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Terrorist attack in London [up: 6 people killed, ~50 injured, 3 attackers dead]

S

Stead Fast

Banned
JonnyDBrit said:
RtsJ9Hg.png


So apparently the attackers are into slitting throats. Hoping against all odds the victim here survives.
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Holy fuck I have friends who work at Bill's!
 
H

Herr Schwarz

Banned
Jazzy Geoff said:
Listen pal, some of us live in this city, Your bullshit false equivalence is not appreciated at this time.
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I was born in St Thomas' and raised in Lewisham.

People are asking what the heck is up, why they are doing this, and I'm saying human life is human life.

The motivations behind these attacks are repercussions of our actions pretty much since 9/11. The greater irony being those attacks happened due to the Saudis and they are making out like fucking bandits.

The Middle-East is turning into a grand Martyr inspiring these attacks. And until that shit is solved it won't stop. War on Terror continues.
 
P

Pyroclastic

Banned
Valhelm said:
As far as I can tell this violence can't end until a government actually addresses the social alienation and economic deprivation of young Muslim men. Certainly don't expect this to happen under a Tory government.
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how you do stop people being edgy, brainwashed, pathetic losers? that shit has to come within. plenty of people are socially alienated and poor. without them feeling the need to carry out an attack in support of their fruitless, repressive and regressive ideology. without even going into much detail about a person who had a medical degree in a recent foiled attack.

we need to end the idea of religious supremacy. It is so fucking bizzare that we're this secular tolerant country yet we have a sizable minority who believe in the appalling shit that the vast majority of people here and in other western countries despise and more isn't being done to discourage this.
 
Majukun

Majukun

Member
mrklaw said:
Pull out of areas and let them painfully figure it out themselves? While we might go into places like Syria with the best intentions, that is used as ammunition against us and used to radicalise people to attack like this.

As difficult as it may be, perhaps we stop interfering? Also worth considering that although sometimes there is an initially good intention to prevent human rights abuses etc, that can rapidly turn into governments pushing political agendas when looking at how to fill any power gaps. Many developed countries have in the past used smaller countries' turbulent situations for their own ends
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wait..isis was already radicalizing people way before the syria war started

this is not something that can be solved by not interfering,because isis doesn't want to leave us alone anyway.
 
M

Moosichu

Member
hwy_61 said:
What do we do to fight it, then? Do we join our armed forces in the fight, and kill these motherfuckers, so that they can get it that we're not to be fucked with? Seems to me that the police/armed forces can't possibly be everywhere all the time, so how do we defend ourselves and fight back?
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What do you want the UK to do, invade itself? A lot of these terrorists are home grown. Living your normal life is fighting back, and the seeming never-ending nature of these events is just that, eventually they will stop.

The most cost effective and preventative solution is probably setting up a network of support groups and mental health programs to target communities which are known to foster extremism, so that extremism can be prevented and if need be, security services can be better alerted.

It's worth pointing out, they don't care if they die. They are insane and damaged, but the individuals that are like that didn't need to be. Under different circumstances they could have been functional healthy adults, and that is yet another tragedy. Making sure generations like this aren't further fostered is also important. This is where funding programs are schools could also really help in the long term.
 
H

HaloRose

Banned
The "Regressive left" is primarily a pejorative term applied to a sub group within left leaning liberals who engage in apologism for Islamic conservatism and extremism.
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
KingSnake said:
Who's the regressive left?
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A certain set of people who feel the need to be so tolerant to different cultures, that they excuse the intolerant behavior of those groups and write them off as cultural differences we need to accept. This is something that happens from time to time. But I have yet to see anyone support ISIS, so that poster is just making stuff up.

Nawaz elaborated on the meaning of the term, saying that it describes "a section of the left" that has "an inherent hesitation to challenge some of the bigotry that can occur within minority communities ... for the sake of political correctness, for the sake of tolerating what they believe is other cultures and respecting different lifestyles"
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left
 
O

Oersted

Member
Agent Gibbs said:
The Rotherham situation is disgusting as was/is the reluctance to address that it occurred due to a cultural difference and its views of young women, its not racist to arrest a particular group if they are all of one ethnicity if they have all committed crimes and no police force of political should ever be scared to act! that was a warped interpretation of liberalism/PC culture what ever you want to call it (too tired to think of the correct term)
That does need to be weeded out, if a Mosque is allowing extremist preachers then officials should not be afraid to take them to task AND people should not take an offense to being acted upon it is in everyone's best interests to burn extremism to the ground
Likewise if a protestant/Catholic/jewish/ flying spaghetti monster sect started up with extremist actions i'd expect the same i'd expect it, this fear that leads to inaction is disgusting and allowing terrorists to operate
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Parts of the left do what parts of the right did back in the way. Seeing muslims as these noble savages. See that one Rambo movie in comparison.

Parts of the right are also racist and see muslims as that brown threat they have to defeat.

It would help if the majority reaches a point where they see muslims as humans.
 
Cpt.Underpants

Cpt.Underpants

Member
Valhelm said:
As far as I can tell this violence can't end until a government actually addresses the social alienation and economic deprivation of young Muslim men. Certainly don't expect this to happen under a Tory government.
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Aren't there socially economically well off muslim men/women as well? But chose to be loonies none the less
 
N

Netherscourge

Banned
Trump promoting his travel ban during this?

Seriously?

Wasn't the last terrorist attack by a British citizen? What the hell would the travel ban do to stop home-grown terrorists who are citizens of non-travel ban countries?
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Agent Gibbs said:
The Rotherham situation is disgusting as was/is the reluctance to address that it occurred due to a cultural difference and its views of young women, its not racist to arrest a particular group if they are all of one ethnicity if they have all committed crimes and no police force of political should ever be scared to act! that was a warped interpretation of liberalism/PC culture what ever you want to call it (too tired to think of the correct term)
That does need to be weeded out, if a Mosque is allowing extremist preachers then officials should not be afraid to take them to task AND people should not take an offense to being acted upon it is in everyone's best interests to burn extremism to the ground
Likewise if a protestant/Catholic/jewish/ flying spaghetti monster sect started up with extremist actions i'd expect the same i'd expect it, this fear that leads to inaction is disgusting and allowing terrorists to operate
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It's a landmark case and I doubt something on that scale will ever happen again, but it's a reminder that inaction born out of phobia can cost lives/well-being. Most of the UK forces and services are filled with relatively well trained and upstanding staff. They need to have confidence in themselves to do their jobs appropriately and the general public will by large back them. There will always be hostility and uncertainty around the police, but it comes with the job. If it's unfounded you need to ignore it and respectfully do your job which is to uphold society and protect the citizens you're sworn to serve.

The overarching Government, meaning the Conservatives as it stands, need to make sure the police and intelligence services are properly equipped, staffed and funded. That's another huge issue at it is. Being incredibly over the top with spying on the public and eroding privacy does not surpass the need for well funded services with adequate levels of staff.
 
P

PatThePassive

Member
Ether_Snake said:
If it was that simple then you'd have terrorist attacks from all poor people. There's a lot more to it than that, and there have been attacks carried by people who weren't poor. The radical religious aspect is a big part of it, and that is fueled by all sorts of issues, including cultural ones to sexual frustrations, ignorance and many more.
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There was also the creation of states during colonialism that gave rise to the tactic of terrorism, the desire for self governance and the refusal to surrender power has made the middle east a area plagued by conflict often.

Now today's attacks can reach America, and I'm not sure if there is a solution

And this is a vary vague look at this whole thing.
 
S

Stead Fast

Banned
JonnyDBrit said:
...Would they have been working tonight?
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Certainly, I work for the same chain, and a lot of the management staff know each other quite well. There are four of them working in Borough who I'm friends with, at least one would be on shift on Saturday night. I'm trying to get in touch now.
 
D

DukeLongfellow

Member
RoadHazard said:
We can't. It's gonna keep happening, and we have to live with it (or be killed by it). There's no fixing this. Some people just want to see us die.
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There is almost no fixing it in the Middle East, yes. I can't see how it can be done and even if you solve every single extremist problem in Europe proper, you'll still have them generating in other parts you have no control over.

Focusing on Europe is the most we can do and the only reasonable, long term solution I see (that still won't solve everything completely) is to make a deciding step towards secularization that would go hand in hand with integration efforts.

However, this would require Europe to do the same type of soul searching in itself and that's opening a whole different can of worms.

So, sadly, the only thing left for me to do is to express my sympathies to the British people and to not get carried away by petty emotions surrounding the whole tragedy.
 
S

Stereogatari

Banned
Ether_Snake said:
If it was that simple then you'd have terrorist attacks from all poor people. There's a lot more to it than that, and there have been attacks carried by people who weren't poor. The radical religious aspect is a big part of it, and that is fueled by all sorts of issues, including cultural ones to sexual frustrations, ignorance and many more.
Click to expand...

Sexual frustrations is no true at all. Many of these guys have or had girlfriends, drank etc. before suddenly becoming something else. Hell some of them even had girlfriends at the time of their attacks.

I think these people not feeling a part of a community is the main problem. People who feel belonging to their Muslim majority ethnic group or community, aren't the types to start killing. It's these ones on the fringe, that have had their heads turned by online material or radical groups which are modern globalised communities and not at all organic proper ones.

It should be seen similar to how young inner city people get caught up in gangs.
 
H

hwy_61

Banned
Moosichu said:
What do you want the UK to do, invade itself? A lot of these terrorists are home grown. Living your normal life is fighting back, and the seeming never-ending nature of these events is just that, eventually they will stop.

The most cost effective and preventative solution is probably setting up a network of support groups and mental health programs to target communities which are known to foster extremism, so that extremism can be prevented and if need be, security services can be better alerted.

It's worth pointing out, they don't care if they die. They are insane and damaged, but the individuals that are like that didn't need to be. Under different circumstances they could have been functional healthy adults, and that is yet another tragedy. Making sure generations like this aren't further fostered is also important. This is where funding programs are schools could also really help in the long term.
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man...I get what you're saying, but I just feel like we need to be more vigilant. And I don't agree that they will eventually stop. I think they'll get worse.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
HaloRose said:
The "Regressive left" is primarily a pejorative term applied to a sub group within left leaning liberals who engage in apologism for Islamic conservatism and extremism.
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Even if I put on my Sam Harris/Majid Nawaz/Dave Rubin hat... I think you paint a very silly picture of the discussion.

The argument is that liberals' defense against anti-Islamic bigotry actually helps Islamists.... but you wanna say the left loves Isis and they want to destroy western civilization together? Let's grow up a bit.
 
J

JonnyDBrit

Member
Netherscourge said:
Trump promoting his travel ban during this?

Seriously?

Wasn't the last terrorist attack by a British citizen? What the hell would the travel ban do to stop home-grown terrorists who are citizens of non-travel ban countries?
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Both the Manchester attacker, and the Westminster attacker, were born and raised in Britain, albeit thirty odd years apart.

Also Trump not thinking through the things he says on Twitter is, sadly, not new.

Edit:
Stead Fast said:
Certainly, I work for the same chain, and a lot of the management staff know each other quite well. There are four of them working in Borough who I'm friends with, at least one would be on shift on Saturday night. I'm trying to get in touch now.
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Hope they're safe.
 
Z

ZeoVGM

Banned
Netherscourge said:
Trump promoting his travel ban during this?

Seriously?
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Because he's a complete asshole.

Remember, Obama was "using" the tragedy of mass shootings to promote his "agenda." Trump himself has made that claim.

But he'll certainly use a tragedy to promote his agenda of banning a religion from the country.
 
P

pigeon interrupted

Member
Moosichu said:
What do you want the UK to do, invade itself? A lot of these terrorists are home grown. Living your normal life is fighting back, and the seeming never-ending nature of these events is just that, eventually they will stop.

The most cost effective and preventative solution is probably setting up a network of support groups and mental health programs to target communities which are known to foster extremism, so that extremism can be prevented and if need be, security services can be better alerted.

It's worth pointing out, they don't care if they die. They are insane and damaged, but the individuals that are like that didn't need to be. Under different circumstances they could have been functional healthy adults, and that is yet another tragedy. Making sure generations like this aren't further fostered is also important. This is where funding programs are schools could also really help in the long term.
Click to expand...

Well said. Let's not do the terrorist's job for them by attacking our own values and carelessly lashing out.
 
N

norinrad

Member
HaloRose said:
The "Regressive left" is primarily a pejorative term applied to a sub group within left leaning liberals who engage in apologism for Islamic conservatism and extremism.
Click to expand...

I got news for you. Either left or right, terrorists don't care, they are going to kill.

Stop the madness.
 
M

Muffin1611

Banned
HaloRose said:
The "Regressive left" is primarily a pejorative term applied to a sub group within left leaning liberals who engage in apologism for Islamic conservatism and extremism.
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"Fucking idiot" is a term I primarily apply to people who call others Islamic extremism supporters for wanting to coexist with brown people.

HaloRose said:
You cannot help people who won't admit that they have a problem. See this forum
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You mean yourself
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
ClosingADoor said:
A certain set of people who feel the need to be so tolerant to different cultures, that they excuse the intolerant behavior of those groups and write them off as cultural differences we need to accept. This is something that happens from time to time. But I have yet to see anyone support ISIS, so that poster is just making stuff up.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left
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Thanks, I didn't know about this definition before.

I've yet to see anybody excusing ISIS in the name of cultural tolerance.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
HaloRose said:
You cannot help people who won't admit that they have a problem. See this forum
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No, you just paint with a very broad and silly brush. Actual regressive left/Islamism defense dynamics haven't actually entered this thread yet, just your bad description of it.
 
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