David Incorporated Esq.
Member
How much can you turn off the aids in the GT-R, though? The whole car is practically built around driving aids.
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The Automotive Discussion Thread
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How much can you turn off the aids in the GT-R, though? The whole car is practically built around driving aids.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
All the way until you oversteer and run it into a pole.
Dont worry. they always get the flagship right. Ferrari only fucks up all the OTHER cars.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
They got the F12 down to a fucking teeeeeee.
But I'm not surprised, because the F599 before it was absolutely incredible to look at.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
So apparently Lincoln had a big announcement to announce that they still have no plans to ever make any cars that anyone could possibly be the least bit excited about. All FWD, no V8s, no interesting styling, nothing..
they seem to be convinced that a rebranding and marketing is all they need to make a shit product not be shit anymore..
GG Lincoln Motor Company. God that sounds stupid.
they seem to be convinced that a rebranding and marketing is all they need to make a shit product not be shit anymore..
GG Lincoln Motor Company. God that sounds stupid.
What they need to do is a new Continental. That would be the right time to revive the name "Lincoln Motor Company." Shoot, if they could at least pull that off, they'd have one up on Cadillac in that regard. But at the rate they're going Cadillac will beat them there too. Chrysler at least has the 300, which is a good deal for what you get. What does Lincoln offer to convince people that they should own one over the other two American luxury brands, let alone foreign brands?
Lincoln trying to Mercury they're way out of the industry huh
Maybe, I was thinking a super lux sports sedan built of the mustang platform.
They need something they can point to and say 'you can't get that in a ford'. They have nothing like that now, which is a bad thing then the Ford versions look nicer and can be optioned up to be damn near as nice on the inside.
Cadillac managed to do it with the CTS-V, although they've had trouble extending much of that success to the rest of their range, as least they have something to point to and say 'Chevy and Buick can't do THIS!'.
Lincoln just has a collection of marginally better equipped, massively overpriced fords.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
A friend of mine bought a 2012 Fusion this year after looking at some Lincolns. I asked him why he went with the Ford and he said he just didn't see what the extra money would buy him over getting a Fusion with the upscaled interior.
That's the same comment I've had about Cadillacs and Lexuses, too.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
At least Cadillac has a certain cachet that Lincoln just doesn't.
Edit: And Cadillac puts a little extra into their cars. Can't get a Malibu with rear wheel drive.
Edit: And Cadillac puts a little extra into their cars. Can't get a Malibu with rear wheel drive.
Well, the ATS seems to continue in the CTS's path in terms of being a good offering that isn't based on a lesser brand's car. The XTS is based on the same platform as the Buick Lacrosse, but it's a hell of a lot nicer inside. The exterior isn't that special, but you're not getting that interior in a Chevy or a Buick. For a car that's really just there to fill a space until the real flagship arrives, it's a good effort, especially for GM (much better than I expected from them for a placeholder). And much like the Lexus ES, it's just sort of a car they need to have, because there's a demographic that demands it.
I haven't been in the SRX, so I can't really comment on that. I like the Equinox, but don't really see how it would work as a Cadillac, though it seems to be selling. What Cadillac really needs to do is more to separate the Escalade from its Chevy/GMC siblings. Keeping on the same platform is actually a good thing (beats turning it into a crossover or something). As it stands, the Platinum trim level is the only one worth a damn. Otherwise, just get a GMC Yukon Denali.
If Cadillac can do well with the next Escalade, then all that really remains is the flagship sedan. Those two vehicles are the most important for Cadillac's image. If concepts like the Sixteen and Ciel are anything to go by, Cadillac has the ability to make a good flagship. I mean, big comfortable cars are kind of what they are known for. How hard could it be? They just need to, well, actually release it.
I'm not even really sure where to start with Lincoln. Cadillac at least has GM's bankruptcy as an excuse for why it's taken so long to come out with a flagship. I'm stunned that for as good of a job Ford's done recently with the Ford brand, that they don't seem to have a solid plan for Lincoln.
That's good and bad. Well, good for Cadillac, bad for Chevy. That's the trick with managing three brands. GM seems to sometimes have trouble figuring out positioning, so a lesser brand may suffer for fear of infringing on a higher one. They also have trouble within brands as well, see: Malibu and Impala
Yeah but Cadillac has the CTS-V and Lexus has the LFA, which have no rival in their respective main brands. A flagship car goes a long way toward upping the prestige of a brand even if 90% of the volume is just badge engineered garbage.
Acura is closer to the mark, but even they have the NSX(if the damn thing ever comes out).
Infiniti is probably the closest comparison, but at least they have some interesting stuff going on styling wise. And really, if your ambitions are to compete with infiniti for next to last place as a luxury brand, why are you even bothering?
Yeah I've heard decent things about the ATS(with the better engines anyway), but I heard that the drivetrain in the XTS was shit in a car that large. Nothing they've made is as good as the CTS V in it's respective segment though.
As far as managing the brands, the low end Buicks and the higher end Chevys are where the mess is mostly. Although the high end Chevys is less of a brand overlap and more just the Impala and Malibu being bland garbage.. Also making a small car upscale without a prestige badge is hard as well. If Buick goes through with the new GNX successfully they might have an interesting niche they can carve out though.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
I actually think the Verano is well positioned. It remains to be seen how the Impala is compared to the Lacrosse, but the Impala doesn't get AWD because of the Lacrosse. Missed opportunity to have a Taurus SHO competitor. So basically, because Buick exists, Chevy can't compete properly with Ford in an area.
The trouble with the GNX is it could step on Cadillac's toes, as Cadillac is being positioned as GM's performance luxury brand. Buick is better positioned to be GM's comfort luxury brand, which is why the current Regal, while a perfectly decent car, seems sort of odd in its lineup. The GNX could be a good idea for drumming up support for the brand, they just have to be careful. It may be a better idea to reintroduce the Riviera as the Buick's flagship coupe, as that could be in keeping with rest of the brand.
lol nope
Enzo looks goofy in photos but great in person.
It's possible, though from what I've read, it will be well under Cadillac's current performance offerings, but still give something that someone who enjoys driving can get excited in the brand for. I think every brand needs something like that, even if they aren't performance focused.
With Buick's success in China, I'm not sure it even matters if they can find a niche over here though. As long as they keep upping Buick's quality to maintain it's current prestige status in China, they should do fine.
A little late to the discussion but if I had 100k+ to spend on a car it would be one of the new 991 Porsche 911's without hesitation. I don't think anyone else is making a car that is as good in as many areas as the new 911. There's a very good reason the new 911 won Motor Trend's "Best Driver's Car 2012" and garnered heaps of praise in the process.
In other news I drove a Focus ST this week. I was more impressed than I thought I would be. The car is more refined than you would think at first glance. It's styling says econo box turned boy racer but it doesn't feel that way from behind the wheel. My wife thought it was ugly and I kind of agree with her but the driving experience was smooth, fast and pleasant. And the Sony 10 speaker setup (after some tweaking) sounded pretty good for a factory system. I still wouldn't pay 27 grand for a Focus but I also wouldn't make fun of someone who bought one.
In other news I drove a Focus ST this week. I was more impressed than I thought I would be. The car is more refined than you would think at first glance. It's styling says econo box turned boy racer but it doesn't feel that way from behind the wheel. My wife thought it was ugly and I kind of agree with her but the driving experience was smooth, fast and pleasant. And the Sony 10 speaker setup (after some tweaking) sounded pretty good for a factory system. I still wouldn't pay 27 grand for a Focus but I also wouldn't make fun of someone who bought one.
Re: $100k car you need to step back and decide what you want first.
A BMW M5 and a Porsche 911 both cost around $100k. Yet they're so vastly different.
You need to prioritize luxury, build quality, MPG, looks, performance, comfort, handling, power, maintenance costs, etc are and then look for cars that fit that profile. And then you need to go out and drive them, because chances are you'll throw out a good portion of your list once you've actually had some seat time. Cars that seemed unappealing on paper will feel awesome to drive and vice versa.
~8 years ago I was dead set on getting a Mitsubishi Evo VIII or Subaru WRX STi. I test drove both of them and couldn't really decide which I preferred. Then I stopped by a Nissan dealership on a whim and drove the 350z. Again, it was nice but it didn't click. On my way out I saw a Honda dealership was an S2000 in the showroom. I went in, test drove the S2K, and it was just an instant connection.
A BMW M5 and a Porsche 911 both cost around $100k. Yet they're so vastly different.
You need to prioritize luxury, build quality, MPG, looks, performance, comfort, handling, power, maintenance costs, etc are and then look for cars that fit that profile. And then you need to go out and drive them, because chances are you'll throw out a good portion of your list once you've actually had some seat time. Cars that seemed unappealing on paper will feel awesome to drive and vice versa.
~8 years ago I was dead set on getting a Mitsubishi Evo VIII or Subaru WRX STi. I test drove both of them and couldn't really decide which I preferred. Then I stopped by a Nissan dealership on a whim and drove the 350z. Again, it was nice but it didn't click. On my way out I saw a Honda dealership was an S2000 in the showroom. I went in, test drove the S2K, and it was just an instant connection.
I dunno if i'd want to spend 100k on a base Carrera, and the way Porsche prices options you are looking at more like 120-130k for a Carrera S optioned out the way you want it.. If I was getting a 911 I'd really want the Turbo though... Why I could never be a (new) Porsche owner unless I was a multimillionaire, I'd always want the next one up the line. 
For 100k flat I'd probably get a GTR, but that's just me.
For 100k flat I'd probably get a GTR, but that's just me.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
I dunno if i'd want to spend 100k on a base Carrera, and the way Porsche prices options you are looking at more like 120-130k for a Carrera S optioned out the way you want it.. If I was getting a 911 I'd really want the Turbo though... Why I could never be a (new) Porsche owner unless I was a multimillionaire, I'd always want the next one up the line.
For 100k flat I'd probably get a GTR, but that's just me.
I wish there was a Cayman Turbo.
Did not know the 100k talks were still underway haha. I test drove the GTR today and boy, i feel like Tony Horton on Ab Ripper X, "i hate it, but i love it". First thing of note was that its just a BEAST of a car. Like despite all the computer systems/calculations in place to help you drive, it feels so visceral. The ride really was not smooth though. In fact it was arguably one of the roughest ride's i have had, doubly so for the passenger(t'was my friends 2012 GTR). But its fast, like REALLY fast. You kind of feel like Bruce Wayne in it with its deceiving exterior. The question i ask my self though is whether or not its worth it as a commute car. Oh well, more time to try other cars i suppose
shinshoryuken
Member
Its not a bad commuter car, and can average 20+ mpg....its the best car to troll the freeway.
I wouldn't want "arguably one of the roughest rides" for my commuter car.
First look at the F70.
Computers weigh. All that copper wiring weighs. Sensors, actuators, 75 airbags, active aerodynamics etc etc whatever. Just give me a steering wheel physically attached to the front wheels, brakes actuated by hydraulic pressure, and drive wheels that don't have to ask permission to do something stupid. I don't even need doors.
You know what. I think one day I will have a street-legal Ariel Atom.
In terms of gas mileage i completely agree with you don't get me wrong. I am probably the wrong person to describe the car lol. But yeah i would say that when i drove the car it felt RAW you know? While that is certainly not a bad thing, i am afraid that i may get tired of that RAWNESS if i use it as my primary car.
I don't know man, its like seeing a chick that is super into BDSM. Yeah it is some rough ass shit, but flip that coin and its also some of the best sex you've ever had. The question is can you put up with this jagged gold of a car on a daily basis? Sorry English is not my first language so the metaphors probably sound real stupid haha
Yes, the GTR is good for about 2 hours at a time. The GT3 is also very stiff.
Because racecar.
lol nope
I never understood the beef with the Enzo, it's a very visually striking car.
shinshoryuken
Member
I don't even think its that raw...I've driven plenty of cars that is more raw, I actually think its pretty luxurious. Most cars with race coilovers feel much rougher..
The whole drivers aids thing is way over blown...an idiot can still easily crash the car. Its really hard to explain till you actually driven it.
My NSX with NSX-R suspension felt way rougher.
Giant Robot
Member
I can almost side with N-Bomb on this since the 90's was my favorite era for cars. Although I don't think I can spend up to $40k for an FD, maybe more like $25k tops. With $100-150k I'd rather buy several car from the 90's.
Mercedes 500E
Porsche 993 911 Turbo
FD RX7
BMW E34 M5
BMW E36 M3
Audi RS4
NSX
Supra
GTR
Viper
ZR1
Silvia
etc...
ClassyPenguin
Banned
I like you.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
No idea where you got your info from...
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/04/rwd-lincolns-are-coming-fate-depends-partly-on-mkz-success/
RWD + New Mustang platform?
That sounds like a win to me.
And all existing FWD will be offered with AWD, as well.
So getting a RWD Lincoln depends on the success of a FWD Lincoln? Otherwise they might shut down the brand? For crap's sake Lincoln, just come out with it. It can't hurt.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Damn.
The new Cayman S and the Jag F-Type are basically the same price. Both 2-seaters, with similar performance stats.
Which would you pick and why?
The new Cayman S and the Jag F-Type are basically the same price. Both 2-seaters, with similar performance stats.
Which would you pick and why?
As good as the Cayman looks, the F-Type looks better. However, the Cayman is fuck-light but the F-Type has a V8 option.
Yeah, coin toss.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
F-Type for me. All day errrrday
Dreams-Visions
Member
word. I'm gonna have to get out and test drive that new Cayman. Looks really nice in pictures but I want to see it in person. Am I the only one that thought the Cayman looks better than most 911 and Boxter iterations and has for the last few years?
...and lol at your tags!
I'd buy the argument that the new Cayman does. I don't think the old one does.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
I just got off the phone with a friend of mine. He's selling his boosted Z33 and is looking to get into a R35!
I'm down for he test drive for sure. I don't know if he's going to go with a new or used one (still up in the air). I told him to look in the US for one since there's some deals to be had on 2010 models (low to mid $60's). With the difference in price for a new one, he could mod it sooner then later.
I'm down for he test drive for sure. I don't know if he's going to go with a new or used one (still up in the air). I told him to look in the US for one since there's some deals to be had on 2010 models (low to mid $60's). With the difference in price for a new one, he could mod it sooner then later.
Dreams-Visions
Member
for some reason, only the wider body of the 911 S/Turbo/Targa + rear spoiler did it for me. The base model just didn't look quite right. Now the new 911's are a different story, but prior to the redesign, I really only felt strongly about the wider version. idk. I really like all the redesign 911's though.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Cayman. I've never liked Jags and while the F-Type isn't ugly, I'm probably the only one in this thread who didn't get an erection from seeing it.
This is purely aesthetical though, as I haven't driven either obviously.
Despite the ugly Panamera-esque front end, I'd have to go with the Cayman. If I want a ragtop, I'd still go NB Miata + supercharger.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I'd just save the money and get like...a 2008 Viper and not look like a 50 year old lady?
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Guys, we've been making advancements on WOT. The page is approaching completion.
Keep posted to our FB please. Reilo and I are updating it frequently with news and quotes from reviews I've been writing in preparation.
https://www.facebook.com/WotAuto
Keep posted to our FB please. Reilo and I are updating it frequently with news and quotes from reviews I've been writing in preparation.
https://www.facebook.com/WotAuto
Dreams-Visions
Member
Damn, Cayman drivers in your area are 50 year-old women?
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