Resident_UA
Member
Protection from what? Also, you care about scratches on the back, but don't care about a bunch of random circles that film has? I removed it right away
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
Protection from what? Also, you care about scratches on the back, but don't care about a bunch of random circles that film has? I removed it right away
Oh man, I can't wait to bingewatch season 7 in a couple of weeks on HBO Nordic. Their quality is just absolute shit. Like ridiculously bad.
But alright, "good" to hear Netflix BB doesn't look very good for anyone, so it's not on my end. Shame though, because the show definitely deserves better. It's not my favorite show around, but it's by far the most visually interesting and exciting I've probably ever seen.
holygeesus
Banned
There is not a single owner of an OLED in this thread, saying they don't suffer from IR. They do, and it comes on easily and quickly. What is more debatable is whether permanent burn-in is an issue. I argue it isn't, having used and abused my set for 15 months now, watching films of all aspect ratios, gaming for hours upon hours with bright HUDs on the screen, watching sports for nearly a day (test cricket!) with on-screen logos etc. I have no burn-in nor any other thing to complain about.
I'm also not saying people don't have burn-in issues, but personally I think there are technical faults at play here, rather than it being an inherent fault with the technology, especially as we are seeing people with burn-in who say they haven't left logos on long enough to cause even IR let alone permanent burn-in.
That isn't universally true.
OLED does need to get brighter, though, for HDR.
It doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as it was for plasmas. Burn-in (and temporary IR) were a constant worry with plasmas. For OLED it seems to be rare enough to be chalked down to either panel defects or abuse. But yeah, it's still a concern.
On the other hand (Z9D):
Plus FALD LCD doesn't pass the eye test. I shopped against the Z9D and the KS9800 when I bought my OLED. These FALD LCDs look great on full black screens, as they did when the first FALD displays came out, but OLED cleans their clock overall on dark scenes. The demo loop in Best Buy Magnolia had some challenging scenes with blacks and the Sony/Samsung just couldn't keep up with the OLEDs.
Also, as a "for instance", in last night's Game of Thrones, in the scene in the tomb, my B7 displayed the candles perfectly as bright flames in a sea of perfect black. On a FALD LCD, they would be surrounded by a glow, as the zones/overlap of zones don't line up 100%, and black levels are elevated around those points.
At this point I don't think I can go back to LCD.
I probably wouldn't recommend an OLED to someone who plays only one game that has static HUD elements, like an FPS or fighter. LCD makes more sense for them. Just not high-end LCD. I really like the Vizio P-series or TCL P607 for gamers like this. Great sets, very capable, with local dimming.
Sanctuary
Member
The Game of Thrones Blu-rays look fucking phenomenal on my B6, and they are simply being upscaled.
Are you talking about streaming specificially, or just specific shows in general?
Oh my god, lol. Wow. I started in at around the 20:00 mark to make sure it was fully buffered and streaming at an optimal bitrate (for Netflix), and thought it looked pretty damn nice. But it was a daytime scene. Once they entered the office, I noticed a lot of the film grain standing out, and was wondering if that's what you were seeing. I still didn't think it looked bad at all. Then the night scene appeared, and I immediately noticed what you were talking about. The bushes weren't going just from light to dark though, it was more like the pixels were crawling all over the screen, or shimmering like I've seen them do in certain games (Horizon being one). Walter's fucking driveway looked like it was swarming with ants.
It's the show. Or at least, it's the show from streaming, and probably looked similar with the regular TV broadcast.
Sucks. Do yourself a favor and buy the six season boxed set (Atmos). Or I guess just wait until a year and a half from now to buy the complete series. The discs are gorgeous, and the blacks of the OLED make everything look phenomenal, despite minor crushing at times. On a side note, Westworld is being released in 4K. No clue about HDR though.
The live broadcast of GoT. It's one of the worst things I've seen on my set so far. It's disappointing that the producers don't give a shit about the picture quality of their insanely popular show.
holygeesus
Banned
Game of Thrones is notorious for punishing the previous generation OLEDs. How does the B7 cope with the below black this time round? I'm tempted to upgrade my B6 now the B7 is below £2k.
guitarguy316
Member
heat retention i presume, i would remove that.
Sanctuary
Member
You mean above black?
Hahah alright, thanks for checking! It's not too bad most of the time, but there are moments when it definitely gets distracting.
A lot of the day time stuff still looks phenomenal for being streamed.
2017 OLEDs have better above-black performance than 2016 but some episodes still have minor problems where dark gray clips to black too quickly IMO. Also, I have seen my gray uniformity issues pop up in this season of Game of Thrones.
Now, that said, I haven't watched this season on my Panasonic plasma for reference, so take that with a grain of salt. I may rewatch last night's ep tonight just to see how it does.
Sanctuary
Member
Personally, I don't like watching any TV broadcasts that have a lot of dark scenes on my set. I normally just watch Blu-ray rips via PC and madVR. Netflix seems hit or miss however. Stranger Things for example had a few black heavy scenes that made my jaw drop, but at other times it looked like complete trash. Mr. Robot almost always looks good though.
Stranger Things was a pleasure to watch and those black heavy scenes really sold OLED to me. I'm particularly looking forward to Daredevil season 3 which should have Dolby Vision support.
Also if you have Amazon Prime I recommend checking out The Man in the High Castle. Seeing fire in HDR in an early episode made me say wow.
White should be OK. Reports from those with burn-in say yellow and red seem to be the culprits. For me it was red that did it.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
I agree. I actually upgraded from an LG 2007 42" 720p to a 2014 Samsung 60" 1080 last year. Bought it from a secondhand shop.
Still waiting on OLED to become reasonably priced, but it appears that it has two same problems as plasma but with reduced performance.
I am hoping that some company says screw it and goes back to making plasmas anyway. I would overpay for a modern plasma.
I'm waiting until 4K becomes industry-standard before I make the leap. By that I mean the next generation of video cards Beyond the 1080 GTX.
The DirecTV broadcast doesn't look great at all for GoT. Then I get the blurays and it's like watching a whole different show.
Sanctuary
Member
Buuuut the B6 can't do HDR very well.
Supposedly
I just play everything than can't be run at 2160/60 at 1440/60 and the visual difference isn't as night and day as some want to claim, yet it still looks noticeably better than trying to play at 1080p. I figure that by the time I do a full build again at the end of next year, Nvidia will finally have released their single slot solution that can do 2160/60 with modern games, and without having to keep a lot of the eye candy on low. Or at the very latest, spring 2019.
Last night's GoT episode looked absolutely terrible with all the dark scenes on my C6. So bad. The blu-rays do look spectacular though, I have a few seasons on disc.
Speaking of discs, I got a second UP970 and even though it's quieter it still makes an audible vibration. Honestly, guys, skip it completely. I've read all the stories, and I was hoping it would be a good case for me, but I do not feel like trying a third time.
I've ordered an Oppo 203.
Speaking of discs, I got a second UP970 and even though it's quieter it still makes an audible vibration. Honestly, guys, skip it completely. I've read all the stories, and I was hoping it would be a good case for me, but I do not feel like trying a third time.
I've ordered an Oppo 203.
The power of high bitrate.
Also, people should not ignore the impact of scaler chips. Sony is still considered to be the best in that regard, expecially with smoothing out sub-native feeds.
HDR looks decent to good on the OLEDs for TV shows/movies. They just look better on high end LCDs.
It's the video games that leave me underwhelmed right now. If consoles supported Dolby Vision then maybe I'd feel differently.
Looks fine on my old vt25 through hbogo on xbone.
Sanctuary
Member
Well, it doesn't help much when each developer seems to want to use their own intepretation either. I thought Horizon looked pretty damn good overall, but the ridiculously fast day/night/weather cycle didn't really help much. I also thought that Mass Effect: Andromeda looked a bit better with HDR on compared to off, but it wasn't to a point in which having it completely off would have been a downgrade. The game itself already accomplished that on its own easily enough. RE7 didn't really impress me either, and was a game that had tons of banding and halos everywhere in dark scenes on the B6, but it had banding in SD on another TV as well. Just not nearly as pronounced.
DangerMouse
Member
Yeah, and while it's true that the peak brightness isn't as high, the way that the OLED can get darker right next to the highlights I think makes those highlights stand out just as much.
Yeah, it really varies game to game. I think HZD and Rachet are my two favorites so far. I expect Spider-Man to be another showcase thanks to Insomniac and the really impressive look of the lighting even in regular footage.
Yeah, I hope they'll give GoT a 4K blu-ray release when it's over.
holygeesus
Banned
I did yes
GOT on HBO Now looks woeful, so I bought this season from Amazon and it looks ten times better on my B6. Their streaming efforts are the best around IMO. They certainly seem to throw more bandwidth at their files than Netflix and Apple do.
I did yes
GOT on HBO Now looks woeful, so I bought this season from Amazon and it looks ten times better on my B6. Their streaming efforts are the best around IMO. They certainly seem to throw more bandwidth at their files than Netflix and Apple do.
Is that US only? I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra to watch season 7 in actually solid quality in a couple of weeks.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
That isn't universally true.
OLED does need to get brighter, though, for HDR.
It doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as it was for plasmas. Burn-in (and temporary IR) were a constant worry with plasmas. For OLED it seems to be rare enough to be chalked down to either panel defects or abuse. But yeah, it's still a concern.
On the other hand (Z9D):
Plus FALD LCD doesn't pass the eye test. I shopped against the Z9D and the KS9800 when I bought my OLED. These FALD LCDs look great on full black screens, as they did when the first FALD displays came out, but OLED cleans their clock overall on dark scenes. The demo loop in Best Buy Magnolia had some challenging scenes with blacks and the Sony/Samsung just couldn't keep up with the OLEDs.
Also, as a "for instance", in last night's Game of Thrones, in the scene in the tomb, my B7 displayed the candles perfectly as bright flames in a sea of perfect black. On a FALD LCD, they would be surrounded by a glow, as the zones/overlap of zones don't line up 100%, and black levels are elevated around those points.
At this point I don't think I can go back to LCD.
I probably wouldn't recommend an OLED to someone who plays only one game that has static HUD elements, like an FPS or fighter. LCD makes more sense for them. Just not high-end LCD. I really like the Vizio P-series or TCL P607 for gamers like this. Great sets, very capable, with local dimming.
I'm wondering what settings that picture was taken with? In a very dark room, there is no way that would look like that on mine, and the ZD has 130 more zones.
That just isn't true about only looking good on full black screens, on the contrary they can be bloody impressive.
Were taken lights off, your picture doesn't tally up.
I'm not saying FALD's don't suffer from blooming ever, cause that would be ridiculous, it depends, just looks very washed out and exaggerated in that pic.
holygeesus
Banned
Yeah it's via HBO but using Amazon Video. If you wait a few weeks (a month?) you can get a free months trial and binge watch all 8 episodes I guess, otherwise it is 15 dollars a month.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
I feel like my HBO Go experience varies pretty wildly based on when I watch. If you try to stream GOT on Sunday night, good luck, it's terrible.
I've watched streams on off peak times where it looks much much better tho.
and this isn't just a TV thing, across multiple devices.
I've watched streams on off peak times where it looks much much better tho.
and this isn't just a TV thing, across multiple devices.
Guys, I'm looking for a 55 inch set with 4k HDR 120hz. Is there any solution out there right now under 1000? This TV is purely a want seeing as we have a TV in every room. Really want the sony x900e, but looking for other opinions a d experience with other sets. 120 hz with good HDR and motion is what I'm looking for. Also will be watching tons of football and also gaming on it.
DangerMouse
Member
Yeah, I have HBO so I have never watched the streams, but that's a good point, it's obviously getting swamped on Sunday night.
That photo is from this review:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1474868470
It's overexposed to highlight the effect for emphasis, but you can clearly see the blooming. All FALD LCDs will have blooming of varying degrees and/or dimmed highlights (Vizio!). And yes, they can still look good with some dark scenes where lots of zones can be turned off, but emissive displays do a better and more consistent job.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Yes they do, but just seeing that pic with no context puts FALD's in a real bad light (no pun) and it's one of the reasons people turn their noses up at LCD's. The number one issue for me is viewing angles, they are very tight, and terrible for wide environments, but aside from that it does many things very well.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Looks like local dimming cranked way up? I don't have my TV yet, but it's my understanding that more aggressive local dimming will, while providing deeper blacks, also make blooming more apparent.
EDIT: Lol, okay, it's an overexposed photo. Why even post that unless you just want to make something look worse than it really is. Yes, of course OLEDs are better at displaying bright details against a black background, but sheesh... Why don't we post overexposed photos of OLEDs next, to get an exaggerated and inaccurate look at the vertical banding and poor uniformity they all suffer from.
RedlineRonin
Member
GoT was a bit dark again last night. Specifically the scene
Very little detail in the dark parts of the scene.
One thing i found extremely interesting was that the same scene was shown after the credits of the episode, in the five minute recap talks they have each week, and i could see tons of detail.
it was quite odd.
when Jon and Dany go into the dragon glass cave.
One thing i found extremely interesting was that the same scene was shown after the credits of the episode, in the five minute recap talks they have each week, and i could see tons of detail.
it was quite odd.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Exactly, why even bother putting that in a review! That is not how anyone could even view it. Ridiculous.
holygeesus
Banned
I did get some banding during that scene (which I would presume would not be as bad on the B7/Sony OLED) but that aside, the Amazon stream looked stunning. Some issues with an early grainy scene, but otherwise as good as I've ever seen GoT look outside of Blu-ray obviously. I checked my router usage and it appears to be over 3GB of use (for a 50 minute show) which is more bandwidth than other streaming sites tend to throw at their platforms. Amazon are certainly superior to Netflix now in terms of bitrate.
In that scene, when they go inside, my E6 just gave up trying to process it. There was a good few seconds of blurry nonsense. This was on Sky Atlantic HD btw, not a streaming service.
It was shockingly poor and I hope the Blu Ray doesn't have anything that bad.
LCDs are even worse in those aspects.
Edit: If you look at the gray uniformity ranking on rtings, 9 out of the 10 first are OLEDs.
They have their issues with above black handling but they're still noticeably better on average when it comes to uniformity.
Yeah, on VA the viewing angles are disappointing. Still, for the native contrast ratio, VA can't be beat, going IPS is almost unthinkable.
Well, on AVS myself and many other posters have posted overexposed 5% gray slides. I can post one here as well. It cuts both ways, but my point is that eventually what you see in an overexposed shot you WILL see in content.
RedlineRonin
Member
It's weird because it's almost similar to when you have a color space mismap; e.g. your display is set to "limited" but your output device is set to "full" or vice versa where things can look washed or blacks can look very crushed.
What makes it odd is that obviously, within the very same stream, you have a hard time seeing detail in the actual episode but then in the recap you can very easily see all the detail.
Not sure what to make of that. I almost need to check my color gamut settings for the "TV Apps" input for SDR and see if I don't have something set wrong.
E: Also worth noting, that at least on my C7, banding was very obviously present at the end where
Jamie gets knocked off his horse into the water. As he's slowly sinking into the water, there was some very obvious banding in the middle of the image.
That means nothing to me since it's always a panel lottery. You can get a good uniform screen or you can get something bad.
GreenMonkey
Member
A lot of visual / compression breakdowns, especially in dark scenes.
It isn't just GoT either. I was watching The Man in High Castle on my E6 last night and there was a very dark scene that was just a mess of compression artifacts.
I think a lot of these streams aren't well-tuned for bitrate for larger / better displays. I'm sure on a lot of displays with lesser blacks you'd never have seen the compression artifacts in the black space in the picture.
I felt like it looked like this scene from Another World (SNES-era game).
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Same here man. I was looking forward to watching my favorite show in 4K on Netflix on my 65B6 and it really didn't look all that great. Better call Saul looked fine though.
Is the BR of Breaking Bad better than the Netflix version?
Were you watching it in HDR? That show is one the cleanest looking I've seen yet tbh. One of the better HDR10 streams. Really excited for season 3 D:
darkazcura
Member
Are we talking about the TV broadcast or the stream? I think the HBOGo stream looks fantastic personally. Most TV broadcasts are complete junk tbh, unfortunately.
GreenMonkey
Member
Yeah, straight from the Amazon app on the TV. I'll check and see if I can find the scene again today.
Cloggerdude
Member
I need help picking out a TV around the 37"-42" range. I want basically the best that money can buy (you know what I mean), so I'm not really looking for just the "best value" here. 99% of the use will be for playing video games, but I'm not really super sensitive to input lag. I would much rather have something with superior image quality over something with lower lag, although having both works too.
I'm decently knowledgeable of the higher end models for larger tvs, but I'm not really finding much when it comes to smaller sizes. The best that I've been able to find, at first glance, is this one:
Samsung MU7000
Looks like I can grab an open box for ~$500, which isn't too shabby at all.
Edit: Maybe the X800D too? Looks to be around the same price for an open box.
Any other suggestions though?
I'm decently knowledgeable of the higher end models for larger tvs, but I'm not really finding much when it comes to smaller sizes. The best that I've been able to find, at first glance, is this one:
Samsung MU7000
Looks like I can grab an open box for ~$500, which isn't too shabby at all.
Edit: Maybe the X800D too? Looks to be around the same price for an open box.
Any other suggestions though?