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The Automotive Discussion Thread
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Giant Robot
Member
BoobPhysics101
Banned
New AP2 bumper will be finished tomorrow! Will be painted in morning and finished drying in the afternoon. Really excited. Also replaced my lower ball joint today... holy shit it was messed up.
Help.
I'm in the market for a 2011 Subaru WRX Limited. It is my dream car. I've looked in the price range and I cannot find anything I want more. I love the look and the speed and power is just *perfect* for me.
Oh, wait, I'm 38 with a wife and kid, let's not forget that.
Ok, so this is apparently my need to fill my mid life crisis. This weekend I had the opportunity to drive an STi. Holy crap, what power! Short shifter, and it just hummed. You could hear the turbocharger whine when I really played with it on the interstate. Wife loved it, too. She said all I did was smile.
So, here's the thing. I had myself convinced I wanted a WRX Limited, but now I drove the STi and, wow. Keep in mind I haven't *driven* a WRX, just an STi. Long and short of it, I can get all the options and toys I want for 30k in the WRX, and 38.5k in an STi. That's quite a jump! *Or* I could get the stripped down STi for like 33k.
So what should I do? It's going to be my daily driver, I want to have fun with it, and I might go out on an open track day once or twice just for funzies, but never seriously. Like I said I'm 38.
I'm trying to find all these reasons not to buy the STi. How much do replacement brakes cost, what about insurance differences, the tires are more expensive, the mileage is a bit worse so it'll cost that much more to drive, it's 8k more out of the box, etc.
I really like the wing on the STi. I know, ha ha, but I do. There's a sixth gear. 40 more horse. I get the nifty controllable SI-Drive. Better brakes. Better suspension.
But I will probably never run this thing like a performance car. Probably never tune it, never put an aftermarket part in it.
Has anyone faces the dilemma of potentially paying 20% more between cars when you don't know if you need the extra guts?
I'm in the market for a 2011 Subaru WRX Limited. It is my dream car. I've looked in the price range and I cannot find anything I want more. I love the look and the speed and power is just *perfect* for me.
Oh, wait, I'm 38 with a wife and kid, let's not forget that.
Ok, so this is apparently my need to fill my mid life crisis. This weekend I had the opportunity to drive an STi. Holy crap, what power! Short shifter, and it just hummed. You could hear the turbocharger whine when I really played with it on the interstate. Wife loved it, too. She said all I did was smile.
So, here's the thing. I had myself convinced I wanted a WRX Limited, but now I drove the STi and, wow. Keep in mind I haven't *driven* a WRX, just an STi. Long and short of it, I can get all the options and toys I want for 30k in the WRX, and 38.5k in an STi. That's quite a jump! *Or* I could get the stripped down STi for like 33k.
So what should I do? It's going to be my daily driver, I want to have fun with it, and I might go out on an open track day once or twice just for funzies, but never seriously. Like I said I'm 38.
I'm trying to find all these reasons not to buy the STi. How much do replacement brakes cost, what about insurance differences, the tires are more expensive, the mileage is a bit worse so it'll cost that much more to drive, it's 8k more out of the box, etc.
I really like the wing on the STi. I know, ha ha, but I do. There's a sixth gear. 40 more horse. I get the nifty controllable SI-Drive. Better brakes. Better suspension.
But I will probably never run this thing like a performance car. Probably never tune it, never put an aftermarket part in it.
Has anyone faces the dilemma of potentially paying 20% more between cars when you don't know if you need the extra guts?
killertofu
Member
Anyone in this thread have a Nissan Altima Coupe? After thinking about it, it might be that or an Accord Coupe
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Here it is, folks, the new Volkswagen Bug.
Return of the TDI diesel motor, with your choice of a manual or DSG, if that's your thing. It should get 40 MPG highway with the oil burner. It'll come with a regular petrol motor, if you want one. We're going to get the same 2.0-liter turbo from the GTI, good for 200 horsepower.
And it'll handle like Herbie. Really.
So, you like it? Or would you rather get a Fiat 500 or Mini Cooper instead?
Return of the TDI diesel motor, with your choice of a manual or DSG, if that's your thing. It should get 40 MPG highway with the oil burner. It'll come with a regular petrol motor, if you want one. We're going to get the same 2.0-liter turbo from the GTI, good for 200 horsepower.
And it'll handle like Herbie. Really.
So, you like it? Or would you rather get a Fiat 500 or Mini Cooper instead?
BoobPhysics101
Banned
AlexMogil said:
Don't bother with the STi if you're not tracking it, you can't appreciate the suspension differences.
Just spend $1k modding the WRX and pick up an extra 40-50 whp. It'll be faster than the STI too.
The 2011 STi is slow as hell unmodded. Only traps 98-99 mph. All you felt was torque, lol. If you haven't driven the WRX, the WRX is actually faster than the STI stock.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
killertofu said:
Get the Accord coupe, better mileage, reliability, and looks (in my opinion).
The Altima Coupe is hideous. A wanna-be G35.
YuriLowell
Member
killertofu said:
Don't do either. For the money get the v6 mustang. 300 horses.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
YuriLowell said:
Yeah but then you'll sit around wishing you had goten the 5.0 GT. The V6 isn't even worth getting in comparison to that monster.
Fallout-NL
Member
Copernicus said:
Seems a lot cooler than an altima or an accord?
YuriLowell
Member
Copernicus said:
which is worlds better then a fucking altima or accord.
FWD is for girls.
Also the gt is about 8 grand more.
The Bookerman
Member
Fallout-NL said:
That's the american Flag behind your avatar talking.
Not a big fan of mustangs. All fun and games in a straight line, take it to a circuit and it'll be all over the place.
YuriLowell
Member
The Bookerman said:
and a FWD car will push like no tomorrow.
You can make the mustang handle decently.
Fallout-NL
Member
The Bookerman said:
I'm from the Netherlands (over in Europe). And I can appreciate a car that handles well. I'm also aware of the fact that most muscle cars don't handle all that well, but I'd still prefer the character of a Mustang over those other two cars.
Shogmaster
Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
33-Hit-Combo
Member
BoobPhysics101 said:
I wouldn't write off the STi completely if he's not tracking it, it depends on what his normal drive is like. Over here in the UK we're littered with twisty bits and roundabouts, if he likes to push his car at all then the car will come alive in those circumstances. Not saying he has to drive like a maniac everywhere to justify it though. For me, performance (handling/power) comes over luxury if it's not ridiculously priced that is
Also to Alex, I wouldn't say that you have to tune/mod the car to fully appreciate it. It's a great performer as it is stock. If you're only after straight line performance, there's plenty of other options at a cheaper price as Boob (hehe) has suggested.
With regards to your other worries... You're 38 and very much ready to buy a new car, should you be looking at this if the auxiliaries are worrying you? I'm sure you're just thinking of excuses to back out. Can't comment about insurance, that's always a step in the dark, but tyre wise you can always downgrade at the cost of reduced performance. It's not a fixed parameter. Did the brakes get upgraded for the STi? I do know that suspension bushes (arms, ARB's etc.) may wear more, and depending on how easy they are to replace, might be something to be careful about.
Also Physics, glad to hear you went for the AP2 in the end. Definitely looking forward to some pictures!
BoobPhysics101
Banned
33-Hit-Combo said:I wouldn't write off the STi completely if he's not tracking it, it depends on what his normal drive is like. Over here in the UK we're littered with twisty bits and roundabouts, if he likes to push his car at all then the car will come alive in those circumstances. Not saying he has to drive like a maniac everywhere to justify it though. For me, performance (handling/power) comes over luxury if it's not ridiculously priced that is
Also to Alex, I wouldn't say that you have to tune/mod the car to fully appreciate it. It's a great performer as it is stock. If you're only after straight line performance, there's plenty of other options at a cheaper price as Boob (hehe) has suggested.
With regards to your other worries... You're 38 and very much ready to buy a new car, should you be looking at this if the auxiliaries are worrying you? I'm sure you're just thinking of excuses to back out. Can't comment about insurance, that's always a step in the dark, but tyre wise you can always downgrade at the cost of reduced performance. It's not a fixed parameter. Did the brakes get upgraded for the STi? I do know that suspension bushes (arms, ARB's etc.) may wear more, and depending on how easy they are to replace, might be something to be careful about.
Also Physics, glad to hear you went for the AP2 in the end. Definitely looking forward to some pictures!
Nah, I've gotta disagree. The STI gets worse mileage, has a crappier ride, etc. Once he drives a WRX he probably won't care that much about the STI, it's really not worth 8k more since it's not a monumental increase in performance in any categories (except maybe handling, but that goes out the window since you won't be able to utilize the handling in a noticeable fashion during daily driving.)
And I've also got to respectfully disagree with you about the stock performance in a straight line. Simply put, it's horrible. For a $38k car, it's even more disgusting. A bone stock S2000 has a higher trap speed in the quarter than the 2011, and the S2000 isn't a straight line monster in stock form. Sure it runs high 13's @ 100-102 MPH, but an STI? An STI should be running low 13's @ 105-106 MPH stock.
The reason for the weaksauce performance is the lame-ass factory tune. The factory tune is so conservative and crappy on the 2011 that a Stg 1 2011 STI tune is about on par with Stg 2 earlier-gen STI's. Yeah, that's bad. The WRX stock for stock is faster, and for much less. If you're not tuning an STI, you might as well not buy it.
For $38k, you can get a Mustang GT 5.0, Nissan 370z, Genesis V6 coupe, an Evo X, etc. All of those cars are far more car for the money than the STI if we're talking stock for stock when it comes to all-around performance.
And don't even get me started on straight line... the GT 5.0 and 370z rape the STI in a straight line. Those cars are trapping 107-110 MPH bone stock.
I just can't recommend a new STI, especially the 2011. Save 10-15k and buy a gently used 2008-2010 STI, or a 2009-2011 WRX if you've gotta have a Subaru.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Enron said:
It's not worth 16-19k, that's for sure.
A G35 would be a bad choice too, due to the horrible gas mileage and lame looks.
Bah, Nissan. Short of the GTR and 370z, all of their recent cars have been pretty displeasing to me. But at least they're not as bad as recent Honda/Acura line-ups. Yuck.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
The Bookerman said:
Yeah, time to re-write your generalization: the 2011 Mustangs have handling to match their straight-line prowess. That's why the GT keeps up with the M3 and the Boss spanks the M3.
You just can't hate on a Mustang GT that costs half as much as an M3 but has equivalent performance in straightline + handling. Ford is really kicking ass.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Slayer-33 said:
I wouldn't buy a 350z pre-07 MY. The early 350z motors are crap, but the HR in the 07-08 is a monstrous engine. I once read on a 350z site that if you spent 7-10k on the DE engine (pre-07 engine), you still wouldn't match a stock HR in performance.
Not to mention the early 350z's have horrible alignment/camber issues with mad tire feathering issues. And come on, another 370z aesthetics haters? Have any of you guys ever compared a 350z to a 370z in person?
BoobPhysics101
Banned
reilo said:
Come on, the interior isn't that bad. Ever seen a Porsche 911 996 interior? Now THAT'S hideous.
Plus who cares if the interior isn't Audi-quality when your eyes are blurring at the edges from tearing it up with that beast acceleration? Nobody cares about your interior quality when you're tearing it up on a road course or a drag strip, and the GT does both. I'd rather have that $30k in my pocket than the M3 prestige.
Reminds me of people who have to buy 'baller' brand name parts for cars even though cheaper brands/replicas deliver the same performance for 30-50% less.
Slayer-33 said:
I don't really like Mustangs either but man, an 03-04 "Terminator Cobra", 60's era Mustang, or 2011 5.0 look so bad-ass done right.
A friend of mine has a 1969 Mustang, mint, all original parts. So beautiful. He bought it for $9k and has had offers for up to $27k.
I offered to trade him my S2000 for it. For mad profit, of course.
Slayer-33 said:
I know what you mean, all too well! I've seen some awesome 350z's in person. I live in SoCal so the car meets are pretty nutso. I just far prefer the 370z's more aggressive styling. But a 350z done right can be sexy as hell. 19" TE-37's with fat ass tires, a nice drop and aftermarket exhaust with a nicer front bumper makes the 350z look great.
Definitely, the '07-08 350z is what the 350z should've been from the start.
Here's the difference in straightline between years
07-08 HR 350z - 13.1-13.5 @ 107-109 MPH 1/4 Mile (Stock)
03-06 DE 350z - 13.6-14.0 @ 100-103 MPH 1/4 mile (Stock)
Those are the range of 1/4 mile times/trap speeds for Stock 350z's that I could find, real-world numbers, not magazine numbers.
Huge discrepancy in speed.
One thing you might want to know... the 350z is a huge gas guzzler. Averages 17-21 MPG.
If I'm gonna be dropping $30k+ for a car brand new, you bet your sweet ass I want a nicely designed interior. Hell, I like the look of the new Mustangs, but that interior is entirely baffling.BoobPhysics101 said:
Is this the 996 interior you're talking about?
That's a MILLION times better.
See, that's a fair point if I were to use the car exclusively as a track car. And if I were to do that? I'd rip that entire interior out to save weight, then it wouldn't matter a bit.
But if I'm even going to be moderately using it as a day-to-day driver? Yeah, I'll notice that interior stopped at a traffic light, or wanting to turn on the HVAC, or wanting to roll down my windows, or even change radio stations.
Huh? What does that have to do with the look, feel, and design of an interior?
Just look at it! Makes me want to punch a baby. So gross.
And that's not even the most offensive part...
Now I feel like a damn clown is mocking me via the steering wheel and dash.
YuriLowell
Member
The boss 302 does not spank the e92 m3.
Its about equal.
Also the Camaro looks much more like a clown.
Its about equal.
Also the Camaro looks much more like a clown.
33-Hit-Combo
Member
BoobPhysics101 said:
Just read up a bit more between the two as I thought the difference was pretty big... In power, yeah, but you're spot on with the acceleration. I just don't see why Subaru have got it so 'wrong'. The STi marque is after all their 'serious' tune. When I said it's a great performer, I meant all around, not just straight lines.
Very disappointed with Subaru though. I'd still be mighty tempted by the suspension still, I'm a bit of a whore when it comes to additional badging.
GamePnoy74 said:This has to be the greatest car livery EVAR:
Porsche GT team will be fueled by chicken and waffles
I'm hungry
Here's a video of a reporter trying chicken and waffles for the first time...
BoobPhysics101
Banned
reilo said:If I'm gonna be dropping $30k+ for a car brand new, you bet your sweet ass I want a nicely designed interior. Hell, I like the look of the new Mustangs, but that interior is entirely baffling.
Is this the 996 interior you're talking about?
That's a MILLION times better.
See, that's a fair point if I were to use the car exclusively as a track car. And if I were to do that? I'd rip that entire interior out to save weight, then it wouldn't matter a bit.
But if I'm even going to be moderately using it as a day-to-day driver? Yeah, I'll notice that interior stopped at a traffic light, or wanting to turn on the HVAC, or wanting to roll down my windows, or even change radio stations.
Huh? What does that have to do with the look, feel, and design of an interior?
Just look at it! Makes me want to punch a baby. So gross.
And that's not even the most offensive part...
Now I feel like a damn clown is mocking me via the steering wheel and dash.
That's a 997 Porsche 911 interior.
THIS is a 996 interior:
Oh god, my eyes!
Anyways, the Mustang interior isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
My point about the parts etc is that you're willing to pay 2x as much for... what? M3 prestige? M3 exterior? M3 interior? The performance is the same... really, the only things left to claim as superior for the M3 is what I listed above, and maybe the different driving feel. But if we're talking performance per dollar ratio, the GT gives a far better return on your dollar.
Let's not even talk about BMW maintenance cost and reliability... buying an M3 instead of leasing one is like lighting mounds of money on fire.
YuriLowell said:
If the GT is on par with the M3, how do you figure that the Boss 302 isn't spanking it? But now that you mention it, the Boss 302 was on r-compounds and the M3 was on street tires, so that's a huge factor. Would be interesting to see both on r-compounds tracked on the same day.
That being said, the Mustang has dethroned the M3 as the 'everyday supercar.' Quite the feat, the M3 has been THE car (for the money) to beat for the last 15~ years...
I'm really curious to see how the new turbo V8 M3 does against the vicious competition.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Slayer-33 said:
As much as I like the IS-F and the IS350's performance is pretty good, plus it's reliable...
It really, really sucks that the IS350 doesn't come in a 6-speed manual. Huge oversight on Lexus' part. Would've been a lot more respectable if the option was available. I'd prefer one of those over a 350z, honestly. Much more bang for the buck.
If I were going to spend 21k on a car, I'd try to find a lightly used Evo 9 (or even Evo X) for like $16-19k and then drop a couple of grand on suspension and tuning. That'd be a great all-around car, except for the shitty gas mileage.
If gas mileage were a concern and one didn't mind FWD's limitations, the 05-06 RSX Type S or 06+ Civic Si sedan (drive by wire, yuck, and the coupe is ricey) are awesome fun daily drivers that get 40-60 whp gains just from $2k in bolt-ons + a tune, all motor, and still get great gas mileage. 25+ MPG city, 35+ MPG highway, even when modded. That's hard to beat.
Another awesome FWD DD/fun car would be an 02-05 Civic Si hatch. The K20A3 engine in it is garbage compared to the RSX Type S/Civic SI's K20A2/Z1... except when it comes to boost. Throw a turbo kit on the older Si's K20A3 and you'll get an easy 300-350 whp, tons of torque, and even better gas mileage. That car can pull 37-40 mpg on the highway, even when boosted. That engine is begging to be turbo'd. Plus it's such a clean car when done right, and totally sleeper.
I apologize in advance for any of my offensive/heart-wrenching, blunt opinions offered in this thread. I'm picky as all hell when it comes to cars. :lol
That's not a great interior by any means, but why are you comparing a 11-12 year old car interior to one made yesterday?BoobPhysics101 said:That's a 997 Porsche 911 interior.
THIS is a 996 interior:
Oh god, my eyes!
Yes, yes it is.
Okay, but I never talked about any of those things. Who are you arguing with?
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
BoobPhysics101 said:
GTR wheels with ings+1 f.bumper, shit looks clean.
I don't like black on 350'z btw but that shit looks very nice.
I'm very particular about cars/colors too boob lol
Yeah it's a shame that the IS350 is auto.. At least it has paddle shifters right? lol.. But yea man I think I will definitely go for the 350z it's currently the only car in the world for the price/looks that I am TOTALLY in love with.. If I could marry the thing I would right now. It's my fucking obsession.
Those rims cost a little bit too much though atm lol..
BoobPhysics101
Banned
reilo said:
You may want to re-read my post for context. I never compared a 996 interior to the GT's, I actually offered it as an example of what a 'horrible interior' looks like.
No, it's really not. There are far worse, more offensive interiors out there. Plus, don't forget about the price tier difference.
The question is, how are you really quantifying what a good interior in a 30k car is? You want a sweet interior in a 30k+ car that isn't a luxury cruiser? The Mustang GT was never advertised as a luxobarge like an Accord or Camry. If you want a sweet interior, you're going to spend 40-60k... so stepping into M3 territory.
Again, my arguments are for performance: what really justifies the M3 over the Mustang GT, other than aesthetics/badging? That's all.
33-Hit-Combo said:
Shit, Subaru doesn't have to get it right. Badge whores will buy the new STi, horrible stock performance or not.
I'd really have trouble justifying the STi when you could get better aftermarket suspension for much less.
Slayer-33 said:
That's a gorgeous 350z. But you gotta realize that the wheels + bumper are pretty expensive, so if you want your Z to look like that... drop that cash, brotha!
Yeah, if you want something in stick and don't care about gas mileage, a lightly used 350z HR 6 speed is a great RWD coupe.
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