TheContact
Member
Thinking about getting the 2012 Ford Focus. Anyone have it? I heard the difference between 2011-2012 was pretty big.
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The Automotive Discussion Thread
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Khalifa Jayy
Banned
Owned a 2009 for two years. Very dependable trucks. They are also extremely comfortable and great looking imo. I had an LT trim (leather, sunroof, etc.) and it felt like a semi-luxurious vehicle - wood trim and all. I would definitely recommend it. Oh and the process to take off the covers and back window takes three minutes tops.
Chris Harris drives and loves the GT 86.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-G6CZ7g
Really really loves it. This is far and away the best test drive video thus far.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-G6CZ7g
Really really loves it. This is far and away the best test drive video thus far.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Little Bit belated, but I did finally pick up My Saab Turbo X six-speed!
Love it. Such a sharp looking car.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Know what? Not a fan of the engine note, you can tell they tried to make it exciting but it's still a 2L 4cyl--it's just not going to have a meaty sound. I wonder if that can be mucked around with to get a richer note.
Circle T
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhVPdJUtrLI
Not a bad start. Just need someone to make a set of slightly unequal length exhaust manifolds to get back a little of that classic Subie grumble.
shinshoryuken
Member
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Easily. S2000 with 3" well-made exhaust sounds deep and extremely rich, like a mean exotic. GT86 just needs a nice exhaust. I could custom make one that'd make it sound 100x better.
Of course the stock GT86 exhaust is gonna suck.
shinshoryuken
Member
GT 86 is a nice looking car...but I don't agree that having a fun car means less grip or less power....
driving a powerful car is fun...
driving a powerful car is fun...
The point that was made in the video was that the GT 86 is a departure from the mindset of more power = more fun. More power is lots of fun but a light and nimble car with the right amount of power can be tons of fun too.
shinshoryuken
Member
Light and nimble car be fun BUT a heavy, powerful, nimble car can also be tons of fun.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
To me, the ideal fun car is anything that's around the 3000lb, 300HP, RWD mark - give or take.
This is why I love my Z so much. It matches every pound with horsepower. It weighs 3300lbs, and packs 332HP. I will turn blue in the face preaching this. It's one of the reasons why the E46 M3 was such a hoot to drive back in the day (even the EU E36 M3, and the Z4 M Coupe), the balance of weight and power and precision was truly perfect for the car.
That's why the E92 M3, as fantastic of a car as it is, wasn't as highly revered - it was confused, it didn't know if it wanted to be a sports car, a muscle car, or a grand tourer - a common plague that the M-division has been suffering from for the past 4 years now (thanks X5M, X6M). And that's when the 1M Coupe came in and saved the day with a back-to-basics design. I only say this because the E92 M3 was a car I test drove twice, once 6MT another time DCT - and just couldn't figure out what was it about the car that didn't grab me. I loved the car, but I couldn't see myself owning one, as unusual as that may sound. The 335i seemed like a better choice, too (which is why I had my GF get one after she test drove it with me).
But anyway. These "reviews" and limited seat time impressions (let's be honest...20 minutes? They aren't reviews) truly mean nothing. Toyota rushed the journos through the entire process, you couldn't drive the car in day-to-day conditions, traffic, bumpy roads, etc. We still don't know enough about the car. All we know is that it handles well and it has a nice gearbox - that's it. It's the same bit of praise regurgitated over and over again. It tells me nothing, I still don't care. I want to see it driven in a real-world environment, not a glassy smooth track.
Edit: But I'll never say no to more power, as long as it is manageable - which is why I'll turn down Z06s, ZR1s, Mustang GT500s, and all of those other ludicrously overpowered American behemoths that either ride on archaic suspensions, or don't have nearly the sophistication and poise to keep you from killing yourself from lightly tapping on the throttle during a light drizzle over a minor bump. Give me the GT-R. Give me the Astons. Give me the R8 V10. Give me an LP560. Give me the LF-A.
This is why I love my Z so much. It matches every pound with horsepower. It weighs 3300lbs, and packs 332HP. I will turn blue in the face preaching this. It's one of the reasons why the E46 M3 was such a hoot to drive back in the day (even the EU E36 M3, and the Z4 M Coupe), the balance of weight and power and precision was truly perfect for the car.
That's why the E92 M3, as fantastic of a car as it is, wasn't as highly revered - it was confused, it didn't know if it wanted to be a sports car, a muscle car, or a grand tourer - a common plague that the M-division has been suffering from for the past 4 years now (thanks X5M, X6M). And that's when the 1M Coupe came in and saved the day with a back-to-basics design. I only say this because the E92 M3 was a car I test drove twice, once 6MT another time DCT - and just couldn't figure out what was it about the car that didn't grab me. I loved the car, but I couldn't see myself owning one, as unusual as that may sound. The 335i seemed like a better choice, too (which is why I had my GF get one after she test drove it with me).
But anyway. These "reviews" and limited seat time impressions (let's be honest...20 minutes? They aren't reviews) truly mean nothing. Toyota rushed the journos through the entire process, you couldn't drive the car in day-to-day conditions, traffic, bumpy roads, etc. We still don't know enough about the car. All we know is that it handles well and it has a nice gearbox - that's it. It's the same bit of praise regurgitated over and over again. It tells me nothing, I still don't care. I want to see it driven in a real-world environment, not a glassy smooth track.
Edit: But I'll never say no to more power, as long as it is manageable - which is why I'll turn down Z06s, ZR1s, Mustang GT500s, and all of those other ludicrously overpowered American behemoths that either ride on archaic suspensions, or don't have nearly the sophistication and poise to keep you from killing yourself from lightly tapping on the throttle during a light drizzle over a minor bump. Give me the GT-R. Give me the Astons. Give me the R8 V10. Give me an LP560. Give me the LF-A.
It is on my list of desirable cheap little cars. I would still go for the new Mazda 3 with Bluetec, or whatever their better fuel mileage thing is called tho. Also try the Honda Fit. Remarkable fun and capacity.
shinshoryuken
Member
another factor is how the suspension is set up... a heavy car can feel nimble if the suspension is set up correctly ....and add power.
1 thing you are wrong is that z06s and Zr1 handle extremely well.
Handles better than any Z....well most cars actually...
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Absolute fail on Alpha's part. z06 and zr1 are some of the best handling cars in the world.
*deducts points from Alpha*
shinshoryuken
Member
well he kinda did...
The Z06/ZR1 is a sports car with super car performance...suppose to be powerful ....Plus its actually fine driving on regular street.
like I said it handles better than a Z...
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Most of your posts just sound like you're just saying your car is the best car evar because it happens to be the car you own.
weekend_warrior
Banned
HRE's new line of wheels. I came.
I love deep dish rims. Reminds me off the F40.
GamePnoy74
Member
If I cruise in this I need to be sportin a Tigers cap, black aviator shades, a half-buttoned Hawaiian shirt, some chest hair, and a thick p-stache, yo.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I urge you all to watch this video review of the FT86 by Chris Harris. It is by far the best review to date. For a man that owns a Porsche GT3 he seems awfully excited about Toyotas latest endeavor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-G6CZ7g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-G6CZ7g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
shinshoryuken
Member
that video review sucks!!...because it looks exactly like the video that was posted on this same page.......and people are talking about it already on this same page........
Right, but a heavy, powerful, nimble car is not likely to be cheap.
Shortt Sirket
Member
There is something to be said about driving a slower car fast. Being able to really try and wring every last ounce of power out of a car can be a lot of fun. I remember driving my friends mildly modified CR-X and it was so much fun. Thing had only like 160hp but being able to slam the gas to the floor and scream it around corners was a lot of fun. My E36 M3 doesn't have a lot of HP and it is still a blast to drive every single day.
I think they could have solved this issue like Hyundai did with the Genesis Coupe. Give us a basic, lower HP model and then give us a "premium" version with a better motor and such.
Either way, I still really dig the looks of the BRZ.
I think they could have solved this issue like Hyundai did with the Genesis Coupe. Give us a basic, lower HP model and then give us a "premium" version with a better motor and such.
Either way, I still really dig the looks of the BRZ.
Going by your equation you are using to confirm how good the Z is the e92 M3 would be even better 414hp, 3600LB. But then again I am just showing my bias as well since I drive an M3 lol 
Also the M3 has been giving Worlds best car by motortrend, Insideline (long term tests). Plus Top Gear once again picked it over all its competition even though it was 4 years older in design, I just find it funny people still try to say the M3 is confused and isnt as good as previous gens.
Also the M3 has been giving Worlds best car by motortrend, Insideline (long term tests). Plus Top Gear once again picked it over all its competition even though it was 4 years older in design, I just find it funny people still try to say the M3 is confused and isnt as good as previous gens. AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Where did ever compare a Corvette to a 370Z? Can you guys read? I compared the Vettes to other supercars in my last sentence, nowhere did I even bring up the 370Z near the Z06 or ZR1. The only person who actually understood what I said was reilo. I know that both of those Vettes are superb handling cars, I've driven plenty of C6 LS3s and a Z06 to know that. But I also know that the Z06 is an extremely difficult car to enjoy daily, especially when it's wet outside frequently - it is a very jumpy and touchy car. It requires a whole ton of finesse, more than I'd care to focus on driving it everyday.
Never compared Z handling to Z06 handling.
Never said they were bad handling cars. I said they aren't poised or manageable in many situations for their power, those are two pretty different ballparks. The last Vipers were superbly capable machines, more so than Corvettes, but they were extremely difficult to manage with all of that power.
Ding. That and as much as people hate them, they do need those electronic nannies to keep unskilled idiots on the road, something the American supercars (unlike their Japanese and European rivals) lack considerably until now.
No shit. I never said a 370Z handled better. Wtf?
Right, because I didn't go out there and mention a handful of BMW M cars that I love and hold to the same standard as the Z in their respective performance categories? Nope. I never did that. No, I just blatantly said 370Z iz teh bettarz than Z06! LAWLZ TROLLOLOL.
Never compared Z handling to Z06 handling.
Never said they were bad handling cars. I said they aren't poised or manageable in many situations for their power, those are two pretty different ballparks. The last Vipers were superbly capable machines, more so than Corvettes, but they were extremely difficult to manage with all of that power.
Ding. That and as much as people hate them, they do need those electronic nannies to keep unskilled idiots on the road, something the American supercars (unlike their Japanese and European rivals) lack considerably until now.
No shit. I never said a 370Z handled better. Wtf?
Right, because I didn't go out there and mention a handful of BMW M cars that I love and hold to the same standard as the Z in their respective performance categories? Nope. I never did that. No, I just blatantly said 370Z iz teh bettarz than Z06! LAWLZ TROLLOLOL.
I think Chris Harris has a point about the philosophy behind modern sports cars being more about the machine than about the driver. Look at the obsession with lap times around the nurburgring ring -- the vast majority of these cars won't spend any time on any track, yet people hold up differences in times around that track as a meaningful metric. But when it comes to RWD cars, this sort of choice is absent from the new car market. If nothing else, you have to appreciate the fact that Toyota is attempting to fill a gap, even if it's in a segment that doesn't appeal to you. It's a Toyota with a N/A boxer engine, so I would assume the operating costs with a car like this are going to be significantly lower than any other RWD car currently available.
AlphaSnake still has a point about having limited seat time at a press event though. There are flaws that may not yet be clear, and really, it's probably easy to get caught in the hype when you are driving a yet to be released car at a nice racetrack in Japan. I get his skepticism of limited driver impressions at manufacturer-run events, but in terms of pricing and power, people like him have unrealistic expectations and appear to want this car to be something it was never intended to be.
AlphaSnake still has a point about having limited seat time at a press event though. There are flaws that may not yet be clear, and really, it's probably easy to get caught in the hype when you are driving a yet to be released car at a nice racetrack in Japan. I get his skepticism of limited driver impressions at manufacturer-run events, but in terms of pricing and power, people like him have unrealistic expectations and appear to want this car to be something it was never intended to be.
shinshoryuken
Member
OK, If you're going by that...I never said you did...
Yup..but I say the Z06/ZR1 handles better than the Z....
not true at all....unless you are a dumbass and just slam the trottle. The Z06/ZR1 handles fine on a light drizzle over a minor bump....
Liquidsnake
Banned
You don't need to be a dick to everyone in this thread.^^^
Going by your equation you are using to confirm how good the Z is the e92 M3 would be even better 414hp, 3600LB. But then again I am just showing my bias as well since I drive an M3 lol
I was at a Cadillac CTS-V event and there was a professional racecar driver there who was teaching us how to properly drive on the track. This guy was seriously talented as he had won with his team, the Rolex 24 Hours twice a few years ago and has raced for BMW and Porsche as well.
We talked a bit about BMW's and he said he still preferred the older E46 M3 to the newer E92. To me that is plenty validation enough that BMW has made the E92 less of a driver's car and more of a luxury sports saloon. He complained about weight, handling, and just the feel.
I usually don't put faith Auto publication rankings because I feel that emotions being part of the driving experience it is too biased sometimes to emotional swings of the moment. Also as much as I love Top Gear I don't hang onto every word they say for the same reasons.
So being as "good" as the previous gen... that is a matter of opinion. I can't say you're wrong but I personally think the M3 needs to be less luxury and just more car. I feel that they load it up with luxury features because its the most expensive model and I see plenty of people who buy it because it is the most expensive model thus think it needs to be as luxurious as the other models in the family.
Miggytronz
Member
The FIA has approved a new chassis to compete in its own class. It's called 'Shortcar' and is powered 1,000-cc motorcycle engines. They do 0-62 MPH in 2.6 seconds. The kit is $19,000:
http://shortcar.com/en/
http://shortcar.com/en/
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
The kind of people who can afford such cars are typically dumbasses who don't understand that summer compound + freezing drizzle = bricks being shat. 95% of drivers out there, including those who own sports cars, are under the assumption that all tires function the same - they have no idea that their 500HP and 650HP car is equipped with tires NOT made for weather below 55-degrees.
This this this this this.
I have been to enough Cars & Coffee events where all kinds of sports and hyper cars show up (Ferraris, Aston Martins, Audi R8s, Porsches, Lambos, you name it...) and what I found out is that 85% of the people that own those cars aren't gear heads. They are people with too much money. They especially aren't drivers.
For example, there's this guy that bought a Audi R8 V8 once the V10s come out because he was finally able to afford it since the used ones dropped in value. He also owns a black NSX. You'd think he was a gearhead? Hell no.
He built his own rear diffuser for the R8... made out of wood so it could match the look of the R8 GT. He also talked about how he was going to buy a Celica wing off of ebay, split it in half and extend it and put it on the R8 because it looked similar enough to the GT wing.
He was a ricer that owned an Audi R8.
I won't even go into the guy that showed up in a F430 (and his mom afterwards in a F430 Scuderia...) and knew absolutely ZERO about cars.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Pretty much.
If it wasn't for me, my brother's dopey ass would never know why his M6 required winter wheels. And what made his V10 R8 particularly special. Rich people know about one thing: money. Not much else matters to them beyond that.
Us common folk, we like other things...like the Knicks. Or Blazers.
We, ironically, also collect jars and bottle our tears in them. We'll call that a hobby too.
If it wasn't for me, my brother's dopey ass would never know why his M6 required winter wheels. And what made his V10 R8 particularly special. Rich people know about one thing: money. Not much else matters to them beyond that.
Us common folk, we like other things...like the Knicks. Or Blazers.
We, ironically, also collect jars and bottle our tears in them. We'll call that a hobby too.
shinshoryuken
Member
My apologies... I'll behave for now on.
Oh I was. The guy looked like a short overweight Fabio without the sex appeal. The damn rotors on the Scuderia were bigger than my 18" wheels.
That's pretty funny right there.
Truth. A while back I had two Toyota MR-2's at he the same time, both the old boxy 80's AW11 model. One was an '85 NA and the other was an '88 Supercharged. They really were both a blast to drive. But the Supercharged was a bit heavier and you had to be more tender with it or the back end would get out from under you as mid-engined cars tend to do. But the '85 was lighter and the stock 4AGE engine just isn't a powerhouse. I could push the '85 to it's limits and thus is was a more enjoyable drive except in a straight line from a stop, that's where the supercharged one shined.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
I thought it was common knowledge that the ZR1 handles fantastically due to it's magnetic suspension and that the Z06 can be quite squirrely when wringing it out. Also, that the Z06 is a terrible commuter car due to being so still, likewise with the Nissan Z.
And add me to the light cars are fun crowd.
I had a lot of fun blasting around the twisties in my brother's RX7 and it was NA.
And add me to the light cars are fun crowd.
I had a lot of fun blasting around the twisties in my brother's RX7 and it was NA.
Friend of mine has a black Italia with black rims and black brightwork which is his daily driver (!). He also has an Ariel Atom. And a Gallardo LM. So yeah. I am jelly.
Viperbah
Member
You can order a Z06 with magnetic suspension now....but your not going to feel a difference on the street. In the corvette crowd most people actually prefer the the Z06 over ZR1 on a track due to it being N/A.
And yes any RWD car with soft tires is not fun to drive daily, but none of these types of cars were meant to do so. Sure a GTR is going to be better for a daily, it comes with all season tires and is AWD.
The BRZ (86/FRS) you can tell with a proper exhaust will sound good. I'm sure it's fun to drive within understanding what it is: A sporty looking, kinda fun, good sounding, probably decent MPG commuter car. There's many people that think this thing is the second coming. That they swallowed the PR line whole. They honestly think that it's going to destroy Evos, STIs, Mustang GT/Bosses, and Vettes at a track/back road (equal drivers). It's like the Miata guy that told me, "yeah, your Evo is fast, but lets see you go through the corners faster than my Miata".
That said, I'd buy a BRZ, put a SPT exhaust, short-shifter with full bushing kit, intake, flash, and nice wheels and drive it as my commuter. It's a cool little commuter car that's not as boring as other daily commuter cars.
Also, a GT-R is also a better daily because it's more usable power, able to be driven in more weather types/areas, and it's interior isn't made out of recycled 80's drug store children's toys as in it's interior matches the cost of the car more believably.
That said, I'd buy a BRZ, put a SPT exhaust, short-shifter with full bushing kit, intake, flash, and nice wheels and drive it as my commuter. It's a cool little commuter car that's not as boring as other daily commuter cars.
Also, a GT-R is also a better daily because it's more usable power, able to be driven in more weather types/areas, and it's interior isn't made out of recycled 80's drug store children's toys as in it's interior matches the cost of the car more believably.
Well said.
Viperbah
Member
Basically because it's AWD. Also ouch on the typical vette interior bash.
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