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The Automotive Discussion Thread

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C

CharlieDigital

Banned
RukusProvider said:
Just a few more week until the reveal. Hopefully they have cars for journalists to test soon.
Click to expand...

If I didn't have a child and had a blatant disregard for all practicality, C7 would be on my list as well :D

I've been looking at an A4/S4, but thought of potential Audi maintenance costs have kind of turned me away.
 
S

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
Liquidus said:
Am I crazy for wanting a supercharged or Turbo Toyota Yaris 2 door hatchback over a FRS?
Click to expand...

Let's see.

FR-S Pros:

- Best bang for the buck. No other car can match it for it's price.
- Great acceleration response. Getting out of traffic or quick maneuvers are easily possible. No longer will you be on an intersection thinking whether your car can make the left turn or not.
- Great driving feel with amazing handling even in winter.
- Great looking car. Cuts/corners are awesome.
- Small features like adjusting headlights and more are awesome,
- Love the look of the dash and the GTR-esque knobs;
- Comfortable ride, though you will feel like you're sitting on the road due to low profile of the car.

FR-S Cons:

- Driving in winter is a bitch as windows auto-roll when doors open, resulting in opening when frozen and getting jammed. When they fail to properly open after a couple of tries, it locks down the window until they warm up. Even then it won't properly open up until you play around with it and hold the button. To counter that, make sure your car is always in the garage.
- Backseat ain't a backseat. If you expect someone to sit in the back, then good luck. I have had people in the back but you'll have to really move your seat.
- Blind spots are atrocious. Even when you turn your head, it's hard seeing the car in your blind spot. You'll have to really get used to it.
- Even though they say it's fuel economy is over average 7.5l/100km, it's more of a 9l/100km.
- For winter, it's best to install 16" tyres. Problem with that is that it lowers the car, and when you park, you will hit the curb if you're not too careful, whereas with OEM tyres you have the leverage of the car coming close to the curb and not scratching the bottom of the bumper.
- Barely room for one suitcase in the trunk.
- Doors don't auto-lock when driving and auto-unlock when stopped.

All in all, if I had to rate FR-S/BRZ, it'll be:

- Looks: 9/10
- Performance: 9/10
- Comfort: 8/10
- Features: 8/10
- Cargo space or Additional Passengers: 5/10
- Seasonal use: 7/10

Overall: 8/10
 
B

bcl0328

Member
shagg_187 said:
Let's see.

FR-S Pros:

- Best bang for the buck. No other car can match it for it's price.
- Great acceleration response. Getting out of traffic or quick maneuvers are easily possible. No longer will you be on an intersection thinking whether your car can make the left turn or not.
- Great driving feel with amazing handling even in winter.
- Great looking car. Cuts/corners are awesome.
- Small features like adjusting headlights and more are awesome,
- Love the look of the dash and the GTR-esque knobs;
- Comfortable ride, though you will feel like you're sitting on the road due to low profile of the car.

FR-S Cons:

- Driving in winter is a bitch as windows auto-roll when doors open, resulting in opening when frozen and getting jammed. When they fail to properly open, it locks down the window until they warm up. Even then it won't properly open up until you play around with it and hold the button.
- Backseat ain't a backseat. If you expect someone to sit in the back, then good luck.
- Blind spots are atrocious. Even when you turn your head, it's hard seeing the car in your blind spot. You'll have to really get used to it.
- Even though they say it's fuel economy is over average 7.5l/100km, it's more of a 9l/100km.
- For winter, it's best to install 16" tyres. Problem with that is that it lowers the car, and when you park, you will hit the curb if you're not too careful, whereas with OEM tyres you have the leverage of the car coming close to the curb and not scratching the bottom of the bumper.
- Barely room for one suitcase in the trunk.
Click to expand...

why the hell do the windows auto-roll down?
 
3

33-Hit-Combo

Member
Liquidus said:
It's not about the money. I drove my gfs 2 door Vitz and loved the way it drives and how convenient it is. Just wished it had 50 more ponies. It's so fun and easy to maneuver it around.
Click to expand...

Have you tried driving the 86/BRZ yet? Also I thought it's supposed to be quite convenient as well despite being a two door. You can fit a full set of track wheels/tyres in the back. Or do you need to ferry non-amputees around? Because it probably isn't good for seating adults.
 
T

TCRS

Banned
BrokenEchelon said:
Official pics of the face-lifted 2014 E-Class:



The more I look at that front/nose the more I hate it. The current version looks so much better.
Click to expand...

omg what is wrong with Mercedes? It's like every two generations they fuck up the E class. The W 124 is a timeless beauty and still one of my most wanted cars, the W 210 after that was a piece of crap with a boring design. The 211 on the other hand was again a beautiful car with a classic design (pre facelift, wasn't a big fan of the facelift).

The current (pre facelift) E class is alright, except the interior which is kind of lame and the LED lights look like those cheap 10 euro LED strips or something. But what's up wit the facelift? Disgusting shit, doesn't look classic or elegant at all.

I don't get Mercedes. It's like they change their design team every three years or something. Some cars are beautiful (SLS, C, M), others outright ugly and vulgar (facelift E, S class).
 
L

Liquidus

Aggressively Stupid
33-Hit-Combo said:
Have you tried driving the 86/BRZ yet? Also I thought it's supposed to be quite convenient as well despite being a two door. You can fit a full set of track wheels/tyres in the back. Or do you need to ferry non-amputees around? Because it probably isn't good for seating adults.
Click to expand...

I haven't gotten a chance to drive one yet as the closest Scion dealer is 400km away. I'm also waiting to see what happens with the rumored STI/Turbo version. The thing is when winter comes I'm fucked. We get pretty fucking heavy snow up here in Sudbury, ON, Canada. I would never want to drive such a car given how much salt and sand is dumped in the winter here. That's what my Civic is for and I don't really care as it's a Civic.

I once saw some moron driving his S2000 in the winter here and I wanted to cry. Not because it was swerving all over the road but because he was driving a gorgeous white one and it was getting covered in salt/sand/grime.
 
S

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
bcl0328 said:
why the hell do the windows auto-roll down?
Click to expand...

I don't know the exact words for it so I'll use weird terminologies but the door doesn't have a framing i.e. the window has no frame on top kinda like convertible cars. When you reach to open the door, the window auto-rolls down a few inches so that it doesn't bang with the car when opening.

Look at the photo below to get an idea:

dJZE5.jpg


That's my weird explanation for it. Unfortunately, if your windows are frozen then enjoy the pain of opening the door with the windows jamming. I read somewhere that there is a way to turn auto-roll off if you bring your car to the dealer i.e. they can reprogram it.

Also, another thing I don't like is the doors don't auto-lock when you start driving. Love that feature in my 2004 Mercedes and all the other current cars, but 2013 BRZ/FR-S don't have that.

Overall, BRZ is amazing car and the best entry car for any enthusiast (sorry Mustang). It's like buying a $300 Epiphone as an entry guitar and knowing you're getting the best bang for the buck; and later making your way up to $2000 Gibson and not losing a beat. It needs a lot of rethinking for future models (and I'm glad that they are).
 
A

ascii42

Member
shagg_187 said:
I don't know the exact words for it so I'll use weird terminologies but the door doesn't have a framing i.e. the window has no frame on top and it does in the car itself. Kinda like convertible cars. When you reach to open the door, the window auto-rolls down a few inches so that it doesn't bang with the car when opening.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, but definitely seems like the result of poor design. There have been plenty of cars since the '60s with frameless windows that don't require that.

Honestly, I think frameless windows are more trouble than they are worth sometimes. I've got them on my Olds, which is interesting, because it's a sedan. There is a rubber strip on the rear windows that the front windows are supposed to sit on the outside of. Sometimes, my front passenger window screws up attempts to go on the inside. Kind of annoying, really, but it is cool having those huge opennings with all the windows rolled down.
 
S

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
ascii42 said:
That makes sense, but definitely seems like the result of poor design. There have been plenty of cars since the '60s with frameless windows that don't require that.

Honestly, I think frameless windows are more trouble than they are worth sometimes. I've got them on my Olds, which is interesting, because it's a sedan. There is a rubber strip on the rear windows that the front windows are supposed to sit on the outside of. Sometimes, my front passenger window screws up attempts to go on the inside. Kind of annoying, really, but it is cool having those huge opennings with all the windows rolled down.
Click to expand...

It reminds me of when we were designing an carplane in our final year for our Aerospace Engineering class. We had such amazing aesthetics for our car and we showed it to our prof and everyone liked it, but when we started modelling it and started going into the science behind making it fly, we realized that it's simply impossible making a car to look like a Lambo and fly like a Sessna. In the end, our car ended up looking like a GMC Van straight from the A-Team. :lol
 
3

33-Hit-Combo

Member
shagg_187 said:
Also, another thing I don't like is the doors don't auto-lock when you start driving. Love that feature in my 2004 Mercedes and all the other current cars, but 2013 BRZ/FR-S don't have that.
Click to expand...

I think that might be a western thing? I've driven quite a few JP cars which don't offer the feature.

Even my cheap as hell hatchback has the auto lock. The only reason I can think that it's not a good idea is an accident.
 
Circle T

Circle T

Member
I always thought the reason that frameless windows rolled down a little when opening was due to the air pressure when closing. By having the window cracked that slight bit, when you close the door, all the air pressure created can escape out the gap. Since there is no frame to stabilize the glass, this reduces stress on the actual window mechanism inside the door. My Z does this, and that is what I always thought was the reason, but who knows.
 
A

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
33-Hit-Combo said:
I think that might be a western thing? I've driven quite a few JP cars which don't offer the feature.

Even my cheap as hell hatchback has the auto lock. The only reason I can think that it's not a good idea is an accident.
Click to expand...

All Nissans and Toyotas have that feature now. My Z has it. Camrys have it. All Lexus' have it. No idea why one Toyota doesn't.
 
D

David Incorporated Esq.

Member
ascii42 said:
That makes sense, but definitely seems like the result of poor design. There have been plenty of cars since the '60s with frameless windows that don't require that.

Honestly, I think frameless windows are more trouble than they are worth sometimes. I've got them on my Olds, which is interesting, because it's a sedan. There is a rubber strip on the rear windows that the front windows are supposed to sit on the outside of. Sometimes, my front passenger window screws up attempts to go on the inside. Kind of annoying, really, but it is cool having those huge opennings with all the windows rolled down.
Click to expand...

This is a thing that the Porsche 996 did as well. I think it's to provide a better seal, or, like Circle T said, to protect the window from the stress of the pressure differential when opening/closing.

It sucks in the winter, though, I had to pry the glass loose from the rubber more than once to get the door open.
 
N

N-Bomb

Member
shagg_187 said:
Let's see.

FR-S Cons:

- Driving in winter is a bitch as windows auto-roll when doors open, resulting in opening when frozen and getting jammed. When they fail to properly open after a couple of tries, it locks down the window until they warm up. Even then it won't properly open up until you play around with it and hold the button. To counter that, make sure your car is always in the garage.
- Backseat ain't a backseat. If you expect someone to sit in the back, then good luck. I have had people in the back but you'll have to really move your seat.
- Blind spots are atrocious. Even when you turn your head, it's hard seeing the car in your blind spot. You'll have to really get used to it.
- Even though they say it's fuel economy is over average 7.5l/100km, it's more of a 9l/100km.
- For winter, it's best to install 16" tyres. Problem with that is that it lowers the car, and when you park, you will hit the curb if you're not too careful, whereas with OEM tyres you have the leverage of the car coming close to the curb and not scratching the bottom of the bumper.
- Barely room for one suitcase in the trunk.
- Doors don't auto-lock when driving and auto-unlock when stopped.

Overall: 8/10
Click to expand...

I can agree with all your cons EXCEPT the backseat and auto lock. Back seat is not an issue for me (I would actually prefer it had no back seat at all), and auto locks do nothing but piss me off in any car I've been in.


Circle T said:
I always thought the reason that frameless windows rolled down a little when opening was due to the air pressure when closing. By having the window cracked that slight bit, when you close the door, all the air pressure created can escape out the gap. Since there is no frame to stabilize the glass, this reduces stress on the actual window mechanism inside the door. My Z does this, and that is what I always thought was the reason, but who knows.
Click to expand...

Isn't it for certain cars where the frameless windows come up farther under the moulding to prevent wind noise, and opening them without lowering a tad would cause the glass the contact the moulding?
 
P

PseudoKirby

Banned
Can someone explain to me why Ford hasn't ever treated the Thunderbird as the Corvette competitor?

They cant expect the rare Ford GT to be that, its in another class.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Dave Inc. said:
I've harped on this before, but here's another great engine note ruined by a lack of a manual gear change. Without the over-rev, the burble of the engine as the rpm drops and the punch of the throttle after you pick up the next gear, it's just so much noise without soul.
Click to expand...

Good news!

Autocar spoke with Adrian Hallmark, Jaguar global brand director, who stated that a true sports car needs a manual gearbox, and it sounds like a three-pedal transmission with "a minimum of six speeds" will make it into the Jaguar lineup soon.

"Sports cars need a manual transmission for sports credibility," Hallmark said.

The report does suggest that a it will be at least a year before the F-Type debuts with a manual
Click to expand...

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/09/jaguar-to-bring-back-manual-transmissions-starting-with-f-type/
 
A

ascii42

Member
PseudoKirby said:
Can someone explain to me why Ford hasn't ever treated the Thunderbird as the Corvette competitor?

They cant expect the rare Ford GT to be that, its in another class.
Click to expand...

Since becoming a 2+2, the Thunderbird was always a different class, a personal luxury car. It competed with things like the Oldsmobile Toronado, Buick Riviera, Monte Carlo, and Grand Prix.
 
N

N-Bomb

Member
My next power upgrade is looking like it'll run me around $4500. Downpipe w/ high flow cat, higher-spec turbo, remap and tune for 93 octane, a couple minor intake tweaks.

I need to stop spending money.
 
C

Chibits12

Banned
^I see what you mean, especially the beak.

I got a list of mods to do next summer as well like a new header, exhaust, koni shocks/struts and springs.
 
F

FStop7

Banned
Fish and birds are streamlined and aerodynamic, car designs are dictated by wind tunnels... it's the eventual end game that we drive around in seagulls on wheels.
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
shagg_187 said:
I don't know the exact words for it so I'll use weird terminologies but the door doesn't have a framing i.e. the window has no frame on top kinda like convertible cars. When you reach to open the door, the window auto-rolls down a few inches so that it doesn't bang with the car when opening.

Look at the photo below to get an idea:

dJZE5.jpg


That's my weird explanation for it. Unfortunately, if your windows are frozen then enjoy the pain of opening the door with the windows jamming. I read somewhere that there is a way to turn auto-roll off if you bring your car to the dealer i.e. they can reprogram it.

Also, another thing I don't like is the doors don't auto-lock when you start driving. Love that feature in my 2004 Mercedes and all the other current cars, but 2013 BRZ/FR-S don't have that.

Overall, BRZ is amazing car and the best entry car for any enthusiast (sorry Mustang). It's like buying a $300 Epiphone as an entry guitar and knowing you're getting the best bang for the buck; and later making your way up to $2000 Gibson and not losing a beat. It needs a lot of rethinking for future models (and I'm glad that they are).
Click to expand...

Mustang does that, I think the 350/370 does as well not sure.
 
R

Rad Agast

Member
It's funny that the two reviewers you referenced in your review actually like the twins.

My first upgrade to my BRZ will probably be the wheels and tyres. I'm thinking of going with the super sports and 18" 8" wheels. Not sure if I'll switch the size yet but will definitely go with the super sports.
 
A

ascii42

Member
I don't like when reviews compare prices of new cars with used cars. True, it's a fair comparison to make, but everyone already knows used cars are a better deal than new ones.

What new cars would be better buys than the FT-86 in that price range? The Miata, and the V6 Camaro and Mustang are about all I can think of being sporty cars in that range. And the Camaro weighs, what, 1000 lbs more?
 
A

ameratsu

Member
AlphaSnake said:
Well, this is going to ruffle feathers...but here is the full review of the Scion FR-S.

Scion FR-S Review
Click to expand...

The use of quotes around sports car is obnoxious. Are they reviewing the FR-S or the 370Z?

The author mentions their general disdain for hondas because of the stupider owners, but fails to mention the integra type-r, which would be the closest honda comparison to the fr-s. Contrasting the FR-S to an ITR, built by honda as an affordable performance car, would actually make sense.

Written by someone with an axe to grind from the start.
 
D

David Incorporated Esq.

Member
ameratsu said:
The use of quotes around sports car is obnoxious. Are they reviewing the FR-S or the 370Z?

The author mentions their general disdain for hondas because of the stupider owners, but fails to mention the integra type-r, which would be the closest honda comparison to the fr-s. Contrasting the FR-S to an ITR, built by honda as an affordable performance car, would actually make sense.

Written by someone with an axe to grind from the start.
Click to expand...

Well, it was written by Alphasnake so it's no surprise, he's had it out for the car forever.

If I'm honest, though, and I say it constructively, the review kind of reads like an extra long forum post instead of a magazine article.
 
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