm at an odd point where there is no real killer 65" OLED for 3k bucks...
I was thinking about the B6 then I saw a review on amazon that said:
"- Do not buy this if youre a gamer. There is significant lag time even when setting on the TV is in Game Console. PlayStation or Xbox their will all be lag time and will not function accurately (55-70 milliseconds lag time).
- Game Mode can throw off color contrast."
Uhh, seems like a deal breaker. Especially coming off Plasma which I believe has literal no lag, this has me nervous. Any ideas?
The point was, someone coming off of a 1080p plasma television not being impressed with anything but an OLED. I mean is he going to ignore things like better and more vibrant colors on some LED sets, better color accuracy, how about some LED sets approaching near 2000 nits of brightness for HDR scenes, how about input lags lower in some LED for gaming than OLED. By saying a plasma owner should only look to OLED is foolish. You are going to ignore a myriad of sets that would give you what you need, at a price that would suit you.
That is my point. And you saw this all the time last 'television' gen. Don't be a fanboy to one technology, one brand. Of course if something is the best, state it. OLED is the future of television technology. But as someone obsessed with AV, wanting a better picture while fighting with needs, price. Only going OLED limits the hell out of you.
and if the answer is, well they're still going to watch 90% of what they can on plasma, why even upgrade? Because of that 10%. The 10% is the whole reason you upgrade. The whole reason you gave up your 1080i laser or DLP or Rear Projections to get a 1080p plasma when content was still 480i/480p/720p etc.
Like I said, don't be a fanboy to one technology or even brand unless it is something so amazing and great that it has to be the best. I am even more limited in AV options in Canada. Which is why I bought a KS8000. It was 65" and I got it for $1079 USD. Yes edge lit, dark scenes I clearly see the edge lit issues, gray uniformity not great. But there is a reaosn my ST50 is in the den, and I am watching Planet Earth II with HDR on it, playing Horizon Zero Dawn on it, would I be able to do the same on an OLED? Sure. But as you stated, you got a 55" OLED B7 for $1600. More than 50% more than what I paid, and 10" smaller. So there are always drawbacks. People coming from high end plasmas will love OLED. But to write off any non-OLED set altogether. Why? Research, read around. What do you need it for? Gaming? 4K and HDR movie watching. Is it a dark theatre room or bright ass condo living room. What is the price budget?
Black Friday/November. LG has slashed prices 2 years in a row around then. Then they slowly go back up. So if you want an OLED C7 wait around that time.
LightofRohan
Member
Uhh, I'm here asking and on AVS. Never heard such a dramatic statement before about the b6 though, wondering if there is any credence to it.
How old was the review? LG had a patch/firmware to reduce B6 input lag, otherwise it used to be like 60ms+ if I remember correctly for 4K and HDR and now they got it down to like what 28ms?
So maybe the review you read was before the updates?
MyleMan1010
Member
I was all set to purchase a Sony X900E this weekend. The Best Buy price is $1399 for the holiday weekend. But after checking rtings, I see a Vizio set, the P55-C1 at $998 and I'm torn. They literally trade punches in the rtings reviews. I'm gonna check them out in person first, but man that seems like a crazy good deal.
I'm putting the new 4K TV next to a 1080p 55" Sony in my "game room." AKA I have a room for kids to play in and watch TV / for Dad to play games in as well. This doesn't need to be a uber good TV. But I do have a PS4 Pro, Xbox One S and am buying whatever the Scorpio ends up being and putting it in this room. I have the LG UH7700 65" in my living room. That TV is good for what it's used for in the living room, but the back light uniformity mixed with the banding artifacts make me want something better to game on. I wish I could talk the wife into the OLED, but I like sleeping in the bed too much. I can push that off until the basement construction starts...
I'm putting the new 4K TV next to a 1080p 55" Sony in my "game room." AKA I have a room for kids to play in and watch TV / for Dad to play games in as well. This doesn't need to be a uber good TV. But I do have a PS4 Pro, Xbox One S and am buying whatever the Scorpio ends up being and putting it in this room. I have the LG UH7700 65" in my living room. That TV is good for what it's used for in the living room, but the back light uniformity mixed with the banding artifacts make me want something better to game on. I wish I could talk the wife into the OLED, but I like sleeping in the bed too much. I can push that off until the basement construction starts...
What I meant was, you shouldn't listen to Amazon reviews. They're either flat out wrong or just outdated info and in the case of the B6, it's the latter. There was a firmware update not long ago that reduced the latency down to 28ms in SDR and HDR.
NYR
Member
It's a horseshit Amazon review. Read rtings for the lag numbers, it is fine. Unless you are in faze or something, you really shouldn't be worried about lag on an OLED. Input lag is around 28-30 ms. It's one frame loss, it won't effect anything.
http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6
With Amazon you're lucky if the listed reviews are even for the product you're looking at. If they are, then you're lucky if they aren't fake.
etc etc
LightofRohan
Member
Metalingus5150
Member
The P55 C1 is an IPS panel. So it'll have worse blacks than the 900e.
Or the review could have been up from before the recent firmware updates which reduced lag. Amazon reviews are pretty good for the top reviews to get a gist of what early consumers think. But always check rtings for the latest and always do more research than one site.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
So there's a chance i will miss out on the B6 for 1600 euros, they are selling out like crazy for that price and i dont have the money just yet.
Now there's another option. I could also go for the B7, but is it worth that price difference? According to HDTVTEST it does HDR better and input lag is 21.3.
The B6 (if i miss that discount) is 1799 and the B7 is 2289. Is it worth paying 490 bucks more for?
This is what they say about HDR:
But how relevant is this?
Now there's another option. I could also go for the B7, but is it worth that price difference? According to HDTVTEST it does HDR better and input lag is 21.3.
The B6 (if i miss that discount) is 1799 and the B7 is 2289. Is it worth paying 490 bucks more for?
This is what they say about HDR:
But how relevant is this?
Mr. Wonderful
Member
I'll be really curious to watch what OLEDs are capable of doing with HDR in the next couple of years compared to full-array LEDs, compared to advancements in other technologies like Quantum Dots. I want my next TV to be an OLED for the black level, but brightness makes a big difference, too.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
So the dude who posted the Kuro comparisons, has just posted this:
https://youtu.be/u0K7ZdD4WdY
He's saying that the DX902 uses 'red frame insertion' not BFI......ive never heard of this like ever, but it does look like red frames.
Any ideas?
https://youtu.be/u0K7ZdD4WdY
He's saying that the DX902 uses 'red frame insertion' not BFI......ive never heard of this like ever, but it does look like red frames.
Any ideas?
Yeah I would definitely pay $490 more for the B7. You get higher nits, less aggressive ABL, better near-black performance, slightly lower input lag with 4:4:4 in ISF, etc.
No brainer imo.
My Panasonic Viera is dying and I've been looking at new TVs to replace it, is the rtings.com list still accurate? I was looking for something around 42" so the Sony X800D seems like a decent option. Any reason not to get that one? I'll be using it for my PC in addition to my consoles. Seems like for any better quality I would need to get a bigger TV, but I sit very close to the TV (small room) so I'm hesitant to go any higher.
Edit: Or maybe the X800E? That seems to be the 2017 equivalent, is it pretty much the same?
Edit: Or maybe the X800E? That seems to be the 2017 equivalent, is it pretty much the same?
X800E is worse in almost every way except for slightly marginal better brightness. The only downside to the X800D is that it is only around 400 nits sustained brightness. Otherwise it is a solid television and the best you can probably get under 46" for 4K and HDR purposes. The sizes are just too niche for any substantial investment. This year if you need 49", Sony at least offers a respectable X900E for purposes. But yeah, stick to the X800D model.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Personally, I love my 900e. If it helps, the 900e scales cable better than the Vizio - even more so after the recent firmware update.
NYR
Member
If you read the review, it even says the lag numbers are updated from the latest firmware.
holygeesus
Banned
490 Euros = $550 but I'd still pay it too.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
That's understandable, i mean after all it's an investment for several years to come. Sadly the EC9300 didn't last me as long as i had expected, but that's not the TV's fault but more myself because i want 4K for Scorpio.
Chances are the 6 series is selling out soon and then all is left (that is affordable for me) are the 7 models. The B and C7.
I read about that a few weeks ago on the AVForums so it does look like it's true.
MyleMan1010
Member
I ordered the 900E today and am picking it up tomorrow. I'm glad you like yours and am excited to get everything hooked up and rolling.
Yeah input lag isn't the best also if you're anal like me and are worried about screen retention oled do suffer from it despite what people say. I went from a vt60 to a Sony w9 LCD because of the threat of it. It's why I ain't went oled yet and got a stupid barging on the us Samsung model 9500. The motion felt a bit strange on the oled to me because of years watching LCD, but you coming from plasma shouldn't have that issue. It really is personal preference at a certain point there's no denying the facts of sets but your eye is your eye and different tech is different depending on your own preferences.
I just bought an OLED65e6 so i thought i would weigh in. I'm no av expert but hopefully my observations can help someone.
First of all, getting my ps4 pro to work on this thing was a nightmare. I had heard there were some handshaking or hdcp issues previously but i thought this was resolved via a firmware update. But i spent the first 2 or 3 hours wrestling with constant connection drop outs and flickering images. Initially the only resolution was to switch the LG 'deep colour' option off. But then of course you lose hdr. But then i swapped to one specific hdmi cable (the one that came with my sky box) and since then there have been no issues. Maybe someone could advise here - could my older hdmi cables not support the required signal for 4k hdr?
Once these initial tech issues were out the way i could get on with enjoying my set. Overall i can say it is a fantastic tv. The richness and depth to the colours is superb. And i came from a top of the range 2009 panasonic viera plasma.
3d is also particularly good. I tried malificent and despicable me 2 on blu ray and both were impressive. Although the passive glasses do reduce the brightness a bit too much for my liking.
The HDR on the ps4 (once i got it working) was unbelievable. Maybe i am too easily pleased but i was astounded by the changes to the visuals on games like resogun and horizon. Ratchet and clank also looked superb.
One thing that is bothering me (and perhaps someone can suggest something here), i use my ps4 for games and movies. I have customised the hdr game mode for hdr gaming and the tv auto switches to that when it picks up the signal so thats fine. But for everything else i have two modes: game mode and cinema mode (for games and movies respectively). I have to keep switching between these manually and this is a small annoyance. So for example, i play fifa in game mode, i then decide to watch netflix so i have to go to the tv settings and select cinema mode. Otherwise i get less than ideal movie settings. is there any way to get the tv to recognise games vs movies? Or failing that, anything i can press to quickly switch between the two on the remote?
On the subject of picture modes, this is my one big red cross for the tv. Motion is particularly poor without a small degree of dejudder. Although if i use a small amount of de judder (level 2 or 3) this removes all the stuttering and introduces very slight artifacts but the trade off is worthwhile.
First of all, getting my ps4 pro to work on this thing was a nightmare. I had heard there were some handshaking or hdcp issues previously but i thought this was resolved via a firmware update. But i spent the first 2 or 3 hours wrestling with constant connection drop outs and flickering images. Initially the only resolution was to switch the LG 'deep colour' option off. But then of course you lose hdr. But then i swapped to one specific hdmi cable (the one that came with my sky box) and since then there have been no issues. Maybe someone could advise here - could my older hdmi cables not support the required signal for 4k hdr?
Once these initial tech issues were out the way i could get on with enjoying my set. Overall i can say it is a fantastic tv. The richness and depth to the colours is superb. And i came from a top of the range 2009 panasonic viera plasma.
3d is also particularly good. I tried malificent and despicable me 2 on blu ray and both were impressive. Although the passive glasses do reduce the brightness a bit too much for my liking.
The HDR on the ps4 (once i got it working) was unbelievable. Maybe i am too easily pleased but i was astounded by the changes to the visuals on games like resogun and horizon. Ratchet and clank also looked superb.
One thing that is bothering me (and perhaps someone can suggest something here), i use my ps4 for games and movies. I have customised the hdr game mode for hdr gaming and the tv auto switches to that when it picks up the signal so thats fine. But for everything else i have two modes: game mode and cinema mode (for games and movies respectively). I have to keep switching between these manually and this is a small annoyance. So for example, i play fifa in game mode, i then decide to watch netflix so i have to go to the tv settings and select cinema mode. Otherwise i get less than ideal movie settings. is there any way to get the tv to recognise games vs movies? Or failing that, anything i can press to quickly switch between the two on the remote?
On the subject of picture modes, this is my one big red cross for the tv. Motion is particularly poor without a small degree of dejudder. Although if i use a small amount of de judder (level 2 or 3) this removes all the stuttering and introduces very slight artifacts but the trade off is worthwhile.
Yep. First time in a long time cables matter.
Glad you enjoy the set. It'll be hard to leave OLED in the future. But I look forward to the tech that replaces it, it'll have to be awesome.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
I just sold my EC9300 for a good price. Means i will be gaming without a big TV for at least a week but ah well. The hunt for the 4K OLED TV begins for me!
DOT DASH DOT
Member
It needs some DV lovin.
Screw your FALDs. Screw your OLEDs.
Give me this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLiVrU42kqE
*drool*
Give me this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLiVrU42kqE
*drool*
DOT DASH DOT
Member
I was literally just watching that, looks good, didn't really talk figures, but I guess he didn't test it as such.
grfunkulus
Banned
Too bad blacks on a projector (even a $25k one) seem to wash out super bad under bright conditions...OLED at 77 should be enough for any sane human being in a couple years when the prices are reasonable.
vpance
Member
2500 lumens according to specs = 730 nits.