nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
That's quite the statement. Very well done, that man. It sounds like he wishes he'd said this sooner.
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Terrorist attack in London [up: 6 people killed, ~50 injured, 3 attackers dead]
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
That's quite the statement. Very well done, that man. It sounds like he wishes he'd said this sooner.
This is true, and while being a bit cold, I agree that stop being rational is the worst thing that we can do. Things will get much worse if we do.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
you're right, we need to wake up and prevent those radical Mosques from sheltering these people, community leaders need to report and not shelter these men!!!!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ssed-opportunities-intelligence-a7755056.html
Never mind that, it's the tolerant left who is causing this rise in extremism.
Not like the UK is being controlled by a conservative government, if they were, we would be seeing far more action!!
CadetMahoney
Member
Doubt the tv news reports on whether they do or not anymore.
naweednrahman
Member
Just saw this BBC interview (via Facebook) that states that a witness saw the van filled with alcohol...
Just to put a bit of perspective from the Muslim side of things. The month we are in now is Ramadan. It's the most important month for a Muslim. Consumption of alcohol alone in this month is guaranteed hell. Not the so called virgin paradise these idiots are striving for.
Lastly the time at which they did the attack is also an important time where men should be at prayer!!
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1476851715706053&id=100001437174953&ref=bookmarks
Just to put a bit of perspective from the Muslim side of things. The month we are in now is Ramadan. It's the most important month for a Muslim. Consumption of alcohol alone in this month is guaranteed hell. Not the so called virgin paradise these idiots are striving for.
Lastly the time at which they did the attack is also an important time where men should be at prayer!!
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1476851715706053&id=100001437174953&ref=bookmarks
"[...] crisis as a result of the cuts. They are being dragged from pillar to post. We hear talk of extra police officers on the street. They are not extra, they are officers that have had their rare leave days cancelled. They've had their twelve hour shifts that are now routinely extended to sixteen hours. They're being drawn from other officers - the officers we see behind us are from Kingston - err, from, Hounslow and Hillingdon. They are not extra officers at all. They are from other duties and they are being burned out."
Sky Interviewer, think it's Kay Burley: But more armed police officers on the streets than ever before we're told?
"Err no - no. No. They're not. Basically people that are alleging that are lying."
KB: So the government is lying? The defence secretary is lying?
"Yes. They funded bringing us back to the number we had in 2010 by 2020. They've got to address a number of issues in order to get there."
KB: The Prime Minister was of course previously home secretary for six years. She has said we need to change the way that we are approaching terrorism in the United Kingdom. What sort of advice - what sort of support - do you think she needs to offer the police service?
"I heard her speech and she raised four things that needed to change, she missed the most obvious urgent one which is to deal with the cuts to ordinary policing. Yes all those other things that she said long term impacts all the rest of it, yes, they are all valid, but what needs to be done, what needs to be done immediately, is reverse and stop and reverse the cuts to ordinary policing. They're needed in intelligence gathering from communities. They are needed in monitoring those 23,000 very low level people that are, in inverted commas, known to the police and security services in their community."
KB: Just to clarify, you say the government is lying about the number of armed police officers that are on the street of the United Kingdom?
"Yes, in 2010 we had 1000+ more, they are, they've put a plan in place, they said they've funded, not totally, they've part funded bringing that up again by 2020. We're not there yet. We saw a brilliant response in London here last night, we saw it in Westminster a month or so ago. We saw it in Manchester a couple of weeks ago. If this had happened anywhere else we would not have seen that response. It is threadbare elsewhere in the country."
The MI5 already know this though. Heck, most people on the media have even said this. Religosity isn't what separates these people from other Muslims.
ShironRedshift
Member
...You do realize it's the Torries who are in power right now, correct? As they have been for some time? The "tolerant left" is wholly irrelevant as far as Parliament is concerned. They aren't the ones making the decisions or calling the shots. Perhaps it's the current right wing-government and their approach, which you guys have been working under for years now and which has been calling all the shots, that hasn't been working at all? Just a thought.
BossDarkseid
Member
Their social media accounts and websites were all happy and cheering when news broke sooo...
-shrug-
RedSparrows
Member
Also not sure ANYONE useful or with sense has ever said 'meh ignore it'.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
You really think the van was full of alcohol because they were drinking it? That FB is conspiratorial.
"They ran over people and someone looked in the van and it was full of alcohol! Drunk drivers?!"
I will always be amazed how London just keeps on moving, moves on isn't the right word. Just went for my Sunday morning bike ride and that involves going through central to head south west. On CS3 (the big cycling lane going east to west, just after Tower Bridge long stretches of roads were closed off or have some police presence. They weren't armed though, so that's something. And once I hit Embankment, Westminster, etc tourists were out in full force standing in the cycling lane as per the norm.
Miles Quaritch
Member
The poster is confusing people saying we won't let this break or change us with meh, ignore it
It's a common theme across most reactionary right-wing sites, twitter pages, etc. When are we going to stop being PC, why aren't we doing more, we need to take action, enough is enough, we can't let them keep doing this.
pigeon interrupted
Member
Not a surprise. Most of the interviews I've seen with active IS fighters they have been off their faces on heroin. I was an addict for 5 years and it's easy to see the signs. These aren't good muslims. They aren't good anything. They are men doing whatever the heck they like, raping, mudering, pretending to be pious off their face on drugs. God only knows what else they have been up to. They have no respect for others or their God. All they want is to feel powerful.
Theonik
Member
The fundamental fact that diverting limited resources elsewhere lowers resources in the place they are diverted from?
It doesn't really matter. Thankfully these attacks aren't well organised enough to be orchestrated with this in mind, and besides, there is only so many good targets.
I bloody well hope the trains are moving on Monday, or there will be riots. Incident was like 100m from where I work
Miles Quaritch
Member
What do we need to change?
BossDarkseid
Member
no one is really tolerant of extremist views though?
I mean isn't it more a case of the police etc simply not having enough resources to keep an eye on people because the number it would require is, financially speaking, practically impossible. And most people don't trust some Guantanamo style black-site to the current government
Also remember that the "Muslim Community" report things all the time, some get followed up on depending on severity and priority but the resources aren't there and even though cuts have made them worse, it'd need to be a reversal of the cuts and then some.
I think he's saying the conservative government that has ruled for years has failed and should be replaced by a liberal/labour/different one that properly funds the police and works harder on integrating people and offering them a brighter future, so that less flock to the hate preachers. He's also arguing for a more open and tolerant society where we approach each other and tear down the barriers between our social circles, so that we further destroy the ground that gives birth to terrorism.
geordiemp
Member
Our laws and civil liberties / human rights should not protect these type of people.
You cant stop every one of those 23,000 picking up a knife or renting a van, its not feasible.
Make it so these people can have 1 way passports (out), they would have difficulty hiring vans, heck put there names up and let society know. There bank accounts monitored, everything.
If they are known but our hands are tied, there is no solution.
holygeesus
Banned
I think you gave him too much credit.
Theonik
Member
Or he's supporting the introduction of thought crimes that would make it easier for the government to deport and/or imprison people it did not like.
TTOOLL
Member
You know what "let's stand together" "let's resume our regular activities" and changing your Facebook photo do?
Exactly nothing. And people are rightfully getting tired of this bullshit.
Impeccable
Member
Your proposal?
GHG
Gold Member
I get what you're trying to say with this, and I actually agree that it's one of the possible long term solutions to the problem, but what can be done in the short term?
That solution means that there is a future reduction in the chances that people will become disenfranchised and therefore prone to radicalisation. However there is already a large group of people who have already been radicalised, what do we do about them? These people are already too far gone, there's no bringing them back, no matter how nice and open to them people might be.
We can't sit back and watch and say "it will all get better in the future if we are nicer and make more effort with them" while there are people known to the auhorities running around causing havoc. That's even ignoring the fact that there is an even bigger problem in that no matter how nice society is to some of these people, they have no intention to integrate.
This is extremely dangerous thought and a hazard for the western law system. Not even police/security services are asking for this. The one thing that isn't scandaleus is already happening afaik (bank account monitoring).
BossDarkseid
Member
People/cost in monitoring them and wtf do you suggest they put them?
Ravensmash
Member
You're saying, let's stop being nice and stop coming together as a society in the wake of tragic events?
are you going to beat them up, tough guy?
Some sort of camp....
geordiemp
Member
23000 is not 1 or 2 people, as soon as I saw the attack on TV my initial thought was there will be raids around barking and dagenham east London.
There is a problem in parts of UK that is tolerated in those areas is my opinion.
I live in south London, yeah I am annoyed. Fuck off.
Theonik
Member
Most of them are very low priority threats. They have also not committed any crimes and there is no evidence that would lead to a conviction.
Say you were to detain them you can't do so indefinitely. And mass incarcerating people like that would cause all sorts of trouble.
The problem is, subscribing to an ideology isn't actually breaking the law.
Hmm, very mature.
Why is this not all over the news?
TTOOLL
Member
It's been repeated here many times. This is radical Islam we are talking about, Radical Islam inside the UK. It's not that hard to infiltrate and shut down places that are spreading hate speech. It's not an attack to the religion, but on extremists.
I believe you would need some kind of bill to allow this, I don't know UK law system.
velociraptor
Junior Member
People who support known terrorist organisations should be investigated and covertly thrown into the sea. I suspect this is the only way such attacks can be prevented.
I also blame the UK media for giving these fuckwits (terrorists) media coverage. Over the years I've seen far too much of the likes of Anjem Chaudry on the fucking BBC.
Do we have any confirmation regarding the suspects of this attack yet?
Wrestlemania
Banned
The internet?
I wasn't really serious. I'll add that it's a very complicated subject and I don't think I'm in a position where I could give qualified advice. I hope that the UK, and of course the rest of Europe, comes out of all of this stronger than before, that we heed the advice of experts on these matters, instead of flocking to people like Farage.
GHG
Gold Member
They already willingly send themselves to "some sort of camp"...
A lot of those people have looked up extremist websites a few times and are flagged up on the system. They are not all engaged in active terrorism. You can't start removing people's civil liberties for looking at a website unless you want to live in an authoritarian police state.
TTOOLL
Member
I'm saying that just doing that won't solve the problem. How many more attacks do you need?
If the ideology they follow is barbaric slaughters of a beheading nature and slaughtering innocent people ?
I havent got an answer for all this but these are on a list for reason either extreme views of or intent to cause something ?
TTOOLL
Member
Physical places, of course. What would make one​ think about shutting down the internet??? C'mon....
GHG
Gold Member
Would it not be better to get them in and assess their intentions and state of mind rather than do nothing but "watch" them while running the risk that they could pose imminent danger to the public?
It should be pretty clear, nobody should go looking around at that shit.
you're advocating vigilantism but you have no idea what that 23,000 number even means. There's absolutely no context to that number and it tells you nothing about who did what where or how. All these knee jerk reactions are short sighted and dangerous and they come up after EVERY attack. people learn nothing. At the risk of sounding cliche, If you think our privacy, society and freedom is so worthless it's not even worth saving then we've lost.
