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The Automotive Discussion Thread

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Diseased Yak

Gold Member
Haha man, I forget how GAF is sometimes. All I wanted was some discussion about some cars, but of course people come out of the woodwork to pontificate on my financial decisions without knowing anything about me. Could it be that I actually worked for and can now allow myself this indulgence?! Oh my no, I must be a youngster, fresh in the world, making a horrible decision, not someone who has had a career for 2 decades and has plenty of money in the bank, and can finally afford, easily, to drive what he wants to drive.

God fucking forbid.
 

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Test drove a 2012 Jaguar XF with the 5.0L V8 - twice. Looking to buy one when my fiancee and I move to our new house in Florida next year. Trading in the BMW for it - since the Bimmer is an AWD coupe, we won't need it down there and resale value is higher in NYC than Florida. I love this Jag, I truly do. It is solid, and it handles extremely well. The steering response is surprisingly tight and very responsive. I was absolutely stunned, actually, at how responsive the steering was - easily more responsive than that of my Audi.

Body roll is very, very composed - hardly a tilt while taking a tight-ish twist at 50MPH. The interior is extremely inviting, the steering wheel has the right feel, the right size, and the right thickness. The transmission in Sport mode, when operated with the paddles, feels like a bolt-action rifle with every shift - instantaneous for a torque-converter gearbox, stupendously fast and punchy, much like a dual clutch. Pulling back the paddles for every shift gets very addictive very fast. This car is the definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Or should it be a jaguar in sheep's clothing? You get the point.

That growling V8 roars in the front, and the exhaust does its best to subdue and muffle that noise, as does the insulated cabin...but it can't hide a lot of that roar, and thank God for that. The noise this 5-liter V8 makes is seductive and absolutely giggle worthy. V8s like this always manage to get huge laughs out of me because of the sounds they make, and I love them for it - it's naturally aspirated, no frills, no bullshit, just smooth and linear power. Last time I giggled driving a V8 was a 2010 Aston Martin V8 Vantage a few years ago. The Jaguar does practically everything right, from the inviting interior, to the dynamics of the lightweight aluminum chassis, to the steering feel, the motor, the noises, the transmission, those gorgeous, tried-and-true Ian Callum dimensions front-to-back make this a Jag that our parents always lusted over in the 60s, 70s and even 80s. This is the Jaguar that was balsy enough to go and develop a 200MPH supercar to compete with Ferrari...and I can't wait to say I own one in the coming months.

If I had any negatives to state, I'd say that perhaps the touchscreen (which is quite colorful and responsive) is a bit too small. Moreover, when the backup camera engages and the sun is blasting directly on the screen, it washes the entire picture out. Fortunately, the car comes equipped with parking sensors all around as standard, so in the event that your screen is washed out from direct sunlight, parking the car is still a breeze as the view all around from every angle is very clear and the sensors work superbly well to aid you. Also, the cupholder doors are rather plasticky and feel a bit on the cheap side. And because this is a RWD car, the tunnel for the driveshaft to run through gives the backseats a hump right in the center, which seems to minimize space just a tad. Still, interior room seemed more grand than a Merc E-Class, and about on par with the Audi A6 and 5-series.

At $52K loaded with everything you need out of the box, if Jaguar offered the XF with AWD earlier, I wouldn't be leasing a 2012 Supercharged A6 right now, I'd have gotten this instead. Yes, I prefer the Jaguar over the Audi - even if it's just by a hair. But with my move to Florida underway, I'll get my chance to own the Jag in the near future and I'm ecstatic.
 
If you've got 110k and you want to treat yourself, you go buy yourself a 30k or 40k dollar car tops. Not a (depreciating asset) 80k-100k car and wipe out your windfall. Even if you've got a good job, you now have an uber-expensive ridiculous upkeep vehicle on a non-richman salary.

How do you know he's not on a richman salary?
 

Zyzyxxz

Member
As someone who isn't super enthusiastic about the looks of many recent Audis you guys are nuts

lead2-audi-quattro-concept-drive.jpg


amazing *still love the coupe quattro so biased...*

forgot all about that concept, it's an amazing nod to old school while going modern, although I have to disagree with you on their contemporary designs, I am in love with current Audi's over the rest of the German lineup.
 

Enron

Banned
Haha man, I forget how GAF is sometimes. All I wanted was some discussion about some cars, but of course people come out of the woodwork to pontificate on my financial decisions without knowing anything about me. Could it be that I actually worked for and can now allow myself this indulgence?! Oh my no, I must be a youngster, fresh in the world, making a horrible decision, not someone who has had a career for 2 decades and has plenty of money in the bank, and can finally afford, easily, to drive what he wants to drive.

God fucking forbid.

No one said you didn't work for it or any of that. But that still doesn't change the fact that it's a bad idea unless your income is sufficiently high enough that one of these cars and its upkeep is not a problem. And if you had to wait for a windfall for this to be possible, chances are that it isn't.
 

coldfoot

Banned
Test drove a 2012 Jaguar XF with the 5.0L V8 - twice. Looking to buy one when my fiancee and I move to our new house in Florida next year. Trading in the BMW for it - since the Bimmer is an AWD coupe, we won't need it down there and resale value is higher in NYC than Florida. I love this Jag, I truly do. It is solid, and it handles extremely well. The steering response is surprisingly tight and very responsive. I was absolutely stunned, actually, at how responsive the steering was - easily more responsive than that of my Audi.

Body roll is very, very composed - hardly a tilt while taking a tight-ish twist at 50MPH. The interior is extremely inviting, the steering wheel has the right feel, the right size, and the right thickness. The transmission in Sport mode, when operated with the paddles, feels like a bolt-action rifle with every shift - instantaneous for a torque-converter gearbox, stupendously fast and punchy, much like a dual clutch. Pulling back the paddles for every shift gets very addictive very fast. This car is the definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Or should it be a jaguar in sheep's clothing? You get the point.

That growling V8 roars in the front, and the exhaust does its best to subdue and muffle that noise, as does the insulated cabin...but it can't hide a lot of that roar, and thank God for that. The noise this 5-liter V8 makes is seductive and absolutely giggle worthy. V8s like this always manage to get huge laughs out of me because of the sounds they make, and I love them for it - it's naturally aspirated, no frills, no bullshit, just smooth and linear power. Last time I giggled driving a V8 was a 2010 Aston Martin V8 Vantage a few years ago. The Jaguar does practically everything right, from the inviting interior, to the dynamics of the lightweight aluminum chassis, to the steering feel, the motor, the noises, the transmission, those gorgeous, tried-and-true Ian Callum dimensions front-to-back make this a Jag that our parents always lusted over in the 60s, 70s and even 80s. This is the Jaguar that was balsy enough to go and develop a 200MPH supercar to compete with Ferrari...and I can't wait to say I own one in the coming months.

If I had any negatives to state, I'd say that perhaps the touchscreen (which is quite colorful and responsive) is a bit too small. Moreover, when the backup camera engages and the sun is blasting directly on the screen, it washes the entire picture out. Fortunately, the car comes equipped with parking sensors all around as standard, so in the event that your screen is washed out from direct sunlight, parking the car is still a breeze as the view all around from every angle is very clear and the sensors work superbly well to aid you. Also, the cupholder doors are rather plasticky and feel a bit on the cheap side. And because this is a RWD car, the tunnel for the driveshaft to run through gives the backseats a hump right in the center, which seems to minimize space just a tad. Still, interior room seemed more grand than a Merc E-Class, and about on par with the Audi A6 and 5-series.

At $52K loaded with everything you need out of the box, if Jaguar offered the XF with AWD earlier, I wouldn't be leasing a 2012 Supercharged A6 right now, I'd have gotten this instead. Yes, I prefer the Jaguar over the Audi - even if it's just by a hair. But with my move to Florida underway, I'll get my chance to own the Jag in the near future and I'm ecstatic.

I love the XF and think it's a better car than an A6 or a 5-series, simply because it looks 100x better. However there are 2 things you need to know:

1. Jags depreciate even faster than BMW's. 2010 XF's are going for $25K with low miles on them.
2. XF's getting a 8-speed auto for all models next year but the V8 is going away unless you pony up for the supercharged versions.
 

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
the 385 hp version going from the 52k price?

Yep. The cars all come pretty much fully loaded with a small tidbit of options to add here and there, but they're mostly pointless.

I love the XF and think it's a better car than an A6 or a 5-series, simply because it looks 100x better. However there are 2 things you need to know:

1. Jags depreciate even faster than BMW's. 2010 XF's are going for $25K with low miles on them.
2. XF's getting a 8-speed auto for all models next year but the V8 is going away unless you pony up for the supercharged versions.

1) This was true, and it serves truth for older XFs because the base 4.2L with 300HP wasn't a desirable car at all, and was fairly barebones in options (no standard xenons, for example). If you look at the supercharged variants, the prices are still quite good. And of course, the updated sheet metal of this current car hurt the resale of the older ones quite a bit - because it makes the older headlights look that much more awful.

2) The V8s are not going away. Only the standard Supercharged V8 with 470HP is. So beginning for 2013 there will be a Supercharged 3.0L V6 AWD, a 5.0L V8 RWD, and the Supercharged 5.0L V8 with 510HP. I looked at the 2013 order sheet.
 

coldfoot

Banned
1) This was true, and it serves truth for older XFs because the base 4.2L with 300HP wasn't a desirable car at all, and was fairly barebones in options (no standard xenons, for example). If you look at the supercharged variants, the prices are still quite good. And of course, the updated sheet metal of this current car hurt the resale of the older ones quite a bit - because it makes the older headlights look that much more awful.
Even 2010 models with the 5.0 are under 30K easily with less than 30-40K miles on them. I get that 2012 models had a facelift, but still people perceive Jaguars as even more costly to run than BMW's and such which affects their resale.

2) The V8s are not going away. Only the standard Supercharged V8 with 470HP is. So beginning for 2013 there will be a Supercharged 3.0L V6 AWD, a 5.0L V8 RWD, and the Supercharged 5.0L V8 with 510HP. I looked at the 2013 order sheet.
That's good to know, I thought the base V8 was going away. So you might want to wait for the 2013 then to get the 8 speed auto. It's also downright criminal that a 510-hp Jaguar XFR gets beaten by a 420-hp S6/S7...I think it's due to the transmission, so 8-speed might be worth waiting for.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
I test drove new XJ the last year (I wasn't planing to buy, but just was invited to a launch even at local dealership). Was surprised how well the car accelerated and handled for how huge a car it is.

One thing I really, and I mean really didn't like in XJ was that LCD-screen based gauge panel. Its quality just didn't seem befitting of a car that expensive. Should have gone with some high end OLED or something other than that cheap looking thing.

My overall impression about the car was that it was competing with Mercedes S in the class, but didn't feel as 'rich' as S, but it was probably faster/better to drive, and was also a lot less expensive.
 

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Even 2010 models with the 5.0 are under 30K easily with less than 30-40K miles on them. I get that 2012 models had a facelift, but still people perceive Jaguars as even more costly to run than BMW's and such which affects their resale.


That's good to know, I thought the base V8 was going away. So you might want to wait for the 2013 then to get the 8 speed auto. It's also downright criminal that a 510-hp Jaguar XFR gets beaten by a 420-hp S6/S7...I think it's due to the transmission, so 8-speed might be worth waiting for.

Not in NY and not a certified car. 2010 5.0s are selling for close to 40K. Anything on the cheaper end has too much mileage and is a base 4.2L - I just did a quick search on AutoTrader.
 

coldfoot

Banned
Not in NY and not a certified car. 2010 5.0s are selling for close to 40K. Anything on the cheaper end has too much mileage and is a base 4.2L - I just did a quick search on AutoTrader.
Depends on your criteria for too much mileage but I found this:
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=323561008

In any case there are great lease offers on XF's, you get the same monthly payments as a BMW 5 but with 0 down instead of 5K, etc, so I'd definitely swing for a new one too.
I drive less then 8k miles a year though, so any car is just too much excess for me.
 
Test drove a 2012 Jaguar XF with the 5.0L V8 - twice. Looking to buy one when my fiancee and I move to our new house in Florida next year. Trading in the BMW for it - since the Bimmer is an AWD coupe, we won't need it down there and resale value is higher in NYC than Florida. I love this Jag, I truly do. It is solid, and it handles extremely well. The steering response is surprisingly tight and very responsive. I was absolutely stunned, actually, at how responsive the steering was - easily more responsive than that of my Audi.

Body roll is very, very composed - hardly a tilt while taking a tight-ish twist at 50MPH. The interior is extremely inviting, the steering wheel has the right feel, the right size, and the right thickness. The transmission in Sport mode, when operated with the paddles, feels like a bolt-action rifle with every shift - instantaneous for a torque-converter gearbox, stupendously fast and punchy, much like a dual clutch. Pulling back the paddles for every shift gets very addictive very fast. This car is the definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Or should it be a jaguar in sheep's clothing? You get the point.

That growling V8 roars in the front, and the exhaust does its best to subdue and muffle that noise, as does the insulated cabin...but it can't hide a lot of that roar, and thank God for that. The noise this 5-liter V8 makes is seductive and absolutely giggle worthy. V8s like this always manage to get huge laughs out of me because of the sounds they make, and I love them for it - it's naturally aspirated, no frills, no bullshit, just smooth and linear power. Last time I giggled driving a V8 was a 2010 Aston Martin V8 Vantage a few years ago. The Jaguar does practically everything right, from the inviting interior, to the dynamics of the lightweight aluminum chassis, to the steering feel, the motor, the noises, the transmission, those gorgeous, tried-and-true Ian Callum dimensions front-to-back make this a Jag that our parents always lusted over in the 60s, 70s and even 80s. This is the Jaguar that was balsy enough to go and develop a 200MPH supercar to compete with Ferrari...and I can't wait to say I own one in the coming months.

If I had any negatives to state, I'd say that perhaps the touchscreen (which is quite colorful and responsive) is a bit too small. Moreover, when the backup camera engages and the sun is blasting directly on the screen, it washes the entire picture out. Fortunately, the car comes equipped with parking sensors all around as standard, so in the event that your screen is washed out from direct sunlight, parking the car is still a breeze as the view all around from every angle is very clear and the sensors work superbly well to aid you. Also, the cupholder doors are rather plasticky and feel a bit on the cheap side. And because this is a RWD car, the tunnel for the driveshaft to run through gives the backseats a hump right in the center, which seems to minimize space just a tad. Still, interior room seemed more grand than a Merc E-Class, and about on par with the Audi A6 and 5-series.

At $52K loaded with everything you need out of the box, if Jaguar offered the XF with AWD earlier, I wouldn't be leasing a 2012 Supercharged A6 right now, I'd have gotten this instead. Yes, I prefer the Jaguar over the Audi - even if it's just by a hair. But with my move to Florida underway, I'll get my chance to own the Jag in the near future and I'm ecstatic.

I got all excited until I realised you were talking about the 6-spd model, you really ought to try out the 8-spd if you enjoyed it that much.

My negative on it would also be the touch screen, but for other reasons. It's just so archaic to use! I'm young and in to my electronics, but I had trouble finding buttons most the time when navigating the options and inputs.

Also I recall XF doesn't have the alum chassis, the XJ does and that's why they're almost the same weight.
 

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I got all excited until I realised you were talking about the 6-spd model, you really ought to try out the 8-spd if you enjoyed it that much.

My negative on it would also be the touch screen, but for other reasons. It's just so archaic to use! I'm young and in to my electronics, but I had trouble finding buttons most the time when navigating the options and inputs.

Also I recall XF doesn't have the alum chassis, the XJ does and that's why they're almost the same weight.

We don't have 8-speeds in the US yet - I'm not even sure if the 2013s will. I know the 8-speed is being used in the diesel XFs only at this point. But you are right, the aluminum chassis is exclusive to the XJ for now.
 

N-Bomb

Member
No one said you didn't work for it or any of that. But that still doesn't change the fact that it's a bad idea unless your income is sufficiently high enough that one of these cars and its upkeep is not a problem. And if you had to wait for a windfall for this to be possible, chances are that it isn't.

Let's change the original question to "What if you had unlimited wealth but you wanted to buy a car costing no more than $110k" then, if you want to be all Dear Abby about it.


forgot all about that concept, it's an amazing nod to old school while going modern, although I have to disagree with you on their contemporary designs, I am in love with current Audi's over the rest of the German lineup.

I like some parts of it, the huge C pillar off the original doesn't translate well.


Aside: The Lexus ct200h is such an odd-looking car. It's like an 80s Buick t-boned some modern design sensibilities.
 

coldfoot

Banned
Hypothetical Auto-GAF time!

Let's say you have $110k or so in the bank due to certain things in your life (a divorce, new job, etc. etc.). Let's say that you have everything in your life satisfied, financially, and you want to treat yourself to a new car.

What would you buy?

Here's what I'm thinking, in no particular order:

Nissan GT-R Black Edition
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (or C63)
BMW M5 (or M3)
Audi RS5

I think those are extremely boring choices for that kind of money. I'd steer clear of any car that has cheaper versions within the reach of the common man, so that only leaves the GT-R in the running. For the GT-R you have to ask yourself if you value performance above everything else, including styling, interior materials and quality, image, not having a prestigious brand, etc. If you don't care about any of that, then the GT-R is your car.

My suggestions would be a Jaguar XFR or XJ Supersport for a 4-door vehicle. For 2-door, I'd pick either Audi R8 or Porsche 911. I'd also keep a Boxster S in the running as they are excellent vehicles. If you're ok with going used, I'd definitely recommend something Italian.
 

GungHo

Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Hypothetical Auto-GAF time!

Let's say you have $110k or so in the bank due to certain things in your life (a divorce, new job, etc. etc.). Let's say that you have everything in your life satisfied, financially, and you want to treat yourself to a new car.

What would you buy?

Here's what I'm thinking, in no particular order:

Nissan GT-R Black Edition
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (or C63)
BMW M5 (or M3)
Audi RS5

Of these? GT-R.

If I'm allowed to pick off-list, I'd get a SVT Raptor to tow around a race-ready AC Cobra.
 

Viperbah

Member
Of these? GT-R.

If I'm allowed to pick off-list, I'd get a SVT Raptor to tow around a race-ready AC Cobra.

Best Answer so far

I would probably go with the Raptor then the 2013 GT500.

Just watched a video of a stock 13 GT500 going at it with a 2013 GTR, GTR won from a dig(obvious) but the GT500 walked it hard from any roll, it was pretty surprising.
 

N-Bomb

Member
Best Answer so far

I would probably go with the Raptor then the 2013 GT500.

Just watched a video of a stock 13 GT500 going at it with a 2013 GTR, GTR won from a dig(obvious) but the GT500 walked it hard from any roll, it was pretty surprising.

I'd have to assume it needs to be a DD, because otherwise my pick would've been a V8 Ariel Atom w/ some add-ons for street use. :)
 

paskowitz

Member
Why My BFF Dany Bahar Deserves $11 Million From Lotus
Stephen Baldwin

Yesterday, my good friend (and only steady employer for the last few years), Dany Bahar, filed suit against Lotus for wrongful termination. He's seeking $10.8 million.

And he deserves way more than that. Way more.

In my eyes, Bahar can do no wrong. He hired me to unveil cars for Lotus, which I originally thought was an exotic Japanese flower. And not only did he get me, he got other uber-celebs like my brother Billy and the Star Guy from Kiss. That instantly elevated Lotus above the garbage brand it was for people that only liked to go on race tracks and enjoy driving.

And together, Bahar and I introduced five new cars at one show. Five new cars that would rebrand Lotus. Five new cars that would make Lotus into Ferrari. Five new cars that got rid of that ridiculous mantra of "simplify and add lightness." By bloating them, he made cars into Baldwins, and nearly a quarter of us are successful, household names.

On a personal note, I had mentioned that Bahar employed me. But he also clothed me with Lotus' impossibly expensive lifestyle clothing and let me play backgammon with him. That was fun.

But most of all, Bahar deserves the money because he made people actually talk about Lotus. He made a small carmaker in England the laughingstock of the car community. I had never heard of them, and now I'm a Bahar-believer. Also, as they say, any PR is good PR.

I figure the exposure Bahar gave Lotus is worth way more than $11 million. Plus, Dany still owes Alec $4 million for showing up to the LA Auto Show. And he better pay him, Alec gets punchy when he's mad.

(If you haven't gathered yet, this is parody. Dany Bahar obviously has no friends anymore. Maybe Swizz Beats — Ed.)

http://jalopnik.com/5938484/why-my-bff-dany-bahar-deserves-11-million-from-lotus?post=52240901
 
Here is a PSA if any of you or people you know were looking to get a Jeep Grand Cherokee:
http://www.teknikensvarld.se/jeepmoosetest-part4/
they should not buy one until they fixed the stability control system to not allow this kind of crap.

Is that a legal requirement in all markets? Also for some vehicles, I'd imagine that's just physics. I'm sure this model can be sorted out as it is supposed to have clever suspension, but for those big vehicles without, what can they do?

Just read a related article on the website, and it's the website's own test?
 

ascii42

Member
Absolutely love it. Could use the chrome door handles from the GT/Sport versions of Mazdas though. Interior is gorgeous. And there's something about the grille detail/strakes I don't like. As ascii says, the CX5 does it better, but these are small complaints.

I hadn't looked at the interior photos, but I agree it's well executed. The two-tone with the white seats and door inserts in particular draws me. I'm a big fan of two tone interiors when they are done well. I don't think I'd get that though, as those white seats would get dirty in about two seconds.
 

coldfoot

Banned
Is that a legal requirement in all markets? Also for some vehicles, I'd imagine that's just physics. I'm sure this model can be sorted out as it is supposed to have clever suspension, but for those big vehicles without, what can they do?

Just read a related article on the website, and it's the website's own test?

Legal requirements or not, the fact is the car isn't safe driven in that manner. That situation can easily come up when you try to avoid something on the road. I wouldn't want to be in such a vehicle regardless of how it complies with the laws.

Fixing it is simple, ESP reprogramming and optionally stiffer suspension.
 

twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
Hypothetical Auto-GAF time!

Let's say you have $110k or so in the bank due to certain things in your life (a divorce, new job, etc. etc.). Let's say that you have everything in your life satisfied, financially, and you want to treat yourself to a new car.

What would you buy?

Here's what I'm thinking, in no particular order:

Nissan GT-R Black Edition
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (or C63)
BMW M5 (or M3)
Audi RS5
Tesla Model S Performance. No doubt. If the future is electric, I want one that isn't a glorified golf cart.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1208_2012_tesla_model_s_test_and_range_verification/
 

ascii42

Member

Speaking of the Miata: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/28/next-mazda-mx-5-miata-to-get-mini-like-levels-of-customization/

The interesting part
The date of arrival is predicted to be 2015, and What Car? says the coming roadster should be around 220 pounds lighter than the current model, weighing in at 2,200 pounds. True, that isn't the 700-pound drop engineers were aiming for, but it's not small beer on such a tiny car. Power is said to come from a 1.3-liter turbocharged four-cylinder good for 200 horsepower which would represent a 33-horsepower bump over the 2012 to propel a lighter, stiffer car.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
The Mazda looks nothing like a Volvo or a Infiniti.

If anything, it's closer to the new 3 Series:

Front/headlights sure, but the profile and proportions are all swoopy and muscular and the 3 series is slab/chub (I like it, I just think the profiles of the Infiniti and Mazda now have a lot of obvious similarities.)
 

spats

Member
Finally saw the GT86 at the Toyota dealership when I went to get my car back - it's a hell of a lot bigger in person than I imagined.
 

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Here is a PSA if any of you or people you know were looking to get a Jeep Grand Cherokee:
jeep-grand-cherokee-fails-moose-test-2012.jpg


http://www.teknikensvarld.se/jeepmoosetest-part4/
they should not buy one until they fixed the stability control system to not allow this kind of crap.

Jeep has performed their own test to dispute this, and came to the conclusion that this test here was incorrectly performed with an overloaded vehicle and in conditions that are absolutely unlikely to occur. But for the sake of it, Jeep performed that exact same test themselves and did not get the car to exhibit that behavior after dozens of attempts. They are still looking into this specific test, but firmly believe it was an isolated incident.
 

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Holy shit.

I give it a few hard pulls until that motor blows. Just because you can make that power a few times doesn't mean a thing when everything explodes shortly after. 370Zs have made 600WHP on stock blocks, but try enjoying that power for more than a month or two - it won't happen.
 

Halvie

Banned
Holy shit.

2800 pounds or whatever. Car is going to be an absolute monster in another 6 months when they have a bit more time with it.


I give it a few hard pulls until that motor blows. Just because you can make that power a few times doesn't mean a thing when everything explodes shortly after. 370Zs have made 600WHP on stock blocks, but try enjoying that power for more than a month or two - it won't happen.

The stock block isn't even really the impressive part. I mean rods / pistons aren't that much. The already having injectors / pumps ~6 months into release is the thing that makes me want to take a fucking sledge hammer to my car.
 

N-Bomb

Member
I give it a few hard pulls until that motor blows. Just because you can make that power a few times doesn't mean a thing when everything explodes shortly after. 370Zs have made 600WHP on stock blocks, but try enjoying that power for more than a month or two - it won't happen.

Oh please, no one NEEDS that kind of horsepower in a street car. This is hardly bragging rights. Maybe it can be reliable at that level, maybe it can't. I do know that if you and me line up our cars at a stoplight and gun it, neither of us will reach 60 before we have to stop at the next red, let alone cars with 50% more hp. :p


Jeep has performed their own test to dispute this, and came to the conclusion that this test here was incorrectly performed with an overloaded vehicle and in conditions that are absolutely unlikely to occur. But for the sake of it, Jeep performed that exact same test themselves and did not get the car to exhibit that behavior after dozens of attempts. They are still looking into this specific test, but firmly believe it was an isolated incident.

Correct. It's a fun bit of testing theatre, and nothing more. Remember the Top Gear Tesla test?

The thing is... do they test them all the same way? Did any vehicles PASS in that obviously overloaded condition?
 

coldfoot

Banned
Jeep has performed their own test to dispute this, and came to the conclusion that this test here was incorrectly performed with an overloaded vehicle and in conditions that are absolutely unlikely to occur. But for the sake of it, Jeep performed that exact same test themselves and did not get the car to exhibit that behavior after dozens of attempts. They are still looking into this specific test, but firmly believe it was an isolated incident.

From the website I linked:
Due to a complete incorrect statement by Chrysler, many people believe that we performed the first moose test with 50 kilos (110 lbs) overload in the Jeep Grand Cherokee. This is not the least bit true. We performed the first moose test with 100 kilos (220 lbs) less than the maximum payload (602 kilos/1 327 lbs) that is registered for the car, a figure which officially comes from Jeep/Chrysler.

And they do show testing other cars in the same way, a Toyota HiLux pickup also fails the test, a VW Touareg has no problems passing it.
 

Halvie

Banned
Oh please, no one NEEDS that kind of horsepower in a street car. This is hardly bragging rights. Maybe it can be reliable at that level, maybe it can't. I do know that if you and me line up our cars at a stoplight and gun it, neither of us will reach 60 before we have to stop at the next red, let alone cars with 50% more hp. :p

Exactly :D highway pulls or 1/4 runs. 0-60 is useless.
says the idiot with fwd ;)
 

coldfoot

Banned
Jeep Grand Cherokee is not the only vehicle that has failed the moose test.

Toyota Hilux failed in 2007
http://www.teknikensvarld.se/2007/10/31/32943/toyota-hilux-ar-livsfarlig/

Here a Citroën Nemo fails (flips) during a German moose test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCmB0UVdx8E

Mercedes-Benz A-class also failed and flipped over in 1997, but MB fixed that problem.

The Citroen flipped due to not having ESP, the same car's FIAT version did not flip because it had ESP. ESP should be able to prevent this from ever happening if programmed properly.
 
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