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The Automotive Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Zyzyxxz
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We don't have this ethanol stuff here. I use 98 octane but I'm not sure if there is a tune for that right now :-/
Edit:
This is silly. Apparently the 98 Ron stuff available here is what's recommended by Subaru anyways.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I wonder if there's a spring assist on the pedal. Some cars have this and it can be surprisingly easy to remove, which will vastly improve pedal strength and feel.
Could be that it's just a really light clutch, though, so who knows.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Yeah, depending on where you live, your octane rating system is likely different than the US'. Our 91 is Europe's 98, I believe. 93 in the US is generally the highest octane.
Has there ever been a car that uses "mid-grade" gasoline? Only use I can think of is if you've got an older car with a carburetor out of whack or something. I suppose it's also better to use it than regular on a car that recommends premium.
Actually, 98 RON (Japan, for example) = 93-94 AKI (North America, (RON+MON)/2 ).
I think I might have seen a couple in the early 90s... there's really no point these days. Either you're looking to save money or have more power, right?
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Modern day engines will see considerable increase in MPG when using premium over regular.
I've tested this myself (thanks Hurricane Sandy!) when all we had was shit gas in NYC for 2 weeks, and my A6 3.0T ran like piss and averaged 4MPG worse than on regular. Same went for my mother in-law's plane jane 2007 Camry (3MPG worse) and my father in law's 2007 Toyota Prius (2MPG worse).
The money saved in cheap fuel is negated with the poorer fuel efficiency. In the case of the Audi, I actually lost something like $10+ by filling up regular (my driving range was 60 miles worse, which equates to about $10 of gasoline).
I've tested this myself (thanks Hurricane Sandy!) when all we had was shit gas in NYC for 2 weeks, and my A6 3.0T ran like piss and averaged 4MPG worse than on regular. Same went for my mother in-law's plane jane 2007 Camry (3MPG worse) and my father in law's 2007 Toyota Prius (2MPG worse).
The money saved in cheap fuel is negated with the poorer fuel efficiency. In the case of the Audi, I actually lost something like $10+ by filling up regular (my driving range was 60 miles worse, which equates to about $10 of gasoline).
If a car is tuned for higher octane, of course things will be worse with a lower grade. But you should always use the lowest octane your engine is tuned for, as higher octane gas is just harder to ignite, and all the extra additives don't necessarily make up for it.
ALSO in some places, regular has ethanol, where premium doesn't have it mixed in. Ethanol gas will always get you worse mileage because ethanol has a lower energy density than gasoline, although it has a higher octane rating.
Yeah, ethanol is a waste. I am fortunate to have a gas station nearby that still sells ethanol free regular. I wish I had discovered it sooner, as ethanol is supposed to be horrible for carburetors.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
In the case of the Camry and Prius, that's just not true.
Camry's I4 and V6 motors are both designed to run regular, but they see an increase in fuel efficiency and power when used with premium.
Another bit of devising on my end. 2012 Ford Fusion rental I had in August in Florida. 4-banger. Picked it up with a full tank of regular. Car drove like shit and the total range driven was 350 miles when the light came on. I filled it up with 93 and after about 30 seconds of driving, you immediately notice the torque and horsepower difference and I stopped complaining about how slow the car was.
7 fairly enjoyable driving days later, 390 miles driven and fuel light came on. 40 mile difference...and I'd have gotten more, but I enjoyed stomping the throttle every now and then because it felt nice to have a bit of normal power.
I can go as far back as my beater 1992 Ford Tempo (car I learned to drive on) and recall similar results. Lousy on regular. Improved on premium.
When my mom got a 2009 Golf, it came filled up with regular. Yet again, poor power and worse MPG. I drove the car up and down the highways to drain the gas, refueled it, and immediately saw a huge difference.
So in the absence of scientific testing, butt dyno sez?
I hope you know I'm not trying to pick on you, and I don't have a beef with you, but the things you say...!
Butt dyno is best dyno.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
How is a 40-60 mile range extension remotely a BUTT DYNO equation to you? Talk about things people say, Jesus. Do you even read? Hell, should I start digging for old Toyota press materials that actually stated two horsepower claims for the Camrys and Corollas, specificially citing 8HP-14HP differences as a cause of regular vs premium gasoline?
What I posted is actually beyond the scope of anecdotal, as my driving habits and roads were the same all throughout and every car consistently averaged a SIGNIFICANT improvement in range and fuel efficiency. They're rather accurate evaluations and observations, actually.
What exactly have you done to prove this wrong? Tell someone on a forum that they're wrong without any basis?
How is a 40-60 mile range extension remotely a BUTT DYNO equation to you? Talk about things people say, Jesus. Do you even read?
That's actually beyond the scope of anecdotal, as my driving habits and roads were the same all throughout and every car consistently averaged a SIGNIFICANT improvement in range and fuel efficiency. They're rather accurate evaluations and observations, actually.
What exactly have you done to prove this wrong? Tell someone on a forum that they're wrong without any basis?
It's the definition of anecdotal.
"my driving habits and roads were the same all throughout"
oh ok. That's settled then. You could have your results published in a journal with controls that good.
10 seconds of googling provided this:
http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtes...ather-mpg-test---regular-vs-premium.html#more
It supports what you claim about premium giving better mileage, and the cost per mile is still actually lower
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Results that can be achieved repeatedly are anecdotal?
I use 87 and get 340 miles.
I use 93 and get 380 miles.
I use 93 and get 380 miles again.
I use 87 and get 340 miles.
That's pretty consistent. I'm not saying every car will react the same way, a 1980s Olds certainly won't. But every experience of mine across a wide array of cars and motors has proven to me time and time again that premium is more efficient and it does add more power.
Edit: Good edit. Add yet another car that benefits from premium, despite being designed to run 87.
I think you are right but it is still not a very big difference and not very many trials. It's possible that you subconsciously drive differently knowing that you have 93 octane in your tank.
I think it's still considered anecdotal evidence because that's not scientific testing. You'd have to eliminate variables and whatnot. Doesn't mean the evidence is worthless, however.
Not really surprising, as it's a turbo motor. I'd even go as far as to guess that it's a marketing decision not to recommend premium, as that would look bad on a car designed for fuel efficiency.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Nah. Like I said, I was actually hooning around driving harder with the 93, so I could've achieved better results.
My Audi, because it's supercharged, I absolutely refused to take the car past 3K RPM. I simply didn't want to risk driving the car hard with shit fuel in it. So in theory I should've averaged significantly better results. Because as soon as I had some 93 in there, it was wide open throttle every chance I could.
Regular triggered the light at 280 miles (pussy footing).
Premium triggered 315 miles (heavy footing).
Of course, this is a force induction motor so the results are not squarely relevant. But still, on 4-bangers the results were virtually the same for me.
More responsive, better MPG.
Premium octane burns slower, regular burns much faster. Thus premium lasts longer, and maximizes power with every spark. Increasing efficiency as a result. That much is pure science.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
What? I've never heard this at all. Premium just resists detonation under higher pressure than regular, I've never heard anything about it burning "slower". Where did you hear this?
If I may make a guess, I think what alpha means by slower burning (high octane fuel) is that it does resist detonation/burning at lower points in the cylinder's cycle. When compared to lower octane fuel where there is a higher chance of detonation/burning occurring at a lower point in the cylinder's cycle.
Anyway, I thought engines have anti knock sensors and they do correct their timings to compensate for those when using lower octane fuel.
Anyway, I thought engines have anti knock sensors and they do correct their timings to compensate for those when using lower octane fuel.
That makes it so that it won't hurt the engine, but the engine still won't run optimally. If it did run just as well, why would they bother with requiring premium in any vehicle?
Yeah it will not run optimally because of the changed combustion timings right? (Pretty much a delay in ignition at every cycle. Is that correct?)
You'd expect a delayed ignition (after correction) would mean better fuel efficiency for the same low octane fuel but since low octane contains less energy then you'd need more of it to achieve the same RPM as the high octane fuel.
By the way. This is correct yes? Higher octane usually means more energy? Or is it only higher resistance to detonation at lower pressure?
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
The only thing about higher octane fuel is that it detonates at higher pressures/temperatures without spark. Regular/Premium have the same energy density.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Stupidity by Nissan™
I can't even deal with how abjectly moronic a group of individuals has to be to come to an agreement that this is a good idea.
I can't even deal with how abjectly moronic a group of individuals has to be to come to an agreement that this is a good idea.
Then why do we hear claims of better/improved efficiency when using higher octane fuel? If both types of gasoline have the same energy content shouldn't the engine produce the same power after correcting the combustion time?
I really hate marketing.
Theoretically? Most likely. But not all gasoline gets burned during combustion. One of the functions of a catalytic converter is to burn unburnt gasoline. The reason why direct injected engines are more efficient than fuel injected engines, and those are more efficient than carbureted engines, is because they do a better job in that regard, because they mix the gasoline with air better, but they'll never be perfect.
Just because an engine has adjusted its timing (which just means gasoline isn't being burned when/where it shouldn't) doesn't mean its going to be able to make the most of the gasoline.
But if both premium and ultra gasoline have the same amount of energy and the only difference is the pressure required for combustion, shouldn't they both release the same amount of energy when ignited at the same point in a cycle?
It's been a while since I've done chemistry but shouldn't the fuel which combust at lower pressure burn faster or is it backwards? (Higher octane burns faster/cleaner at higher pressure?)
If it's the later, then higher octane fuel does produce more energy.
Regarding the Infinity. Don't get why they''re trying to imitate the German cars designations. Am I the only one who prefers the exterior of the regular Nissans over their upper class versions?
It's been a while since I've done chemistry but shouldn't the fuel which combust at lower pressure burn faster or is it backwards? (Higher octane burns faster/cleaner at higher pressure?)
If it's the later, then higher octane fuel does produce more energy.
Regarding the Infinity. Don't get why they''re trying to imitate the German cars designations. Am I the only one who prefers the exterior of the regular Nissans over their upper class versions?
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Stupidity by Nissan
I can't even deal with how abjectly moronic a group of individuals has to be to come to an agreement that this is a good idea.
What in the fucking fuck? Why?
Is this some sort of sick joke?
First of all, G is their most popular car model. You've effectively confused every single owner of the car into thinking them that the Q50 is some sort of high-end car, and because it sounds higher than G37, it must be much more expensive.
It's just stupid. I understand that at one point the Q45 was their bread and butter sedan, but holy shit, this is just an awful idea.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Don't look at an engine as just burning fuel for energy, how much power is developed depends on how all the bits and pieces affect the combustion cycle. I don't know the details well enough off hand to describe it, but look up the otto cycle if you want to spend some time with it. I will say that the amount of power developed is dependent, in part, on the compression ratio, and a higher compression ratio is allowed with higher octane fuels.
As I said before, some places don't mix ethanol into their premium. For instance Shell here: 87 = 10% ethanol, 89 = 5%, 91 'V-Power' = no ethanol. This alone would give higher gas mileage.
Yep, all true. Also if a higher octane gas would allow you to make peak torque closer to cruising RPM, that would help efficiency as well. The only PRACTICAL reasons to use higher octane fuel though (all else equal) is to A) run more timing B) run higher compression (for our purposes, forced induction would count as compression). All of this to get more power out of less displacement.
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
That said, the old nomenclature was stupid & senseless. It's letters & numbers. At least this way the models are named consistently. But I much prefer names. Using letters & numbers is lazy.
Yeah, at least now it should be easier to tell where the models fall in the range, rather than remembering QX/FX/RX whatever. That is the advantage of Audi and BMWs system.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Hey guys what's the difference between the Queen of England and a BMW? With the BMW, the pricks are on the inside! Wait I uh.... how does that joke go again?
Nevermind. I'm pretty sure BMW has given up on the 1 Series, it's just plain ugly.
Nevermind. I'm pretty sure BMW has given up on the 1 Series, it's just plain ugly.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
WOTAuto just picked up our first fleet loaner car. It's a Volvo S60 R-Design.
Power figures are roughly 330HP/360lbs of TQ, turbocharged 3.0L I6.
Power figures are roughly 330HP/360lbs of TQ, turbocharged 3.0L I6.
got damn its not even close
Okay, I kind of laughed when he dove into the truck.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Latest G...er Q renderings:
CharlieDigital
Banned
Infiniti actually beat Lexus to the punch when they facelifted the FX.
MisterNoisy
Member
Another thing to keep in mind is that regardless of octane rating, sometimes you'll get that 'up to 10/15% ethanol' (read: 'EXACTLY 10/15% ethanol') shit that is hell on your mileage, since the ethanol produces a fair bit less power than an equivalent amount of actual gasoline. It also attracts water if the gas sits in the tank for a while, unlike gasoline, which will naturally impact driveability, etc.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Latest G...er Q renderings:
Interesting, it doesn't look photoshopped. Looks like a leak?
Not bad, though.
Damn. He needs to try that in NYC imo.
I dunno, that kinda looks like a cross between a Mazda 3 hatch and a Mini Countryman or something. Not N-Bomb Approved.
Facelift? Or... facepunch?
I like GerQ for the new Infiniti. That's probably the only type of person who will buy them!
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I just came back from another round of hooning about in the Volvo S60 R-Design.
What a great car. It's pretty much the ultimate sleeper. Audi and BMW need to really watch themselves, because if Volvo can nail a car like this and legitimately compete against the S4 and 335is, I absolutely cannot imagine what they'd have in store for the follow-up. The previous S60 R was quick, but nowhere near as quick as this - thanks to copious amounts of torque, 0-60 can be hit in as little as 5.1 seconds. But it's not even the straightline prowess that impressed me the most. I kept looking for more and more curves to toss this thing into.
Spectacular stuff all around. It's not perfect, obviously. But I will provide a full review in due time.
What a great car. It's pretty much the ultimate sleeper. Audi and BMW need to really watch themselves, because if Volvo can nail a car like this and legitimately compete against the S4 and 335is, I absolutely cannot imagine what they'd have in store for the follow-up. The previous S60 R was quick, but nowhere near as quick as this - thanks to copious amounts of torque, 0-60 can be hit in as little as 5.1 seconds. But it's not even the straightline prowess that impressed me the most. I kept looking for more and more curves to toss this thing into.
Spectacular stuff all around. It's not perfect, obviously. But I will provide a full review in due time.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Y'know, when I bought my S40 T5 I was kind of looking for something that was a little nice and a little quirky that could tow another car. I didn't expect to find a very comfortable, solid sedan with ample power and confident handling. This car was bought on a lark but it has impressed me every day, I may even buy another one in a few years (hopefully I'm married or something and can make the wife drive the very nice Volvo while I get back in a 911).
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