I thought that is exactly why he was saying that, to reiterate that his father lived his life that way but he died as a result
The Amazing Spider-Man |OT|
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I thought that is exactly why he was saying that, to reiterate that his father lived his life that way but he died as a result
TheKaeptain
Banned
99% of comic movies are cash grabs with no artistic intent. They're all safe and by the numbers. It's stupid how people only point it out whenever speaking about his movie.
That is exactly what happened. Good blow Job just lacks the understanding, the attention span, and comprehension to see that is what they were saying in that scene.
Good Job Bob
Member
I've considered that, but the whole thing still just seems off to me.
Even if you took it that way, the complete lack of anything signifying that his parents died in the rest of the film is still odd.
What? I don't only point it out talking about this movie. The influence of business is present everywhere in film. But you know as well as I do that there's a point where commerce and art can meet. TASM felt so made-by-committee that I have trouble saying Webb or anyone on it had an artistic goal, it was all an effort to be a good consumer product. The Raimi films were idiosyncratic enough for me to feel that commerce and art had worked in harmony well enough.
Yeah, they never talk about it before or after that scene. The argument with Uncle Ben made it sound like he thought his parents abandoned him and just left and it was all a mystery.
The recut explains why there is so much unexplained vagueness to this movie and why stuff is kinda just forgotten.
Also, the fact he was on Bing and not Google instantly took me out of the movie, no one uses Bing, especially not someone whos supposed to be an expert with computers and technology.
It was just one of those things in movies where normally they would be using Brand X but are using the less popular Brand Y and its very apparent who paid for product placement.
Good Job Bob
Member
Bing should be No. 1 on anyone's list of problems with TASM.
It is for me.
1. Bing was in the movie.
2. Emma Stone did not have a nude scene.
3. I thought Dennis Leary was Willem Dafoe and got super confused.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
I believe 'cash grab' is being used in regards to Spider-Man because it's felt that the movie was put on a fast track towards development without ensuring there was an executable screenplay.
That's the worst part about this. It feels like he didn't properly consider whether the script had any merit for him to work with or whether the movie was something he could actually deliver on. He jumped on the chance simply to move on to other big projects. When I listen to this guy give interviews and talk about the franchise, I don't see any passion or real understanding.
How is this any different than almost all big Hollywood movies ever made ever?
Personally, those short skirts and thigh-stockings > nude.
Everytime she was on-screen in one of those outfits, I adjusted myself.
Hopefully you had the pop corn tub on your lap so no one saw.
Also I just remembered a really small but odd continuity error.
When Peter shot a bit of web at Gwens ass and spun her into his arms so they can kiss, after they part ways you can see her butt and there is no trace of webbing at all. Isnt that shit like high powered super glue? Wouldnt it ruin her clothes? Where did it go?
He probably used a lighter strand/web shot, since he has different thicknesses and whatnot (how he got Lizard in a cocoon/webbed his wound, etc). That wasn't the worst part of the scene though, it was how was he wearing the shooters in the first place. They should've shown a quick shot of him meddling with his wrists as she was walking away, to show he was putting them on/lowering the button onto his palm.
He tried to keep the promise but it made her pissed for a while, so that end line shows they're going to be back together again. It's guaranteed to come back and bite him in the ass when
she inevitably dies on his watch
i dont remember him ever making different types of webbing, im sure he did but i dont think it was ever explicitly shown/said.
Also the after credit thing was super confusing. I thought the Lizard was hallucinating and seeing the crazy serum part of his brain manifest itself into a man in a trench coat, but the new info about the cut footage says it was supposed to be an Oscorp agent? OK if it wasnt his mind playing tricks on him, who the fuck was that dude. And if it was a mirage, i hate that they pretty much just ripped off Green Goblin from the first movie.
Whats with Spiderman villains and split personalities?
Harrys dad/Green Goblin
Dr. Octavius/metal tentacles
Eddie Brock/Venom
Dr. Connors/The Lizard.
All 4 movies have had a bad guy that has to battle some separate personality/organism thats trying to take over their minds.
Also the after credit thing was super confusing. I thought the Lizard was hallucinating and seeing the crazy serum part of his brain manifest itself into a man in a trench coat, but the new info about the cut footage says it was supposed to be an Oscorp agent? OK if it wasnt his mind playing tricks on him, who the fuck was that dude. And if it was a mirage, i hate that they pretty much just ripped off Green Goblin from the first movie.
Whats with Spiderman villains and split personalities?
Harrys dad/Green Goblin
Dr. Octavius/metal tentacles
Eddie Brock/Venom
Dr. Connors/The Lizard.
All 4 movies have had a bad guy that has to battle some separate personality/organism thats trying to take over their minds.
Drugula's Wrath XXX
Banned
Just got back from seeing it.
I think Andrew Garfield was a great Spider-Man, better than Tobey for sure. Emma Stone would have been the perfect MJ but she definitely brought it as Gwen Stacy. The writing was decent enough even though its aimed more at the teen audience, very Ultimate Spider-Man like.
I think Andrew Garfield was a great Spider-Man, better than Tobey for sure. Emma Stone would have been the perfect MJ but she definitely brought it as Gwen Stacy. The writing was decent enough even though its aimed more at the teen audience, very Ultimate Spider-Man like.
I like how they set up Gwen's death in the sequels, you just know it's going to happen.
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
Rather than kill Gwen in the third I think it'd be better to introduce MJ as a buddy for Peter in ASM2 and have Green Goblin kill her at the end, ASM3 focusing on MJ.
Oh well. Stone's Gwen will be too popular for that to happen.
Oh well. Stone's Gwen will be too popular for that to happen.
The Elite
BOSS
I'm assuming this is what the plan is. Makes the most sense. You need the third film to focus on the emotional impact of Gwen's death on Parker. The fact that he broke his promise to Captain Stacey is also a big part of that. His being Spider-Man basically destroys a family. That's the direction they need to takes this. MJ will definitely be in the sequel. Hopefully played by Mary Elizabeth Winstead.
MidnightCowboy
Member
Caught Spider-Man 2 and 3 on FX this weekend. They're both still awesome. I'm glad my favorite superhero has great movies.
They're contrasts to Peter, who uses his superpowered personae to cut loose and be a good, responsible, person.
Whereas he used the accident as an excuse to do good, his villains use their accidents as an excuse to let loose their evil impulses.
Raonak
Banned
I don't like the web shooters.
Im not super knoledgable I don't know why the creators of spiderman (the original comic) decided that he would get spidey sense, super strength and clinging to walls, but had to make web shooters.
It really detracted from spiderman. Anyone could become spiderman if they were given his webshooters. (no clinging though)
which was made worse in the movie since it was a mas produced product.
I get being able to shoot webs origanically would be unrealistic, but any more so that clinging to walls, tbh.
--
also.
-Toby was a better peter parker,
-Andrew Garfield was a better spiderman.
Im not super knoledgable I don't know why the creators of spiderman (the original comic) decided that he would get spidey sense, super strength and clinging to walls, but had to make web shooters.
It really detracted from spiderman. Anyone could become spiderman if they were given his webshooters. (no clinging though)
which was made worse in the movie since it was a mas produced product.
I get being able to shoot webs origanically would be unrealistic, but any more so that clinging to walls, tbh.
--
also.
-Toby was a better peter parker,
-Andrew Garfield was a better spiderman.
Exactly right. I really hope they have the balls to do it though. I'll be pissed if they don't tbh.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Killing off Gwen in the second film would be way too early. But then again, they sure as hell can't end the third film and the trilogy with the death of Gwen Stacy. It's a tough one.
This reminds me, in Raimi's Spider-Man, was anyone else super nervous when GG was holding MJ on top of the bridge, threatening to throw her off? I was sure that she was going to die. In hindsight, it was really intelligent of Raimi, because he had changed the story enough for the comic fan to understand the context, but not exactly know what was going to happen. Great scene too.
The Elite
BOSS
The whole point is that it happens suddenly. It should be sooner than later so you can carry that shock into the third film so the impact of that moment is given proper time to play out.
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
Besides, if she dies like in the comics, people will really be caught off guard since they already saw Peter succeeding in SM1.
Her death should be a powerful moment, because it was one of the most industry changing moments in comics.
Her death should be a powerful moment, because it was one of the most industry changing moments in comics.
Why not? It wouldn't be the last ASM movie, no doubt there'd be a fourth and fifth (as Raimi planned).
And about MJ, it's hard to remember exactly, but I don't think I expected her or anyone to die there. Seemed to brutal/unrealistic for someone to die like that in the first movie, when they only just got introduced. I do remember her being in danger on the balcony falling along with that bridge scene, gave me a sense of Raimi trying to portray that a bit.
But the scene itself didn't feel similar enough to the Gwen sequence in the comics for me to instantly think of the similarity, tbh.
I really hope they don't botch it. They also need to toy with her actual death, as in does her neck snap from the web or was she already dead when she fell.
It should be a tear-inducing performance from Gwen/Garfield regardless.
Remember that for Gwen to die, it needs to be done by GG. And the second film is too early for that imo. I'm guessing first/second act of ASM3 if they do it.
Makes sense, just seems to be a lot of them. the gimmick gets kinda stale after so much.
The mechanical web shooters i think are just a handy plot device. 'oh no, out of web fluid! how will Spidey get out of this!' plus he can make special fluid that does other shit too.
But I do agree, he doesnt get the defining characteristic of a spider? I mean he can climb on walls and is agile and strong, but so are other bugs. Web spinning is the main thing a spider does, but he doesnt get that power. I really liked that in the Raimi movies, it made more sense. Plus, i always thought Peter could like, inject his wrists with various chemicals to alter his organic webbing glands or something, so you could still do some different things with various types of webbing even with organic web shooters. I also think they will probably abuse the running out of web thing, like if you need to add tension to a scene, spidey runs out of web. but you could do that with organic web shooters too, i mean, its not infinite is it? can the glands make infinite web? i dont think people really think about what could have been done with the organic web shooters and just got pissed cuz it wasnt like the comics even though it makes more sense.
so im assuming we dont have worry bout spoilers so imma stop using them.
why was there a giant room full of spiders. there was no cages or anything. it was literally just a giant column of webbing with spiders on it. all he did was touch something and the spiders went crazy and covered him in seconds. whats stopping the spiders form leaving or crawling all over the room.
it kinda pissed me off. 'ok this is when he gets bitten, just have him wander into a room with a bunch of spiders, ok next scene.'
Anyone else miss Elfman's theme? To me, that score is synonymous with Spiderman.
YES.
ASM's score was horrendous. Elfman's Spidey theme is Spidey.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
I understand that point, but I just have zero faith in getting the pacing right given the standard structure of super hero films. I don't know if the impact will be there, whether it'll feel rushed, and how they would proceed with MJ without making Peter's grief for Gwen seem shortlived.
Her death alone is a really heavy subject matter, and in the life of a kid who has known so much of it already, I can't help but feel that there's no way a super hero film could realistically portray it, especially one that has to try reaching out to kids. You could mention the Dark Knight, but Bruce Wayne is a grown ass dude and not fragile Peter Parker. Having said that, I suppose if there's ever a tale about having to grow up fast, this would be it.
I really don't see Garfield sticking with the franchise for more than 3 films.
eh, Sheen was serviceable for the role. Nothing more. Same goes for Leary. Neither were the star of ASM, though, so they did what was needed.
I think people (esp. gamers) are letting their biases get the best of them with the Bing complaints. It's barely shown...something that you'd almost have to be looking for. Same goes for the Sony cell phones Parker used. It was just a regular cell phone to me.
The bigger complaint should be that Parker is never really show to be this "expert with computers and technology" in the movie. Oh, so he has a special door lock he can control with his computer. whoopdeedo. The webslinger creation took, what?, maybe a minute on screen.
Seems like an accurate depiction of the real world to me. Most people would reveal their monstrous urges if they were suddenly given superpowers.
For every 1 person who WOULD be good there'd be 10 who would abuse the power.
i remember the Bing logo being huge and taking up a pretty big part of the screen. it was giant blue letters on a white background that popped up really suddenly, my eye was immediately drawn to it and my first thought was 'Microsoft had to pay them to do this.'
I never noticed the Sony phones.
I know that. my complaint is that its always some external consciousness trying to take over their brains and consume them, not just them going crazy with power.
Spidey just got physical enhancements, while Conners got voices in his head telling him to do shit and powers that were together over powering his mind and taking control of his body, theres a difference.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
I didn't have as much a problem with Bing as I did with all the websites he visited which looked damned fake and 10 years too old.
Well his father did die about ten years ago so that seems right.
lol
I thought the Bing thing was fine, barely even noticed it. I did notice the phone placement during one scene where a random guy is shooting video of peter running along a wall.
Eh, not always. The movies often used it for a cheap easy-to-digest motivator for the audiences (who wants a complex villain?)
We'd have people complaining that Conners' motivation wasn't clear ENOUGH if they'd taken the tougher road of not having Goblin-esque talking to himself.
In reality most of Spidey's villains do it because they're just power-drunk assholes. Which, in itself, would get stale. There's been a subtle move in comics lately to add layers of psychological disorders to villain motivators, too.
Besides, the whole point of Spiderman is that he ALSO became a power-drunk asshole and eventually it costs him greatly, which snaps him into becoming a hero.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The original Spider-Man movies was announced as a nine picture series, so it's not out of the question. First three with Gwen, next three with Felicia Hardy, final three with MJ. Spider-Man has such a rich history and it would be good to see villains span across more than one movie, possibly across different trilogies.
So was Star Wars at one point.
Anton Sugar
Member
No. I was bemused for 75% of the movie when it came to the score.
Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
more movies give mysterio and hobgoblin a chance at being a villain so i am all for it
One thing is sure with this movie, James Horner have been a real slacker with the main theme of AMSM. Seriously guys, who haven't shuddered at this openning?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ5Irvc4Je8
oh god ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ5Irvc4Je8
oh god ...
Spider-Man 2 has one of my favorite opening ever. The music combined with the picture recap of Spidey 1. It was so good.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Yeah, Sony need to get a new composer in. Elfman would be great, even if he just rips off his prior work in SM.
thecouncil
Banned
SPOILER WARNING, SPOILERS BELOW ... That should be clear enough, no complaining! We're basically discussing spoilers without tags at this point anyway, but regardless...
Anyway, I saw the movie again so I thought it was time I could rap up my thoughts more precisely. Specifically addressing the issues (that most of us had) with the movie, but still mentioning what I enjoyed.
ORIGINS
Arguably the best act of the movie, was ironically also the one that we have (sort of) seen the most before. The difference here is that Peter is actually struggling with who he is, and how he can use these new abilities. Unlike previous iterations where Spider-Man is born out of either the pursuit of wealth or fame, here it is literally birthed out of the pursuit of revenge. I think this actually works really well here. The pursuit of Ben's killer inevitably is a dead end, but he hurts a lot of people (maybe not innocent) in this pursuit than he did before. There's a clear crossroads where he sees that he has the power to actually help people versus pursuing his selfish vendetta of finding the killer. It also comes back to the great exchange about revenge with Ben at the school. Slowly he realizes this, and turns SM into a persona of actual good-doing (at the bridge).
As to actual origins, the web shooter invention sequence was definitely disappointing imo. Felt way too rushed, as they barely even show how it happens. Using broken watches from the basement (Ben's I assume) doesn't come across clear enough, nor does how he got his hands on the web fluids being manufactured by his fathers old lab/compartment at Oscorp. This is one of those things that felt like there were aspects missing. Garfield's performance is basically the only thing that allowed this tiny sequence to be pulled it off.
The actual Spider-Man built up was good, but like the web shooter bits, the reveal itself felt rushed. Specifically the first-person sequence. I almost remember the teaser trailer version looking/feeling better than this. I liked how they showed the nerds talking about SM's velocity and whatnot, then him searching for suit materials and finding spandex for any sport that requires speed. The short snippet of him embossing the Spidey logo was also good. But the actual first-person sequence should've been longer. But it was all topped off nicely with the rooftop scene (in daylight) and the 'organic eggs' errand from May. :lol
PETER PARKER / SPIDER-MAN
Andrew Garfield is an excellent actor, which is a breath of fresh air for someone portraying a character with the complexities of Peter Parker. Without this cast, specifically Garfield, I don't think the movie would have pulled anything off as well as it did. I also believed his tears and rage (like when Stacy died, yet another death on his watch) more than I did Peter's so-called depression and outbursts in Raimi's versions.
As a character though, I am sort of disappointed that they didn't emphasize his intelligence more. That's not to say he isn't already bounds smarter than Tobey's Parker, but it felt like they made him act like he was smart more than he really was. Like the cross spices genetics comment at Oscorp. He had just read that when searching about Conners and his father, so it wasn't exactly some genius idea on his part. Neither was the decay algorithm, which he basically copied from his fathers notes (see the deleted scenes at the end of this post for more on that). Also as I said in the origins bit, him creating the web shooters was a missed opportunity that would've balanced out those acts of half smarts with actual intelligence. I still liked that he wasn't a doofus, but they could've played with this more.
I really did love the portrayal of revenge-driven Peter, though. His joys, screams, laughs, and anger all felt buyable in a way they were never before. Him being inherently good still comes through. More of a loner than a geek (sort one in the same these days), his inherent goodness still comes through, but his newfound abilities at the same time as Ben's death is what steers him into using it for his own selfish means.
As for Spider-Man, this is the best we've seen yet. That alone may make this movie better than the old versions, for some. Even though the Spidey action sequences were great, and always had a root of Peter in them in some form, it felt like we didn't see enough Spidey. Whereas Raimi's movies were about Spider-Man being a guy named Peter Parker, this felt like a movie about Peter Parker having this Spider-Man persona. That's definitely a plus, but it leads to us seeing less of it.
The way Spider-Man moves is also nailed, and I think Garfield shines here as well. He is no longer just a strong guy who can also stick to walls and jump far. He is literally a spider MAN. Some bits in the movie seem to actually hint that Peter himself is a cross-specieis, maybe even from his childhood, but more on that in the delete scenes section. Another aspect I loved about this Spider-Man is that while he felt weaker at times, he also felt stronger. If that makes any sense. I mean that he has these heightened abilities, but is still more human than in Raimi's. It felt overall more grounded. His intelligent use of web shooters was also something I felt they nailed over previous versions, how SM naturally used them to his advantage in-action. Overall, it's great that the arguably most important part of the movie was also probably the best part of it. Oh and the suit was great in-motion, no worries there.
Back to Peter though, and how he deals with Stacy's "keep Gwen out of it" request.. I think they should've done more to emphasize that there was decent amount of time that went by between that night, Stacy's funeral, Gwen visiting his house, and them actually being in school. I don't think it made him seem like an ass to deny her fathers' wishes, when she herself knew about them and was pissed off about it. I personally liked the "but those are the best kind" line in class, and Gwen slowly smiling. It's obviously a foreshadowing, but at the same time it shows that they're just teenagers in love and you can't honestly believe they'll split for good over over that.
GWEN STACY
Emma obviously pulled this off well. It was also great that for once, there wasn't a damsel in distress and it wasn't someone Peter loves (Hint: May/MJ from every other SM movie). Some have said that they didn't get why Gwen was so attracted to Peter or seemed like she was throwing herself at him, but it seems obvious. Apart from just naturally gravitating toward one another, they're both intellectuals and relate on that level.
I think the scene that made some people feel they didn't buy it, was where she encounters Peter in the hallway and sees his "rash" and randomly invites him to her house. But I think this was mainly due to it being obvious (hoodie and all) that he was still grieving Ben, and this was her trying to cheer him up. They could've done more to make that obvious, imo. There is a scene with both of them in class, and Gwen sees Peter slouched over wearing his hoodie and doodling. Another issue with pacing, but that short snippet before cutting to them walking in the hallway would've made it obvious that she saw he was 'out of it' and tried to get his mind off of Ben by inviting him over.
Only scene that felt off with Gwen was the Spidey reveal. The lead-up was great, funny, etc, but the actual reveal with him shooting his web and spinning her around was sort of lame and almost cheesy. Also, how does he have his web shooters on? I can understand in the school that as he runs to Lizard, he's putting them on, but here there's no lead up. He just shoots all of a sudden. As she was walking away, they should've shown a quick shot of him fiddling with his wrists putting them on.
Overall though, she is a perfect Gwen and the dialog and interaction with Peter was believable. We actually see 'love' in this movie and not some random drama and attempts at being in love.
UNCLE BEN / AUNT MAY
Generally speaking, Uncle Ben arc in this movie left more of an impact than in SM1 imo. And I don't just mean the death itself, but the actual character and portrayal of responsibility. Sheen nails the whole 'blue collar' uncle, and his dialog with Peter are great. You really feel Ben has the right to be angry at Peter, and that this kid is just careless at times without realizing who he's effecting. Ben is simple minded, but a good man nonetheless.
There's a sense with both Uncle Ben and Aunt May in this movie that they don't unconditionally love Peter like they were depicted in SM1. They aren't his parents here, nor are they his grandparents. They are his aunt and uncle, and while they love him, there's still a tone of "you're living under our roof and you play by our rules". This greater rooted the film as well as emphasizing Peter's aloneness.
As for the actual death scene, I think it was handled well even if it felt like it happened so fast. The burglar nonviolently stealing as well as helping out Peter was an indicator of who Peter could become if he wanted to. When the guy runs off and the clerk is shouting to stop him, Ben finds himself in the position to do so, no questions asked. He didn't know what he did, just that he had a gun and someone in the distance is calling to stop him. So he took action, and it resulted in his death. It wasn't exactly Peter's fault like it was in SM1, but it still had the same toll, if not a stronger one.
However, the one issue most people had with the dialogue is the seemingly conveniently nice voice mail Ben had left Peter, even though we only saw him being angry with Peter. It makes sense though, as that voicemail was probably left before he realized Peter hadn't picked up May and he was feeling sort of guilty for lashing out at him at the school, so when Pete didn't pick up, he left a sort of uplifting message hoping that he would hear it and solve their little tension. There wasn't enough emphasis put on that in-between state of Ben's emotional state. They definitely should've had a short scene with Ben leaving a voicemail to Peter to emphasize that. Not a big deal, just a little plot thing that didn't have to feel so out of place.
Also, Aunt May and her "secrets have a cost, they're not for free, never have been and never will be" line was almost taken straight out of Ult. SM. She's sort of insinuating that secrets get people hurt, while at the same time implying that if you live under my roof and that shit isn't going to fly forever. Oh and I don't think she knows who he is, just that there was a crisis in NY and he got caught up somehow.
CAPTAIN STACY
I liked Denis Leary here. Nothing amazing, but he pulled off Captain Stacy well, not to mention the father role (his 'wtf' face at the Gwen emotional disaster/coco scene). The interactions he has with Peter, specifically the dinner conversation, were great in that it gave insight into his standpoint as to why this SM character is troubling for them, and at the same time exposes his one track mind and defensiveness to the police force. The reveal and capture of SM was a great scene, and even if the actual unmasking felt a bit rushed, I did like the reveal itself to Stacy.
His highlight should've been in the final act, but it was somewhat short-lived, despite him being a badass in that scene. His actual death was handled well though, as was his request for Peter to stay away from Gwen. Definite foreshadowing of future events in that one line, "You're going to make enemies, people are going to get hurt. Sometimes the people closest to you". Practically prophetic if you ask me.
DR. CONNERS / LIZARD
As a character, Conners was great. Ifans performed it all just fine. As a villain however, it falls a bit short. First of all, Conners injecting himself with the antidote after his argument with Dr. Ratha, felt a bit rushed. However, I do love the reflection scene as it portrays his urge, and how he's so tempted with the solution right in front of him. He then takes the plunge.
One thing they should've elaborated more on it how when the serum wears off (which he solves by upping the dosage) that he's still a cross-species. This is why the lizards are all attracted to his location, as the dominant male or something. It is also obvious from the video he takes, and the voices in his head even before he transforms, that he isn't 'cured' when it wears off. Having one eye yellow or his pupil lizard-like would've went a long way to show this point.
Speaking of the voices in his head, I liked what they were trying to portray in that scene, which is a scientist question the moral and ethical implications of something, but the voices in his head were lame and felt off. Especially off was the last scene when he turns in to the Lizard and walks toward the camera, he isn't the one who screams "Peter" but it's the voices in his head instead. Felt very jarring there.
The way he finds out it's Peter was pretty stupid, with the whole 'property of peter parker' label. The camera idea was great, with it shooting every time a web is pulled, but I didn't buy that Peter would be stupid enough to keep that label on. They should've made it a digital camera and shown Lizard looking through the previous shots, and seeing what else was on the camera roll, like a picture of him and Gwen at the high school, or something. That would've played well with the HS scene next, as well.
Back to Conners' motives, why did he save Peter at the end and turn all good? I'm guessing the cure, but as I said before, they don't do enough to differentiate him being cured versus the drug wearing off, as either way he looks human. Meh villain overall, but I bought the whole Conners motives aspect and enjoyed the action itself.
THE SCORE
As far as setting a tone goes, this was probably the worst part of the movie. With everything in the movie feeling more grounded and realistic than hilariously cheesy, the score here felt like it was made for a Spider-Man 4 from Raimi than it did this reboot. It was good for some scenes, but generally speaking it was jarring. Some action scenes especially, and even dramatic ones, felt hindered by the score. I also feel like the main theme played a bit too much. I feel like Elfman's great score in SM1 is what grounded all the cheese with a sense of drama and importance, almost countering or balancing the tone. Here it does the opposite, countering the groundedness of the movie with overdramatized melodies that don't fit in a lot of sequences. Again, it feels like this score would have fit far better in a Raimi sequel than it did here. Not horrible, but definitely not good.
PLOT
A lot of this comes down to the last minute meddling and cuts of the movie, which i'll elaborate on in the section below, but some of it is just poorly executed. Let me cover the whole crane stuff first, since a lot of people had issues with it. Firstly, as some have said, it isn't THAT bad. The whole thing with the crane guy being the one on the bridge from earlier, is not an issue. More emphasis should've been put on the fact that Peter had been shot in the leg though, before he webbed it up. Anyway, the entire news was on TV (SM trying to head towards Oscorp, wounded, etc), so apart from the crane guy coincidentally being the one manning the crane (out of several) that SM lands on on when his jump falls short, it wasn't a big deal. What I didn't like was the fact that they felt the need to show the giant US flag behind that crane guy, although admittedly subtle and quick, it just wasn't needed. Also, the spotlight was cool apart front he fact that it pointed from him to the crane like it was trying to tell him something. The only real plot hole here is the fact that he could've just swung onto the copter, which they stupidly showed earlier in the movie, instead of using the cranes.
The third act was rather anti-climatic in terms of an actual confrontation with Lizard and SM. There was no real life or death battle between the two, but rather a reliance on the ganial device. The entire SWAT scene was so out of place (due to a deleted scene I think, covered in the section below), but what's worse it that the SWAT infection felt so non-threatening. It looked awesome, but it only seemed to effect a few people. They should've shown a breakout in that part of the city with Lizard people running around, since that would have made the actual antidote cloud feel more impactful than saving several random SWAT guys.
Oh and I had no issue with the 'product placement' tbh, the Bing thing especially. That felt fine. The only parts where it felt like they were pushed it was with the obvious shot of a Sony phone (after the Stacy introduction scene), where some pedestrian takes a video of SM running across a wall after dropping the baddie at the police station. Spidey playing a game on his phone while waiting for the booby traps to trip, was also sorta obvious but not a big deal since the scene was funny and didn't feel like random placement.
THE 'UNTOLD' STORY / DELETED SCENES
It's practically guaranteed at this point that there were last minute changes, either order by Sony executives due to fear of the origin retelling being too risky, or because Marvel had a beef with it. Who knows, but it's obvious from the pacing that some stuff was omitted.
For those that don't know, the rumors were (and supported by all the marketing insinuations) that Richard Parker was on the verge of a breakthrough with cross-specifices genetics, but like they did with Conners in the film, Oscorp threatened him that they should begin human trials and urged to cure Osborn. To cut to the chase, supposedly Richard had genetically altered his son and stowed away/kept the formula hidden within Peter's DNA. They ran away out of fear from Oscorp, and we assume were killed (in the movie, apparently from plane crash, but that scene seemed shoehorned in). The genetically engineered spiders in Richard's old Oscorp lab is what triggered the inherent abilities within Peter, when he was bitten. He literally is a cross-species like Conners, but a successful one in that there's more human than spider within him. The original plot had more to do with this, as Peter's blood playing a part in the cure/antidote.
Anyway, there seems to be a ton of deleted scenes (based on the trailers, clips, tv spots, etc), but these are the 'important' ones that stood out most to me in their absence.
Peter and Conners in front of a chalkboard full of equations where Peter completes the decay algorithm. In the movie he just writes it on a piece of paper in Conners' kitchen, which he just memorized from his father's work. There's also a "you're obviously very bright, like your father. You remind me of him" line (and a "ready to play god" line, but I think that was exclusive to the trailers) that was cut.
Gwen telling Peter "my father has five hundred officers looking for you" was supposed to fit right after the Gwen coco scene and Peter persuading her to take her swinging around. She would argue with that line, he would say "that seems a bit excessive" (also cut) and then straight to them swinging. Also missing is the two of them actually swinging around. We get a super quick snippet of that, but there is cut footage of this, as well as them landing together on a rooftop. All gone!
Peter encountering Lizard in the sewer labs with Dr. Ratha (Irfan), telling him "Do you think what happened to you was an accident?" and "Do you know what you really are?" as well as Conners telling him "If you want the truth about your parents, Peter, come and get it". This was all in one scene, where Conners transforms into the Lizard in front of Peter, and Ratha probably gets killed (probably seemed too violent/one too many deaths in the movie, as well as saving Irfan for future movies). I think this is accurate as to how it would've went. This scene also would have also led into the (random) swat ambushing Lizard scene somehow, so it wouldn't have felt so random for the swat to arrive right where Lizard was coming out.
Webb has said we'll get 3 or 4 deleted scenes on the DVD, but i'm guessing those won't even involve the heavy plot deviation stuff, but rather the simple removed bits (like Gwen and Pete swinging). I can't wait for them to cover what they removed here more in the sequel. It's obvious the spider bite wasn't that simple..
So overall it was good, but some things felt missing or rushed. The great characters and awesome Spidey bits will balance that out for most people, but not for all. Some will like it better than everything Raimi did, others won't. In general, I think it's barely better/equal to SM1 despite some of the shortcomings, since it also did a lot right. Stll a notch below SM2 imo, but obviously bounds better than SM3.
The sequel has a lot of potential to be truly amazing (no pun), especially given more flexibility and creative freedom with this risky reboot out of the gate.
Anyway, I saw the movie again so I thought it was time I could rap up my thoughts more precisely. Specifically addressing the issues (that most of us had) with the movie, but still mentioning what I enjoyed.
ORIGINS
Arguably the best act of the movie, was ironically also the one that we have (sort of) seen the most before. The difference here is that Peter is actually struggling with who he is, and how he can use these new abilities. Unlike previous iterations where Spider-Man is born out of either the pursuit of wealth or fame, here it is literally birthed out of the pursuit of revenge. I think this actually works really well here. The pursuit of Ben's killer inevitably is a dead end, but he hurts a lot of people (maybe not innocent) in this pursuit than he did before. There's a clear crossroads where he sees that he has the power to actually help people versus pursuing his selfish vendetta of finding the killer. It also comes back to the great exchange about revenge with Ben at the school. Slowly he realizes this, and turns SM into a persona of actual good-doing (at the bridge).
As to actual origins, the web shooter invention sequence was definitely disappointing imo. Felt way too rushed, as they barely even show how it happens. Using broken watches from the basement (Ben's I assume) doesn't come across clear enough, nor does how he got his hands on the web fluids being manufactured by his fathers old lab/compartment at Oscorp. This is one of those things that felt like there were aspects missing. Garfield's performance is basically the only thing that allowed this tiny sequence to be pulled it off.
The actual Spider-Man built up was good, but like the web shooter bits, the reveal itself felt rushed. Specifically the first-person sequence. I almost remember the teaser trailer version looking/feeling better than this. I liked how they showed the nerds talking about SM's velocity and whatnot, then him searching for suit materials and finding spandex for any sport that requires speed. The short snippet of him embossing the Spidey logo was also good. But the actual first-person sequence should've been longer. But it was all topped off nicely with the rooftop scene (in daylight) and the 'organic eggs' errand from May. :lol
PETER PARKER / SPIDER-MAN
Andrew Garfield is an excellent actor, which is a breath of fresh air for someone portraying a character with the complexities of Peter Parker. Without this cast, specifically Garfield, I don't think the movie would have pulled anything off as well as it did. I also believed his tears and rage (like when Stacy died, yet another death on his watch) more than I did Peter's so-called depression and outbursts in Raimi's versions.
As a character though, I am sort of disappointed that they didn't emphasize his intelligence more. That's not to say he isn't already bounds smarter than Tobey's Parker, but it felt like they made him act like he was smart more than he really was. Like the cross spices genetics comment at Oscorp. He had just read that when searching about Conners and his father, so it wasn't exactly some genius idea on his part. Neither was the decay algorithm, which he basically copied from his fathers notes (see the deleted scenes at the end of this post for more on that). Also as I said in the origins bit, him creating the web shooters was a missed opportunity that would've balanced out those acts of half smarts with actual intelligence. I still liked that he wasn't a doofus, but they could've played with this more.
I really did love the portrayal of revenge-driven Peter, though. His joys, screams, laughs, and anger all felt buyable in a way they were never before. Him being inherently good still comes through. More of a loner than a geek (sort one in the same these days), his inherent goodness still comes through, but his newfound abilities at the same time as Ben's death is what steers him into using it for his own selfish means.
As for Spider-Man, this is the best we've seen yet. That alone may make this movie better than the old versions, for some. Even though the Spidey action sequences were great, and always had a root of Peter in them in some form, it felt like we didn't see enough Spidey. Whereas Raimi's movies were about Spider-Man being a guy named Peter Parker, this felt like a movie about Peter Parker having this Spider-Man persona. That's definitely a plus, but it leads to us seeing less of it.
The way Spider-Man moves is also nailed, and I think Garfield shines here as well. He is no longer just a strong guy who can also stick to walls and jump far. He is literally a spider MAN. Some bits in the movie seem to actually hint that Peter himself is a cross-specieis, maybe even from his childhood, but more on that in the delete scenes section. Another aspect I loved about this Spider-Man is that while he felt weaker at times, he also felt stronger. If that makes any sense. I mean that he has these heightened abilities, but is still more human than in Raimi's. It felt overall more grounded. His intelligent use of web shooters was also something I felt they nailed over previous versions, how SM naturally used them to his advantage in-action. Overall, it's great that the arguably most important part of the movie was also probably the best part of it. Oh and the suit was great in-motion, no worries there.
Back to Peter though, and how he deals with Stacy's "keep Gwen out of it" request.. I think they should've done more to emphasize that there was decent amount of time that went by between that night, Stacy's funeral, Gwen visiting his house, and them actually being in school. I don't think it made him seem like an ass to deny her fathers' wishes, when she herself knew about them and was pissed off about it. I personally liked the "but those are the best kind" line in class, and Gwen slowly smiling. It's obviously a foreshadowing, but at the same time it shows that they're just teenagers in love and you can't honestly believe they'll split for good over over that.
GWEN STACY
Emma obviously pulled this off well. It was also great that for once, there wasn't a damsel in distress and it wasn't someone Peter loves (Hint: May/MJ from every other SM movie). Some have said that they didn't get why Gwen was so attracted to Peter or seemed like she was throwing herself at him, but it seems obvious. Apart from just naturally gravitating toward one another, they're both intellectuals and relate on that level.
I think the scene that made some people feel they didn't buy it, was where she encounters Peter in the hallway and sees his "rash" and randomly invites him to her house. But I think this was mainly due to it being obvious (hoodie and all) that he was still grieving Ben, and this was her trying to cheer him up. They could've done more to make that obvious, imo. There is a scene with both of them in class, and Gwen sees Peter slouched over wearing his hoodie and doodling. Another issue with pacing, but that short snippet before cutting to them walking in the hallway would've made it obvious that she saw he was 'out of it' and tried to get his mind off of Ben by inviting him over.
Only scene that felt off with Gwen was the Spidey reveal. The lead-up was great, funny, etc, but the actual reveal with him shooting his web and spinning her around was sort of lame and almost cheesy. Also, how does he have his web shooters on? I can understand in the school that as he runs to Lizard, he's putting them on, but here there's no lead up. He just shoots all of a sudden. As she was walking away, they should've shown a quick shot of him fiddling with his wrists putting them on.
Overall though, she is a perfect Gwen and the dialog and interaction with Peter was believable. We actually see 'love' in this movie and not some random drama and attempts at being in love.
UNCLE BEN / AUNT MAY
Generally speaking, Uncle Ben arc in this movie left more of an impact than in SM1 imo. And I don't just mean the death itself, but the actual character and portrayal of responsibility. Sheen nails the whole 'blue collar' uncle, and his dialog with Peter are great. You really feel Ben has the right to be angry at Peter, and that this kid is just careless at times without realizing who he's effecting. Ben is simple minded, but a good man nonetheless.
There's a sense with both Uncle Ben and Aunt May in this movie that they don't unconditionally love Peter like they were depicted in SM1. They aren't his parents here, nor are they his grandparents. They are his aunt and uncle, and while they love him, there's still a tone of "you're living under our roof and you play by our rules". This greater rooted the film as well as emphasizing Peter's aloneness.
As for the actual death scene, I think it was handled well even if it felt like it happened so fast. The burglar nonviolently stealing as well as helping out Peter was an indicator of who Peter could become if he wanted to. When the guy runs off and the clerk is shouting to stop him, Ben finds himself in the position to do so, no questions asked. He didn't know what he did, just that he had a gun and someone in the distance is calling to stop him. So he took action, and it resulted in his death. It wasn't exactly Peter's fault like it was in SM1, but it still had the same toll, if not a stronger one.
However, the one issue most people had with the dialogue is the seemingly conveniently nice voice mail Ben had left Peter, even though we only saw him being angry with Peter. It makes sense though, as that voicemail was probably left before he realized Peter hadn't picked up May and he was feeling sort of guilty for lashing out at him at the school, so when Pete didn't pick up, he left a sort of uplifting message hoping that he would hear it and solve their little tension. There wasn't enough emphasis put on that in-between state of Ben's emotional state. They definitely should've had a short scene with Ben leaving a voicemail to Peter to emphasize that. Not a big deal, just a little plot thing that didn't have to feel so out of place.
Also, Aunt May and her "secrets have a cost, they're not for free, never have been and never will be" line was almost taken straight out of Ult. SM. She's sort of insinuating that secrets get people hurt, while at the same time implying that if you live under my roof and that shit isn't going to fly forever. Oh and I don't think she knows who he is, just that there was a crisis in NY and he got caught up somehow.
CAPTAIN STACY
I liked Denis Leary here. Nothing amazing, but he pulled off Captain Stacy well, not to mention the father role (his 'wtf' face at the Gwen emotional disaster/coco scene). The interactions he has with Peter, specifically the dinner conversation, were great in that it gave insight into his standpoint as to why this SM character is troubling for them, and at the same time exposes his one track mind and defensiveness to the police force. The reveal and capture of SM was a great scene, and even if the actual unmasking felt a bit rushed, I did like the reveal itself to Stacy.
His highlight should've been in the final act, but it was somewhat short-lived, despite him being a badass in that scene. His actual death was handled well though, as was his request for Peter to stay away from Gwen. Definite foreshadowing of future events in that one line, "You're going to make enemies, people are going to get hurt. Sometimes the people closest to you". Practically prophetic if you ask me.
DR. CONNERS / LIZARD
As a character, Conners was great. Ifans performed it all just fine. As a villain however, it falls a bit short. First of all, Conners injecting himself with the antidote after his argument with Dr. Ratha, felt a bit rushed. However, I do love the reflection scene as it portrays his urge, and how he's so tempted with the solution right in front of him. He then takes the plunge.
One thing they should've elaborated more on it how when the serum wears off (which he solves by upping the dosage) that he's still a cross-species. This is why the lizards are all attracted to his location, as the dominant male or something. It is also obvious from the video he takes, and the voices in his head even before he transforms, that he isn't 'cured' when it wears off. Having one eye yellow or his pupil lizard-like would've went a long way to show this point.
Speaking of the voices in his head, I liked what they were trying to portray in that scene, which is a scientist question the moral and ethical implications of something, but the voices in his head were lame and felt off. Especially off was the last scene when he turns in to the Lizard and walks toward the camera, he isn't the one who screams "Peter" but it's the voices in his head instead. Felt very jarring there.
The way he finds out it's Peter was pretty stupid, with the whole 'property of peter parker' label. The camera idea was great, with it shooting every time a web is pulled, but I didn't buy that Peter would be stupid enough to keep that label on. They should've made it a digital camera and shown Lizard looking through the previous shots, and seeing what else was on the camera roll, like a picture of him and Gwen at the high school, or something. That would've played well with the HS scene next, as well.
Back to Conners' motives, why did he save Peter at the end and turn all good? I'm guessing the cure, but as I said before, they don't do enough to differentiate him being cured versus the drug wearing off, as either way he looks human. Meh villain overall, but I bought the whole Conners motives aspect and enjoyed the action itself.
THE SCORE
As far as setting a tone goes, this was probably the worst part of the movie. With everything in the movie feeling more grounded and realistic than hilariously cheesy, the score here felt like it was made for a Spider-Man 4 from Raimi than it did this reboot. It was good for some scenes, but generally speaking it was jarring. Some action scenes especially, and even dramatic ones, felt hindered by the score. I also feel like the main theme played a bit too much. I feel like Elfman's great score in SM1 is what grounded all the cheese with a sense of drama and importance, almost countering or balancing the tone. Here it does the opposite, countering the groundedness of the movie with overdramatized melodies that don't fit in a lot of sequences. Again, it feels like this score would have fit far better in a Raimi sequel than it did here. Not horrible, but definitely not good.
PLOT
A lot of this comes down to the last minute meddling and cuts of the movie, which i'll elaborate on in the section below, but some of it is just poorly executed. Let me cover the whole crane stuff first, since a lot of people had issues with it. Firstly, as some have said, it isn't THAT bad. The whole thing with the crane guy being the one on the bridge from earlier, is not an issue. More emphasis should've been put on the fact that Peter had been shot in the leg though, before he webbed it up. Anyway, the entire news was on TV (SM trying to head towards Oscorp, wounded, etc), so apart from the crane guy coincidentally being the one manning the crane (out of several) that SM lands on on when his jump falls short, it wasn't a big deal. What I didn't like was the fact that they felt the need to show the giant US flag behind that crane guy, although admittedly subtle and quick, it just wasn't needed. Also, the spotlight was cool apart front he fact that it pointed from him to the crane like it was trying to tell him something. The only real plot hole here is the fact that he could've just swung onto the copter, which they stupidly showed earlier in the movie, instead of using the cranes.
The third act was rather anti-climatic in terms of an actual confrontation with Lizard and SM. There was no real life or death battle between the two, but rather a reliance on the ganial device. The entire SWAT scene was so out of place (due to a deleted scene I think, covered in the section below), but what's worse it that the SWAT infection felt so non-threatening. It looked awesome, but it only seemed to effect a few people. They should've shown a breakout in that part of the city with Lizard people running around, since that would have made the actual antidote cloud feel more impactful than saving several random SWAT guys.
Oh and I had no issue with the 'product placement' tbh, the Bing thing especially. That felt fine. The only parts where it felt like they were pushed it was with the obvious shot of a Sony phone (after the Stacy introduction scene), where some pedestrian takes a video of SM running across a wall after dropping the baddie at the police station. Spidey playing a game on his phone while waiting for the booby traps to trip, was also sorta obvious but not a big deal since the scene was funny and didn't feel like random placement.
THE 'UNTOLD' STORY / DELETED SCENES
It's practically guaranteed at this point that there were last minute changes, either order by Sony executives due to fear of the origin retelling being too risky, or because Marvel had a beef with it. Who knows, but it's obvious from the pacing that some stuff was omitted.
For those that don't know, the rumors were (and supported by all the marketing insinuations) that Richard Parker was on the verge of a breakthrough with cross-specifices genetics, but like they did with Conners in the film, Oscorp threatened him that they should begin human trials and urged to cure Osborn. To cut to the chase, supposedly Richard had genetically altered his son and stowed away/kept the formula hidden within Peter's DNA. They ran away out of fear from Oscorp, and we assume were killed (in the movie, apparently from plane crash, but that scene seemed shoehorned in). The genetically engineered spiders in Richard's old Oscorp lab is what triggered the inherent abilities within Peter, when he was bitten. He literally is a cross-species like Conners, but a successful one in that there's more human than spider within him. The original plot had more to do with this, as Peter's blood playing a part in the cure/antidote.
Anyway, there seems to be a ton of deleted scenes (based on the trailers, clips, tv spots, etc), but these are the 'important' ones that stood out most to me in their absence.
Peter and Conners in front of a chalkboard full of equations where Peter completes the decay algorithm. In the movie he just writes it on a piece of paper in Conners' kitchen, which he just memorized from his father's work. There's also a "you're obviously very bright, like your father. You remind me of him" line (and a "ready to play god" line, but I think that was exclusive to the trailers) that was cut.
Gwen telling Peter "my father has five hundred officers looking for you" was supposed to fit right after the Gwen coco scene and Peter persuading her to take her swinging around. She would argue with that line, he would say "that seems a bit excessive" (also cut) and then straight to them swinging. Also missing is the two of them actually swinging around. We get a super quick snippet of that, but there is cut footage of this, as well as them landing together on a rooftop. All gone!
Peter encountering Lizard in the sewer labs with Dr. Ratha (Irfan), telling him "Do you think what happened to you was an accident?" and "Do you know what you really are?" as well as Conners telling him "If you want the truth about your parents, Peter, come and get it". This was all in one scene, where Conners transforms into the Lizard in front of Peter, and Ratha probably gets killed (probably seemed too violent/one too many deaths in the movie, as well as saving Irfan for future movies). I think this is accurate as to how it would've went. This scene also would have also led into the (random) swat ambushing Lizard scene somehow, so it wouldn't have felt so random for the swat to arrive right where Lizard was coming out.
Webb has said we'll get 3 or 4 deleted scenes on the DVD, but i'm guessing those won't even involve the heavy plot deviation stuff, but rather the simple removed bits (like Gwen and Pete swinging). I can't wait for them to cover what they removed here more in the sequel. It's obvious the spider bite wasn't that simple..
So overall it was good, but some things felt missing or rushed. The great characters and awesome Spidey bits will balance that out for most people, but not for all. Some will like it better than everything Raimi did, others won't. In general, I think it's barely better/equal to SM1 despite some of the shortcomings, since it also did a lot right. Stll a notch below SM2 imo, but obviously bounds better than SM3.
The sequel has a lot of potential to be truly amazing (no pun), especially given more flexibility and creative freedom with this risky reboot out of the gate.
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