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The 3rd Super Robot Wars Z - Jigoku-hen |OT| Localized when hell chapter freezes over

Yeah, I thought tag tension would help balance it out but it's way worse than continuous action was in Z2. All of the units worth using seem to either have some ridiculously stupid map attack or have an All attack as one of their strongest attacks. Makes it completely trivial to just keep chaining them together.
 

zeroshiki

Member
I am annoyed that everything seems so sluggish with this game. Its like I'm trying to run underwater >_> I miss the snappiness of the PSP games.
 

Shouta

Member
I thought they had a limit on the multi-action like I heard originally but I guess not. it seems to fizzle out after 2-3 times though because I think they implemented a penalty for gaining tag tension repeatedly.
 

Shouta

Member
Hah, I'm at stage 24 and the roles reversed for Kamille and Shinn. Kind of a nice call back from Z1. =o
 
I thought they had a limit on the multi-action like I heard originally but I guess not. it seems to fizzle out after 2-3 times though because I think they implemented a penalty for gaining tag tension repeatedly.

I'm pretty sure it's because you're gaining too much EXP and overlevelling.

You get 1 Tag tension star for destroying 2 enemies in a team, and 1 star everytime a member of your team levels up.

That's why Guren and Wing Zero are nuts - their P map attacks allows them to keep destroying 2 teams with every attack so they don't need to worry about overlevelling.

On the other hand, stick someone with a powerfull ALL with a newbie who hasn't been trained in forever and watch those Multi-Actions rack up.
 

Jubern

Member
Multi-action IS crazy. I did the Endless Waltz finale this morning and shit was ridiculous with my Wing Zero at 50% + Weapon Lvl 5. Not to mention EVERYONE starting at 120 morale, what the hell lol

These Serpents just had no chance. It was by far the easiest and most straightforward stage in the game so far for me.

Also, I haven't bought anything in the D-Trader yet, save for a Booster early on... And those items are ridiculous. I'm thinking about not touching that but it's really tempting ahah.
 

Naite

Member
Just for the hell of it, I bought Gain maker in the d-trader, equipped it to a team that could move 10 spaces, killed everyone on the map except for 1 enemy, and moved that unit around for around 200 turns while watching some streams/videos on the side. Earned about $800k from that. Had enough to buy 50% upgrade bonuses for all my regular deployed units.
 
The D trader parts look pretty broken. Seeing how they nerfed full upgrade bonuses, I'm starting to think an additional parts slot might be the best FU bonus.

The balance is really funny: they removed continuous action as a purchasable skill but the tag action command might have made things worse. It kind of feels like I'm playing G Generation sometimes lol.

I am annoyed that everything seems so sluggish with this game. Its like I'm trying to run underwater >_> I miss the snappiness of the PSP games.
Did you set the piece moving speed (on the map) to fast? I remember that's the first thing I noticed when I played the game, how slowly your units move on the map.
The fights are still slowish though, I'll concede that.
 

Lucis

Member
I don't think there's a final say on how the IF route is triggered yet, some people think it might have to do with turn count and SP. who knows...

Started today at stage 21 around 1pm, played until midnight... only finished stage 28 (given I did eat dinner and do some small things in between)

So far full SR and min turns (as low as I can get it)

Butler at 60 kills so 20 more to go and I'd never have to use it to kill shit ever again
 

zeroshiki

Member
Did you set the piece moving speed (on the map) to fast? I remember that's the first thing I noticed when I played the game, how slowly your units move on the map.
The fights are still slowish though, I'll concede that.

Its not really one thing that's slow. Everything is sloooooooooooow. The split second hesitation before a character moves, when you start a fight, before an animation starts, everything just feels laggy and its is super aggravating. As someone who makes it a point to watch all animations, its enough for me to hate myself for playing this game sometimes.
 
So far I have to say that in my experience this game has been heavily dominated by real robot shows. Sure Tetsujin 28 gets a couple of stages, and Aquarion Evol has its' despite how hard I try to pretend they don't exist. Despite all of that the overall plot seems to be dominated by FMP and Gundam.

Oh and linking the route split to turn count is bullshit and a dick move if true. Considering that they have significantly nerfed pilot's SP in this game.
 
Like most RPGs there are a few things you can utilize to break the game's balance/difficulty. Not a big surprise honestly. Fully upgrade Kallen or Hiiro's weapons and spam their MAP + move again to wipe out most grunts quickly.

There's a recent PS3 patch that's supposed to cut down load times.
 

zeroshiki

Member
I also want to complain how the MC, let's call him Gary Stu, is so badass that he can fight Sosuke evenly and even break all of Sosuke's booby traps AND devise and execute a plan in 30 minutes that was so complicated it was able to outwit a Mithril soldier.

This is Exhibit freaking 1 why I hate OGs >_>
 
Naaaah.

That would have been the case if say Hibiki went 3 on 1 in an autistic child soldier grand slam showdown against Heero, Sosuke, and Sestuna and beat all of them combined. Yes the game plays up the competence of the OG character a bit and kind of attaches him to a lot of the plot but it's not like he is perfect.

He is certainly doesn't manage to come off as perfect as Ing does in a game full of OG characters. Who by plot demand manages to assemble overpowered robots with his mind and flip the table on the antagonists and then gets huge buffs on top of that just so he can wreck everything in his plot stages.

Edit: Also Sosuke is kind of a fuck up. Even in his own show. His abilities and competence decline sharply the further things get away from "piloting a several meter tall metal killing machine".
 

Lucis

Member
MC used to be a dimension beast hunter, which does require some wit and skill I'd hope.

Also he trained REALLY hard during the begining part of the game.

I actually don't have a problem with IF being tied to turn count. They really don't expect people to reach IF until second play anyways. But with my min turn approach (which takes a bit longer) with full SR, it got to the point that the game is not any harder than any other previous SRW, I actually got to the point where full powered unit can sweep trash mobs with all attack (lol chirico's unit at full upgrade with + crit component is O to the P)
 

Beckx

Member
Man I gotta spend some time looking at the objectives more. Almost screwed myself at the end of Stage 27 (left an auto-lose character sitting vulnerable to the boss).

Fully upgraded Shin Mazinger Z with the gate Z-chip part makes me smile.
 

Shouta

Member
I'm pretty sure it's because you're gaining too much EXP and overlevelling.

You get 1 Tag tension star for destroying 2 enemies in a team, and 1 star everytime a member of your team levels up.

That's why Guren and Wing Zero are nuts - their P map attacks allows them to keep destroying 2 teams with every attack so they don't need to worry about overlevelling.

On the other hand, stick someone with a powerfull ALL with a newbie who hasn't been trained in forever and watch those Multi-Actions rack up.

Oh yeah, derp. Forgot lol

Some of these stages really need it though. I've had to use it to get far enough to kill certain enemies or clear enough like the EW stage. i've only got a few units upgrade and I'm sitting on 1.3 mil creds, lol
 
Naaaah.

That would have been the case if say Hibiki went 3 on 1 in an autistic child soldier grand slam showdown against Heero, Sosuke, and Sestuna and beat all of them combined. Yes the game plays up the competence of the OG character a bit and kind of attaches him to a lot of the plot but it's not like he is perfect.

He is certainly doesn't manage to come off as perfect as Ing does in a game full of OG characters. Who by plot demand manages to assemble overpowered robots with his mind and flip the table on the antagonists and then gets huge buffs on top of that just so he can wreck everything in his plot stages.

Edit: Also Sosuke is kind of a fuck up. Even in his own show. His abilities and competence decline sharply the further things get away from "piloting a several meter tall metal killing machine".

Later on I believe they discuss that Hibiki has lost to some of the other pilots like Alto when training in simulators too, so there's that.
 

Lucis

Member
Oh yeah, derp. Forgot lol

Some of these stages really need it though. I've had to use it to get far enough to kill certain enemies or clear enough like the EW stage. i've only got a few units upgrade and I'm sitting on 1.3 mil creds, lol

wait
huh?
what?
why!?
 

Lucis

Member
Because there are no units I want to upgrade?

which stage are you on now?

o.o

pretty much by stage 30 you get most of the main units.

I have fully upgrade:

MC's Genion
Heero's Wing
Sagara's Alberest
Chiroco's Voltom
Karen's Guren

(you can pretty much tell which route split I am taking after)

I am going to upgrade Strike Freedom, 00, Unicorn during/after the next split.

1.3m is a lot, that's like 2 unit FUB i think? XD
 

Shouta

Member
26. Not everyone goes nuts and spends every credit they get. That's what no-upgrade runs are for and the like. I just don't have any units that I want to upgrade yet.
 
I always have plenty of credits in reserve, in case of emergency upgrade situations.

The existence of the custom bonus has caused me to upgrade to at a least 50% for more units than I would in previous games, which isn't a bad thing imo.
 

CorvoSol

Member
Naaaah.

That would have been the case if say Hibiki went 3 on 1 in an autistic child soldier grand slam showdown against Heero, Sosuke, and Sestuna and beat all of them combined. Yes the game plays up the competence of the OG character a bit and kind of attaches him to a lot of the plot but it's not like he is perfect.

He is certainly doesn't manage to come off as perfect as Ing does in a game full of OG characters. Who by plot demand manages to assemble overpowered robots with his mind and flip the table on the antagonists and then gets huge buffs on top of that just so he can wreck everything in his plot stages.

Edit: Also Sosuke is kind of a fuck up. Even in his own show. His abilities and competence decline sharply the further things get away from "piloting a several meter tall metal killing machine".

It's actually a plot point in the end of the series that Sousuke isn't hyper competent. The final boss, as it were, spends his final speech pointing out that Sousuke isn't even as good as Mao, Kurz and Closeau, let alone himself.
Of course it's entirely possible he is exaggerating since his entire goal with that speech is to get Sousuke to give up being a child soldier and live a normal life.

Course I also think that Sousuke being messed up at anything but combat situations is the point of his character. Like, to stress why being Heero or Setsuna would screw a guy up really badly.
 
It's actually a plot point in the end of the series that Sousuke isn't hyper competent. The final boss, as it were, spends his final speech pointing out that Sousuke isn't even as good as Mao, Kurz and Closeau, let alone himself.
Of course it's entirely possible Kalinin is exaggerating since his entire goal with that speech is to get Sousuke to give up being a child soldier and live a normal life.

Course I also think that Sousuke being messed up at anything but combat situations is the point of his character. Like, to stress why being Heero or Setsuna would screw a guy up really badly.

I haven't watched FMP at all but
is he really supposed to be that bad in the end or does Sousuke power up after that speech? I don't want to reveal stage spoilers so I'm just wondering.
 

Jubern

Member
Be careful, what Corvo is talking about is very, very late FMP spoilers, something that hasn't even been hinted at far as the anime adaptation went (and thus Z3-1, since it only covers the anime).

(talking more about the final boss than Sosuke's skills)
 

CorvoSol

Member
I haven't watched FMP at all but
is he really supposed to be that bad in the end or does Sousuke power up after that speech? I don't want to reveal stage spoilers so I'm just wondering.

Without going into spoilers, the main idea is that when we first meet Sousuke, he's a competent soldier. The problem is he's not an outstanding one. Mao is a better Tactician, Kurz is a better shot, and Closeau is a better fighter in hand-to-hand combat. Gauron is a better killer, Leonard is a better mech pilot, and pretty much everyone is better at blending into a society than Sousuke. It's not that Sousuke sucks, its that he's not an unstoppable badass killing machine.

The final boss plays that point up a bit, but he has a specific reason to do so I won't go into since it's sorta huge spoilers. They do point out that where Sousuke excels is sheer grit, though.
 
I see. That makes more sense.

I haven't played in a few days so I need to pick up where I left off.

Also, does anyone re-organize their groups so everyone has access to accelerate?

Last time I played I spent about 30 minutes mulling over how to get my teams setup so they would compliment each other in addition to having accel on everyone. It seems for certain SR's it's mandatory (to have at least some teams with it).
 
Without going into spoilers, the main idea is that when we first meet Sousuke, he's a competent soldier. The problem is he's not an outstanding one. Mao is a better Tactician, Kurz is a better shot, and Closeau is a better fighter in hand-to-hand combat. Gauron is a better killer, Leonard is a better mech pilot, and pretty much everyone is better at blending into a society than Sousuke. It's not that Sousuke sucks, its that he's not an unstoppable badass killing machine.

No, he's a Burning One Man Force, or BOMF for short.
 
I see. That makes more sense.

I haven't played in a few days so I need to pick up where I left off.

Also, does anyone re-organize their groups so everyone has access to accelerate?

Last time I played I spent about 30 minutes mulling over how to get my teams setup so they would compliment each other in addition to having accel on everyone. It seems for certain SR's it's mandatory (to have at least some teams with it).

Just Ace Zechs.

You'll thank me later.
 

Naite

Member
Mission 55 spoilers:
Unlike SRW J and W, they didn't ditch the De Danaan and now it can go into space. Too bad the animations still show missiles with a trail of water bubbles and leaving a watery surface. Also felt weird how they did Sousuke's final fight with Gauron for the second time, especially after all the TSR stuff was over with over 15 missions ago. I think they even repeat a voiced dialogue of Sousuke's.

Finally got Platinum emblem. Equipped it on a team of Qant and Big O with SP parts. Stacked a ridiculous amount of turns with the plat emblem + multiaction + awaken + attack again.
 
I see. That makes more sense.

I haven't played in a few days so I need to pick up where I left off.

Also, does anyone re-organize their groups so everyone has access to accelerate?

Last time I played I spent about 30 minutes mulling over how to get my teams setup so they would compliment each other in addition to having accel on everyone. It seems for certain SR's it's mandatory (to have at least some teams with it).
I used to do this, but I'm at a point where I'm already leaving units I want to use on the bench. Can't be bothered to deploy crap like the Konig or Black Ox just to make sure everyone has Accel.

Though like Pureauthor said, acing Zechs makes this a non-issue. He's up there with the butler and Tieria as having one of the most useful ace bonuses.
 

Lucis

Member
Man, ever had the time that you thought you saved some where in the stage, then something happened you are like, "man I can do better." reset and reload then realize you not only did not do a quick save on that stage, you didn't even save on the previous intermission and go like

F*************************** UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

And it wasn't even a big thing, just a small mistake that lost you one unit.
 

Naite

Member
Man, ever had the time that you thought you saved some where in the stage, then something happened you are like, "man I can do better." reset and reload then realize you not only did not do a quick save on that stage, you didn't even save on the previous intermission and go like

F*************************** UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

And it wasn't even a big thing, just a small mistake that lost you one unit.
I never forget to save during intermissions, but I often forgot to save deep into a mission. Generally stopped caring about losing units after getting Roger and his negotiator ability. I kept losing Banagher and my Geass units due to random one shot attacks from certain enemies too often.
 

perorist

Unconfirmed Member
I usually only quick save if I've gotten to a critical point (last turn etc.) of getting an SR point. Otherwise regular save at each intermission.
 
Just Ace Zechs.

You'll thank me later.

I used to do this, but I'm at a point where I'm already leaving units I want to use on the bench. Can't be bothered to deploy crap like the Konig or Black Ox just to make sure everyone has Accel.

Though like Pureauthor said, acing Zechs makes this a non-issue. He's up there with the butler and Tieria as having one of the most useful ace bonuses.

I just looked up their Ace bonuses.

Oh my god.
 

Lucis

Member
anyone know if the shoot down count gets passed to new game + at 50/75/100% rate like money/zchip/pp or is it 100% from the first get go?

that would make acing butler and zechs a lot more worth it (i have zechs teamed up with heero, so he doesn't get many kills at all lol)
 
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