Unless you're willing to swap engines or drop in a supercharger (either one is anywhere from a $3-5k+ investment), then no, you won't get to 250HP.
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The Automotive Discussion Thread
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Unless you're willing to swap engines or drop in a supercharger (either one is anywhere from a $3-5k+ investment), then no, you won't get to 250HP.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I think its the sexiest car at that level I have seen in years.
Im just torn between color, and if it should be the BRZ, or Scion.
Speaking of the Supra...
Hybrid? lol of course Toyota would make it hybrid.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/13/toyota-supra-rumors-continue-with-400-hp-hybrid-power/
Hybrid? lol of course Toyota would make it hybrid.
Liquidsnake
Banned
You mean a drop in K & N air filter wont give me the gains I am looking for?
jk. Trying to keep the levity here.I was thinking ECU tuning, straight pipe exhaust. and all the little things you can do to squeeze hp out.
250 was a little too high.
What does the FRS/BRZ offer you over the 370Z just curious.
Sexy
i think this example is for the ricer community
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Extremely.
Pretty much. That's a massive downgrade.
You're joking right? Not a chance you'll get 50HP from bolt-ons + tune out of naturally aspirated 2.0L 4-cylinder motor.
Viperbah
Member
That's not that bad...from that angle anyway.
Umm yeah. Just make sure you drive it first before you sell your 370z.
I go through these phases all the time....I wanted to sell my Z06 for a gt500 the other day after going with my friend to a ford dealership to help him look for trucks. I was forced to stare at a sexy black GT500 coupe with red stripes for like 45 minutes. It was almost too much.
Then I took my Z for a quick blast when I got home, thoughts of selling vanished.
Cheaper payments.
And possibly better handling, but thats yet to be seen. Two different cars imo.
edit: and MPG
I think you'll notice a difference on the streets, whereas on the track, the BRZ/FRS/GT-86 should hold up pretty well. Yeah, theres over 100hp less power, but surely the 600 pound weight difference should make up for something.
I'm considering the BRZ too, cept in my case, it'll be an upgrade
Death Dealer
Member
Yeah not a chance. Hopefully the engine can handle some boost.
That was the knock against the 7th gen Celica. It was far too slow considering how sporty it looked, and the 2ZZ engine didn't have much tuning potential compared to the Honda 4s.
I know from following the Lotus Elise community, with a supercharger, once you get past about 250-275 rwhp, that engine is no longer reliable, unless you rebuild the internals with stronger parts. Whereas many other small capacity Japanese engines can take much more.
197hp in a car that weighs 2600+ lbs, isn't good enough for a "sports car" in the year 2012 or whenever it comes out. On paper, it's barely faster than a Celica GTS.
But I'm just saying, I wouldn't buy an FT-86 even if it had 250hp stock. Not a fan of the styling, especially the wing.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Not really true. The Celica GTS 2zz responds to bolt-ons extremely well, and it's not unheard of to get 190-200 whp out of the 2ZZ, which is good for mid 13's or so in a Celica GTS. 200+ whp in a 2600 lb car is pretty fun, actually. But yeah, the Honda tuning scene is much better and I've seen some amazing B18/K20/F20/F22c/etc builds that blow the 2ZZ out of the water.
You can get close. It's possible to get 30-40 extra whp out of the S2000 with bolt-ons and a tune, for example.
Viperbah
Member
High compression N/A motor, not ideal for FI.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
I wouldn't have that wing on it lol or a wing, maybe lip spoiler
RS
I love the Celica but I admit the engine was the weak point of the car. It was amazingly light, 2500 lbs considering that the RSX had at least 300 lbs over it was neat but the modding potential was pretty meh if you wanted to get near 300hp and expensive considering you could get a Honda Integra faster for cheaper with proven mods.
Still it's considered a pretty good autocross car and I suppose with a Greddy supercharger it's a nice boost but still pretty weak sauce.
Death Dealer
Member
I think that's hyperbole.
And I highly doubt you can get 200 whp out of that engine with bolt on mods.
Look at this.
Celica GTS 1/4 Mile = 13.67 NA
193whp but it's got head work, valvetrain upgraded, cams swapped, and a blueprinted engine. Those aren't bolt-on mods in my book.
BoobPhysics is known to throw out highly exaggerated numbers as fact that I take with a huge grain of salt.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Lower monthly payments.
Im getting raped right now because I leased the car in the first QTR of its release.
I have never enjoyed driving more than I have in the last three years though. I am just trying to be smarter.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Literally everyone who's driven it so far disagrees with you.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Not always true either. S2000 can hit 400-450~ whp with stock compression, and it's one of the highest compression engines from the factory in the world. Not saying the FT86 engine will do the same, but it's possible if they built it well.
Ok... because I was off by 10 whp avg, it's highly exaggerated?
Don't know the conditions of that dyno or the track it was run on, could be conservative, a shitty track, or optimistic and a great track. That tune wasn't even done with good VVTI-tuning, either.
Point is, it's 1.8L engine that can get a solid 25-30 whp out of bolt-ons + tune. Some people (depending on the mods) might get closer or further away from 200 whp and have to do more. I think it's rather impressive for such a tiny engine, just like the F20/F22 in the S2000 and the K20.
But yeah, that's pretty much NA on a 4 cylinder for you. Expensive, hard-earned, relatively small gains. Here's hoping the FT86 variants have an engine that can handle 350-400 whp on boost on stock internals.
Epic Tales of Penis
Banned
Hey reilo. What car is that in the YT vid? Sounds sexy.
Death Dealer
Member
What's it got 11:1 ? I believe the 2ZZ also had a non ideal CR for FI.
But it seems like most engines don't, unless the car has a factory FI option.
Ideal is what, about 8.5:1 ? I know far more about motorcycles than cars. My cage is a shitbox Tercel, but I want a Lotus badly. It's a fever.
However I can see how someone would go for the Toyota. I'm just not into the modern trend in Japanese auto/MC design. I liked the old Datsuns and early 90s 300zx's, but don't like the looks of the GTR or the new Z's or this FT-86. The wing is terrible. But the 2000+ Celicas were cool looking cars. I wouldn't mind having one as a daily driver. But like this FT-86, more show than go.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
The FRS/BRZ is probably closer to RX8 tunabilit(new word ha) meaning not much, but again, this is more about handling and driver response than power alone, unless you do an engine swap.
That said, I'm looking forward to buying one.
That said, I'm looking forward to buying one.
I got a little bit wet watching that.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I think it's 12.5:1, so awfully high. Still, possible to eek out a little boost with a supercharger, which is apparently on the table with TRD.
The TRD supercharger is shit the only advantage is you get warranty from dealer with it. I remember I read the gains were so minimal it's not worth it compared to cost and gains of a Greddy supercharger.
Dreams-Visions
Member
GOT DAYUM.
So, don't ever use these...
I had two fail yesterday, the plastic caps popped off the end and now I have two flat tires (front left, back right). I am embarrassed for even using them and being too lazy to carry a proper air gauge for a while. First and last time for those pieces of trash.
I had two fail yesterday, the plastic caps popped off the end and now I have two flat tires (front left, back right). I am embarrassed for even using them and being too lazy to carry a proper air gauge for a while. First and last time for those pieces of trash.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
We're talking two different motors though. I'd say Subaru is more likely to build the SC. Their performance division is far, far more funded than Toyota's.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
If either company is going to do a supercharger it's going to be Toyota since they already make a few for their cars. Subaru would do a turbo if they do anything.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
No room for a turbo. Seeing as how Subaru designed the engine and are far, far more experienced with boxer-4s, they're more likely to design components for it. Toyota has only made SCs for their crappy little I4s more recently.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
The Toyota Tundra V8 has a supercharger that adds 120hp. Also, there's the possibility of adding a turbocharger to the BRZ with some funny plumbing, but I'm pretty sure Subaru said out-right that they don't have plans for it.
And apparently Toyota has already built GT-86s with superchargers for testing.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Lowering compression is really easy though if that's what it comes down to.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Yes it is, why would you downgrade from a 370z to a BRZ.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Pretty easy to add a supercharger to that giant motor and barren engine bay.
Point is that Subie made the motor. They'll likely drive additional power supply to it.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Pretty easy to add a supercharger to that giant motor and barren engine bay.
Point is that Subie made the motor. They'll likely drive additional power supply to it.
I know you can read since you're making posts but your inability to comprehend what you read is rather troubling.
The Article you Couldn't be Bothered to Read said:
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Honestly, fuck the factory supercharger. Give me a nice Vortech and I could do the rest. And getting an extra 120-150 whp out of that engine with a supercharger shouldn't be hard.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Good Christ, did you invest into this car or something? I apologize for not seeing your link, oh purveyor of all things GT86. Either you stealth edited your post with the URL or my Dell's washed out screen didn't make it the least bit apparent there was a link, like my iMac does. I'm on my hands and knees apologizing.
But let me stop beating around the fucking bush with you, this back and forth is getting annoying. I'm going to go off on a tangent here, something wildly outside of the whole supercharger issue. Your little bitchy lash out up there is you trying to defend the GT86, it is and I get it. You're anticipating it. And you can defend the absolute piss out of this car, good for you. But you know what? I have seen shit like this in the media time and time again. An underpowered car is released and the critics praise it for its simplicity and handling prowess (RX8, S2000, Porsche Cayman/Boxster 2.7L). Fast forward a few short years later, those same publications shitted on those cars for being long in the tooth, underpowered, and underwhelming - and cried tears of joy when they saw replacements or even the most modest of updates (the RX8 went through tons of revisions during its time). Do you know why there isn't much demand for NA Supras, Mitsubishi 3000GTs, and 300ZXs? Because they were fucking slow and no one gives a shit about them today, just like no one will give a shit about the GT86 or BRZ in its NA form years from now. People buy NA versions of the above cars because they can't find the proper turbo models and hope to one day have enough money to convert them from NA to FI.
BTW: No offense intended to owners of the above cars.
When the new Camaro came out, magazines went bananas about it. That it performed great, that both the V6 and V8 motors are fantastic, that it handled superbly, and some even had the gall to call its interior high quality and appealing? The fuck? Again, today those same publications lambaste the Camaro, in some cases placing it dead last against its rivals, claiming its driving dynamics are poor and the interior atrocious. My, how a tune can change when you *don't* have PR people breathing down your back.
The 350Z was heralded by damn near everyone when it came out, and up until 2006 people loved its motor. But the minute it received an overhaul in 2007 with an all new motor, those same publications were very quick to shit on the original car's motor despite loving it and singing its praises just a short time ago, up until 2005 when the VQ35DE received a minor workover itself.
And there's a damn fine reason for that, and having been a journalist for 10 years, being invited to all of these early events, being flown out, all expenses paid, the perks, the fun, and all of that bullshit...it all comes at a price. Being positive. Being positive about the reason why a company just spent thousands of dollars on your ass and your big mouth. Because they fucking bought you. They didn't want to buy ad space in your publication which would've cost 5-10 times more, no they wanted to buy you. You have clout and cred with your readers - meanwhile ads do not.
And when I went to a press event, a gaming one actually, and spoke the truth about every product Eidos had to offer...they cut me. Meanwhile other pubs were hailing shit like 25 to Life as the next great thing. That was nearly 7 years ago. I never went to another paid function like this (not for work at least, just tag alongs), and kept it to only the local stuff in NYC. I declined all invites to San Francisco, Tokyo, Playboy mansion, Los Angeles, Vegas, Miami, and even some haunted house in bumblefuck for a Fatal Frame press event. I denied it all.
Why? Because mass media gatherings for product launches like this generate mostly positive buzz. And if you don't say nice things? You get the PR snip - you're off the lists, no more invites, limited access to review fleets, and limited access to company executives...you're no longer given two shits about. The publications need to court the sack of the manufacturer, because without them they can't exist - it's the simple nature of the beast.
So when I see all of this talk about the GT86/BRZ - to me it is all hyperbole until I drive the thing myself. I have the experience, knowledge and foresight to simply know what to expect out of a product like this: a slow car, with an underwhelming interior, decent handling, for way more money than it's worth. I have seen the videos, the way it accelerates, the way it moves, handles, and how it looks - there's already enough out there to tell me this thing is not even worth it without a significant boost in power. But I will drive one as soon as I get the chance to...because I actually love being surprised by cars I had no faith in. Thus far, it's only happened once and that was a new Dodge Challenger SRT8 392.
Soo...uhhh....yeah. Shut up.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Man, I had been having a shitty day but that really turned it around.
33-Hit-Combo
Member
Side sure looks nice, but it's the front/rear that has slightly disproportionate features (IMO). Needs a better fix, the TRD kit didn't solve it for me from the renders we've previously seen.
Also the one behind the TRD in the 2nd pic, looks to have previously unseen kit? BRZ unknown spec?
Also the one behind the TRD in the 2nd pic, looks to have previously unseen kit? BRZ unknown spec?
Liquidsnake
Banned
^^^^^
Wow.
Wow.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It really is a dangerous (read: foolhardy) strategy to use the word "literally" pretty much ever
Mazda 3 fans, I just drove a new model with "SkyActiv" and can report that aside from getting 42mpg and having a slightly nicer interior, it is exactly the same as the old car (which is a compliment, of course) so now it is the most no-brainer entry-level car reccomendation on gaf.
New answer:
Q: I need a small car for less than $20k that is nice.
A: Mazda 3.
The old answer was:
A: A Mazda 3 because it is quite fast and has a lovely interior but isn't great on fuel.
New answer:
Q: I need a small car for less than $20k that is nice.
A: Mazda 3.
The old answer was:
A: A Mazda 3 because it is quite fast and has a lovely interior but isn't great on fuel.
not really, aren't you currently trying to dump your wife for a perceived upgrade as well?
lastflowers
Banned
I was about to ask for help purchasing a car ...
It looks like I'll start my research by focusing on the Mazda 3.
First time Car buyer.
Fresh out of college.
Pretty good salary.
Will be in seattle.
I was looking at the Ford Focus and the Honda Civic. Now perhaps the Mazda 3. Does anyone else have suggestions for new cars? I'm looking at probably up to 30K, but honestly I'm not sure exactly what would be ideal.
Also, are there any other good sites to look at for research? I've been looking primarily at Edmunds and motortrend.
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