The part where they wanted to experiment on disabled veterans was a bit glossed over as well besides that one line by the OsCorp dude.
The Amazing Spider-Man |OT|
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The part where they wanted to experiment on disabled veterans was a bit glossed over as well besides that one line by the OsCorp dude.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Well however you want to rationalize it. That's probably what Sony would say is continuity now too.
But as that scene was filmed, him
falling into the water wasn't him dying
dies by drowning in water, you would have shot it differently and emphasized that he was dead.
There should be no surprise why people didn't "get" that
he died
It's not a plot hole when the director cut the scene and leave the scene as it was. He's such a minor, irrelevant character that I don't see the difference between seeing him post bridge scene or not. The way it was framed it implies "Well there goes the lackey". End of story. And obviously Webb didn't see it as a big deal either. Now, you can call it a foresight on his part but if there is one, I'd say Flash lack of clear transition between his earlier stance to his final stance is the one that needs more scenes to make it obvious why he and Parker ended up like that at the end.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The reigning theory is not that his last scenes were cut because he was irrelivant.
He was cut because he was very relevant to the original plot, and was intended to be part of the revelation about Parker's parents.
That scene was cut because the studio decided to lobotomize the plot reveal about the Parkers due to test screenings. I'll bet you Webb himself wouldn't have made this choice, and is secretly unhappy about it.
Minor character? He was in Connor's face and fired him and Connor wanted revenge. Connor not killing him or him not getting away felt so unresolved.
I think you are right.
Welcome to the club, please take a seat to the right.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Good Job Bob
Member
The only way this parents subplot could possibly ever interest me is if they were connected to SHIELD and they used it as an entry point for Spider-Man joining The Avengers, but that's never gonna happen so FUCK IT.
Elginer
Member
Saw this today and was quite a disappointment for me. For a film called The Amazing Spider-Man he sure as shit wasn't very amazing. It was missing the fantastical feel of SM1 that Raimi pulled off so well. It also had way to much teen drama that and the announcement of his name as Spider-Man was weak sauce as hell. All in all, I just didn't like it. Sure, it was acted well enough but it had some plot holes the size of the macktruck.
Glad some folks enjoyed it though.
Glad some folks enjoyed it though.
Also the promotional campaign and advertising strategy was so asinine, they basically showed the whole movie. From the first frame to the last, even the fucking mid-credits scene. No wonder Sony went after that guy who put together the 28 minute mini-movie from the trailers, spots, teasers, extended preview etc. Easily the worst campaign for a super-hero movie ever.
How much of
revenge you expect to see? Killing him via throws into water does the job efficiently. Plus he's just Oscorp mouthpiece. No matter what happens to him, there'll be another lackey to replace him.
rollingstart
Banned
People quote Webb as saying he put out the movie he wanted to, as if he'd say "At least they fucked us after we filmed it. Poor Raimi."
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yup. Webb can't say shit. Putting aside contracts, this is his career-making big break, and he probably wants ASM2 as well as other big jobs.
And interesting point about Raimi: clearly Sony has meddled in these movies to their great detriment before (Spiderman 3!) That's probably what happened again with this last-minute cutting business.
matt360
Member
Did the retcon from OMD also take away Pete's organic webshooters? Also, how are they fixing it? Are Pete and MJ back together?
thecouncil
Banned
connor realized that
he needed to turn everyone into lizards
AgentChris
Member
I think most comic book/blockbusters have studio meddling. Except for the big names; like Christopher Nolan. After Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2, you would think Sony/Marvel/Arad would let Raimi do his thing... I guess with the amount of money poured into these projects, they feel much obliged to meddle.
I can't answer about the webshooters. They are fixing it VERY slowly, they brought in a new writer and he is trying to fix it, and the thing about MJ and Peter is that
When the Retcon happened it also had harry come back to life, he was in Europe or some shit instead of being dead, So MJ is still with Harry, and Peter is dating another girl who name escapes me
So yeah, its getting fixed, slowly.
krameriffic
Member
Yes.
I feel like there was a distinct lack of friction between Peter and Connors, and that it sort of just went from 0 to 60 when they finally figured out who each other were. One of the strengths of the Green Goblin in the first Raimi movie was his connection to Peter, and the way that he tried to tempt Spiderman to his side by explaining that the people will hate him no matter what he does. It added a lot of tension and depth when he finally found out who Spiderman was.
I was constantly asking myself "why does the Lizard want to kill Peter?" Something about Peter's DNA or situation made his transformation stable and without side effects. Shouldn't the scientist in Connors want to understand that better and exploit it? Shouldn't he be looking to enlist his help on some level? I'm left with the horrible feeling that Connors was left alive and Peter's parents secret was cut so they could explore this stuff more in the sequel, which is just the worst kind of audience manipulation in a feature film.
I was constantly asking myself "why does the Lizard want to kill Peter?" Something about Peter's DNA or situation made his transformation stable and without side effects. Shouldn't the scientist in Connors want to understand that better and exploit it? Shouldn't he be looking to enlist his help on some level? I'm left with the horrible feeling that Connors was left alive and Peter's parents secret was cut so they could explore this stuff more in the sequel, which is just the worst kind of audience manipulation in a feature film.
All of these plot details feed into something else I was feeling the whole time I watched the movie: they blew their load on a particular dramatic element that I consider to be very important in masked superhero movies, and that is revealing the hero's identity. It's a dramatic moment when that happens in the Raimi films, and nobody really finds out who he is until the second and third ones. Compare that to this where
Gwen, Connors and Dennis Leary all find out in the first movie. And it's hinted at that Aunt May is onto him as well.
Agent Unknown
Member
So what's the general consensus, is this movie worth paying theater price to see or will I not be missing much by holding out for a Bluray rental? I want to have the desire to see this movie but it's just not happening. I still don't see why Sony thinks I should be excited for a reboot of the first flick.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That's tricky. I almost hate to say it.. but it might be fine if you wait. It's not awful... but must-see? Naw.
Good Job Bob
Member
Emma Stone is Sony's golden girl, they're not going to allow her to be killed off -- what I'm guessing they'll do is introduce MJ and kill her off.
AgentChris
Member
Reading up on Gwen Stacy; in Spider-Man 1 the bridge scene with MJ is what we should expect in ASM3?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I disagree greatly.
Gwen Stacy getting killed is the whole point of
Parker's promise to Captain Stacy
Maybe it'll be in the next movie or the third, but Emma Stone isn't going to be "Sony's golden girl" forever.
The Death of Gwen Stacy is one of the most famous events of all comic books... and I think you can view ASM as trying to lead up to it.
Yes, probably. But in this case, in a choice between Gwen or some innocent civilians, Spidey will only be able to save one of them.
Such a cheat in the 2002 movie. "You can only save one".... and then he just saves both cuz he's so awesome and whatever
Agent Unknown
Member
That's what I thought, thanks.
I was kinda bummed Dylan Baker never got to play the Lizard in Raimi's movies, all those scenes with Dr. Connors and no pay off....
TheKaeptain
Banned
Gwen will die at the end of the third movie.
AgentChris
Member
XANDER CAGE
Member
Why did Peter need Connors to pull him up the building when he's fucking Spider-man?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Her death changes everything about spider-man. you know from the end that
Peter and her are going to get back together
The thing about writing in a potential MJ is that, that have to find someone that has chemistry with Garfield that is on par to better than what he has with stone when they a both on screen. Which is difficult in of itself.
AgentChris
Member
The Lizard broke his web shooters. I think he would have free falled from the top of Oscorp. He didn't have a grip on the building until Dr. Connors reached out and grabbed his hand.
Good Job Bob
Member
Nice crystal ball you got there--does your taste ever get better in the future?
Emma and Garfield will have broken up by then so they won't have to worry about that.
XANDER CAGE
Member
sure, but he has his mutant spider hands. I can see Connors needing to grab him to pull him closer to the building or something, but other than that the scene is entirely pointless because Peter can grip the building.
rollingstart
Banned
Yes to Felicia. The epic conclusion to the wall crawler legend should include Black Cat and Venom.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Call me when you've actually seen more than 10 movies in your 16 years of life.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Age it up appropriately for the inevitable time gap and Andrew Garfield will actualy be playing his age.
Good Job Bob
Member
So I take that as a no? What a shame.
Yeah, I'd prefer Black Cat as well, and I guess I could see them foregoing MJ to further differentiate themselves from the Raimi trilogy.
TheKaeptain
Banned
You don't know me dude.
krameriffic
Member
About the after-credits scene: The Amazing Spiderman tie-in game apparently takes place after the events of the movie, and Connors fits into the story somehow. All I know of it is from the Giantbomb quicklook that I watched, and I don't really know if it's canon or not, but that's a place to look for info on the events that follow the movie.
Good Job Bob
Member
Okay.
The game also apparently includes a-lot of references and whatnot to a bunch of genetics stuff that was cut out the movie.
I'd make the same call too if I thought this new trilogy was being created for any artistic purpose at all, but I don't. It's a cash grab and it's 100% business oriented. If people keep loving Stone's Gwen as much as they do she'll stay on for thirty films, because fuck telling a good story.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
In 5 years, a good guess for the release of ASM3, she'll be nearing 30 and they'll want to find a new "it girl" no doubt.
I read this one:
http://badassdigest.com/2012/07/05/was-the-untold-story-cut-from-the-amazing-spider-man
Talking about all the cut stuff.
I want THAT movie!
TAS was pretty great, but the original movie they had sounded fantastic, and ACTUALLY DIFFERENT.
Its like they got cold feet at the last second and re-cut the film to be more like the comics/first Raimi movie.
Like a CEO just woke up one morning: "PEOPLE WILL HATE THIS MOVIE CUZ THEY DONT UNDERSTAND THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT!" and then demanded the movie be butchered.
EliteArtist
Member
It just angers me that some of the more interesting information got cut. Obviously, there was a plan with the story elements and chances are they were working towards a pay off in a sequel or trilogy, but now that Sony has essentially altered the course of the franchise, what I fear we are going to get is a shitty plot device coupled with it playing out in all the wrong ways by delaying the audience with information. It's most likely going to be dragged out.
It's not like the information was hard to understand either... "Peter. You thought your spider powers were an accident. Well guess what. They aren't. Your parents did something to you" Who can't grasp that? Seems pretty straight forward to me and it leaves them room to flesh it out in sequels. C'mon Sony. C'MON.
It's not like the information was hard to understand either... "Peter. You thought your spider powers were an accident. Well guess what. They aren't. Your parents did something to you" Who can't grasp that? Seems pretty straight forward to me and it leaves them room to flesh it out in sequels. C'mon Sony. C'MON.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Agreed.
And I don't even think that original movie would be perfect... but I know that it is, at least, a more coherant vision.
I don't like this simplified, "safe" version with all kinds of plot threads that don't make sense and aren't resolved properly.
I've even heard it speculated that a lot of the shittiness in this movie (ie "Property of Peter Parker") might have been to mop up the broken plot after they butchered the parents' story thread.
I walked out of the theater liking the movie, I knew there were a few things that didnt make sense, but I still liked the movie, as it was mostly just a few things that were sorta explained but kinda vague, overall I really liked the movie.
But now, im rewatching the entire movie in my mind and it feels worse. All those sorta explained plot holes and dumb moments stick out very vividly cuz now Im like 'oh... OH ok, now this makes sense!' and its pissing me off.
The original movie sounds so much different, and now I can really REALLY see where it was all supposed to fit in with the final cut, and now I really dont know how to feel about the movie.
They were ready to take a gamble with a fresh new take, but then did a complete 180 and played it safe by mimicking as much of Raimis first movie as they could and condensing everything like crazy.
I wish I didnt know bout all this cut content cuz it kinda makes me hate the movie when i originally liked it, im conflicted now.
Good Job Bob
Member
I think this was mentioned earlier in the thread, but it also seems like they hastily added that news article Peter found while "binging" which said his parents died in a car crash. I mean, he doesn't even react to finding out his parents are dead, and NOWHERE else in the movie is it ever made to imply that they're dead; quite the contrary, actually, as Peter asks where is his father now in the big argument scene with Uncle Ben.
I'd be interested in seeing the original cut to see if it's a more coherent film, but I doubt they'll ever release it.
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