David Incorporated Esq.
Member
J-rzez I'm sorry man but you're just wrong. There's room for interpretation but you're way off target.
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The Automotive Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Zyzyxxz
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Let me ask you something. Would the FC RX-7, the Mk III Supra, or the 1st generation 300ZX be sports cars, in your opinion? What about the BMW Z4, or a C3 Corvette?
I know you mentioned the MkIV Supra and the 300ZX in general, but I'm curious. The Toyobaru is on par with those cars, in general.
If everyone agreed with everyone else in life, earth would be a boring place.
Unless they all agreed with me, in which case earth would be a happy place.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
If everyone agreed with everyone else in life, earth would be a boring place.
There's also these things called generally agreed upon definitions.
Or is this an Apple?
"For their time" has to be taken into consideration. As time rolls on, the bar gets raised. Those cars were real "sports cars" for their days, and now are "classic sports cars". The new 86 is on par with those cars, but those are classic sports cars. The "sports car" bar has been raised in time and each generation, and the 86, "IMHO", does not meet the bar and it's lack of power to balance out it's performance in this day and age puts it firmly as a "sporty car", for now. Not to say you couldn't have fun in the new 86, but you can have fun in many cars.
There's also these things called generally agreed upon definitions.
Or is this an Apple?
There is no real "generally agreed upon definition" for a sports car though due to opinion and variety. If you want to go that route, comparing the performance of a new Vette/911/GT-R to a 86 is apples to oranges. Another example of variable is that an Ariel Atom will humiliate "sports cars" of it's same price or much higher, but it's not a "sports car" really. It's different. Too many variables.
Circle T
Member
Which, judging by this thread alone, I think we can clearly say are non-existent in the automotive world.
Too much of this arguing comes down to everyone wanting to cement their own, legitimate, personal definition onto certain cars and other various items, that everyone else in turn has to agree with. Is my 350Z a sports car, a sports coupe, a super car? I don't care one bit what someone else thinks it's "classed" as, so long as I enjoy driving it. I call it a sports car, but I'm not going to cry if someone else thinks it isn't. Someone else's opinion of my car, or any other car, has little to no effect on my emotion toward said car. The words that define the class of a vehicle have 0 (zero) connection to the mechanicals that make up that car.
So, are the 86 and Miata sports cars? Who the hell cares? They are 2 fun, relatively inexpensive, great handling, rear-drive cars. We, as automotive enthusiasts, should just be happy they're around, and not some other FWD, diesel, hybrids in their place.
Why is the bar raised? Won't a given amount of horsepower in a car of a certain size with a proper chassis give you the same thrill today as yesteryear?
One might even say that with all the computerelectrical gizwizardry in modern cars, that you're less connected and involved than in those older cars. Maybe the bar is actually lower these days, and that's why everyone loves the Toyobaru so much.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Can we just give up and call shit whatever we feel like then?
The bar gets raised in time due to getting used to what's around you. Just like how other technologies progress, so do cars themselves. 56k was awesome when surrounded by 28k, but now a days it's just a novelty to think back of then how fast it was. Loosely speaking of course. You can go back and drive those old machines and nostalgia kicks in and you'll have some fun is the difference, but one has to accept that times have changed, the bar being raised will have that impact on many people.
I agree with the tech thing, and that's why i never went for an Evo X. That's also why I still like muscle cars like the Boss. And why I'm toying with biting the bullet and getting an Ariel Atom, as that to me is one of the purest experiences you can have. I probably will go down to VIR to one of their experience events. But, 7sec from a car today in 2013 when that was common in 2000 is very disappointing. And knowing that the chassis of the 86 is so so good but held back due to the powerplant and them putting eco-green tires on to allow shenanigans is very disappointing. Especially when I was hoping for at least turbo, but more so the return of the GT-Four/All-Trac. That's just me.
To get these personal vibes out of here and to not escalate this further, let me rephrase "stupid" with "condescending" or "derogatory".
First of all, I value and respect you as a NeoGAF regular and always interesting/fun to read poster, same goes for AlphaSnake of course.
Over the last couple months, by the it has become quite clear that you, as well as several other posters in here, do not like the FRS/BRZ. That's completely fine by me, I do not share all of your posted opinions expressed in here as well.
But the following comment
crossed the said line (IMHO). Hence my post.
Your following ones
weren't the most polite ones, either, and came across rather insulting on a personal level.
As I got it, this thread is about car porn and luxury / superfluous car items in general, so let's debate about cars, performance and trims and not about hurt feelings, personalities of their drivers or other personal stuff, shall we?
I take the "cute" back as well.
Back to topic:
As the FR-S/BRZ generates a lot of polarizing opinions, Toyota/Subaru have achieved one thing that has gotten rare in the "affordable" section of the market: Emotionality. The other end of the spectrum would be something like a baseline Golf or something like that which doesn't really stir up feelings of any kind.
As for the Sound Changers, it's a rather ridiculous piece of acoustic tuning for the cabin, sure. There are a few youtube vids about them, anybody interested might check them out. But, hey, I wanted to try them out, so the 25EUR price tag and 5-10 minute swap time without tools are nothing to write home about.
Also, overnight parts from Japan are generally fun
I always appreciate a parcel from Japan, be it watches, Blu-Rays or, now, car parts. Next purchase for the car is already planned, also TRD, so overpriced and superfluous it will be As for the sports car discussion:
http://youtu.be/fGqJdsdcfis
You're reading into something that isn't there.
Haha, jesus dude. It was a joke. Holy goodness. It was a comment about people constantly talking about being able to drift their FRS/BRZs at low-speeds, aka having "fun". If you do that with any car, then you're being stupid.
None of that was even directed at you. You really need to quit taking shit personally, because none of it was. Not even remotely.
The only reason I made fun of your Sound Changer (and btw, others have, too) is because you called me out by name.
Assault vehicles WHAAAAT?
http://www.policymic.com/mobile/art...would-ban-ferraris-and-other-assault-vehicles
http://www.policymic.com/mobile/art...would-ban-ferraris-and-other-assault-vehicles
This isn't real is it?
Victory Red
Member
I have a 2010 Acura TSX lease that is ending in July and I get an email today from my dealership that they are in need of new cars and have really good deals now for turning in leases early.
I was really looking forward to waiting till July and getting in a 2014 TSX (Hasn't been announced yet, but they are due for a body redesign.)
I call the dealership and they said they think the TSX is going to be discontinued now that the ILX is here. Ughh. I don't like the ILX, its too small.
I'm going to talk to them Monday and maybe see if I can get a steal on a new TL but I dunno. I was really looking forward to a new TSX. I LOVE mine. But I refuse to lease the same exact car again.
I was really looking forward to waiting till July and getting in a 2014 TSX (Hasn't been announced yet, but they are due for a body redesign.)
I call the dealership and they said they think the TSX is going to be discontinued now that the ILX is here. Ughh. I don't like the ILX, its too small.
I'm going to talk to them Monday and maybe see if I can get a steal on a new TL but I dunno. I was really looking forward to a new TSX. I LOVE mine. But I refuse to lease the same exact car again.
Circle T
Member
I guess I just figured when the ILX was announced, it was going to replace the TSX. I mean, the ILX is a decent bit smaller than the TSX, but I don't think it's so small that it would warrant having both cars in the lineup. I could be wrong, but the TSX probably will go away.
Victory Red
Member
Seeing that the ILX starts at $25K, I figured it would sit in a class a little cheaper than TSX, cause with V6 and Tech Package the TSX gets close to $40K
So now it's just ILX: ($25K), TL ($35K), RLX ($55K, approx.)
Maybe they will re-introduce a civic competitor, like the RSX was.
Would you consider a new Honda Accord V6 loaded? Roughly same MSRP, if not cheaper, and some sweet lease deals right now. Get it for two years, then revisit Acura. Guaranteed that Honda would respect your Acura loyalty with additional incentives.
I thought for sure I was reading an onion article. There is no way this goes anywhere. And if hell freezes over and it does, the blow back would be enormous.
Victory Red
Member
I thought about it. I really do not like the Accord Sedan, so it would have to be coupe. And I actually really like the new accord coupe. Its definitely an option to save some money. Acuras just pack so much style and features in their price. My $32K TSX had tons of shit in it that are upgrades for BMWs and Mercedes.
Also, when I was talking to the Acura guy on the phone today, he was saying that they are doing $3K cash back on new TLs to use as a down payment, and they'll roll my unused miles into new lease. I have 16,000 miles left to use until July 1st. So I can roll them into new TL lease and instead of getting 12K miles a year I can do 10K and pay even less.
I'm not walking out of there with a car Monday unless I get a ridiculous deal. I'm not in love with getting a TL (i think its a little big for me) so I'm only getting it if its a steal. Like robbery.
If not, I'll wait till July and see what else is out there, maybe get an Accord fully loaded or ILX fully loaded.
Circle T
Member
Well, going by past history, the Accord is always updated, and then its cousin, the TL, is updated the following year. Since we just got a new Accord for 2013, it would make sense that a new TL (TLX?) will be coming for 2014. That should work in your favor, as far as getting a deal on a 2013 TL. Sounds like they have some good incentives going on. Combine that with an outgoing model, and a good deal seems very likely.
Like you said, though, a loaded Accord or ILX would be nice as well. I've seen a few ILX recently, and they are much better looking in the metal than they seem in pictures. And, unless you really need decent capacity, they aren't too small to the point of unusable. The nice thing is, you have quite a few options available, any of which will make for a nice car.
Victory Red
Member
But we just got a new TL for 2012. Two year cycle seams kind of short.
Circle T
Member
No, we got a hastily refreshed version in 2012 to try and get some sales back. The 4th Gen originally launched in 2009. We're right on schedule for a new one later this year.
Victory Red
Member
Yeah you're right. Same body/interior from 2009.
Thats a deal-breaker for me. I'm not spending all this money to get a car that is essentially 4 years old and they go and release a brand new lineup next year and I'm pissed.
So I'll go in there Monday and talk to them and see what kind of penalties (if any) they are going to charge me if I get the TL now and next year if they come out with a new one I want to trade this one in early.
Circle T
Member
Yea, it's a double-edged sword situation, for sure.
On the one hand, getting a car at the end of its generation cycle means you end up with the "old one" in a very short amount of time. That can be frustrating. On the other hand, however, you do end up with the "best" version of the car. Buying a car when it's brand new, while nice, does leave you open to all sorts of potential problems that don't arrise until thousands of people have them, and start to get noticed. At the end of a generation cycle, with 4-5 years of production completed, Honda/Acura will have worked out most all of the bugs/quirks/annoyances from the car, and you will have a very nice car for years to come.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
RUF has a new website up. Warning: it runs slow for me, your mileage may vary.
http://www.ruf-automobile.de/
http://www.ruf-automobile.de/
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Guys I've grown a little tired of the Volvo S40 T5 and want a different. Anyone have suggestions for grand tourers in the 20-40k range? Of course I'm talking used cars, not new. Unfortunately the only cars that really come to mind are BMW 6 series, what else should I be looking at?
Edit: Oh god damnit last post on the page.
Edit: Oh god damnit last post on the page.
thats why id go back to the accord for a 2 year lease, then return to acura once the new tlx is out.
fwiw, i had an 07 tl-s and loved it with the exception that it was a rattle trap. i traded it in last fall for a '10 zdx. best car i've ever owned, even better than the audis.
i like the tsx, especially in estate form and with a tech package. we don't get it up here, unfortunately.
Depends on what balance of grand and tourer that you want. You could take sport over comfort with a CTS-V or a G8 GT or you could go for more comfort with like you said a 6 series (are they cheap enough?) or an Audi. Personally I like the A8's, very comfortable cars.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I think I'm leaning more towards a comfortable suspension but with a good chassis. I was thinking about an M6, which are now sub-40k for a 2007-2008 model but wasn't sure I want to take on the responsibility of caring for a M-series V10. Then again, 500 hp.
I'll have to test drive a CTS-V, and how was the interior on the G8?
If interior is a concern, might as well wait for the Chevy SS, if indeed the G8 is something that interests you.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Well really I'm not all that interested in another sedan. I'd do a 2+2 but that's about it. Also no manual means no thank you.
Right, forgot that the SS only comes in automatic.
This thread tends to be on extremes - car porn and supercars on the high end, people asking about boring A-B famlikars on the low end. Gotta try and change that, bring in more of the fun middle-end car talk.
Cars like the Miata and Toyobaru are fantastic, and people shouldn't be afraid to bring up or talk about that type of car. Mustangs, Civics, whatever. It's not just about how fast a test driver took it around the 'ring, or what kind of dead animal swathes the seating.
I guess my point is, I'm sure there's more to Autogaf than Aventadors and Accords, and I'm hoping that it's reflected here at some point!
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
Saw my second Tesla Model S in the wild today in Leesburg, VA. Black. This car is gorgeous. Looks even better in person than in pics. It's surprisingly low & wide, very aggressive looking.
Does Maserati have anything that has depreciated to that level yet? I would love a GranTurismo personally.
Audi S5, or is that too small for you?
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Unfortunately the only ones are of the old body style that I don't much care for (like, at all).
I'll look into it, but I've had an aversion to Audis since the reliability issues in the mid early 2000s. I haven't really considered much from them since. I prefer RWD only, too, but at least I can find a manual S5 in my price range.
Used XK maybe? Or are those autos only?
You can get a 09/10 S5 with your budget and it'll definitely be no less reliable and no more expensive to maintain than an M6,
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Man...a BRZ-FRZ argument and I wasn't involved?
I've gotten old and slow.
I've gotten old and slow.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Not exactly a glowing commendation, hahaha. What puts me off about the M6 is the maintenance, anyone have maintenance/DIY repair experience with late model Audis?
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
It's okay, you drive the appropriate cars for that.
But neither of my cars are old OR slow.
Joke flop
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
As far as mechanicals, those will almost never fail you. The motor is rock solid, just make sure the spark plugs are changed at 50K and then the coils shortly after that. Oil changes, ignore Audi's bullshit 10K intervals - do them every 3-5K miles.
Electrical issues such as MMI failures are common, and depending on what exactly failed, it can cost between $1000-$3000 to fix out of warranty including labor.
If you get an automatic, do fluid change after 60K miles. Audi will tell you "oh but it's a sealed unit". Bullshit. Friction will turn the fluid dark and gritty overtime, preventing the transmission from operating normally - this happened to my last A6 4.2L (same motor and trans as S5) and I sold it for that reason. ZF specifically states maintenance for the transmission should include fluid change at 60K miles, so ignore Audi when they tell you it doesn't.
I do believe the S5 does have suspension bits that need to be addressed occasionally too.
All in all, I've thought long and hard about the S5, M3, and even about buying my brother's 2006 M6. I wouldn't want to own any of them because they're all finicky and annoyingly weak cars that can't take a beating without breaking down.
I don't know of ONE person who hasn't trouble with the above cars over the stupidest shit, whether they baby the car or not.
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