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[Ashes]

People citing integration issues often just project their own distance from the Muslim community.

e.g. UKIP cite integration as an issue, due to male Muslim extremists Terrorist incidents, but then they target women wearing burkas.

It is all a bit sad seeing people flailing about looking for simple answers when there clear isn't any.

We solved our Northern Ireland issues via the Peace Process, but how do we have peace with an outfit who want to rule the world, and kill anything that gets in the way?

 

[Tagg9]

Here's an eyewitness account. It sounds unbelievably horrific. You can see the poor chap is still in absolute shock.

https://twitter.com/marklobel/status/871174073560248320

 

[hokahey]

Im sick of this shit.

 

[| Praxis |]

Have we tried a general ceasefire in the mid east yet? Maybe once we take Mosul, we can stop bombing there and it'll stop.

And let the next group start ethnically cleansing, enslaving, raping and torturing whilst some of the government's act just as bad, if not worse and the rest not do anything but fan the flames?

Even if we didn't get involved, our way of life is enough to make us targets.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

No, that's not how it works with religiously-motivated terrorism. You try that with politically-motivated terrorism, but religiously-motivated terrorism exists within an entirely different context.

Right but I don't remember this "religiously motivated terrorism" before 9/11 though, not as prolific right?

And let the next group start ethnically cleansing, enslaving, raping and torturing whilst some of the government's act just as bad, if not worse and the rest not do anything but fan the flames?

Even if we didn't get involved, our way of life is enough to make us targets.

I mean if we take Mosul, we get the government back on track, and then train the people, not in a military manner, but in a civic police force manner.

If they're hiding among civilians you need a police force that reflects the civilians, not drone strikes right?

 

[Newline]

One of the most upsetting things is that I don't really know what you can reasonably do to try and prevent incidents like this from happening.

How do we combat suicidal savages that are willing to take to the streets with the most primitive of weapons? Perhaps we should take a look at our foreign policy.

 

[Syder]

Police shouting at people to run as far away as they could get, running past victims lying on the ground receiving emergency medical treatment. I can't imagine the terror those people must have been feeling.

Fuck.

I saw the Bierhall footage and that was scary as fuck too.

 

[ShironRedshift]

You're wrong. Regressive leftists do not say they love ISIS. Regressive leftists defend elements of society that actively seek the destruction of Western civilization. An example would be the accolades directed toward Manchester's 'modern, moderate' Didsbury mosque by regressive leftists, which, it turns out, was 'unofficially' distributing pamphlets that roundly denounced Western ethics and integration into British society by immigrant Muslims. The modern, moderate Muslim mosque was actually prepping the soil for the seeds of radical Saudi Wahhabism, which was the ideology of the Manchester bomber.

Regressive leftists are not inherently evil -- they are actually just so stupid and so brainwashed by their own ideology that they believe that defending fundamentalist Muslims (hijabs, long beards, pants above the ankle) is an aspect of multiculturalism and therefore must be upheld at all costs. It's ultimately a self-correcting problem. Their granddaughters will either be wearing the veil, living under the rule of sheikhs and emirs, or they will emigrate to the United States, Australia, and New Zealand.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow your roll there, mate. You can't just throw something like that out there. You got a source for any of that?

Looking it up myself, I just find this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...dience-member-claims-given-anti-west-leaflet/
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/80...buy-mosque-leaflet-attack-terror-salman-abedi

Seems pure hearsay and no actual evidence whether it's actually in any way linked to the mosque or not. Just the man's word, with no particular reason why he should believed or any evidence that it actually is an official communication of any sort. Am I missing something, or is there any actual evidence beyond the man's word that it's not only real but actually linked to the mosque itself?

 

[Oriel]

Have we tried a general ceasefire in the mid east yet? Maybe once we take Mosul, we can stop bombing there and it'll stop.

Delusional stuff. ISIS will never stop until they've been defeated.

 

[Bobnob]

How do we combat suicidal savages that are willing to take to the streets with the most primitive of weapons? Perhaps we should take a look at our foreign policy.

Stop with this shit pls

 

[AcademicSaucer]

People should be more angry at their politicians that allow and even celebrate the Saudis funding Mosques and Islamic Schools in their countries.

 

[Soldiussnaku]

Have we tried a general ceasefire in the mid east yet? Maybe once we take Mosul, we can stop bombing there and it'll stop.

We can cease fire with Isis, but they wont' cease fire with us. Peace is not in thier doctorine at all.

ANY and all persons not living thier life the way they want them to is an enemy, muslims (especially) included.

They need to be systematically eliminated.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Here's an eyewitness account. It sounds unbelievably horrific. You can see the poor chap is still in absolute shock.

https://twitter.com/marklobel/status/871174073560248320

Yeah I'm going to assume the canisters were fake suicide vests.

Makes one think twice about confronting them even if they're outnumbered.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Delusional stuff. ISIS will never stop until they've been defeated.

.

 

[Syder]

People talking about the 'regressive Left' like it's anywhere close to be as destructive as the regressive/Alt-Right... SMH

 

[Moosichu]

Yes I am not talking in their behalf, I am talking from my own experiences, I am from Colombia, I lived next to the house of both most important political parties in the 90's during the years of Pablo Escobar and when FARC was getting bigger and bigger, I was six when 3 car bombs exploted around my house. I have lost friends, due to these kinds of attacks.

I've seen how a school m8 had to leave the country by himself because his entire family was killed by the FARC just because they deny to pay them a fee.

I have seen how people in your countries glorified assassins like Escobar or terrorist grups like FARC. I have seen how people who killed thousands now live free with a great life without any repercussion yet their victims are dead or forgotten and poor. If you want me to empathize with a killer like this, I will never do it and I will not treat them or consider them on the same level as regular people. Sorry I will never do it.

And let me be clear, I have no political agenda, at all, if there is something I hate is politicians and parties.

I'm not asking for empathy with the killer. Just torture doesn't save the people who are in danger. We want to get as much information as possible and uphold values which are important - which both require not torturing.

I am so sorry for everything you have been through. For what it's worth, I agree with you about the glorification of Escobar, his glorification is disgusting. But it's worth saying that there is a way forward, death and destruction is not the status qup, and there is a way forward.

 

[Linkup]

Random killing of innocents can never be justified. RIP.

 

[shandy706]

Like? What do you feel are things the authorities aren't doing? Why not give examples instead of just saying "something must be done" and nothing else.

Pretty sure if he/she or anyone else had an answer they would actually give one.

Like most people they want it to end, it doesn't mean that he has to have examples.

 

[darkinstinct]

Tell that to the parent of the girl who these guys stabbed 15 times just because she was there.

Doesn't mean they want them to be tortured or killed. Because, you know, they are probably decent human beings.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

People talking about the 'regressive Left' like it's anywhere close to be as destructive as the regressive/Alt-Right... SMH

It's not a competition

 

[KingSnake]

Delusional stuff. ISIS will never stop until they've been defeated.

I agree with this. The problem is that they must be defeated and then the whole region must enter a development program of some sort to limit the resurgence of extremism as much as possible. Unfortunately the very complicated political situation is Syria is not helping even if ISIS is totally defeated in Iraq (which seems not to be that far away).

 

[Herr Schwarz]

We can cease fire with Isis, but they wont' cease fire with us. Peace is not in thier doctorine at all.

ANY and all persons not living thier life the way they want them to is an enemy, muslims (especially) included.

They need to be systematically eliminated.

But, you can't eliminate ideology without replacing it with something else, otherwise it'll keep coming.

I mean think about Afghanistan now, there are people there age 19 that have known nothing but war. What do you think is going to be bred out of that culture, non stop war, for 19 years, except more war?

It'll never stop that's the problem, the more you kill, the more you create. Like shooting the monster in Star Trek it just gets bigger the more energy you expend into it.

We need to erect a government over there, then train their own people to police their own people under a code of laws.

ISIS will be there whatever you do, trying to disrupt and kill, you still gottah proceed.

 

[Juicy Bob]

How do we combat suicidal savages that are willing to take to the streets with the most primitive of weapons? Perhaps we should take a look at our foreign policy.

Absolutely, although I was more talking about preventing the actual nature of these 'random mowing down of pedestrians' attacks that we've seen becoming increasingly common over the last two years.

 

[TTOOLL]

Like? What do you feel are things the authorities aren't doing? Why not give examples instead of just saying "something must be done" and nothing else.

I already said, closing places that spread hate speech is one thing that could help in the long term. The terrorists are all male adults, so be more proactive on them. Look, of course I don't have an easy solution for it. Nobody does.

What I don't accept is just saying "we need to be prepared" for attacks and stand together. It does nothing, it helps nobody.

 

[Meadows]

Is the attack over then?

 

[sflufan]

Right but I don't remember this "religiously motivated terrorism" before 9/11 though, not as prolific right?



I mean if we take Mosul, we get the government back on track, and then train the people, not in a military manner, but in a civic police force manner.

If they're hiding among civilians you need a police force that reflects the civilians, not drone strikes right?

Prior to 9/11, most terrorism in Europe was politically-motivated, even those acts of terror that originated from Middle Eastern groups (primarily Palestinian groups).

The religiously-motivated element of terrorism began sometime in the 1980s in the Middle East after the Iranian Revolution in 1979. During this period, the "secular" political terrorists groups (PLO, PFLP, etc.) began to be viewed as ineffective and extremists moved towards groups with a religious motivation.

Furthermore, during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, it was the notion of a "jihad against the godless communists" that inspired the early forms of the Taliban and al-Qaeda (with funding from Saudi Arabia) to become more prominent.

Once jihad had proved successful against the Soviets, it was only natural turn its attention against the Middle Eastern regimes propped up by the Western powers and ultimately the West.

 

[Durden77]

It's crazy how much people have been using vehicles as weapons in attacks lately. They've always been there but it's really disturbing how this trend has caught on.

 

[Ashes]

I agree with this. The problem is that they must be defeated and then the whole region must enter a development program of some sort to limit the resurgence of extremism as much as possible. Unfortunately the very complicated political situation is Syria is not helping even if ISIS is totally defeated in Iraq (which seems not to be that far away).

Yeah. Short term defeat Isis - target their recruitment on the internet; attack their drug trafficking network; halt their funding.

Long term - build up a government who can deal with this on their turf - basically cut the head off the snake.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Prior to 9/11, most terrorism in Europe was politically-motivated, even those acts of terror that originated from Middle Eastern groups (primarily Palestinian groups).

The religiously-motivated element of terrorism began sometime in the 1980s in the Middle East after the Iranian Revolution in 1979. During this period, the "secular" political terrorists groups (PLO, PFLP, etc.) began to be viewed as ineffective and extremists moved towards groups with a religious motivation.

Furthermore, during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, it was the notion of a "jihad against the godless communists" that inspired the early forms of the Taliban and al-Qaeda (with funding from Saudi Arabia) to become more prominent.

Once jihad had proved successful against the Soviets, it was only natural turn its attention against the Middle Eastern regimes propped up by the Western powers and ultimately the West.

And funding from the West.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Prior to 9/11, most terrorism in Europe was politically-motivated, even those acts of terror that originated from Middle Eastern groups (primarily Palestinian groups).

The religiously-motivated element of terrorism began sometime in the 1980s in the Middle East after the Iranian Revolution in 1979. During this period, the "secular" political terrorists groups (PLO, PFLP, etc.) began to be viewed as ineffective and extremists moved towards groups with a religious motivation.

Furthermore, during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, it was the notion of a "jihad against the godless communists" that inspired the early forms of the Taliban and al-Qaeda (with funding from Saudi Arabia) to become more prominent.

Once jihad had proved successful against the Soviets, it was only natural turn its attention against the Middle Eastern regimes propped up by the Western powers and ultimately the West.

Right but the Jihad happened against Russia because of Russia moving into the area and actively fucking with the region right? Then they left and we moved in?

I mean I think the point is these people breed when there is no big government to clamp down on them, we need to nursemaid governments in these countries in a very white glove hands-off fashion. Get a police force going. They're hiding among the general populace, drone strikes just won't get the results.

 

[sflufan]

Delusional stuff. ISIS will never stop until they've been defeated.

What makes you think that it's possible to defeat the Islamic State, or whatever successor group will inevitably rise from its ashes?

After all, the Islamic State is simply derived from the Al-Qaeda in Iraq organization that was just about "defeated" during the surge by the US military starting in 2007.

 

[Newline]

Absolutely, although I was more talking about preventing the actual nature of these 'random mowing down of pedestrians' attacks that we've seen becoming increasingly common over the last two years.

I don't think there is actually any other means of dealing with these attacks while maintaining a free and liberal society. Draconian and authoritarian measures could but then in my eyes we'd have lost everything worth fighting for.

 

[Breakage]

Here's an eyewitness account. It sounds unbelievably horrific. You can see the poor chap is still in absolute shock.

https://twitter.com/marklobel/status/871174073560248320

I'm surprised he remains as composed as he is despite seeing all of that. How do people keep calm and carry on as if nothing's happened when they encounter mass-murdering psychopaths motivated by religion? I think it's very ease to suggest such a thing when you're not caught up in an attack. I know my outlook would change if I had a snarling, knife-wielding mad man trying to kill me in the name of god.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

I think this chart is very interesting (although missing attacks past September 2016, which there was quite a substantial number of to be honest):

Going by this, things are not exactly getting worse but rather...back to what they were.

 

[sflufan]

Right but the Jihad happened against Russia because of Russia moving into the area and actively fucking with the region right? Then they left and we moved in?

It's a bit more complicated than that. If this is a subject that interests you, I suggest that you start to do a bit of research to understand the dynamics of Islamist radicalism and the myriad of factors that influence it.

 

[Syder]

It's not a competition

I don't disagree.

Just not sure why a discussion about why the 'Left' is or isn't enabling terrorism has a place in this thread.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

It's crazy how much people have been using vehicles as weapons in attacks lately. They've always been there but it's really disturbing how this trend has caught on.

It's unfortunately relatively cheap to do, with relatively little to stop it. Any vehicle capable of speeds greater than 30 miles per hour is a potential battering ram that hides in plain sight.

Hence any means of actually 'stopping' such attacks has to be more aimed at the people themselves, not their equipment. Because these people don't need anything more than what they can get at a local dealership.

 

[Ashes]

Is the attack over then?

Helicopters flying above still. Sirens too. To be clear roads are a mess with traffic. So it might be that the ambulances just need to have them on more for ordinary emergencies.

 

[Game-Biz]

Have we tried a general ceasefire in the mid east yet? Maybe once we take Mosul, we can stop bombing there and it'll stop.

They think that God is disgusted with the world and that it needs to come to His order. And they are the ones that feel they must carry out his will. They are delusional and are willing to kill themselves and anyone else to do what they think is right and good. You can't work with that.

 

[KingSnake]

After all, the Islamic State is simply derived from the Al-Qaeda in Iraq organization that was just about "defeated" during the surge by the US military starting in 2007.

Because the Americans decided to correct a mistake (Iraq War) with an even bigger mistake (retreat as fast as possible without any thoughts about what happens next in the region). Which should be avoided hopefully next time.

 

[dose]

NHS statement, at least 20 have been taken to 6 hospitals.
Terrible news.

 

[Joe]

Terrorism related deaths per month in western Europe from 1970-2015

Terrorist attacks in the UK since 1970

Terrorirst attacks in the UK that targeted private citizens since 1970

 

[The Greek Freak]

People should be more angry at their politicians that allow and even celebrate the Saudis funding Mosques and Islamic Schools in their countries.

Ding ding ding this wahabi garbage is where basically all this shit comes from religiously

 

[Herr Schwarz]

They think that God is disgusted with the world and that it needs to come to His order. And they are the ones that feel they must carry out his will. They are delusional and are willing to kill themselves and anyone else to do what they think is right and good. You can't work with that.

Yes but they interpret what is around them through the Quran right? So these people in Afghanistan, uneducated, perceive everything through their religion, all they see is violence, drone strikes and death.

I don't get what you think they should be thinking outside of total war?

 

[facetheslayer92]

Wikipedia says there were 58 deaths from Islamist terrorist attacks in 2009 compared to hundreds or even thousands from other years. Was the Middle East, dare I say, "stable", around this time?

 

[Meadows]

Helicopters flying above still. Sirens too. To be clear roads are a mess with traffic. So it might be that the ambulances just need to have them on more for ordinary emergencies.

It was the same in Manchester, sirens and helicopters all night for 8-10 hours after until it settled.

 

[darkinstinct]

Yeah. Short term defeat Isis - target their recruitment on the internet; attack their drug trafficking network; halt their funding.

Long term - build up a government who can deal with this on their turf - basically cut the head off the snake.

So same thing that has happened in the last thirty years. Look how well that worked. These people want to be left alone. Building a government is the shit that is the whole reason for islamic extremists. They don't want us infidels to get involved in any way. As long as that still happens they will exist. What started this mess is us forcing our values upon them. Mainly so we can do business with them.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

So this is the part of the thread where people start bringing up the IRA and posting graphs that try to imply this kind of incident is relatively small in the grand scheme of things. Same thing happened two weeks ago after the Manchester attack. It's not helpful.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

People should be more angry at their politicians that allow and even celebrate the Saudis funding Mosques and Islamic Schools in their countries.

Could you post a link detailing the official links between these mosques and terrorist attacks? Thanks!

 

[eizarus]

Im sick of this shit.

Seriously. I wish all these cunts would drop dead.

Condolences to London. Stay strong ❤️