Support NeoGAF

[ecnal]

I see - I was hoping to get those details though, what it does in some more detail. Does it rev to 3-4K and then launch the car, does it shift up only when revs reach red etc.

changes various traction control and CPU settings that determine where the AWD system delivers power.

i don't think anyone really knows the specifics, but i would imagine that there's probably a near 50/50 split at start, and as the car gains traction/speed it moves more towards a rear bias.

no idea what the rev limit is on launch -- probably ~5K rpm tops.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Not cluster, but center console display (and it looks great, with not a hint of what people would consider like videogame gaudiness). Now, I get what you're saying, but out of the three, it's the only car that looks the most like a 'normal' car, and not some exotic oddity that you'd feel great racing in, but strange driving on an everyday commute.

Btw, can you or someone else explain how the launch control works on GTR? What does it do?

Gotta disagree. The R35 GTR is gaudy itself, looks like an oversized Maxima with boy-racer madness in its genes.

Launch control on the GTR dynamically allocates torque to each wheel to optimize traction/minimize wheelspin since the AWD system can independently control each wheel (thats why the handling is so insane... that AWD system is uber). that's a basic explanation.

I was considering purchasing an elise, and then I looked at how the suspension was put together, and decided against it.

Is this a joke? The Elise suspension is nothing complex or difficult to master. If you think it is, don't get an S2000, 370z, etc...

What is ridiculously expensive is bodywork. The whole body is a clamshell, so if one tiny piece gets fucked up, it costs over $10k to fix. You can find a thread on Google where a Jeep hit an Elise @ 10 MPH in a parking lot... over $25k to fix. Totaled pretty much. Yeah, fuck that. Not to mention you'll die in a crash, straight-up.

Edit: Here's the thread/proof: http://forums.evolutionm.net/other-cars/147572-me-elise-wrecked-cost-repair-18-000-a.html

 

[ecnal]

Launch control on the GTR dynamically allocates torque to each wheel to optimize traction/minimize wheelspin since the AWD system can independently control each wheel (thats why the handling is so insane... that AWD system is uber). that's a basic explanation.



Is this a joke? The Elise suspension is nothing complex or difficult to master. If you think it is, don't get an S2000, 370z, etc...

What is ridiculously expensive is bodywork. The whole body is a clamshell, so if one tiny piece gets fucked up, it costs over $10k to fix. You can find a thread on Google where a Jeep hit an Elise @ 10 MPH in a parking lot... over $25k to fix. Totaled pretty much. Yeah, fuck that.

i'm actually curious how "dynamic" the launch control settings are.

totally a guess here, but i kind of figured that the GTR engineers have probably found optimal differential biases at various stages through the launch process -- then allowing some degree of change based on actual traction dependent on the surface conditions.

tl;dr some "dynamic" on the fly calculations, but far less dynamic than the system would be out of launch control.

just a guess.

re the elise: holy shit.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

i'm actually curious how "dynamic" the launch control settings are.

totally a guess here, but i kind of figured that the GTR engineers have probably found optimal differential biases at various stages through the launch process -- then allowing some degree of change based on actual traction dependent on the surface conditions.

tl;dr some "dynamic" on the fly calculations, but far less dynamic than the system would be out of launch control.

just a guess.

re the elise: holy shit.

I'd be curious too... maybe it is just diff openings at various RPM's, but if it were me, I'd use torque-sensing to perfect the launch.

 

[Vicetrailia]

So I have 10,000 to spend on a car, what do you guys recommend that I get?

I love the Celica, RSX, Accord and Impreza.

But I may not get the incredibly impressive impreza due to it's gas mileage.

What other cars are worth looking at that's comparable to these cars.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

So I have 10,000 to spend on a car, what do you guys recommend that I get?

I love the Celica, RSX, Accord and Impreza.

But I may not get the incredibly impressive impreza due to it's gas mileage.

What other cars are worth looking at that's comparable to these cars.

Are you looking for fuel efficiency or performance or something with a little bit of both.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Are you looking for fuel efficiency or performance or something with a little bit of both.

Both.

And actually forget about price, I'll just put a big down payment instead of trying to pay for one completely.

I hear that the new Civic SI's will give me all of that and the new Lancers seem to kick ass.

Reading about reliability woes on the accords since 08 makes me nervous about getting one. But the Accord Coupe is pretty ideal for me.

G35's are not quite good enough on gas.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Both.

And actually forget about price, I'll just put a big down payment instead of trying to pay for one completely.

I hear that the new Civic SI's will give me all of that and the new Lancers seem to kick ass.

Reading about reliability woes on the accords since 08 makes me nervous about getting one. But the Accord Coupe is pretty ideal for me.

G35's are not quite good enough on gas.

Anyone buying the new 2012 Civic Si is a fool.

The MSRP is $22k. Guess what else you can get for $22k?

Used Evo X
WRX
2011 Mustang V6 (315 HP)
Used STi
Acura TL Type S

All of those options rape the 2012 Civic Si.

If it were me, I'd go for the Acura TL Type S or Evo X, maybe the WRX. Fuck the Accord V6 coupe when you can get a way better TL Type S. I heard one of those the other day with a nice exhaust... sounded goooooood. Like a V8. I find most V6's sound like shit.

 

[BloodySinner]

Anyone buying the new 2012 Civic Si is a fool.

The MSRP is $22k. Guess what else you can get for $22k?

Used Evo X
WRX
2011 Mustang V6 (315 HP)
Used STi

All of those options rape the 2012 Civic Si.

Not to mention it's ugly as fuck inside and out.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Not to mention it's ugly as fuck inside and out.

This. This, so very much.

 

[AlphaSnake]

The new Civic doesn't even look new.

Honda deserves its dwindling market share numbers for rehashing and making shit cars.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

The new Civic doesn't even look new.

Honda deserves its dwindling market share numbers for rehashing and making shit cars.

Hell, they didn't even rehash their own car.

The new Civic was new... 10 years ago

2002 Camry

2012 Civic

 

[Ovid]

Camry/Civic pic

LOL.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Well the Camry is the epitome of generic, so no surprise the new Civic is too.

 

[Smokey]

CAR ALERT

Dealership up the street has a smooth as fuck black 07 M5 with 24k miles for $43,000. Just got back from looking at it...


BROS...what would you do?

 

[Pein]

CAR ALERT

Dealership up the street has a smooth as fuck black 07 M5 with 27k miles for $43,000. Just got back from looking at it...


BROS...what would you do?

Get an 08 M3.

 

[Smokey]

Get an 08 M3.

Over a M5 because....?

Not trying to be a smart ass, just looking for your reasoning

 

[Pterion]

Over a M5 because....?

Not trying to be a smart ass, just looking for your reasoning

Lighter, smaller, sportier, sexier, newer (the next M5 will be here next year, the next M3 not until 2014), better fuel consumption, better suited for a younger audience, etc.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

CAR ALERT

Dealership up the street has a smooth as fuck black 07 M5 with 24k miles for $43,000. Just got back from looking at it...


BROS...what would you do?

Get the M5. Fuck an M3, the E60 M5 is sex. That 500 hp V10 sounds like heaven. Going WOT will send a tingle down your spine. It's not as torquey as some V8's, but good God is it a satisfying engine. If you've ever been in an E46 M3, the M5's V10 is basically an S54 with 4 more cylinders. Yeah, it's that good.

Lighter, smaller, sportier, sexier, newer (the next M5 will be here next year, the next M3 not until 2014), better fuel consumption, better suited for a younger audience, etc.

LMAO @ better fuel consumption

"Bro, my M3 gets 2 MPG better than an M5! Fuck yeah!"

Jesus, have you ever been in an M5? Blows the E90 M3 away. The V10 is ridiculously satisfying, the seats could only be better if they had a dick-sucking mechanism, and younger audience? I don't give a fuck man, I'm in my early 20's and I will rock an M5 all day. Gorgeous, beastly fun cars.

Not trying to be mean, but if you haven't experienced an E39 or E60 M5, you're missing out. They're almost too much fun to be sedans.

If you can afford it, it is (to me) cooler than an M3 simply because the M5 is a rarer, more potent beast. I was more impressed with the E39 M5 I saw yesterday than the E90 M3's I see everyday...

P.S. Don't ever look at an M6. It is the black sheep of the M family and it is a revolting, baby-raping mongoloid of a car.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

CAR ALERT

Dealership up the street has a smooth as fuck black 07 M5 with 24k miles for $43,000. Just got back from looking at it...


BROS...what would you do?

True bros never turn down a real M car

 

[Smokey]

I'm going to go check it more in depth tomorrow. Something sounds off.

They have a BMW 328 for 29k....so for 13k more....a M5?

Should mention this is at a Honda dealership btw LOL

 

[twinturbo2]

If it's the one with the V10 engine, I'd consider it.

Take a look, see if it's still in good condition, and make an offer if you can afford it.

 

[AlphaSnake]

CAR ALERT

Dealership up the street has a smooth as fuck black 07 M5 with 24k miles for $43,000. Just got back from looking at it...


BROS...what would you do?

That's actually exactly the right price for the car.

Just do know one thing, they are expensive to maintain, especially to repair. My brother has an M6 and he's had some issues with it (he has one of the earliest US production 2006 models). He loves the car and has gotten an extended warranty for it - it's his daily driver.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

That's actually exactly the right price for the car.

Just do know one thing, they are expensive to maintain, especially to repair. My brother has an M6 and he's had some issues with it (he has one of the earliest US production 2006 models). He loves the car and has gotten an extended warranty for it - it's his daily driver.

Agreed x100. M cars are fucking beasts to maintain.

Dat extended warranty

 

[reilo]

I'm watching a GTR being tuned right now. It just hit 590awhp on pump gas. They're gonna convert it over to an E85 blend, so you can only imagine the numbers then.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I know they definitely have another E85 GTR. It made 85 more HP over standard pump gas.

 

[Pterion]

I may buy a 2009 E90 335i sedan within the next few days, if the dealer agrees with my latest offer (4k below what they originally asked for, rather than 2.5k). I would keep it for the next 4 years until CPO warranty is out, then look into switching to a M car hopefully as I finish residency.

Or maybe I will wait another 1-2 years and get my hands on an used M3? Maintenance kind of scares me on these cars, but got to pay to play...

One of the sexiest cars out there!

 

[reilo]

Be careful with the x35 BMWs. They still haven't fixed the damn HPFP on those things. They do, however, have a recall on them if they break. Problem is that they'll just put another OEM pump in there.

 

[Pterion]

Be careful with the x35 BMWs. They still haven't fixed the damn HPFP on those things. They do, however, have a recall on them if they break. Problem is that they'll just put another OEM pump in there.

I'm well aware of the hpfp issues. Coverage has been extended for up to 8 or 10 years, I believe. More then enough for me. The car never had its fuel pump changed according to the service records, and it doesn't look like a lemon. We'll see...

 

[AlphaSnake]

I'd rather pony up for the M3 now. Do it once. Do it right. I drove these when car shopping and loved it - please get it in stick, Dual Clutch Transmissions are so lifeless and lame. The 335i is a great car, but the lack of a true diff, the bland and flat bumpers and fender lines really make it look...well, bland.

Used M3s can be had CPO and aren't that expensive anymore. I was seeing them in the $40K range all the time, especially if they're manuals.

 

[Pterion]

I'd rather pony up for the M3 now. Do it once. Do it right. I drove these when car shopping and loved it - please get it in stick, Dual Clutch Transmissions are so lifeless and lame. The 335i is a great car, but the lack of a true diff, the bland and flat bumpers and fender lines really make it look...well, bland.

Used M3s can be had CPO and aren't that expensive anymore. I was seeing them in the $40K range all the time, especially if they're manuals.

I live in Canada, so way higher prices. Anyway, I'm not 100% into the 335i anymore, and the dealer visit kind of confirmed it. Good cars and all, but kind of bland (except the drive). For that kind of dough, part of me feels like waiting for something truly special.

Deal is off! Thanks for setting a bro straight, GAF!

 

[AlphaSnake]

I live in Canada, so way higher prices. Anyway, I'm not 100% into the 335i anymore, and the dealer visit kind of confirmed it. Good cars and all, but kind of bland (except the drive). For that kind of dough, part of me feels like waiting for something truly special.

Deal is off! Thanks for setting a bro straight, GAF!

Hah! What did I say? Bland, indeed. Where in Canada are you? If you're in the western area (Victoria, Vancouver, etc.) where snow isn't much of an issue go drive a 370Z. And make sure it's a fully loaded model with navi (you get a totally different and muuuuuuuuuch nicer center console.

Bland is definitely not what you'll say about the 370Z. Heh.

 

[Pterion]

Hah! What did I say? Bland, indeed. Where in Canada are you? If you're in the western area (Victoria, Vancouver, etc.) where snow isn't much of an issue go drive a 370Z. And make sure it's a fully loaded model with navi (you get a totally different and muuuuuuuuuch nicer center console.

Bland is definitely not what you'll say about the 370Z. Heh.

Snow is a bit of an issue in Ontario, but that won't stop me from owning a RWD car. If the G37s I testdrove are any indication, that VQ37 (or whatever it's called) is not anything special. I was very underwhelmed by the Gs, and I'm not very interested in a 2 seater, so that rules out the 370z. I'm sure it performs great on the track though.

 

[reilo]

I'd rather pony up for the M3 now. Do it once. Do it right. I drove these when car shopping and loved it - please get it in stick, Dual Clutch Transmissions are so lifeless and lame. The 335i is a great car, but the lack of a true diff, the bland and flat bumpers and fender lines really make it look...well, bland.

Used M3s can be had CPO and aren't that expensive anymore. I was seeing them in the $40K range all the time, especially if they're manuals.

I talked to a guy today that owns the 135i and he said it would cost $3,000 to get a LSD put in.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Snow is a bit of an issue in Ontario, but that won't stop me from owning a RWD car. If the G37s I testdrove are any indication, that VQ37 (or whatever it's called) is not anything special. I was very underwhelmed by the Gs, and I'm not very interested in a 2 seater, so that rules out the 370z. I'm sure it performs great on the track though.

I'm not a fan of the G37 myself - at 3700lbs it's too heavy. The 370 weights 400-500lbs less, and slings like a banshee. But I hear you on the 2-seats.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I talked to a guy today that owns the 135i and he said it would cost $3,000 to get a LSD put in.

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous if you ask me. BMW should've offered this as an option from the factory like many other brands with RWD offerings do. I think even a Hyundai Genesis has a diff.

 

[BloodySinner]

Or maybe I will wait another 1-2 years and get my hands on an used M3? Maintenance kind of scares me on these cars, but got to pay to play...

Or do the maintenance yourself to cut costs down?

EDIT:

Jesus Christ...

 

[AlphaSnake]

Or do the maintenance yourself to cut costs down?

You can do the oil changes yourself, sure. Maybe even the brakes, if you get the correct tool BMW uses to open the caliper. But what if you experience mechanical failure? These V8s are notorious for issues now, and there are many facets of the car that an everyday Joe will not be able to fix himself.

 

[reilo]

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous if you ask me. BMW should've offered this as an option from the factory like many other brands with RWD offerings do. I think even a Hyundai Genesis has a diff.

Even my Speed6 has a LSD... and so does the RX-8. No excuse.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Even my Speed6 has a LSD... and so does the RX-8. No excuse.

Yeah. A RWD 550i with 400HP without an LSD is unsettling to me. That's a lot of power to pray gets put down to both wheels evenly. Especially on a $62K car...

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Yeah. A RWD 550i with 400HP without an LSD is unsettling to me. That's a lot of power to pray gets put down to both wheels evenly. Especially on a $62K car...

It's BMW, what do you expect? They'd nickle and dime you for cupholders.

 

[Smokey]

I'd rather pony up for the M3 now. Do it once. Do it right. I drove these when car shopping and loved it - please get it in stick, Dual Clutch Transmissions are so lifeless and lame. The 335i is a great car, but the lack of a true diff, the bland and flat bumpers and fender lines really make it look...well, bland.

Used M3s can be had CPO and aren't that expensive anymore. I was seeing them in the $40K range all the time, especially if they're manuals.

This is true. I went to the BMW dealer after messing around with the M5 yesterday..had 2 CPO M3's for 47k. Both were manual.

I'd love to get a manual for a car like a M3...but I live in Houston. Traffic is horrible.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I thought about getting an Audi A5. but am going to get a couple Hondas instead.

An Element and S2000. The insurance will be cheaper on both cars than one A5.

 

[surrealist]

Car guys make the best dads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQCFgJalNo4&feature=channel_video_title

 

[Fordzilla]

Yeah. A RWD 550i with 400HP without an LSD is unsettling to me. That's a lot of power to pray gets put down to both wheels evenly. Especially on a $62K car...

I drive a 360 HP/380 lb-ft of torque F150 with an open diff (that is able to be locked) without issue. It's also geared pretty low, and when I smash the gas it spins both tires when traction control is off.

That's on pavement though, if I'm in snow or mud the traction control kicks in to assist. Although these are conditions in which I wouldn't expect anyone to drive a BMW.

 

[reilo]

I drive a 360 HP/380 lb-ft of torque F150 with an open diff (that is able to be locked) without issue. It's also geared pretty low, and when I smash the gas it spins both tires when traction control is off.

That's on pavement though, if I'm in snow or mud the traction control kicks in to assist. Although these are conditions in which I wouldn't expect anyone to drive a BMW.

I don't think AlphaSnake was commenting about lack of LSD as a hindrance for daily-driver use.

 

[Pterion]

Yea, there should be some pretty sweet deals on a M3 in the upcoming months. This one I just found out minutes ago makes me salivate.

E92 M3, 55 000 kms (34k miles), fully loaded except for EDC, winter tires + wheels included, for 47 k before takes (canada).

I have to look into how much more will I pay in insurance and extended warranty. More than what I'm comfortable spending, but it doesn't hurt to dream a bit.

 

[Fordzilla]

I don't think AlphaSnake was commenting about lack of LSD as a hindrance for daily-driver use.

Neither was I unless you consider doing burnouts and driving through mud daily driving situations.

 

[AlphaSnake]

This is true. I went to the BMW dealer after messing around with the M5 yesterday..had 2 CPO M3's for 47k. Both were manual.

I'd love to get a manual for a car like a M3...but I live in Houston. Traffic is horrible.

Houston traffic has nothing on NYC. I've already experienced a bunch of bumper-to-bumper accidents. It's really not that bad - and Zs are considered to have stiffer and more difficult clutches. It's not that big of a deal on the softer BMW clutch.

 

[BloodySinner]

I'd love to get a manual for a car like a M3...but I live in Houston. Traffic is horrible.

How many times have I heard that excuse...

But what if you experience mechanical failure? These V8s are notorious for issues now, and there are many facets of the car that an everyday Joe will not be able to fix himself.

Then invest in a better vehicle?