-Pyromaniac-
Member
Thanks for all the posts cornballer. Amazing reads. This show!
Also Rhys face.....I been there man. So accurate in that pic above.
Also Rhys face.....I been there man. So accurate in that pic above.
The Americans - Season 5 of the award winning KGB spy drama - Tuesdays on FX
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
- Status
Yeah, I agree with sentiment that this is, while enjoyable, a very down-trotting season with basically nothing. Most of the things that happened, lead to nowhere (None of the people they were spying on lead to anything interesting) and the slow and deliberate tone of the show took the whole progression out of it. I see where they are going with, setting up doomed scenarios where everyone is sad and the situation are nihilistic, but it fails to actually lead to anything worthwhile.
I am also disappointing that the political climate during that time (Mid 80s) have not been mentioned or even referenced. The only thing that came out of the whole thing was the chemical warfare with the Mujahidin in Afghanistan and that was mentioned for like 5 mins. Politics and geopolitical impact of the Cold War was disappointingly absent, and I had high expectation considering last season ended with a bang (William and his Chemical Radiation plot)
There were a lot more focus on charaterisation and family relationship, which engaged to the end. The acting and the minimalistic writing was incredible at times. The melancholia of the whole situation was thoroughly explored through facial expressions alone. I loved it for that reason. and the end, it showed a very deep and emotional side to these people . Pictures to speak thousand words and Philips ''Yeah''s were heavy and delibrate.
I am also disappointing that the political climate during that time (Mid 80s) have not been mentioned or even referenced. The only thing that came out of the whole thing was the chemical warfare with the Mujahidin in Afghanistan and that was mentioned for like 5 mins. Politics and geopolitical impact of the Cold War was disappointingly absent, and I had high expectation considering last season ended with a bang (William and his Chemical Radiation plot)
There were a lot more focus on charaterisation and family relationship, which engaged to the end. The acting and the minimalistic writing was incredible at times. The melancholia of the whole situation was thoroughly explored through facial expressions alone. I loved it for that reason. and the end, it showed a very deep and emotional side to these people . Pictures to speak thousand words and Philips ''Yeah''s were heavy and delibrate.
captjohnboyd
Member
Can someone tell me if I watched a version that was missing the end scenes? The last scene is Philip walking up the stairs right? I've read a couple comments in this thread that made me think I might have missed something ala hands in pocket and I'll go out and be a spy while you stay home honey
tearsintherain
Member
You definitely missed something, theres almost 4 more minutes past that where Elizabeth and Philip are taking a walk outside and talk about stuff. The episode ran over an hour I believe so thats probably why.
The book Liz is reading in bed is Space by James Michener btw, just caught that while watching the last few minutes again. Its fictional and some uh interesting parallels to the show characters but I can't really tell too much.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_(novel)
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Y'all are crazy. Season 3 is GOAT Americans season
- EST
- The Nina swerve
- Tooth extraction
- "Do Mail Robots Dream of Electric Sheep?" The whole damn thing
- Creepy Philip and his Kimmy op
- The introduction of Gabriel
- EST
- The Nina swerve
- Tooth extraction
- "Do Mail Robots Dream of Electric Sheep?" The whole damn thing
- Creepy Philip and his Kimmy op
- The introduction of Gabriel
captjohnboyd
Member
Ugh so fucking annoying. I have cable but it's some weird Cox laptop only cable and I don't know how to set it up yet (just moved) so I had to download from some less...reputable sources. Forgive me. I've downloaded three versions so far and they're all cut off. Guess I'll have to figure this stupid online on demand thing Cox has now
stenbumling
Unconfirmed Member
Don't forget the whole Paige finding out thing. Season 3 is where I realized this is a special show.
Fenderputty
Banned
I agree that this season doesn't have much. It's seems entirely character driven. Which isn't bad, but there's no secret virus, or somone killing all their spy friends to go along with character development. It's always been a more character driven show, but there was always something else. This season we have wheat. I'm actually more interested in Olegs arc right now.
I'm curious why Martha keeps getting screen time. We don't need three appearances just so the viewer knows she's OK. There has to be a point. Same thing thing with Philips kid.
After the last two seasons, Im having a seriously difficult time sympathizing with Elizabeth. She's way to cold and calculated. Forcing Philip to stay is brutal. Killing that old nurse and her innocent husband was brutal. She's brutal.
I have enjoyed the episodic reminder that they're shitty parent though.
I'm curious why Martha keeps getting screen time. We don't need three appearances just so the viewer knows she's OK. There has to be a point. Same thing thing with Philips kid.
After the last two seasons, Im having a seriously difficult time sympathizing with Elizabeth. She's way to cold and calculated. Forcing Philip to stay is brutal. Killing that old nurse and her innocent husband was brutal. She's brutal.
I have enjoyed the episodic reminder that they're shitty parent though.
Phenomenal tv. But ominous as all hell.
1. They had a chance to get out but now won't. That always works out!
2. Elizabeth telling Tuan that you need two people to make it work and then later telling Phillip that she will work by herself. I'm sure that will work out great!
3. Stan's girl has almost got to be a spy, right?
1. They had a chance to get out but now won't. That always works out!
2. Elizabeth telling Tuan that you need two people to make it work and then later telling Phillip that she will work by herself. I'm sure that will work out great!
3. Stan's girl has almost got to be a spy, right?
Dominican Power
Member
Elizabeth going solo is the beginning of the end.
VenomousCoffee
Member
I'm sitting here thinking about an alt-universe Elizabeth who was working by herself the whole time. She would have assassinated half of DC.
Yep, RIP Elizabeth. Forever the spy.
Cornballer
Member
- Matt Zoller Seitz for NY Mag: The Americans Penultimate Season Was Its Messiest, Most Depressing One Yet
Fenderputty
Banned
One more thing to add to this. Phil and Elizabeth sought the advice of Pastor Tim about returning to the motherland. Pastor Tim basically said, "Your kids are older and will have an incredibly hard time adjusting, but if you wait any longer, the decision won't be yours to make". Elizabeth forcing their continued stay almost ensures they never go back even if there's a "happy" ending.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
So many parallels with the Pasha storyline. Henry is not going to just shrug it off. He has no idea about any of this, it'll destroy his world.
Paige and Henry both have "outs" though. They actually are American citizens. Henry is legitimately ignorant to everything that is going on, and Paige would just have to pretend she was. Pastor Tim is off the table now since he'll be out of the country. I know Elizabeth and Philip wouldn't dream of splitting the family up...but I could see scenarios where that's just how it has to go. Plus, Paige & Henry have Stan in their corner. He probably won't have a leg to stand on if The Illegals operation was exposed, but he'd still go to bat for the kids.
Yep. And you've got Pasha doing the deed to get back to Russia. They'd have to consider that Henry could do something similar to get back to the USA. I highly doubt the entire family is ever going to make to Russia.
Fenderputty
Banned
Paige only kinda sorta knows what they're doing too. She's not fully aware by any stretch of the imagination. An example would be the whole "wheat" thing. They never clarified to Paige that the US wasn't trying to fuck with Russia's food supply. She doesn't think they kill innocent American grandfathers because they married a Russian girl who was mentally fucked by the Nazis. Paige doesn't view life in as many shades of gray as her parents' and certainly not her mother.
I can't believe they even think the transition would be good for Henry. Philip seems like her knows this and was letting Elizabeth talk him into it.
Either way, they'll both be adults very soon.
Ohh hey I know we told you that you could go to this famous boarding, school that will guarantee your future well being, and we know you look up to Stan, but none of that is true. You now have to live your life in a food line with zero room for job growth. Ohh and we're spies. Just get over it you big baby!
I personally think Elizabeth goes down. I don't see her turning on her country. Philip is cracking. Every episode this season there was a reminder about how he's a shitty father and he's over the whole thing. He's questioning the centers true motivations now too. There's a reason this season touched on Phil's bastard son too. Somehow their paths will cross and I think that's going to be what pushes Phillip over the edge.
Sectorseven
Member
I don't know, I think the children's citizenship would be highly questionable. A judge would probably ultimately side with them, but I could see it being a huge legal battle.
Fenderputty
Banned
There is no legal battle. They were born on American soil. The citizenship of their parents doesn't matter.
The season was kind of a slog, it kind of got more interesting mid-to-late into the season but I feel like the predictable conclusion of Phillip and Elizabeth staying for the kids actually would have been way more appropriate. I think, the way it is now, it kind of dehumanizes Elizabeth in ways far beyond the tough love or wisdom/good intentions she had in previous seasons where she clashed with both Henry and Paige. It felt kind of sudden of a decision, and not because they're necessarily tired of it all. It feels like they didn't fully process the opportunities/lives both of them had domestically, even though they are kind of strict and authoritarian parents.
It just felt off in execution. Something about the justification for or the build up to the actual decision felt off, both in verbals and nonverbals.
Found it hard to engage with the Oleg stuff in general. Gravity of it just wasn't there IMO, and I don't think it has been since Nina died. Feels like there weren't enough personal ramifications on Oleg (vs. Stan). Speaking of Stan, with every additional season, which has less and less focus on his actual job, it makes him look more and more incompetent at his job.
Season just needed sharper focus, probably.
It just felt off in execution. Something about the justification for or the build up to the actual decision felt off, both in verbals and nonverbals.
Found it hard to engage with the Oleg stuff in general. Gravity of it just wasn't there IMO, and I don't think it has been since Nina died. Feels like there weren't enough personal ramifications on Oleg (vs. Stan). Speaking of Stan, with every additional season, which has less and less focus on his actual job, it makes him look more and more incompetent at his job.
Season just needed sharper focus, probably.
Ristifer
Member
I don't think it's meant to show that Philip is a bad father and that he's over everything. I think that's the whole point of Philip cracking under all of this. He wants his family together under more normal circumstances. He can't go through with these operations for too much longer, because he's dying on the inside. Every long stare from Rhys just makes it known that Philip wants out, but he'll always be holding onto it all because of his family. His family is the only thing keeping him from completely cracking.
Fenderputty
Banned
Philip is a terrible father though. His apology to Paige, the look on his face when Paige says she'll always be alone, the fact that their Son became an ace student and they had no clue. Their son spends more time with Stan the FBI neighbor. The photos of the diary calling them monsters. Phillip even brought that up. He knew Paige wanted them to see this.
They touched on this a little in previous seasons, but each time they go out on a missions, they risk not coming home to their kids. Their house would be raided and their children's lives ruined.
Philip is realizing he's a shitty father and he's having a harder time justifying this since he's also doubting the center's intentions. Philip isn't a bad man.
Sectorseven
Member
Either way, Paige is fucked because they would likely charge her with treason.
Even Henry is going to have a hard time proving he had no knowledge of their secret lives.
Ristifer
Member
Ehh, he's wanted the family to have a normal life since the pilot. The circumstances make him neglectful, sure. But I don't think every episode in S5 was meant to show how shitty of a father Philip actually is. If that's true, then it really didn't hit me like it should have.
Nydius
Member
This summarizes exactly how I feel too. The season started out strong with going back to last seasons' chemical weapon plot and starting a whole new plot with the wheat "attacks" but all of that got dropped fast as fuck by mid season and the show meandered back to the same plodding family drama stuff that's been plaguing the show since season 4.
The last five minutes of the finale was basically one gigantic version of itsnothing.gif.
No real payoff for any of the story lines this season (nothing like the conclusion of last season at all), I felt nothing for Oleg's situation, nor did I feel any real emotional weight of Stan's situation. The entire wheat op was just left to die several episodes back, as the writers gave Philip and Elizabeth easy excuses to avoid continuing it - it was instead replaced with the Tuan family drama plot line that was lackluster at best. Both those plot lines and the previous season's biochemical line were used merely to further the family soap opera. Philip's existential crisis, Paige still dealing with the truth, and so on.
As the credits rolled, we're left with the same cloud that's been hanging over the show now for three years: Who is going to crack first and cause everything to fall apart?
Don't get me wrong, I'm still watching because it's better than most other crap on TV but I'm starting to feel like the payoff at the end of the final season probably won't be worth the two and a half seasons they've spent building up to it.
Fluffhead14
Member
was waiting for the "Hank on the shitter" scene and it never came.
something to give some momentum. what a chore this season was.
something to give some momentum. what a chore this season was.
Ristifer
Member
I really didn't find it to be that much of a chore like some are saying, and like I said, I usually can't stand slower television. I guess I just really enjoy watching these characters.
Definitely a slower pace, but I wasn't getting bored of it or anything. Oh well. Looking forward to S6!
Definitely a slower pace, but I wasn't getting bored of it or anything. Oh well. Looking forward to S6!
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Loved this season, and the last episode especially so. This series has shown a level of consistency to its characters that's unparalleled, and the fact that no major event spectacle took place does not weigh it down.
I don't know how my fiancee and I made it through this season... And that's coming from big fans of all prior seasons. I can barely remember most of what I watched and I'm pretty sure I've fallen asleep mid episode twice which is not common for me lol. At this point, it feels like they've run out of material and are dragging out the end game as long as they possibly can. I expect this now from once great shows and it's a real bummer because I'd prefer consistency of quality through the entire span of a shorter series rather than keeping it on life support to keep going. Have they said how many seasons they're planning on continuing this for?
Edit: I must add, Gabriel leaving didn't help my interest in the show.
Edit: I must add, Gabriel leaving didn't help my interest in the show.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
6 seasons total.
Thank God and thank you lol. I will definitely be back for next year and I hope it's a lot more engaging than this season was.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Just to assuage your concerns though, they weren't trying to run it into the ground and they definitely fought to get it to 6 seasons. Whatever your feelings of season 5 may be, it was the creators' intent.
Ristifer
Member
I understand the slower paced complaints, but it doesn't really equate to a drop in quality for me. It's still the same great show, although definitely much slower.
I just don't think this show deserves the whole "It was great once" label because of a slower season.
Weakest season of all and a big disappointment.
It's like they took what they were known for and turned it up to 11. The pace at its slowest, the backburner at it's slightest, sub-plots the most disconnected they ever were from the main plot.
Somebody explain me the insistence on Burov. A complete misfire. Even heyday Nina and the Residentura didn't get as much screen time as Oleg did this season. It was uninteresting and irrelevant and perplexing. Yes, to the credit of The Americans they tend to stick with characters and follow through with them a lot after they stop being meaningful to the larger story, but this time they took it to new heights. Whatever they wanted to get across, they could have done with much less time and use it on other much-needed areas of the show.
Also, what was the point of Stan learning about Gaad? I thought that finally the Burov thing is starting to matter and that Stan will agree to blackmail Oleg so they can get the people behind Gaad's death. But the thing was never mentioned again and Burov's bore continued on.
What was the point of Mischa finally getting his way to US only to promptly go back because Gabriel said he couldn't see Phillip. Pretty late to start abiding the KGB\s request no? And again, after Gabriel had his change of heart and went back to Russia, i thought, surely, he's going to help Mischa to get to the US again and meet Phillip, But again. Nope. Subverting expectation for subversion's sake. Never mind that is also made a perfect fit for their 3 sons theme (Henry, Tuan and Mischa).
This season made it clear we're following Stan because he's Stan. Not because his line of work or a potential whiff he's going to get on the Jennings. And it's not like what he was doing was riveting. The Stan-parts this season could have heavily benefited from more screen-time (instead of doubling down on Oleg). And again, what was supposed to be a trigger for something (the info on Gaad) amounted to nothing.
I would also have liked to see more 'on the job' time by the Jennings apart from the wheat project. I also feel like they could have given more time to Paige, and Matthew pretty much vanished from existence after the break-up.
Anyhow, bummer. While there continued to be elements of what brought the show acclaim, they were overshadowed by weak subplots and bizarre time allocations and decisions.
Hopefully the last 10 episodes bring it, but i'm not as sure now.
It's like they took what they were known for and turned it up to 11. The pace at its slowest, the backburner at it's slightest, sub-plots the most disconnected they ever were from the main plot.
Somebody explain me the insistence on Burov. A complete misfire. Even heyday Nina and the Residentura didn't get as much screen time as Oleg did this season. It was uninteresting and irrelevant and perplexing. Yes, to the credit of The Americans they tend to stick with characters and follow through with them a lot after they stop being meaningful to the larger story, but this time they took it to new heights. Whatever they wanted to get across, they could have done with much less time and use it on other much-needed areas of the show.
Also, what was the point of Stan learning about Gaad? I thought that finally the Burov thing is starting to matter and that Stan will agree to blackmail Oleg so they can get the people behind Gaad's death. But the thing was never mentioned again and Burov's bore continued on.
What was the point of Mischa finally getting his way to US only to promptly go back because Gabriel said he couldn't see Phillip. Pretty late to start abiding the KGB\s request no? And again, after Gabriel had his change of heart and went back to Russia, i thought, surely, he's going to help Mischa to get to the US again and meet Phillip, But again. Nope. Subverting expectation for subversion's sake. Never mind that is also made a perfect fit for their 3 sons theme (Henry, Tuan and Mischa).
This season made it clear we're following Stan because he's Stan. Not because his line of work or a potential whiff he's going to get on the Jennings. And it's not like what he was doing was riveting. The Stan-parts this season could have heavily benefited from more screen-time (instead of doubling down on Oleg). And again, what was supposed to be a trigger for something (the info on Gaad) amounted to nothing.
I would also have liked to see more 'on the job' time by the Jennings apart from the wheat project. I also feel like they could have given more time to Paige, and Matthew pretty much vanished from existence after the break-up.
Anyhow, bummer. While there continued to be elements of what brought the show acclaim, they were overshadowed by weak subplots and bizarre time allocations and decisions.
Hopefully the last 10 episodes bring it, but i'm not as sure now.
Ristifer
Member
Not that I know for sure, but I think the point of Stan finding out about Gaad's death was meant to show how he's starting to not follow through with his work. The Oleg scenario kind of beat him up, considering he never wanted to turn him in. By the end of the season, he's saying that he wants to get out of counter-intelligence. He was bent on going after the KGB after his partner's death in S1, but here in S5, he barely reacted and decided to think about moving on from counter-intelligence.
Stan's plot was the weakest for me, but that's how I interpreted the scene with Gaad's widow at least.
Stan's plot was the weakest for me, but that's how I interpreted the scene with Gaad's widow at least.
That last scene between Stan and Renee was really tense. I knew something was coming, but did know what.
Overall I enjoyed this season, and just love the show even when it's spinning its feels, but I also think this was the first time the show did not improve on the previous year. I have no idea how I'd rank the seasons though, they all kind of blend together for me, though I'd probably put 1 at the bottom.
Overall I enjoyed this season, and just love the show even when it's spinning its feels, but I also think this was the first time the show did not improve on the previous year. I have no idea how I'd rank the seasons though, they all kind of blend together for me, though I'd probably put 1 at the bottom.
tearsintherain
Member
damn Saty reading all that just made me realize how incredibly silly much of this season was. Yeah, Mischa getting all the way to the fucking US, and after 15 minutes with Gabriel just turning around and going back was a huge and silly Charlie Brown moment.
Mischa, Pascha and his mom, Oleg, Martha, Pastor Tim all had fairly underwhelming arcs. I guess I could see the argument that their stories portrayed a soviet union that was kinder/nicer to people than what we historically think of, but it doesn't really feel like thats a story that needed to be told. The story that NEEDS to be told is how fucking scary and crazy is it for two commies to live their daily lives in enemy territory, the depths of evil that both America and the USSR went to at the height of the cold war, and how both sides completely screwed up so many times but we barely touched on any of that this season.
Mischa, Pascha and his mom, Oleg, Martha, Pastor Tim all had fairly underwhelming arcs. I guess I could see the argument that their stories portrayed a soviet union that was kinder/nicer to people than what we historically think of, but it doesn't really feel like thats a story that needed to be told. The story that NEEDS to be told is how fucking scary and crazy is it for two commies to live their daily lives in enemy territory, the depths of evil that both America and the USSR went to at the height of the cold war, and how both sides completely screwed up so many times but we barely touched on any of that this season.
Ristifer
Member
This is how I feel, too. It was enjoyable for me, but I don't think it did anything to improve upon S4. But I still really enjoyed S4, so I'm okay with that. My only concern is tying up all the loose ends with only ten episodes left.
Fenderputty
Banned
It felt like this entire season was to set up the following one. Mischa getting all the way to the US is going to be something. They wouldn't just show us this. Same with Martha.
I have a feeling Oleg's arc, with the reveal of his mother in a camp, will result in him doing something big against the KGB too. They're clearly trying to shows he's conflicted. Kinda like Philip.
Ristifer
Member
I feel like they've already done those plot points, though. Season 1 and 2 had a lot of external threats and made it feel like they could be compromised at any moment. I think 3 and 4 had a lot of back and forth about the kinds of weapons that could get into the wrong hands either way (with some creepy subplots to boot). S5 just feels like the more character-driven season to set it up for the final season.
And I disagree about Oleg's arc. That whole arc was about how the Soviet system wasn't kinder/nicer than what people think, even with its vulnerabilities. Maybe it doesn't need to be told, but it would've been odd if Oleg gave Stan highly sensitive info only to have him go back to Moscow and live freely with no consequences. That would've been much worse.
You could have had the scenes with Oleg about the KGB interrogating him about Stan, Nina, etc. Dunno why we needed this lengthy 'food mafia' plot. Again, at the beginning it seemed like it might connect to the wheat operation in the US, but it didn't.
The Martha scenes were actually a perfect example how to do it right. The character has no bearing on the current plot but it got the right amount of screen-time. 'We aren't pretending the character is gone and done but we are also not pretending she's important enough now to get more time that she did'.
The attention Oleg got..like, if the show wasn't ending next season, i would have theorized that they are setting up Moscow as the setting for S7 where Oleg, Martha and The Jennings are all in the same city...
Hopefully we don't get Pastor Tim plot in Argentina..
The Martha scenes were actually a perfect example how to do it right. The character has no bearing on the current plot but it got the right amount of screen-time. 'We aren't pretending the character is gone and done but we are also not pretending she's important enough now to get more time that she did'.
The attention Oleg got..like, if the show wasn't ending next season, i would have theorized that they are setting up Moscow as the setting for S7 where Oleg, Martha and The Jennings are all in the same city...
Hopefully we don't get Pastor Tim plot in Argentina..
Fenderputty
Banned
Because he's "seeing" how Russia works. His learning of his mother's experiences in the work camp, and his learning about why his father stuck around was to ensure Oleg would have a good life are both things that build upon this concept.
Ristifer
Member
I also think it was lengthy at times, but since we didn't see Oleg in the finale, I think it's meant to carry for the rest of the show. But I could be wrong on that one.
I'm all for character development but for me this season really needed big, impactful plot movement and it fell flat in that way. As others in this thread have mentioned, most of the plotlines ended up going pretty much nowhere. It's still a very enjoyable show, but for a spy thriller I expect plot to drive character development and vice versa (like Breaking Bad, which kept up a pretty feverish pace for all 5 seasons while simultaneously having dense characters), but it didn't happen this season.
Still in love with Keri Russell though
Still in love with Keri Russell though
Another solid season with amazing performances, but I feel it never really had that big hook that past seasons managed to get in there. More importantly, all the Russian/Moscow stuff felt like a totally different show and way too far removed from the other story. The way the two impacted each other in the past really played on the show's urgency but that was lacking here and it felt incredibly inconsequential. I mean, is anyone really invested in Oleg at this point? I feel his story is told.
cartographer
Member
I'm not reading much until I see the episode, but I need to ask:
Are there graphic images involving wrist cutting in this episode? If so, is there a decent bit to skip forward to miss it? Knowing the previous episode I just want to be. Images like this in particular are difficult for me and I would like to skip if possible.
Are there graphic images involving wrist cutting in this episode? If so, is there a decent bit to skip forward to miss it? Knowing the previous episode I just want to be. Images like this in particular are difficult for me and I would like to skip if possible.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
I'm a few episodes behind as of yet, but I'm kind of not buying how hard Phillip is taking the murder of the lab guy. I feel like they've murdered plenty of innocents before and it's never been this big a deal. Not least that one guy's elderly mom who they killed just to get the bug into the mail robot.
No, they stop the bleeding at one point but nothing graphic.
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