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[AlphaSnake]

It's funny that the two reviewers you referenced in your review actually like the twins.

Chris Harris likes the car, which is baffling considering he absolutely detests Miatas, but hey, everyone has an opinion I still love the guy. But Tiff has many gripes with it, and isn't too pleased. I largely have the same gripes as him. I don't hate this car, it's just boring.

I don't like when reviews compare prices of new cars with used cars. True, it's a fair comparison to make, but everyone already knows used cars are a better deal than new ones.

What new cars would be better buys than the FT-86 in that price range? The Miata, and the V6 Camaro and Mustang are about all I can think of being sporty cars in that range. And the Camaro weighs, what, 1000 lbs more?

Well, I wouldn't say used as in...10 years old. I think it has to be relative. Not like I'd suggest a 2002 Aston Martin over this. But certainly some Zs (new and used), later model S2000s, BMW Z4 Ms, and a few others fit the mold.

The first letter on every line of the story/review pages is cut off on my OG iPad.

Sorry, it's not yet optimized for mobile. Did you try pinching and adjusting? Sometimes it does snap into place. As you can see, not everything is finished.

The use of quotes around sports car is obnoxious. Are they reviewing the FR-S or the 370Z?

I generally have a hard time calling anything a sports car, me personally I think of Formula One and Nascar when I think "sports car". Those cars compete in a vehicular sport. Thus the quotes. So yes, it was meant to be a bit obnoxious - it's just a bit far from today's (and people's) perception of a sports car. At least for me it is.

The author mentions their general disdain for hondas because of the stupider owners, but fails to mention the integra type-r, which would be the closest honda comparison to the fr-s. Contrasting the FR-S to an ITR, built by honda as an affordable performance car, would actually make sense.

Written by someone with an axe to grind from the start.

You're looking into that a bit too hard. Hahaha. The Honda Accord thing was just me using a general and easily understood reference. The only reason I went with it is because there's a faded green one around the corner of my house with an ebay exhaust. Otherwise, I have no disdain for Hondas. I love S2000s, and Civics were the cars I learned to drive stick on.

 

[Superman00]

Jeremy’s Car of the Year: Toyota GT86

“I like the GT86 because it’s come barrelling into the bottom end of the marketplace with a big dirty smile on its face and a suggestion in the way it stands that it wants to have fun with your middle parts. It’s a car designed for one thing only: fun.”

 

[Rad Agast]

Chris Harris likes the car, which is baffling considering he absolutely detests Miatas, but hey, everyone has an opinion I still love the guy. But Tiff has many gripes with it, and isn't too pleased. I largely have the same gripes as him. I don't hate this car, it's just boring.

I don't know. I have a feeling he enjoyed it quite a bit ;-p

 

[ascii42]

Well, I wouldn't say used as in...10 years old. I think it has to be relative. Not like I'd suggest a 2002 Aston Martin over this. But certainly some Zs (new and used), later model S2000s, BMW Z4 Ms, and a few others fit the mold.

Right, it's certainly reasonable to compare it to other options available at the price. It just kind of stuck out to me because you said the price was a problem, but only brought up used cars in comparison.It's one thing to suggest used options, it's another thing to suggest that a car is overpriced because of those options. Though I suppose that's the best you can do when the car doesn't truly directly compete with anything on the market today.

Jeremy’s Car of the Year: Toyota GT86

Not too surprising, Jeremy's idea of fun includes the drifting and general jackassery that Alpha mentioned in his review. Jeremy has actually complained in the past about cars having too much grip.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I don't know. I have a feeling he enjoyed it quite a bit ;-p

Hah, he did a piece on EVO where he said the car is poorly geared and underpowered. Among some other stuff.

I genuinely can't wait for the BRZ STi, though.

 

[Rad Agast]

Hah, he did a piece on EVO where he said the car is poorly geared and underpowered. Among some other stuff.

I genuinely can't wait for the BRZ STi, though.

Yeah I remember that review. He wanted 50 more hp or so. I've read and watched pretty much every review on the twins before deciding to buy mine. Couldn't test drive the only BRZ in the country (now there's a second here. Two more in March I believe).

I can't wait till they release an STi version next year. If it's still NA with STi parts I'll probably pick it up and turn it into my little project car. If it comes with a turbo however, I'm not sure (I'm interested in the new Alpha Romeo so will see what that will end being).

 

[Stinkles]

Jeremy’s Car of the Year: Toyota GT86

How is 30k the bottom of the marketplace? At least pay attention to the actual rather than sticker price. Perfectly fine car but fuck that price in the ear. It's as overrated as Chik Fil A and by roughly the same demographic.


Caveat: Very cool car, just fucking wildly overpriced and overhyped.

 

[Rad Agast]

Caveat: Very cool car, just fucking wildly overpriced and overhyped.

I agree on the overhyped part. I've talked to several people over here who thought the car was more than what it actually is.

If you go in knowing what to expect power wise then you'll be pleased. If you were thinking of achieving 0-100 mph in under 5 seconds or the car to behave likea bigger 6 cylinder engine then you're in for a big disappointment.

 

[MisterNoisy]

Well, this is going to ruffle feathers...but here is the full review of the Scion FR-S.

Scion FR-S Review

This site needs to be reformatted into a standard blog until you get some more authors and/or readers, since every article has zero comments and the same byline, which sends the message, 'this is one guy's blog, but he really really loves the look of Inside Line'.

The review reads like, 'this isn't a 370Z or M3, and as a result, I don't like it'. Less comparisons to other cars (particularly cars that carry MSRPs 20% or more above the focus of the article - comparisons to the Miata or Genesis Coupe 2.0T would be more valid) and just discussing the car on it's own merits (or lack thereof) would make the whole thing read a bit better. You may also wish to denote the nature of your test drive experience - were you just test-driving for 10 minutes off the lot, or did you have access to an FR-S for an extended period of time, etc. That said, I do give you points for commenting on the lack of 'difficult' traits that make cars fun to play with, though. It's one of the things I miss about my old succession of shitboxes when I was younger - each of those cars had a personality, and most modern cars simply don't - they 'just work' and all of the character is engineered out.

 

[ascii42]

This site needs to be reformatted into a standard blog on Tumblr until you get some more authors and/or readers, since every article has zero comments and the same byline, which sends the message, 'this is one guy's blog, but he really really loves the look of Inside Line'.

I guess we could all start writing our comments on the site, that would help with that.

 

[N-Bomb]

I generally have a hard time calling anything a sports car, me personally I think of Formula One and Nascar when I think "sports car". Those cars compete in a vehicular sport. Thus the quotes. So yes, it was meant to be a bit obnoxious - it's just a bit far from today's (and people's) perception of a sports car. At least for me it is.

I'm just splitting hairs here, but there's a difference between sport and... profession... or whatever. Dictionary def of 'sport' is "activity engaged in for relaxation and amusement".

So one could say that a sports car is one that is primarily meant for amusement rather than any other use (groceries, hauling kids, commuting). Saying that purpose built race cars are sports cars... well it might be STRICTLY correct, but they're meant for a purpose aside from amusement - they're srsbz.

Now for some constructive criticism - All those articles at the bottom - the layout is poor. The three columns make scanning them difficult, almost like a spreadsheet.

I like the typography, and the layout of the main articles IN GENERAL, but something about the two-column alternating articles bugs me. Can't quite place it.

There's also a couple of lorem ipsum articles visible. I agree about the comments numbers - perhaps you could just remove those altogether. Either until there are numbers to show, or forever. I get the sense on many sites that commentary is just a cesspool in the past while anyway. Maybe more of a push content, less interactive is something to consider.

Lastly, I like the clean presentation of the header images, but something about the one in the F-Type article is far more appealing than the others. Maybe it's that I'm only seeing a bit of the 'entire image', and that kind of teaser is drawing me in.

As to the Toyobaru article itself, I'm gonna pass on that for now without comment.

 

[MisterNoisy]

I generally have a hard time calling anything a sports car, me personally I think of Formula One and Nascar when I think "sports car". Those cars compete in a vehicular sport. Thus the quotes. So yes, it was meant to be a bit obnoxious - it's just a bit far from today's (and people's) perception of a sports car. At least for me it is.

Sports car =/= race car

The purest 'sports car' on sale right now is the Miata. Everything else is another animal.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

We get it Alpha, you love your Z and really, it sounds as like you are always projecting some insecurities about any time of criticism to the Z.

 

[AlphaSnake]

The whole site's a work in progress right now. It literally launched 6 days ago, so there's tons of kinks we're working out. It isn't just me, either. As he mentioned days back, Reilo is on board with this project - he actually developed it. We're tightening it up, but between our actual 70 hour jobs, this is just a hobby for the two of us.

Regarding my 370Z, I'm not projecting any insecurities. Hahaha. You haven't even read my review of my own car. I'm brutally honest about cars, that's just the end of it. I love my car, but like I said, it has a ton of problems of its own. So some of you guys need to lay down the pitchforks, because you haven't even seen what I have to say about Zs.

Same goes for my 2012 Audi A6 review. It'll open up some eyes and make you say "wait...didn't you buy one of these?"

In any case, right now I have lined up press loaner cars from BMW North America (2013 M5, X5M, 335is, and 650i), Jaguar (XF-R), and Volvo (S60-R).

 

[reilo]

The first letter on every line of the story/review pages is cut off on my OG iPad.

Had the same issue on my Galaxt S3 with Jelly Bean. I don't think it's optimized for mobile browsers yet.

It'll be optimized for mobile in due time with a proper responsive layout.

 

[BLAZER]

This is definitely shaping up to be something special. Following the current trend among a lot of super cars with the nose looking like a snake is a strange one.

 

[pootle]

Sad to hear that the Impreza is being withdrawn from sale in the UK.

Its been pretty much dead for a while now but still sad, at least for me and the other few people who are still into scoobys. And evos, I'm not prejudiced

I've had my MY99 turbo for 7 years now, and the community around them is really friendly.

Best lego cars ever too. I had never got into modifying my other cars but the choice is there so you can do anything you want with an old scooby. By the time they get as old as mine there are no 2 the same.

I'm going to go for a wee drive later just to commemorate the occasion. 'Mon the scoobies!

 

[N-Bomb]

Sad to hear that the Impreza is being withdrawn from sale in the UK.

Its been pretty much dead for a while now but still sad, at least for me and the other few people who are still into scoobys. And evos, I'm not prejudiced

I've had my MY99 turbo for 7 years now, and the community around them is really friendly.

Best lego cars ever too. I had never got into modifying my other cars but the choice is there so you can do anything you want with an old scooby. By the time they get as old as mine there are no 2 the same.

I'm going to go for a wee drive later just to commemorate the occasion. 'Mon the scoobies!

Sad news indeed. However, think how much more vibrant the world's car market would be if you guys, Japan, Oz... whoever else... were LHD like the rest of us? I gotta think that the RHD conversion is a major cost getting in the way of some development, marketing, and sales.

(at least you guys got the 22B!

 

[RukusProvider]

If I didn't have a child and had a blatant disregard for all practicality, C7 would be on my list as well

I've been looking at an A4/S4, but thought of potential Audi maintenance costs have kind of turned me away.

The S4 was good in the test drive but very much wanted to under steer. Also the interior is a notch down from 6/7/8 series.

test drive the new 335i?

On the list to do...

 

[pootle]

Sad news indeed. However, think how much more vibrant the world's car market would be if you guys, Japan, Oz... whoever else... were LHD like the rest of us?

But then I would have to learn how to change gears with the wrong hand

And you're right, the 22B was pretty special. I always thought - and vocally complained - that the 22B suspension felt too harsh to be properly useable on the road. Then I put some KW suspension on my car and set it up how I wanted it. Maybe on the firm side but tolerable. Next time I drove a 22B I had to shut up cos I had made my car almost as hard riding! I'm going to sort it out by changing tyres away from Bridgestones. A mate switched to Michelin Pilot Sport 3's on his and the difference in ride is amazing. You would think the suspension had been changed. Handling seems to be just as good, if slightly less feel on initial turn-in. What I'm trying to say, and getting sidetracked badly, is that the amount of stuff you can change with old scoobys is part of the fun. You can get just about anything you would want to change the performance of the car exactly to your taste. Even when you get it wrong its still an adventure.

I suppose people expect cars to be right for them out of the box these days. And 17mpg and the other costs can't help.

 

[sca2511]

When I bought my GTI, the FR-S was a few months away from coming out. Honestly, the hype machine almost made me wait for the FR-S instead. Well, I've had my GTI for a year now and out of curiousty I googled "GTI vs FR-S" and had no idea the dyno data looked like this:

 

[ascii42]

When I bought my GTI, the FR-S was a few months away from coming out. Honestly, the hype machine almost made me wait for the FR-S instead. Well, I've had my GTI for a year now and out of curiousty I googled "GTI vs FR-S" and had no idea the dyno data looked like this:

So, uh, what's the deal with the torque from 3200 rpm to 4600 rpm in the FR-S?

 

[bcl0328]

So, uh, what's the deal with the torque from 3200 rpm to 4600 rpm in the FR-S?

vtec kicked in

 

[Archer]

vtec kicked in

debated on kicking in, decided to at the last moment

 

[rage1973]

Well, this is going to ruffle feathers...but here is the full review of the Scion FR-S.

Scion FR-S Review

That review is laughable at best.
Sounds like something written by a teenage ricer that only cares about quarter mile times.

 

[Halvie]

That review is laughable at best.
Sounds like something written by a teenage ricer that only cares about quarter mile times.

ricers cars are fast?

 

[N-Bomb]

vtec kicked in

Yeh. Can only assume the low cams are REALLY tuned for low end torque and start running out of steam around there. Strange though.

See here on a Celica, the torque starts to dip around 5k. I can imagine it would have been out of breath by 6.5 if it wasn't for that, and even then it's not exactly a torque monster.

On this NSX, it's strange. Looks like the switchover point is 4800, when I think it should be 5800.

 

[OnkelC]

We get it Alpha, you love your Z and really, it sounds as like you are always projecting some insecurities about any time of criticism to the Z.

.

 

[AlphaSnake]

That review is laughable at best.
Sounds like something written by a teenage ricer that only cares about quarter mile times.

Right. Because being bored on a road with chicanes and hairpins is 1/4 mile times? I apologize that I don't like the car, it doesn't fulfill my personal needs or criterias. But that's my opinion and I enjoy sharing it. Some people can see and understand where I'm coming from, others call me a ricer (no idea why...but okay). Don't be mad at me for being honest. There was nothing in my review that is factually incorrect. This is a soft car. It does ride on some lousy tires. It does lack steering feel. It does tend to lean on turns. It is not fast. And the interior isn't up to par. That much can't be refuted.

.

Read a few posts up, please.

 

[AlphaSnake]

So, uh, what's the deal with the torque from 3200 rpm to 4600 rpm in the FR-S?

The horsepower actually has a similar dip too.

Can someone post the actual link to this dyno? I'm curious to see what's the deal. That GTI seems to be making a bit more power than it should.

 

[N-Bomb]

The horsepower actually has a similar dip too.

Can someone post the actual link to this dyno? I'm curious to see what's the deal. That GTI seems to be making a bit more power than it should.

Here ya go, sir:

Via Perrin Performance

Via some dude on Flickr.


Both for stock tune, afaik.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Hah. Yeah found the InsideLine link too.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/04/dyno-tested-2013-scion-fr-s.html

They say it's no fluke. The car was designed for that. Why would they do that? It actually makes me think ECU tunes for this car are going to awaken some of that stored away power. I knew it was odd how I always had to rev this car up to 4500 for it to feel normal. It popped off the line just fine, but then you felt this sluggishness right past 3K RPM and I could not put my finger on it. It reminded me of my old 335i - you could feel right past 5800RPM the power was simply hollow, as the boost pressure considerably decreases past that point. It's almost the same feeling I felt in the FR-S.

It was quite apparent, and I just chalked it up to the motor making early torque and then just dropping it off - which is common on 4-bangers. But this actually shines an all new light on this, it's factory tuned that way.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Anyways, so I have a crazy story. Ironic. Funny. Coincidental. Crazy.

Yesterday I took my mom's Volvo S60 to get the navigation software and CAN-BUS system programmed (it's a brand new car, when we took delivery Volvo's servers were down). Now, this is the same dealership I bought my Jaguar from, and traded in the BMW 335i. I knew they had the 335 on display in their showroom...rightfully so, it was an extremely clean car.

So while I was waiting for the work to be done on the Volvo, I was chit chatting with all of the guys who know me at the place. Haha. It's a 6 story building in Manhattan that has escalators running up and down the whole way. I was on the 2nd floor walking around looking at my phone and I see a family get off the escalator and point to my old 335 and say "there it is!".

My curiosity piqued immediately, it was clear that they were specifically looking for this car and found it listed online. So I was standing nearby, one of the sales reps approaches them, introduces himself, they ask him a few little questions and he says "it's funny actually the original owner of the car is actually in the building right now."

And he points to me.

So I say hello to them. Talk to the mom, to the father, and to the son (the car is for him). After some talking, I offered the mother my phone number - if they buy it, they can feel free to call me with questions. The son is trading in his 2006 STi (tons of work done) for the BMW. Really nice family, smart kid. I'm telling them everything I can about the car, just being honest, that the car was well maintained, etc. The dad takes it for a test drive, comes back and loves it. They go up to 2nd floor after he test drives, they thank me, and the Volvo was ready for me to go home.

The entire time, the mom thought it was some kind of setup with the dealership or that I was in on it. Hahaha. It DID look that way, and I don't blame her for thinking it. Hahaha.

Well, the son texted me just an hour ago, they bought the car yesterday when I left. I told him if he bought it, I'd just give him the OEM wheels and sideskirts to it for free (I was selling them on the BMW forums), but figured the car is going to a good home in upstate NY where it'll be garaged too.

So yeah. I traded my car in for $25,000 and ended up selling my OWN car at the very same dealer. The sales rep hardly got two words in after he handed it over to me. He was like "man...can I buy you a drink or something? That was incredible".

tl:dr - I traded in my 335i to dealership weeks back. Came back to dealer for something unrelated. Saw some folks interested in the car. Started talking to them. Ended up selling my own car while visiting dealer.

 

[N-Bomb]

The son is trading in his 2006 STi (tons of work done) for the BMW. Really nice family, smart kid. I'm telling them everything I can about the car, just being honest, that the car was well maintained, etc. The dad takes it for a test drive, comes back and loves it. They go up to 2nd floor after he test drives, they thank me, and the Volvo was ready for me to go home.

Talk about a downgrade! #rimshot #hereallnight

 

[ascii42]

Hah. Yeah found the InsideLine link too.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/04/dyno-tested-2013-scion-fr-s.html

They say it's no fluke. The car was designed for that. Why would they do that? It actually makes me think ECU tunes for this car are going to awaken some of that stored away power. I knew it was odd how I always had to rev this car up to 4500 for it to feel normal. It popped off the line just fine, but then you felt this sluggishness right past 3K RPM and I could not put my finger on it. It reminded me of my old 335i - you could feel right past 5800RPM the power was simply hollow, as the boost pressure considerably decreases past that point. It's almost the same feeling I felt in the FR-S.

It was quite apparent, and I just chalked it up to the motor making early torque and then just dropping it off - which is common on 4-bangers. But this actually shines an all new light on this, it's factory tuned that way.

That actually makes sense I suppose. The low end torque will be beneficial for day to day driving.

 

[AlphaSnake]

That actually makes sense I suppose. The low end torque will be beneficial for day to day driving.

It doesn't make sense, imo. It's not like it's shifting power to other places, it's a naturally aspirated motor. The torque curve is extremely linear all the way through redline, despite that dip - and it'll stay that way once tuners can figure out the car, so day-to-day driving wouldn't see any deficit. The car would only benefit from it, if anything.

It's most like a fuel and timing change that occurs right there briefly.

 

[Rad Agast]

A GTi can't keep up with a BRZ on long winding roads. Tested this two nights ago since the kid wouldn't leave me be.

Alpha, I'm not sure what your test drive was like but I suggest you give a BRZ with some miles on it another go. It's very stable and quite responsive on turns. Toyota has a slightly softer suspension setup to make the car easier to skid around with.

As to tunes, there are several available already which change the characteristics of the car. Some with nice hp boost on stock or small mods.

 

[AlphaSnake]

BMW M5 E60 vs BMW M5 F10 Drag race video. The old M5 gets slaughtered in that 2nd race. It's not even close. I get so caught up in these videos, I end up watching like 10 at a time.

 

[AlphaSnake]

A GTi can't keep up with a BRZ on long winding roads. Tested this two nights ago since the kid wouldn't leave me be.

Alpha, I'm not sure what your test drive was like but I suggest you give a BRZ with some miles on it another go. It's very stable and quite responsive on turns. Toyota has a slightly softer suspension setup to make the car easier to skid around with.

As to tunes, there are several available already which change the characteristics of the car. Some with nice hp boost on stock or small mods.

Yeah, no chance in hell is a GTi going to keep up with a BRZ. I'm not even sure the Golf-R would.

My test drive of the BRZ was a lot more favorable than the FR-S. The BR-Z is without a doubt better driving - the steering is tighter, the suspension is firmer, and there is far less body roll than the FR-S. On top of that, the interior is leagues prettier to look at. Still, the electric steering and those tires need to be thrown away, and the clutch pedal needs to be firmed up a tad, as well. And of course, I'm still caught up on the power delivery.

Can you post some links to the tunes available for the car? I have friends who bought BRZs and I'd love to test drive them post-tune and with some mods, and write a brief review on that.

 

[Halvie]

BMW M5 E60 vs BMW M5 F10 Drag race video. The old M5 gets slaughtered in that 2nd race. It's not even close. I get so caught up in these videos, I end up watching like 10 at a time.

cue my complaining about how fast cars are getting. this and the new s8. wtf.

 

[bcl0328]

BMW M5 E60 vs BMW M5 F10 Drag race video. The old M5 gets slaughtered in that 2nd race. It's not even close. I get so caught up in these videos, I end up watching like 10 at a time.

awesome how a v8 with turbos beats a v10. BMW is doing that with all their engines, getting rid of 2 cylinders and adding a turbo.

 

[AlphaSnake]

cue my complaining about how fast cars are getting. this and the new s8. wtf.

awesome how a v8 with turbos beats a v10. BMW is doing that with all their engines, getting rid of 2 cylinders and adding a turbo.

It's rather hilarious. 7 years ago we were absolutely ogling over what the M5 and M6 did. Today? It's plebeian somehow.

And they said cars would get slower. Hah!

 

[ascii42]

cue my complaining about how fast cars are getting. this and the new s8. wtf.

When Ford announced the horsepower rating for the new GT500, my reaction was "I give up". It's gotten beyond my realm of comprehension or ability to care.

 

[sca2511]

Really, the GTI wouldn't be able to keep up with the FR-S/BRZ? Genuinely curious. Is it because of the RWD?

 

[ascii42]

Really, the GTI wouldn't be able to keep up with the FR-S/BRZ? Genuinely curious. Is it because of the RWD?

That and it weighs more.

 

[AlphaSnake]

That and it weighs more.

That and the GTi understeers like a motherfucker. Haha

 

[Rad Agast]

That and the GTi understeers like a motherfucker. Haha

Pretty much this more than anything else really. My brother didn't even realize that the kid was trying to catch up.

Alpha, haven't tried it myself but supposedly this is the best option at the moment since the Perrin tune is still in beta.

link on the ft86 forum

 

[Pein]

holy crap, I think something died in my sisters car, it smells like ammonia and rotting asshole. Car hasn't been used in a month and its so terrible.

what do gaf?

 

[AlphaSnake]

Pretty much this more than anything else really. My brother didn't even realize that the kid was trying to catch up.

Alpha, haven't tried it myself but supposedly this is the best option at the moment since the Perrin tune is still in beta.

link on the ft86 forum

Well, color me impressed. The standard tuning looks modest, but the bang for the buck is there (15WHP and 10WTQ for $250 is awesome!). But I started digging around the E85 stuff...these cars don't require an E85 conversion and with a simple flash can run on the stuff.

The result is staggering. Compare the difference in pulls, E85 just goes like a little banshee!

E85
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG5CBG9JjDA

Stage 1 Tune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZQgsPzXksA

The E85 tune makes 200WHP. Very cool stuff.

 

[YuriLowell]

It's rather hilarious. 7 years ago we were absolutely ogling over what the M5 and M6 did. Today? It's plebeian somehow.

And they said cars would get slower. Hah!

Except that all of the oil pumps are seizing on these motors and bmw doesn't know why, and wont admit it.