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The Americans - S4 of the KGB spy drama - Keri Russell & Matthew Rhys - Wed on FX

C

Cornballer

Member
Just finished up. :O Necessary, but brutal.

- Promo for next week's episode (please spoiler tag any discussion)
- Yahoo!: ‘The Americans’ Showrunners Address ‘Gut-Wrenching’ Character Death
- EW: The Americans showrunners explain that shocking death
So when Nina went to Russia, you always new she was never going to come back?

WEISBERG: That’s a complicated question. We did know when she went to the Soviet Union, she would not make it back to the United States. There’s no reasonable storyline in which a KGB spy would go back to the Soviet Union under those circumstances and would then be returned — that didn’t make any sense. You’d have to come up with a very fanciful and outlandish story like the type we don’t really do to bring her back to the United States. But we did not know she would necessarily die. We were willing to follow her story in the Soviet Union in whatever direction it happened to go. It happened to go in this direction. But there were a lot of other directions it might have gone, and we saw a lot of potentially interesting things that could and did happen to her there.

FIELDS: But by the beginning of season 3, we had [planned] her death. Because we came upon [The Americans consultant Sergie Kostin’s book Farewell: The Greatest Spy Story of the Twentieth Century], which gave the details of how these prisoners were executed. We expected it to happen by the end of season 3.

WEISBERG: Right, although it wasn’t reading about the deaths in the book that motivated us to have her die, but it gave us how she’d die once we knew she was. Sergie’s book gives all these details that came out after the fall of the Soviet Union about all these people who had committed espionage who were executed, and the exact details of how that was done. We follow that to the letter in the show when Nina was executed. It was planned in a very specific way so the person who was going to be killed doesn’t know they were going to be killed, and it was done that way for humanitarian reasons — they didn’t want the person to suffer, to be spending all this time in a cell pondering their own pending execution. They wanted it to be as much of a surprise as possible.

Which also happens to make for great television, as well…

WEISBERG: Coincidentally, it makes for great television!

And we’ll get back to the staging of the scene, but I just want to go back to her story real quick: Was there any concern that Nina’s storyline might now feel like a bit of a dead end, so to speak, because she went on this long journey apart from the other characters and never intersected with them again? One might ask: What was the point of her incarceration, this seeming detour, that as it turned out, wasn’t a detour at all?

FIELDS: I don’t think we struggled with that question, because it didn’t feel like a detour to us, for two primary reasons: One, she’s a very important character, so it never felt like we were going away to explore some ancillary drama that didn’t have to do with anything. And two, in those final arcs of her story, she’s undergoing real character exploration and transformation that reflects emotionally and thematically on all the characters on the show. So it felt to us very much a part of the rest of the drama, even though it wasn’t being played out directly with the other characters.
Click to expand...
- WSJ: ‘The Americans’ Star Annet Mahendru on Nina’s Last Stand
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
:(

From the Sepinwall interview:

Joe Weisberg: [...] our Russian consultant, Sergei Kostin, after he read episode 4, sent us an email that read, "You are hard men." We've basically waited our whole lives for someone to say that to us.

Joel Fields: We ran around the office screaming like girls, "We're hard men! The Russian consultant says we're hard men!"

Joe Weisberg: So anything could happen at the end of the series. Look out. We're hard men.
Click to expand...

hard men :(
 
D

Disgraced

Member
Shortly, huh. That's one way to resolve a plot.

It's always been a staple of this show but for some reason the use of red and green really struck me this episode. It looked great.

I liked that bowling scene. This show is so brooding but it knows how and when to intersect lightness just right. It was a vital part of training.

Date scene was also sharp. Poor Martha indeed.
 
I

IronRinn

Member
RatskyWatsky said:
:(

From the Sepinwall interview:

Joe Weisberg: [...] our Russian consultant, Sergei Kostin, after he read episode 4, sent us an email that read, "You are hard men." We've basically waited our whole lives for someone to say that to us.

Joel Fields: We ran around the office screaming like girls, "We're hard men! The Russian consultant says we're hard men!"

Joe Weisberg: So anything could happen at the end of the series. Look out. We're hard men.
Click to expand...

hard men :(
Click to expand...
Haha, man that's funny. Still, I'm sad about Nina. I still think it was kind of weird to follow the character for as long as we did and I don't think it worked as well as they thought it might, but I still found her death affecting. I think the Av Club did a good job eulogizing the character:

But that is not to say that her execution is devoid of feeling. I’ve been bracing for this development for weeks, and I still experienced a swell of sorrow, shock, and surprise when the gun went off. As The Americans proves time and time again, you never hear the bullet with your name on it. Nina is a character we’ve come to know and sympathize with, whose choices help determine the course of the show and whose relationships to other characters are complex and compelling. No other character who’s died on this show could be described in such terms. For these reasons and more, Nina’s death matters.
Click to expand...

I think her storyline petered out towards the end of last season, but they gave her a memorable send off for sure.
 
M

Mashing

Member
Part of me wants Oleg to go on a rampage, but that's not what this show is about. More than likely it simply drives a further wedge between him and his family and he goes back to America. It might convince him to defect though, as it essentially cuts all ties he'd have with Russia.
 
I

IronRinn

Member
I like how, as the adults in the lives of the Jennings children are contemplating what to do about them, we have been allowed glimpses into their own, very traumatic childhoods. It really hit me when Gabriel started talking about growing up, always wondering if today was his day. As Paige and Henry are growing up (Paige, at a very fast rate) everyone is confronted with their youth, even if it's just Stan having to recount his meeting with Sandra while Henry takes notes.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
"Shortly." Damn...just damn. And after that dream sequence too.

I love how the shot just stayed with the scene, the cleanup and the guys just talking over paperwork like it was nothing.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
- Variety: ‘The Americans’ Showrunners Address ‘Gut-Wrenching’ Development
You have said that you view this season as the season that marks the end of the second act of a three-act play. Is that what you’re thinking about as you are beginning to work on season five? [Note: An “Americans” renewal is expected but has not yet been officially announced].

Joel: There have been some big transitions along the way, and Joe and I are now talking about what will ultimately be the most satisfying end, and how we want to play that out. Whether that plays out over the course of five seasons or six seasons — I think we’ll be figuring out over the next couple weeks. But given how slowly we moved through story [thus far], who knows how long how long you’ll keep asking us that question. But I think we can all rest assured that this series will not end abruptly.

Joe: I think we’ll know soon. I think we’re awfully close to figuring it out, and it’s such a nice feeling to have that discretion as the storytellers — it’s just great.

Is your sense from FX that if you need one season, you’ll get one, and if you need two seasons, you’ll get two?

Joel: Yes. I think we’re pretty much in that position, and it’s an unbelievable luxury, and it says an awful lot about FX.

More and more this show seems to be about, can Philip and Elizabeth save their marriage or can they save their children? It just doesn’t seem like they can do both. To me, that’s the big question that hangs over the endgame of the series.

Joe: Honestly, we worry about both. I don’t necessarily see it as either-or. I think we tend to see both of those things at various levels of crisis. In other words, it’s possible lose both.

Joel: They do live in a world of real consequences.
Click to expand...





Grizzlyjin said:
"Shortly." Damn...just damn. And after that dream sequence too.

I love how the shot just stayed with the scene, the cleanup and the guys just talking over paperwork like it was nothing.
Click to expand...
It was a shocking scene because of how quickly it happened, but it was also unnerving because of how clinical and mundane they seemed after it happened. No emotion, just business.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
J

jett

D-Member
Well this whole Nina business sure went nowhere.

This season has been kinda boring for me, but this kind of stuff just makes it worse. It feels like it has no focus and the characters have no purpose.
 
S

Spectral Glider

Member
jett said:
Well this whole Nina business sure went nowhere.

This season has been kinda boring for me, but this kind of stuff just makes it worse. It feels like it has no focus and the characters have no purpose.
Click to expand...

The season has been good, it's just the Nina stuff that bored me. I still think the rest of the characters have focus and purpose. I just think the show didn't really know what to do with Nina and so they went for a bit of shock value for her ending. Was a waste of time if you ask me, but it is what it is now.
 
J

jerry113

Banned
Shocking scene but I think Nina disappearing into the gulags forever would've been a better ending for her. Like two seasons ago.
 
X

xenist

Member
Nina's arc wasn't complete before she tried to send the letter to Baklanov's son. As the writers said, she stopped trying to survive which was all she was doing on the show and instead tried to perform a kind, selfless, but ultimately fatal act.
 
Ristifer

Ristifer

Member
xenist said:
Nina's arc wasn't complete before she tried to send the letter to Baklanov's son. As the writers said, she stopped trying to survive which was all she was doing on the show and instead tried to perform a kind, selfless, but ultimately fatal act.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this.
 
T

The Doc

Banned
xenist said:
Nina's arc wasn't complete before she tried to send the letter to Baklanov's son. As the writers said, she stopped trying to survive which was all she was doing on the show and instead tried to perform a kind, selfless, but ultimately fatal act.
Click to expand...

Swag time

The Doc said:
can't see how nina's letter wouldn't have been noticed. maybe she wanted to be caught due to guilt over how she was achieving her release. In board terms , the more i look into this character's ambiguity , the more a tragic ending comes to mind.
Click to expand...
 
C

CoolOff

Member
WHAT.

fuck.

I was really happy for Baklanov even though I knew it was all a dream.

I used to read Word Up! magazine
 
E

evil solrac v3.0

Member
jett said:
Well this whole Nina business sure went nowhere.

This season has been kinda boring for me, but this kind of stuff just makes it worse. It feels like it has no focus and the characters have no purpose.
Click to expand...


it did go somewhere, it just didn't have a happy ending. it's what happens to traitors.
 
S

spindoctor

Member
Well that came as a shock. From "you're being transferred" to bullet in the head in all of two minutes. It makes sense though. As much as they tried, they could not give Nina any sort of relevant story in the last couple of seasons.

It's still early days in the season but it feels to me that their focus on the primary story (Paige and parents) is coming at the expense of the other characters in the show. Oleg is now useless unless some crazy stuff happens and he goes back to America to become a double agent or something. The FBI for some reason is not looking for the Illegals anymore which means Stan doesn't have much to do. Likewise, Philip is not actively spying on the FBI which means his interactions with Martha are limited and she doesn't have much to do either. So what do they do? They pair up Stan and Martha and put him on a most inconsequential hunt for the mole who planted the recorder. I'm not even sure if the head of the Russian consulate has had any screen time this season, although his was admittedly a minor part.

I also feel that they shouldn't drag out the Paige drama for too long. For the first couple of seasons the idea was that the children shouldn't find out what the parents do. Well now that Paige knows, it's become that she shouldn't find out what the parents really do. This is also, inevitably, going to happen, so don't take forever to get there. The personal drama, conflict and self doubt is a large part of what makes this show so don't get rid of that, but don't overemphasize it at the expense of other characters and an actual story is what I'm saying.
 
A

AngmarsKing701

Member
I'm glad the Nina storyline is over. Pointless and boring. Much of this show is written so well, with such subtle undertones and so many double entendres in every conversation. The Nina plot felt like typical 21st century TV writing to appease the average viewer who asks, "I don't understand why they don't just run already." So we need to see a traitor get shot for that viewer to say, "oh."
 
C

CoolOff

Member
We need more Arkady.

iHETfoh.jpg
 
I

IvanJ

Banned
Cannot say Nina dying was unexpected to me. All the signs were pointing to that, but I think it is Oleg that sealed her fate by promising to stay in Russia because of her.
It was a final confirmation to his father that he really loves her, and he could not have his son get blacklisted by consorting with a traitor.
So, the moment Oleg chooses to stay with/for Nina, father calls in a kill order.
 
Ristifer

Ristifer

Member
Yeah. We do need more Arkady. I'm assuming now that Nina is dead and Glanders has "passed by" we might see more of the Rezidentura/Arkady/Tatiana angle.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
- Matt Zoller Seitz for NY Mag: What Made That Americans Plot Twist Such Great Television
- NY Mag: Behind The Americans’ Devastating Plot Twist
GE: Would the person know that this is a type of execution and that's how it would have happened?

Joe: It was kept secret. That's how they kept the element of surprise.

Joel: That's right. And in fact, you were often moved between cells. So none of this would be surprising until the moment it happened. That was the idea. There was one other beautiful detail. There were just a few of these elite execution squads there, and at one point they found out one of the squads was making the victims kneel before they were executed, and everybody on that squad was fired. They felt that was dehumanizing. That was not the way it was intended to be done.

Joe: Compare this to our system, which is not so humane.

Joel: On the other hand, they weren't really very humane with the families. No information would go out. So let's say you visited your loved one in prison once every two weeks. You'd show up and they would say, "You need to go to the sixth floor." Then you'd go to the sixth floor and they'd say, "Actually you need to go across the street to the basement file department." Then you'd go and you'd stand on line for the file department and they'd hand you the death certificate.

Joe: And you weren't allowed to know where they were buried either.

GE: Can you talk a little bit about the technical process of filming this scene?

Joel: So the execution itself, the gun is unloaded. There's no muzzle flash. There's no bullet. There's just a director saying "Pop" or whatever he said at that moment, and then the action. The muzzle flash, the blood, the brain splatter, is all added after the fact. One of the great things about digital effects now is it's made stunt work much safer. There are still certain stunts that are done with people and are high-risk affairs, but they can become much safer. For example, because you can have safety wires that can be digitally removed. But they can also become safer because you can have gunshots without gunshots.

Joe: One of the things you still need a gunshot for is to get the reactions from the actors.

Joel: That's exactly right! This year, we had a scene where we were firing off some gunshots really to get reactions from extras. The scene was fully permitted and we had police there and we had extra ADs on in the area. Pretty much every time you fire a gun, there are going to be sirens, neighbors are going to be calling the police saying they heard gunshots. It doesn't matter how many signs you put up that there's going to be a movie with gunshots, that there's going to be a TV show and shots will be fired. That's like clockwork.
Click to expand...
 
S

Saty

Member
spindoctor said:
They pair up Stan and Martha and put him on a most inconsequential hunt for the mole who planted the recorder. I'm not even sure if the head of the Russian consulate has had any screen time this season, although his was admittedly a minor part.
Click to expand...

How is it inconsequential?

----

Why do TV websites *still* spoil major events in shows by having sensational headlines on their main pages? In the past they had the poor excuse that they were sites serving American audience who would have seen the episode when it originally aired. But what's the excuse now with DVR, time-shifted viewing, international audience? How does it make any sense? Why should someone visiting your website frequently\daily for various reasons get spoiled on his favorite show? on the main page? Who would want to visit your site again once he's burned? How the hell hasn't TV journalism fixed how they report that stuff?

It's like posting spoilers in the thread title instead as a post in it. Whoever enters an ongoing TV show discussion at GAF knows in advance there will be spoilers.

---

Two Webms, one's 'that' moment.

https://my.mixtape.moe/jcdess.webm

https://my.mixtape.moe/vikzlz.webm
 
S

spindoctor

Member
Saty said:
How is it inconsequential?
Click to expand...

It's just how it feels to me. Instead of hunting the Elizabeth and Philip he's going after Martha. Even if Martha gets 'caught' she doesn't know who Philip actually is. And regardless of any feelings Philip might have towards Martha, he has ultimately been using her and will tie up loose ends if he needs to.

It just feels like a story thread that would not go anywhere.
 
H

Harry Stewart

Member
I don't even care if it was done for storytelling convenience, that final scene left me shaken to the bone in its execution (no pun intended). I know that the resulting storyline will mean it mattered, the showrunners have proven themselves to be capable enough.
 
R

Redd

Member
spindoctor said:
It's just how it feels to me. Instead of hunting the Elizabeth and Philip he's going after Martha. Even if Martha gets 'caught' she doesn't know who Philip actually is. And regardless of any feelings Philip might have towards Martha, he has ultimately been using her and will tie up loose ends if he needs to.

It just feels like a story thread that would not go anywhere.
Click to expand...

Well while following Martha he sees Philip. That's one way it leads to something or he finds a picture of Philip like a wedding picture with Martha. It could happen.
 
S

Saty

Member
spindoctor said:
It's just how it feels to me. Instead of hunting the Elizabeth and Philip he's going after Martha. Even if Martha gets 'caught' she doesn't know who Philip actually is. And regardless of any feelings Philip might have towards Martha, he has ultimately been using her and will tie up loose ends if he needs to.

It just feels like a story thread that would not go anywhere.
Click to expand...

Gaad's office had been bugged - finding out who did it is the top priority. Martha is the best suspect for that and obviously he thinks who's running her got to be a high Russian agent, be that the illegals he's been looking for or someone else.

My only issue with this plotline is that the FBI as a whole should have not bought Gene's frame-job and the ruse to root out the real mole included pretending publicly that the case was closed and that they believed Gene was the mole.
 
S

spindoctor

Member
Redd said:
Well while following Martha he sees Philip. That's one way it leads to something or he finds a picture of Philip like a wedding picture with Martha. It could happen.
Click to expand...

I would hope our spies don't get caught by coincidence :p

Look I know you can connect the dots and trace a path from the FBI to them. I just feel like this is a segue into a story path that, at best, loops back into the main story and at worst just ends up mostly disconnected from the rest of the happenings, like Nina's story in Russia.

Saty said:
Gaad's office had been bugged - finding out who did it is the top priority. Martha is the best suspect for that and obviously he thinks who's running her got to be a high Russian agent, be that the illegals he's been looking for or someone else.
Click to expand...

Now that you mention this, I'm trying to remember if Martha has ever given Stan or anyone else any legitimate cause to suspect her. All I can remember is a few of these long, lingering camera shots of Stan watching her with a concerned look on his face and then suddenly one day he decides she might be the mole.
 
Ristifer

Ristifer

Member
I think it's just a logical step for Stan. Martha's body language, the fact that it was in a pen, she's always in his office, etc.

Plus, Stan's a suspicious fellow. We saw that in the pilot. Sneaking around into Philip and Elizabeth's garage, Sandra telling him he's always suspicious of everybody. It's really just a character trait.
 
Dominican Power

Dominican Power

Member
It was sad seeing Nina die like that. She had so many hopes and dreams. And for her life to turn for the worst over sending some shit back to her family, really fucks with you. Stan has blood on his hands.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
I also agree with the requests for more Arkady. Need to get him back involved. I'd like to see more of Gaad, too, provided he's giving us something with a little more nuance than angry boss.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Just caught up, what a gut punch.

But as brutal as it was, it felt completely necessary (which is exactly how major deaths should be handled). Given the world and tone the show has established, a tragic end was really the only way Nina's story could end without betraying that.
 
daemissary

daemissary

Member
I also just caught up and holy crap. I guess I always knew that Nina would die in the back of my mind but despite that and all of the shitty things she did, somehow I still was hoping for an escape for her.

It's really a testament to how good the actress was in this role.
 
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