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The Automotive Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Zyzyxxz
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DW/DWS are good tires.
When are we going to start hearing news on the F30 coupe or the M3/M4?
Need some info
Probably not until late next year.
This is the latest render based on the disguised test mules that have been seen in public.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
When are we going to start hearing news on the F30 coupe or the M3/M4?
Need some info
I believe Autoblog or Car and Driver recently posted more spy shots of the F30 M3. It's at least 60% naked or so, and looks as you'd expect it to look.
I really hope they don't decide to follow Audi with the whole A4/A5 3/4-Series shit. The 3-Series is a legend. Turning the coupe/convertible into the 4-series would be stupid and pointless.
It worked for Audi because they still use a simple nomenclature: A# -- Engine Displacement. BMW is really starting to reach new levels of stupidity with their nomenclature. Especially with the new M Line that's set to replace "is".
For one they should get rid of the "i" since last I checked it stands for fuel-injection which seems incredibly redundant now. Both them and MB need to either start using engine displacements for their names (320 rather than 328) (C180 rather than C250) or just switch to Audi's system.
Aaaand I've gone on a minor rant.
Jesus god. 100/10.
mescalineeyes
Banned
Probably not until late next year.
This is the latest render based on the disguised test mules that have been seen in public.
Sorry Jaguar, this is my next.
nah Jaguar still looks much better imo. This is too much deja-vu.
mescalineeyes
Banned
The Jag looks a helluva lot better, but 4 seats and about 30% cheaper. I am not made of money just yet
Well, they already have the 5/6 series. Granted, the 8 series wasn't a 7 series coupe.
The i basically now serves to distinguish gasoline from diesel, which gets "d".
I agree on the engine thing. Last I checked, the 760i, with its 6L V12, is the only BMW that follows the "convention". The problem is that turbos tend to complicate things. Take the previous 328i and 335i, for example. They both had a 3L I6.
I have DWs on my car, and while I haven't really pushed it yet, they're really confidence inspiring. I'm able to take a 30kmh offramp at 80+ without feeling doomed. My tuner was able to get them for near $100 too, which was nice.
How about from a dig? It'll come down to how good you, the ZR-1, and especially the Shelby driver are. Or 0-60. 0-100? I'm not calling you out, but I love when people try to take a car's advantages away from it. It's like those SRT4 Neon guys that won't race from a dig. They'll always try to race me (or many others as by youtube vids and forum posts prove) on the interstates/highways, any time they're going 60+ already. Ask them to go from a stop, or ever 5mph roll out, they'll back pedal real quick, as them to follow you on a back road, their mom is calling all of a sudden.
But anyways, times they're talking about are "lap times" right? Not drag. And, a ZR-1 costs a bit more than a GT-R. List will go on and on.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
A 2013 Nissan GT-R will hit 0-60 MPH in 2.7 seconds.
It has a top speed of 193 MPH.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The 2008 Dodge Viper SRT-10 will hit 0-60 MPH in 3.7 seconds.
It has a top speed of 200 MPH.
So please, oh please tell me what kind of designer drug you take when you're racing your friend and you pull away from a '13 GT-R at 50 MPH.
Let's not even talk about drag races: the Viper loses. Even the mighty ZR1 which tops out at 205MPH and has a 3.4 second 0-60 time would be hard pressed to put those horses to use at 50 MPH.
Let's also please not talk about actual driving on a racetrack, as your rolling start comparison implies: I hate to use the adage about many American cars, but let's face it: The Viper wasn't exactly built to turn around corners.
I mean, a GT-R (R33) V-Spec lapped the 'Ring faster in 1996 than an '05 Viper. Even if it was a V-Spec, you're telling me that a stock supercar couldn't outperform a nearly decade old car?
It's rare for that to happen, and when it happens it's usually because the car is legendary (F1) or in a completely different class of vehicle.
Mind you, I'm not even a GT-R fanboy. In fact I think they're ugly as sin, but game recognize game so to say, and the GT-R is the greatest car that Japan has ever produced.
Actually that's not such an outlandish claim.
Also why are you giving 0-60 numbers when he said from 50?
Everyone knows the viper has more trouble hooking up off the line than the GT-R, but from 50, it wouldn't shock me if the viper pulled away strongly.
The GT-R is clearly the better car in every other way imaginable, but this particular scenario is probably the one thing the viper can beat it at.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Well his first sentence was basically made up of silly, vague statements like:
He defined all of these with anecdotal evidence in his second sentence with a totally different car, which of course was an incredibly specific scenario. I merely covered the basics (without going OCD about it) by posting top speeds and 0-60 times.
Note that I also removed the drag race video because it wasn't the focus of his claim, and because people complained about the ZR1 driver. Trying to remain fair. I'm also not trying to diminish the ZR1, I just don't think he should dismiss the GT-R so readily.
<3
Will any other cars in its price segment come with LEDs in the foreseeable future?
Sub-3000lb midsize sedan? I'll be damned.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/05/2014-mazda6-first-drive-review/
BrokenEchelon
Banned
The highest trims of the 2013 Accord come with LED DRLs.
I don't think anyone else does. I'm surprised VW didn't throw them into the new Passat what with their access to Audi's technology.
Over 150k subscribers now? Excellent.
bodyboarder
Member
Yeah really great channel.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
That's a hot color.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
It's like if Cinderella's fairy godmother was way into street racing.
(I like it a lot)
(I like it a lot)
Quick question: my cousin and I were discussing the FR-S/BRZ the other day and he was quoting some sales numbers about how the ratio of those sold is something like 3 FR-S:1 BRZ.
Why is everybody getting the FR-S over the BRZ? Is it availability? The "hip" factor (I've always seen Scions as something for young guys)? Pricing?
Why is everybody getting the FR-S over the BRZ? Is it availability? The "hip" factor (I've always seen Scions as something for young guys)? Pricing?
I could be wrong, but I think production numbers for the cars just happen to skew that way. Subaru said they would be making very few BRZs.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
If I am correct, it's 4 FR-S to 1 BRZ being made, as per Subaru. According to the manager over at Subaru HQ in Canada, it's because of the contract they had with Toyota.
In terms of everyone buying FR-S over BRZ; I believe it all of the above i.e. availability and pricing. It's cheaper than BRZ, has a more "meaner" hood (BRZ's hood is more of a "smiling hood". Some people are picky), and the fact that I can go into a dealership and get an FR-S in less than a month, whereas BRZ has a minimum of 4 months wait period (which keeps on increasing with more preorders every day). People who don't buy it from the bigger dealerships have a longer wait period due to the amount each dealership will get (and also due to what package you get i.e. transmission, color, editions).
I'm lucky enough to have Subaru Canada 10 minutes from my home because they are getting the most orders fulfilled in entire Canadian borders, yet it's still not quick enough for my taste. I went for BRZ knowing that I'm getting the complete package for additional $2000, and within the barebone package. FR-S feels too 'naked' to me in terms of additional specs (though it is great for people who love customizing cars) and I hate aftermarket products. I've seen people buy FR-S and upgrade it parts to that of BRZ's, and I've seen people do some crazy shit with it which is amazing on it's own too, considering how limited the cars are.
P.S. BRZ/FR-S owners, I've heard this rambling about 'Check Engine Light' problem that quite a few of people are experiencing within the first 1000 miles, though I've heard that this problem is being rectified in future productions. How serious of an issue this is?
Definitely not going to be sub 3K when it's in the US. It'll get bigger fatter seats and bumpers
Viperbah
Member
We have never run from a dig, he would win on the street. From a roll he will always get a slight jump, then I will slowly pull away. We want to get to the track soon, but I have headers and a PCM going in plus drag radials. I know he plans on keeping it stock. I really don't care which car is faster, but I hate how everyone looks at magazine times and thinks the GTR is gods gift. Lap times are really subjective to A LOT more factors, but the ZR1, Z06, viper, Ford GT etc. hold their own and beat GTRs on certain tracks and vise versa. ( Check out http://www.fastestlaps.com/ ) The potential for a ZR1 or 08+ viper is greater than a GTR's. A GTR will always run more consistent e/ts
I don't know where to begin with you but here goes.....Fastest STOCK ZR1 1/4 mile 10.664@132.92. Fastest STOCK GTR 10.87@125. I can't find the viper's, but it's similar to the ZR1. Please go back to reading motor trend and watching top gear.
The Bookerman
Member
Saw a live LF-A yesterday nearby... first time I saw a LFA in the province of Quebec("Hell it never appeared at Car shows in this province") The Exhaust noise... is orgasmic. Jaw on the floor... If I win the lottery, it's either an LF-A or an aventador.
Did you see it in Laval? I saw it a couple weeks ago and my Lord is the sound amazing.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Yeah. My favorite car is the Boogati VEYRON and it has a million horsepowers and tons of torks brah. I sleep with a copy of Motor Trend and hate the 911 because Clarkson said so.
Anyways, let me just post what you said again:
Your first sentence claims that a quartermile between a ZR1 and a GT-R is "not even close" So we get the hyperbole train going with that one. You then throw in the Ford GT for shits and giggles and never mention it again, so I left it out of this. Unless you were referring to the GT500 that you mention in your second sentence. They're different cars, you know?
You've also now stated that your Viper isn't stock, while his car is stock. You also state in your latest response that GT-Rs do beat the cars you listed on some tracks which seems to clash with your original statement that "A stock GTR is not faster than a ZR1".
Not to mention that this all started based on the 991 CS' 'Ring time. Here's a link to the 2013 GT-R's 'Ring time:
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/2013-nissan-gt-r-laps-nurburgring-in-7-16-ar135274.html
7:16'X. I don't believe a ZR1 has topped that time, 2013 or otherwise.
So maybe I misunderstood your original statement because it was all over the place with various cars and various situations, but just as you don't like people proclaiming that a Deity's hand built the GT-R, I find it equally silly to dismiss the car's incredible performance.
PseudoKirby
Banned
damn a ZR1s top speed is only 130? Ive been that speed in my MR2, on flat ground
Hell I have been 120 in 4th gear
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Are you shopping these two? Do you have a max budget (for options)?
First piece of advice: Test drive both of them yourself, and on the same day. If you don't like the way the car feels then no amount of statistics on paper will solve that issue.
What aspects of the car are your primary concern? (Performance/handling, interior, etc.)
Not sure if you're joking, but he's talking about trap speed at the end of a quarter mile.
Trap speed...
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
The Bookerman
Member
Yup I was on St-Martin Right by the Wendy's.... A black LFA, loud as hell. God!!! I want one.
Z06, zr1, viper to name a few
If we are just talking ring times this is a dumb conversation since that hardly tells the whole story of a car.
I know it happens. I hate on a car getting praised a lot, the 86 for example. I think it's overrated, but I've come to accept that it's probably a fun daily beater, or maybe at a very small and tight autox, and it's incredibly cheap. The GT-R gets it's hype due to it's cost to performance. There's no denying it's performance and capabilities. It also has the factor in which it allows average drivers to exploit it's capabilities easier than cars like you have and mentioned. Also, I'm not sure how it's limited in it's potential compared to the others. It, for the money, is the best ultra-performance, value per dollar, daily-livable car out there. If we were talking track cars, then I'd have to give the nod to the Ariel Atom SC, halving the cost of the GT-R nearly.
The Viper looks interesting, and we'll have to see some numbers from it. It's priced at $98k to start, so it maybe not too far off, outside of the other package that's supposed to be around $120k. The ZR-1 starts at $114k. The Z06 with the 7 ultimate and cf package comes the closest value wise. GT-R is $97k, the "Black" package isn't necessary, outside of the sexy looks of the dry cf wing.
I'd get an EX35 over a G37x AWD...The biggest problem with the G is the dated interior, which the EX35 solves. And it's not a SUV, it's a hatchback.
For a real comparison, the G would be the sportier one of the two. Drive both and you will see. Myself, I'd get neither and get a 3 series, or an A4 if that's too expensive.
The gtr isn't cheap. The maintanence is severe. Honestly I'd take several cars before a gtr as a dd.
Both the z06 and zr1 can be had for 15k under msrp.
PseudoKirby
Banned
No I wasn't joking, just busy at work and reading gaf in between that, it causes mistakes,
I didn't read the whole statement..
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Ever been in an EX? It has no legroom. As bad an Audi TT. My 335 Coupe has a ton more room than that car.
Either way, I vote for the Acura. Better build quality, the Infiniti's interior is cheap and flimsy.
godofcookery
Member
So my father is thinking about getting something more fun now, and has been looking at the ford focus ST and the Mustang v6. Does anyone have experience with reliability with the mustang v6? in addition, how is the focus platforms overall reliability, any personal accounts?
Viperbah
Member
I really don't know what's hard to understand about this. I mentioned the ford GT because of the original argument, that a GTR is faster than anything around it's price range. The gt500 was mentioned because it was there when I raced the GTR.
Where did I dismiss the performance of the GTR? I said its not faster than a ZR1. Then posted the actual 1/4 mile records for both cars...do you think a 10.6 @ 132 is close to 10.9 @125....do you know what those numbers mean ? Have you ever been to an actual track or strip ? A GTR is more consistent...not faster.
My viper was stock when I raced the GTR....I said I have headers and a pcm GOING in.
The viper wasn't meant built to go around corners....so what was it built for?...enlighten me.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
This dumb argument right here is not really representative of the thread in general.
Viperbah
Member
I'm not saying the GTR is limited in potential, it's a car you can push to it's limits and feel comfortable doing it. I am saying the potential for the ZR1 and viper are greater...but the variability of times for the aforementioned cars is also much greater. I have seen people in H/C/I Z06s run 13s. That just wont happen in a GTR unless you forget to push the gas when the light goes green.
I don't want to make it seem like i'm hating on GTRs, I almost bought an 09....and when modding begins, forget about it, GTR's respond well to the most basic stuff.
I don't have any experience with either car other than I was pretty interested in test driving a Focus ST before I decided to go with something used.
The best thing to do is to use some search phrases like yr, car name, reliability or common issues. Also search for forums that are specific to each model and see what you can find there. MSN autos may be helpful too but for more recent years you probably won't be able to find much on reliability ratings.
I have not heard anything bad about recent Focus or Mustang V6s so I wouldn't be too worried. I tend to give perceived reliability nods to non turbocharged vehicles.
If he is interested in something just tell him to drive it. Then you can start doing some heavy research.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Regarding stock: The way I read it I assumed you already had drag radials, and were getting the headers and the PCM. Is changing your tires to drag racing specific tires considered keeping a car stock?
Regarding quartermile times: The best time I've been able to find for the GT-R is 10.87 @ 125MPH~ and that's from the video w/ the ZR1 where the driver missed a shift. There's a shot of the trap time alongside the e/ts at the end of that video as well.
I couldn't find any records for the ZR1. The closest I've been able to find was from 0-60Times which quoted several ZR1 trims in the 11 second range. So I'd love to see where you got the numbers you posted for the ZR1.
Also Inside Line's comparo posted 10.8 @ 125.3 for an '08 Viper So pulling away from a '13 GT-R "pretty easily" seems rather hard if the cars are matched so terribly close.
Regarding the Viper: According to you, it seems designed to drive in straight lines very quickly
, but it was more of a knock on its sheer brashness (hur hur no traction control) and I didn't mean to be so dismissive of it myself, so I apologize for that one. The ACR and GTS-R are of course different stories, as the former has posted fantastic lap times and the latter won its fair share of races.And yes, I've been to a track and a strip before. I tend to read my copy of Motor Trend instead of watching though.
I should've just said "The GT-R can hold its own" and avoided this mess. :\
If only every post in this thread could be filled with as much enlightenment as this one, we would truly be a council of elders.
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