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The Automotive Discussion Thread
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CharlieDigital
Banned
If it wasn't for the Flying M, would anyone believe that belonged to a $20k MSRP midsize Japanese sedan?
I passed by both a Kia and an adjacent Mazda dealership today and decided to pull in on a whim.
Sat in the Optima SX then sat in the 2014 Mazda 6.
I thoroughly expected to be blown away by the 6 based on what I've seen online, but I was entirely underwhelmed. Also, I'm only 5'10", but the seating position on the 6 is tight for the driver. I'd have a hard time imagining taller, bigger guys trying to get comfortable in there (though the same can be said for the Optima for taller guys -- you can almost stick your head out of the sunroof). The nose does indeed look great, but I think the car, as a whole, can't beat the Optima.
In SX/L trims, the Optima is surprisingly upscale and I'd say the interior is even better than the 2011 C-class (before they fixed it) and the Infiniti G (which we get sometimes as loaners).
I didn't drive either as I was in a bit of a rush, but based on sitting in the two, the Optima (in SX/L trims) is a better car.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
So much car porn:
http://www.facebook.com/NWAutoSalon/photos_stream
Just go into theater mode and start scrolling.
http://www.facebook.com/NWAutoSalon/photos_stream
Just go into theater mode and start scrolling.
PseudoKirby
Banned
At least the seats are usually comfortable.
I actually generally like the interior of my dad's '84 Olds Toronado. The design actually makes sense and the materials are better than my Riviera. The top of the dash isn't cheap plastic, which is unusual for a GM car from that time. Plus, you've got to love the crotch vent below the steering wheel. My Olds has those too.
Thats exactly what my first cars interior looked like.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I still can't believe the new E63 AMG will be a 4Matic only.
Also, the new features the E-Class has are crazy. The damn thing can drive itself on a highway. :|
http://www.wotauto.com/2013/01/06/mercedes-benz-reveals-revised-e-class-coupe-sedan-wagon/
Also, the new features the E-Class has are crazy. The damn thing can drive itself on a highway. :|
http://www.wotauto.com/2013/01/06/mercedes-benz-reveals-revised-e-class-coupe-sedan-wagon/
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
"Adaptive Highbeam Assist PLUS allows high beam to remain permanently switched on without dazzling traffic by masking out other vehicles in the beams cone of light."
That right there is black magic.
Is this supposed to use the car's battery to split water into hydrogen and oxygen? I remember them testing something like this on Mythbusters. Needless to say, it doesn't create nearly enough hydrogen.
So, in typical Mythbusters fashion, they decided to see what happen if they sprayed hydrogen gas directly in into the carburetor. It worked okay until it backfired spectacularly.
I have an Optima SX, 2011. I think it's a no brainer in this class. The tech, styling, performance, interior and price all work for me. Love it. Straight line it's as fast as my 2004 G35 was and the interior is miles better.
Always room for improvements, I find my seats to be less comfortable than my sister in law's accord for example. The heating and cooling on them could be better too. I'm told Kia changed theseats on the more recent models though so that might be dated. Oh and the Nexxen tires on mine are not great either.
Any car in this class that was clearly better was also multiple thousands more. I did have my eye on the C-class or possibly an A4 but I couldnt justify it.
Went to my first car show today. "Caffeine and Octane" in Alpharetta, GA. Really just a mass gathering of folks and their cars in a couple of large parking lots. A few sponsors sprinkled here and there.
I shined the 370Z up yesterday and took her over.
Wandered around with the missus for a bit. After seeing all the rides and classics, I now wanna' buy an old Datsun 260 and fix it up.
I think the cream of the crop for me was the white/light gray Lamborghini Aventador and this (in the exact same color scheme) ... I loved this car as a kid.
I shined the 370Z up yesterday and took her over.
Wandered around with the missus for a bit. After seeing all the rides and classics, I now wanna' buy an old Datsun 260 and fix it up.
I think the cream of the crop for me was the white/light gray Lamborghini Aventador and this (in the exact same color scheme) ... I loved this car as a kid.
Ace Harding
Member
So my wife and I are starting to think about our first car purchase/lease. Neither of us have owned a car for years (we live in the city, don't need one but are expecting a baby sometime in the next year) and don't have a lot of experience buying cars. I'm hoping some folks here can steer me in the right direction.
Here are our priorities:
* Safety - obviously with a baby this is a big priority. However I think generally most cars built these days would be considered "safe."
* SUV - I don't really like SUV's, but we do need the space and my wife says it must be an SUV.
* Reliability - we want something that isn't going to require a ton of repairs over the next few years.
* Cost - if we buy, I'd like to limit it to the low 20k's (or lower if possible). If we lease, I would like to avoid paying more than $350-ish a month if possible. I also don't want to spend a lot on maintenance/repair, so something European might not be a great option.
* Gas mileage - I know an SUV is not going to get great mileage, but would like to get something as efficient as possible
* Space - we're going to have a kid, so that means carting around a stroller and all the other crap that comes with kids. Plus we might use it to drive up to the mountains for snowboard trips.
* Performance - this is my priority, not hers. But I don't want an underpowered SUV. A little zip would be good.
So I've heard Ford Edge's are supposed to be good, and I think with a lease or used (2011 maybe?) purchase we could afford one. I think they are cool looking too, for what that's worth. What else should I be looking at in that mid-size SUV class and approximate price point?
I'm a little torn on the lease/buy option. I don't want to buy a new car, so that's out. But I do like the idea of driving a new car, and getting a new one in 3 years. On the other hand, buying a good used car would probably make sense financially, and if and when we get a second car ("my" car) I could lease a nicer sedan. So the SUV will be the daily driver family car, which might get a little more wear and tear than the second car (which is a couple years off).
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Here are our priorities:
* Safety - obviously with a baby this is a big priority. However I think generally most cars built these days would be considered "safe."
* SUV - I don't really like SUV's, but we do need the space and my wife says it must be an SUV.
* Reliability - we want something that isn't going to require a ton of repairs over the next few years.
* Cost - if we buy, I'd like to limit it to the low 20k's (or lower if possible). If we lease, I would like to avoid paying more than $350-ish a month if possible. I also don't want to spend a lot on maintenance/repair, so something European might not be a great option.
* Gas mileage - I know an SUV is not going to get great mileage, but would like to get something as efficient as possible
* Space - we're going to have a kid, so that means carting around a stroller and all the other crap that comes with kids. Plus we might use it to drive up to the mountains for snowboard trips.
* Performance - this is my priority, not hers. But I don't want an underpowered SUV. A little zip would be good.
So I've heard Ford Edge's are supposed to be good, and I think with a lease or used (2011 maybe?) purchase we could afford one. I think they are cool looking too, for what that's worth. What else should I be looking at in that mid-size SUV class and approximate price point?
I'm a little torn on the lease/buy option. I don't want to buy a new car, so that's out. But I do like the idea of driving a new car, and getting a new one in 3 years. On the other hand, buying a good used car would probably make sense financially, and if and when we get a second car ("my" car) I could lease a nicer sedan. So the SUV will be the daily driver family car, which might get a little more wear and tear than the second car (which is a couple years off).
Thanks in advance for any advice!
CharlieDigital
Banned
^
- Nissan Rogue
- Mazda CX-5
- Hyundai Tuscon (will surprise you, in a good way)
You would be surprised. My wife drives an FX35 and the trunk space is very limited compared to say an Accord.
- Nissan Rogue
- Mazda CX-5
- Hyundai Tuscon (will surprise you, in a good way)
You would be surprised. My wife drives an FX35 and the trunk space is very limited compared to say an Accord.
Ace Harding
Member
Thanks - I will add these to the list. They seem to be a bit smaller than the Edge (?) which may or may not be a good thing for us. Look to be less expensive also.
What about the Chevy Equinox?
And is the Ford Escape the one that's sort of a cross between a minivan and an SUV? For the crossover stuff, I'm thinking we prefer more "SUV-like" than wagon or minivan-like. If that makes sense...
Also - when you lease, do you typically negotiate? Or do you just pay whatever they quote you? If the former, is it the monthly payment you negotiate, or just the terms?
PoweredBySoy
Banned
I have a 2011 Sportage and the seats are a bit disappointing on mine as well. They looked fine at purchase, but over a year the fabric began to stretch, so now there's a big wavy fold on the drivers seat. Looks cheap.
Overall the plastics are cheap too. Easily scratched and stained.
Still really like the car though.
CharlieDigital
Banned
If you live in a city, this will be an asset.
You still negotiate a price because the lease payments are based off of the price, depreciation, and money factor (aka interest rate). Of those three, you can typically only negotiate the price (though in some cases, dealers have a markup on the money factor that can be negotiated, like BMW). Dealers will always get you to negotiate on the monthly payment and not the price, regardless of whether you lease or buy but you should always negotiate for the pricepoint that you want.
Since these are all crossovers, SUV like vs. wagon like is mostly a visual thing, so that's really up to you.
The Equinox is good. It and its cousin, the GMC Terrain have the useful ability to slide the rear seat forward and back. If you want more SUV-like looks, you could look at the Terrain, but I think the Equinox looks better.
Along with what other people have said, the Kia Sorento might also be worth a look. I think the Equinox is a better vehicle, but the Sorento is a good bit cheaper.
Getting both performance and fuel economy is tricky in this segment. Ford's EcoBoost engines might provide the best compromise.
MaizeRage25
Member
Agree with this. I think my 2013 Fusion has more usable space than my wife's 2012 Nissan Murano.
CharlieDigital
Banned
CRV and Rav4 are the pricier options in this segment (but great vehicles as well).
The Santa Fe is a pretty large vehicle (had one as a rental recently) and starts in the mid-20's (OP wanted low 20's "or lower if possible").
Oh gotcha. The whole SUV vs crossover or SUV=crossover thing really confuses me nowadays so I wasn't sure what he wanted. The Equinox/Terrain twins he mentioned are pricey too. I like the Edge, but following your suggestions and price range he should be looking at the Escape. But after hearing/reading some criticisms about the number of recalls it's had I can't really recommend it.
For the smaller set I would pick the CX5. For slightly larger, Santa Fe or Highlander. If you must get 4wd, you can't get it any cheaper than in a base level Subaru so you also have that option.
For the smaller set I would pick the CX5. For slightly larger, Santa Fe or Highlander. If you must get 4wd, you can't get it any cheaper than in a base level Subaru so you also have that option.
Ace Harding
Member
I was thinking low 20's only if purchasing a 2-3 year old used vehicle. Would expect higher MSRP's for new vehicles if we lease (30ish?).
CharlieDigital
Banned
Ah, OK.
One thing I will say is that you should definitely go in and see these vehicles in person. I can only say that I am continually surprised at how little usable trunk space my wife has in her FX.
Bigger vehicle != more usable trunk space
A lot of it is in the packaging.
Don't skip the Santa Fe or the Tuscon "because it's a Hyundai"; they are pretty good values.
Ace Harding
Member
Yeah, I definitely plan to start taking trips to dealers to check these cars out and do some test drives. Also would want to start talking to people to see what we can really afford in our monthly budget. I need to take into account loan/lease payments, insurance (we currently have none), parking and gas. Cars are expensive!
Shit, if I do all the math:
Lease: $350
Insurance: $120? I dunno. We both have good records (I do anyway, she's had a couple accidents).
Parking: $250 (that is a kick in the pants but necessary unless we find a new place with free parking - rare here in downtown Philly)
Gas: $100? No idea. We won't drive that much.
That's $820 a month. Jimminy Christmas. I mean we could net out approx. $100/month we pay now for cabs, public transportation, the occasional gas when we borrow a car. But still - that's a lot of money! And even if we did have a car its not like we'd never take cabs or public transit when we are in the city.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Gets expensive, fast. Is $250 parking per month or year?
Better option might be ZipCar.
Ace Harding
Member
$250 is per month. Yeah it sucks.
We definitely don't want to do ZipCar. Yeah it would save money, but the whole point of this is to be able to drive wherever whenever with the kid. With a reservation-based carshare program, you need to reserve ahead, walk to a pod, watch your time, etc. It doesn't sound like a lot but with a baby and stuff it just adds up to a hassle. It also gets very expensive if you use it a lot. I imagine we will be driving 3-4 times a week, possibly daily if we use a daycare that's not walkable (when that time comes).
We can swing the cost, its just a real kick in the pants when we've been able to avoid it for so long (and save a bunch of money). Makes saving for an eventual house downpayment a lot harder. I imagine the baby will cost some money also... shit.
MiniBossBattle
Member
Gonna try out the new CX-9 and Pilot. Not sure why the Mazda would be more expensive than the Honda.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Mazda CX-5 or Ford Escape.
I know it's not an SUV, but the Honda Fit has a stupid good amount of space for its class.
Ace Harding
Member
I just realized the Philly Auto Show is in less than two weeks - that'll be a good opportunity to check out a bunch of these in person.
They'll also have a "Ride and Drive" event with a bunch of vehicles, including the RAV4, Chevy Equinox, Hyundai Tucson and Santa Fe, and a bunch of Subaru models (hm maybe I want an Impreza...)
Plus the high-end stuff to check out - they'll have a 2013 McLaren 12c Spider which looks pretty damn sweet.
They'll also have a "Ride and Drive" event with a bunch of vehicles, including the RAV4, Chevy Equinox, Hyundai Tucson and Santa Fe, and a bunch of Subaru models (hm maybe I want an Impreza...)
Plus the high-end stuff to check out - they'll have a 2013 McLaren 12c Spider which looks pretty damn sweet.
Yeah. That'll be perfect. You'll be able to easily compare them.
They've done a Ride and Drive thing at the Atlanta Auto Show for a few years now. It's nice to be able to test drive cars without the salesman pressure. The first year I went I drove every car, because why not?
The first year I went it was pretty much just Chevy/Buick/GMC. The next year Cadillac came, and brought the CTS-V and everything (I suggest taking the CTS-V Wagon for a spin). Toyota showed up too, but just brought a bunch of hybrids. Last year, Chrysler showed up and brought a Charger R/T and a 300 SRT.
Ace Harding
Member
Cool. Yeah they've got Cadillac, Chevy/Buick/GMC, Hyundai, Kia, and Subaru. Plus "Indoor Ride Events" with Toyota and Jeep.
I will check out the Caddies. I'm not sure how the driving will be since this is at the Convention Center downtown in the middle of awful traffic. I'm assuming you'd just ride around the block or something.
MisterNoisy
Member
I'd wager they just have a chunk of a parking lot roped off or other closed space. The notion of an 'indoor ride' in a Jeep is comical - I'd wanna see how well the Wrangler tackles staircases.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Drove a Fusion rental car this past weekend.
That's a damn fine car for that segment. If I was looking for a car in that price range, I'd definitely recommend it. It's reputation precedes it.
That's a damn fine car for that segment. If I was looking for a car in that price range, I'd definitely recommend it. It's reputation precedes it.
In Atlanta you just kind of drive around a few blocks around the center, probably like 5-10 minutes. Fortunately there are a couple smaller empty roads they lead you down where you can open it up a little bit, not sure if there's anything like that where it is in Philly. Mostly though, you'll get a good experience of what the vehicles will actually be like to live with. The main thing I kind of miss is taking it onto the highway. I always like to see how cars are on the interstate, how they ride, how noisy they are, etc.
I'd wager they just have a chunk of a parking lot roped off or other closed space. The notion of an 'indoor ride' in a Jeep is comical - I'd wanna see how well the Wrangler tackles staircases.
The website says: For 2013, Jeep adds a Ride Event to the main floor! Choose a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, Wrangler Rubicon or Grand Cherokee and take a ride through an obstacle course designed to showcase Jeep’s 4×4 capability!
Sounds interesting
MisterNoisy
Member
We have them as fleet cars - they're quite nice and definitely lookers, though the 'OMG it's an Aston sedan' stuff is way overblown. They also seem to have more room inside than the 2012 Taurus we've got in the fleet, which is odd as hell given how big the Taurus is.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Hey guys, what's going on here?
Darth Pinche
Member
Are you trying to tell us you have Bi-Polar Manic Depression? Gotta love those banner ads.
We have a new fusion titanium in our parking lot, and while it's not a bad looking car, those titanium wheels are ugly as fuck. Also the car isn't that impressive looking, and the style gap between it and the accord is almost nonexistant for me. I really like how they made the new Accord.
Cow Mengde
Banned
I don't like the Fusion's center console stack. I was just inside of one earlier today. It's just a cluster of buttons and looks very ugly. The SEL and SE buttons look better.
I've been seeing quite a few (Fusions) lately and the car is hideous. Stretched fish faces. The last Gen Accord coupe is nicer IMO.
Dreams-Visions
Member
that thar is a fine Cobra. not the color combo I'd want.
I assume you're talking about the Fusion?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puhX7b2BB7A
plugging this segment of drive. it features a turbo'd fr-s built by buddies i used to autox with.
plugging this segment of drive. it features a turbo'd fr-s built by buddies i used to autox with.
Sorry, yes.
I much prefer the one I own, which is the previous gen Fusion with the waterfall grille. So nice with the angular bodylines and swept back headlights.
I drove the last gen Fusion for many months and I was pleasantly surprised by it in everyway. We hammered that car and it took it while looking great.
MaizeRage25
Member
All the wheels available on the 2013 Fusion are terrible except for the 19" that you can get on the Titanium. One of the main reasons I went with the Titanium -- also the 2.0L engine that doesn't catch on fire (knock on wood).
Styling preferences aside, if you think the new Accord is as good looking as the new Fusion then you might want to get your eyes checked out.
Viperbah
Member
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