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[ascii42]

Looks like Top Gear USA Season 2 starts July 24. I for one am looking forward to it. I thought the first season improved as it went along, and I have hopes that this will continue.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/28/u-s-top-gear-returns-july-24

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Again, you're telling me things that I have to take your word at (btw I 100% believe you, but that's because I'm not looking to buy your car) to justify you asking for a higher price. And even after a proper inspection you know what? I think I'd rather get the car stock and do my own modifying.

There's no reason to be defensive, I'm just stating an observable truth, modifications don't have a 1:1 ratio of their cost : car value. They just don't.

Edit: And just because a car has a sporting image and mentality doesn't mean that all of its owners will race it. I guarantee you could find an S2000 who was owned by someone who never went over the speed limit but was fastidious about proper maintenance.


I didn't notice this at first. How in the world are you doing that? Did you buy the parts used off of a salvaged car or something and plan on reselling them at a higher value? This doesn't make sense.

One thing that works in my favor is that unless you go out of state, it's pretty hard to find a low mileage, nice condition AP1 (00-03). I happen to have an 02 with 63k miles so it's a highly desired car thanks (in part) to being low production. I guess you could say if they don't like it, they're most likely SOL.

I buy all of my parts at a significant discount. For example, the KW V3 coilovers I have retail for $2300 new, I bought mine for $1650 new, if I decide to sell them I'll get around $1800. I paid $1k for my hardtop, I'll sell it for close to $2k, I paid $650 for my Recaros, I sold them for $1k + stock seats (about $1500 in value), etc. I NEVER buy a part unless I know I can resell it for what I paid for it or more. I also

Hell, a few months ago I bought a bunch of audio stuff for $200, got a nice head unit, an S2000 specific adapter, two component speakers, an amp, and some other stuff. Turned around and sold the head unit + adapter for $190, got the amp + speakers for $10 essentially. I can sell those right now for about $250 total.

Essentially the key is to avoid depreciation. Why be a dumbass and buy an $800 exhaust brand new, take the instant hit in depreciation and then only be able to resell it for $450 when you can just buy it used for $450?

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

One thing that works in my favor is that unless you go out of state, it's pretty hard to find a low mileage, nice condition AP1 (00-03). I happen to have an 02 with 63k miles so it's a highly desired car thanks (in part) to being low production. I guess you could say if they don't like it, they're most likely SOL.

I buy all of my parts at a significant discount. For example, the KW V3 coilovers I have retail for $2300 new, I bought mine for $1650 new, if I decide to sell them I'll get around $1800. I paid $1k for my hardtop, I'll sell it for close to $2k, I paid $650 for my Recaros, I sold them for $1k + stock seats (about $1500 in value), etc. I NEVER buy a part unless I know I can resell it for what I paid for it or more. I also

Hell, a few months ago I bought a bunch of audio stuff for $200, got a nice head unit, an S2000 specific adapter, two component speakers, an amp, and some other stuff. Turned around and sold the head unit + adapter for $190, got the amp + speakers for $10 essentially. I can sell those right now for about $250 total.

Essentially the key is to avoid depreciation. Why be a dumbass and buy an $800 exhaust brand new, take the instant hit in depreciation and then only be able to resell it for $450 when you can just buy it used for $450?

Well yeah, selling parts off the car is the way to do it, I think you know that you'd never recoup the same money if you tried to sell all those parts on the car, so where's the argument?

 

[twinturbo2]

The FIAT dealership is almost ready for opening right next to my place. They already have the flags fluttering in the wind. Gives me good memories, my first car was a FIAT Uno and my family and friends have a history with the marque.

I might go there on opening day and pretend I'm thinking of ditching the STI for a 500 just to get a test drive.

You don't need to do that, I just asked and they let me drive one around the block.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

One thing that works in my favor is that unless you go out of state, it's pretty hard to find a low mileage, nice condition AP1 (00-03). I happen to have an 02 with 63k miles so it's a highly desired car thanks (in part) to being low production. I guess you could say if they don't like it, they're most likely SOL.

I buy all of my parts at a significant discount. For example, the KW V3 coilovers I have retail for $2300 new, I bought mine for $1650 new, if I decide to sell them I'll get around $1800. I paid $1k for my hardtop, I'll sell it for close to $2k, I paid $650 for my Recaros, I sold them for $1k + stock seats (about $1500 in value), etc. I NEVER buy a part unless I know I can resell it for what I paid for it or more. I also

Hell, a few months ago I bought a bunch of audio stuff for $200, got a nice head unit, an S2000 specific adapter, two component speakers, an amp, and some other stuff. Turned around and sold the head unit + adapter for $190, got the amp + speakers for $10 essentially. I can sell those right now for about $250 total.

Essentially the key is to avoid depreciation. Why be a dumbass and buy an $800 exhaust brand new, take the instant hit in depreciation and then only be able to resell it for $450 when you can just buy it used for $450?

What state do you live in btw? In southern california there are a shit ton of S2k's here with mileage close to yours.

 

[Limedust]

Has anyone plasti-dipped their rims here? My cousin introduced me to it tonight and I've become interested. I have 16" alloys that i'd like to be matte black, thoughts?

Seems like a good way to refresh my cars look (new 2010 mazda 3 gs hatch) without spending 2-3k on new rims which I haven't done before...

A lot of people do it with good results. It's not permanent, and that is the point. They run it for a few months, then peel it off.

If you want a permanent solution, powder coat is probably the best option.

 

[Giant Robot]

Adding to this: I see a car on lowered-springs with engine mods and I think: This car was driven hard by somebody irresponsible, so how much time has this thing spent bouncing off the rev limiter and how much will it cost for a new clutch...because it needs one.

kind of a generalization, but I see where you're getting at. If I see a car with shitty aftermarket stuff on it, I'm going to assume that the owner doesn't really care enough to use a quality part, thus not caring about the overall car's maintenance, performance, etc. I wouldn't even attempt to contact this person and try to offer a lower price. Too much of an unknown risk.

However, If I see the same car with high quality parts, it's going to be a little bit safer to assume that the person is more of an enthusiast. That the person took time and lots of money to do things right, thus giving more special attention and care. There is still some room for doubt that this person could have probably beat the crap out of the car, but I think 2 enthusiasts have some sort of trust that they can sense from one another.

If I wanted a stock car, I would not look at any modded cars at all. Not every "modded" car is going to be driven irresponsibly. You can make quick judgements about people's irresponsibility driving habits just by conversing with them about how much info they are willing to give up on their car, what, and why they are selling.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

kind of a generalization, but I see where you're getting at. If I see a car with shitty aftermarket stuff on it, I'm going to assume that the owner doesn't really care enough to use a quality part, thus not caring about the overall car's maintenance, performance, etc. I wouldn't even attempt to contact this person and try to offer a lower price. Too much of an unknown risk.

However, If I see the same car with high quality parts, it's going to be a little bit safer to assume that the person is more of an enthusiast. That the person took time and lots of money to do things right, thus giving more special attention and care. There is still some room for doubt that this person could have probably beat the crap out of the car, but I think 2 enthusiasts have some sort of trust that they can sense from one another.

If I wanted a stock car, I would not look at any modded cars at all. Not every "modded" car is going to be driven irresponsibly. You can make quick judgements about people's irresponsibility driving habits just by conversing with them about how much info they are willing to give up on their car, what, and why they are selling.

Well let me speak from my experience here--back when I was on some 911 boards, people who were both well known on the forum and frequent track drivers would sometimes sell their cars. Now these were very nice cars with very nice setups and only the best parts.

Then they'd go for maybe a few grand above stock when the Porsche coilovers alone cost more.

And those were enthusiasts selling to enthusiasts who knew each other.

But you're right, it is a generalization, if I see a nice car that's been tastefully modded with the right parts I'll think well of the owner. Won't really pay him much more for it, though, and I'll absolutely have to do a more extensive inspection before buying.

 

[Giant Robot]

Then they'd go for maybe a few grand above stock when the Porsche coilovers alone cost more.

And those were enthusiasts selling to enthusiasts who knew each other.

And that's where it's kind of a grey area, because these enthusiast are the ones dictating these values with said special car + parts or whatever. I never believe that any aftermarket part should drive up the cost of the car's value, except maybe for some wheels since that is a very personal and customized part.

 

[MisterNoisy]

You don't need to do that, I just asked and they let me drive one around the block.

How'd you like it? They look like a lot of fun, even though we don't get the Abarth yet. :/

 

[Halvie]

blah blah blah," and "blah blah blah" is all I hear .

Pretty much what I got out of your post.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

And that's where it's kind of a grey area, because these enthusiast are the ones dictating these values with said special car + parts or whatever. I never believe that any aftermarket part should drive up the cost of the car's value, except maybe for some wheels since that is a very personal and customized part.

I can see what you mean but if you aren't willing to pay for the parts I think you should just look for a stock car.

 

[ameratsu]

You don't need to do that, I just asked and they let me drive one around the block.

I drove a Sport 5spd. It was okay, pretty fun to drive for an economy car. I have big feet and how close the pedals were too close to each other though. I plan on showing up to the dealer next year to check out the Abarth version.

I just showed up and the salesman let me drive the one I wanted to. Dunno about where you live though.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I can see what you mean but if you aren't willing to pay for the parts I think you should just look for a stock car.

Even if someone wants exactly the parts on the seller's car they're not going to pay full price for the parts. They're not even going to pay half-price.

 

[J-Rzez]

So I just built a Mustang GT loaded up the way I'd want it, and then built a Boss. The Boss is only a couple hundred more, but lacks the glass roof and navi. I could live with that. This car is putting out some impressive figures. 0-60 in 3.9-4.4sec, 1g skid, great brakes. This car is amazing for it's price. And it's amazing it still has that ancient live-rear-axel in it to boot. I'd seriously consider this, but I'm waiting on checking out the next STI, EVO (hopefully), and FRS to decide the route I'm going to go here.

 

[abuC]

Im going to be selling my car soon, It's a 1994 Toyota Supra tt (6spd) with 63k miles and I'm kind of torn on what to get after it. I have a daily driver (Camry) that I'll be getting rid of and would like to turn two cars into one that is daily driven and can also hit the track once on a blue moon. I'm interested in the latest Evo, Sti and Audi S4, while I love the Audi's body I'm kind of worried about reliability, anyone have experience with the S line of cars?

 

[Giant Robot]

Im going to be selling my car soon, It's a 1994 Toyota Supra tt (6spd) with 63k miles and I'm kind of torn on what to get after it. I have a daily driver (Camry) that I'll be getting rid of and would like to turn two cars into one that is daily driven and can also hit the track once on a blue moon. I'm interested in the latest Evo, Sti and Audi S4, while I love the Audi's body I'm kind of worried about reliability, anyone have experience with the S line of cars?

just curious, but what are asking for your Supra TT? That's pretty low mileage for one.

I just had a dream last night that I owned 2 FD RX7's. One in my living room and one in my second story bedroom. Is it a sign?

 

[Jamesfrom818]

So I just built a Mustang GT loaded up the way I'd want it, and then built a Boss. The Boss is only a couple hundred more, but lacks the glass roof and navi. I could live with that. This car is putting out some impressive figures. 0-60 in 3.9-4.4sec, 1g skid, great brakes. This car is amazing for it's price. And it's amazing it still has that ancient live-rear-axel in it to boot. I'd seriously consider this, but I'm waiting on checking out the next STI, EVO (hopefully), and FRS to decide the route I'm going to go here.

The boss has a somewhat limited production. Unless you know if your local dealer is actually getting one, good luck finding one.

 

[twinturbo2]

How'd you like it? They look like a lot of fun, even though we don't get the Abarth yet. :/

They're literally the happiest cars out there. They're adorable in the way puppies are adorable. The car is good, too.

 

[abuC]

just curious, but what are asking for your Supra TT? That's pretty low mileage for one.

I just had a dream last night that I owned 2 FD RX7's. One in my living room and one in my second story bedroom. Is it a sign?

I'll probably ask for 28k obo (clean title), I'm going to put it up for sale in a few weeks. Quick pic I took just now in Best Buy parking lot

http://oi52.tinypic.com/2hoxsat.jpg

http://oi55.tinypic.com/20qjdbs.jpg

I want to get an FC for strictly the track, I love rotaries too.

 

[Giant Robot]

I'll probably ask for 28k obo (clean title), I'm going to put it up for sale in a few weeks. Quick pic I took just now in Best Buy parking lot

http://oi52.tinypic.com/2hoxsat.jpg

http://oi55.tinypic.com/20qjdbs.jpg

I want to get an FC for strictly the track, I love rotaries too.

I'm positive you can get more than that. Don't they typically go for $35-45k near 100k miles?

 

[twinturbo2]

Apparently, the Cinqueciento is big in Texas. Who knew?

http://wardsauto.com/ar/fiat_soave_texas_0628/

Also, 70 percent of dealer orders have the manual transmission equipped, and 70 percent of early adopters are men.

http://search.autonews.com/v/42144198/fiat-500-a-man-magnet-6-28-11.htm?

 

[abuC]

I'm positive you can get more than that. Don't they typically go for $35-45k near 100k miles?

I haven't really checked the Supra market lately, but from my experience the cars in the $35-45k range with 100k miles or more are usually well over 600rwhp and usually have a big single. My car is still on the stock turbos and just has basic mods, nothing extreme. So it falls in the middle ground between the bone stock low mileage cars and the cars with serious power.

Also, my car has a CF hood that the previous owner installed I hate it and have had no luck finding a stock hood. If I can get one I'll ask for more, but they're really hard to find.

 

[MisterNoisy]

Apparently, the Cinqueciento is big in Texas. Who knew?

http://wardsauto.com/ar/fiat_soave_texas_0628/

Also, 70 percent of dealer orders have the manual transmission equipped, and 70 percent of early adopters are men.

http://search.autonews.com/v/42144198/fiat-500-a-man-magnet-6-28-11.htm?

Very cool - interesting to see that the 500 is something of a segment buster. Who knew that a 1.4L A-segment subcompact would skew so heavily towards the 'car enthusiast' (male; M/T)?

 

[twinturbo2]

Very cool - interesting to see that the 500 is something of a segment buster. Who knew that a 1.4L A-segment subcompact would skew so heavily towards the 'car enthusiast' (male; M/T)?

All this, and the Abarth hasn't crossed the pond yet! There's still hope yet for gearheads!

 

[Angry Grimace]

So I just built a Mustang GT loaded up the way I'd want it, and then built a Boss. The Boss is only a couple hundred more, but lacks the glass roof and navi. I could live with that. This car is putting out some impressive figures. 0-60 in 3.9-4.4sec, 1g skid, great brakes. This car is amazing for it's price. And it's amazing it still has that ancient live-rear-axel in it to boot. I'd seriously consider this, but I'm waiting on checking out the next STI, EVO (hopefully), and FRS to decide the route I'm going to go here.

Depending on where you live, some dealers will put a erm, "market adjustment" on the Boss to make it nowhere near the price of a GT.

The Boss has a seriously ugly paint job too.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Just wanted to compare 370Z sales versus the others:

2011: 4K sold YTD
2010: 10K sold
2009: 13K sold

For comparison's sake, in 2010 there were 81,371 Camaros sold, compared to 73,716 Mustangs. That's just one year.

 

[CrankyJay]

I didn't know where else to post this. How much tip would you give on a $90 interior detail job? They did a pretty good job. Was my first detail so I didn't know what else to gauge it against.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Just wanted to compare 370Z sales versus the others:

2011: 4K sold YTD
2010: 10K sold
2009: 13K sold

For comparison's sake, in 2010 there were 81,371 Camaros sold, compared to 73,716 Mustangs. That's just one year.

In all fairness, they aren't the same class of car and having only 2 seats is gonna really kill sales. They still sold less of 'em than GM sold Corvettes (which are $20,000 more)

 

[AlphaSnake]

In all fairness, they aren't the same class of car and having only 2 seats is gonna really kill sales. They still sold less of 'em than GM sold Corvettes (which are $20,000 more)

The thing is that at one point the 350Z sold over 30k cars a year, granted this is when it was relaunched. Still, Nissan began to intentionally manufacture less and less of them as time went on.

And yeah, despite the 2-seater thing, GM sells 4-times as many Corvettes.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The thing is that at one point the 350Z sold over 30k cars a year, granted this is when it was relaunched. Still, Nissan began to intentionally manufacture less and less of them as time went on.

And yeah, despite the 2-seater thing, GM sells 4-times as many Corvettes.

I haven't driven a 350+ but the first thing that strikes me is that they seem expensive...were the pre 300ZX cars such expensive cars?

The low numbers they sell/manufacture are pretty obvious from the secondary market in them; I mean, anyone looking for a legitimate sports car can just stretch their budget for a used C5 or even a C6 these days and know you're getting a bitch car (other than lolgminterior).

I'm not a huge fan of the bubble design inherent in the 350 and 370z cars.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

But isn't Nissan going for a different market than GM?

 

[reilo]

Just wanted to compare 370Z sales versus the others:

2011: 4K sold YTD
2010: 10K sold
2009: 13K sold

For comparison's sake, in 2010 there were 81,371 Camaros sold, compared to 73,716 Mustangs. That's just one year.

Those numbers are staggering to me. It must be the location I live in, but I see more 370Zs than Camaros. However, I do see a billion-fuck-ton of Mustangs.

 

[Bad_Boy]

and also, the 370z is more expensive than the 350z when it first came out. my dad (who owned a 350z, and now 370z) was surprised at the almost 10k price difference.

marketing also plays a roll. i see camaro, mustang, and charger commercials/ads everywhere. i don't remember one 370z commercial unless it was bundled in the rest of the Nissan lineup.

 

[reilo]

Doesn't the new 370z top off at $40k? That's luxury vehicle territory, and all of the sudden you're competing with a different market. Pound for pound, the Z is up there and even beyond in many cases, but the Z doesn't have the brand recognition.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Doesn't the new 370z top off at $40k? That's luxury vehicle territory, and all of the sudden you're competing with a different market. Pound for pound, the Z is up there and even beyond in many cases, but the Z doesn't have the brand recognition.

exactly.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

I see a ton of z's over here in SoCal.
Also, the 370 was heavily marketed at first, then they just stopped.

 

[likedamaster]

The things I'd do for an Enzo...




Oh, just get it over with!

 

[AlphaSnake]

Doesn't the new 370z top off at $40k? That's luxury vehicle territory, and all of the sudden you're competing with a different market. Pound for pound, the Z is up there and even beyond in many cases, but the Z doesn't have the brand recognition.

Actually, the Z's brand recognition is among the highest in the sports car segment. A little fact about the Z is that back in the 70s and 80s, it was the best selling sports car in the United States. It's brand recognition has reached quite an iconic level.

As far as cost...my fully loaded 370Z had an MSRP of $44.5K. It'd have been $46K if I got an Automatic. That's Touring + Sports + Navigation + Black Cherry + Factory Nismo Brake Pads. It's worth every penny. The level of sophistication, the quality of the ride, the refinement inside and out...I love this car.

I've just installed a new set of springs, and it rides no different than it did stock, but handles even better. Goes to show Nissan used some fantastic dampers on the car that don't degrade the ride quality with a lowered suspension.

 

[Ovid]

What were the sales numbers over the past eight years? I thing the relaunch was in 2003, correct?

Every time I would see a 350 back then I would be in awe. And that exhaust note when it peeled out...man, that thing was sexy.

 

[AlphaSnake]

What were the sales numbers over the past eight years? I thing the relaunch was in 2003, correct?

Every time I would see a 350 back then I would be in awe. And that exhaust note when it peeled out...man, that thing was sexy.

2002 13,253
2003 36,728
2004 30,690
2005 27,278
2006 24,635
2007 18,957
2008 10,337

The 2002 cars were model year 2003s.

 

[J-Rzez]

Just wanted to compare 370Z sales versus the others:

2011: 4K sold YTD
2010: 10K sold
2009: 13K sold

For comparison's sake, in 2010 there were 81,371 Camaros sold, compared to 73,716 Mustangs. That's just one year.

Well that's what happens over here. The Camaro and Mustang are icons for many here. The new Camaro is incredible looking (driving and interior wise though...) and really hearkens back to the muscle car from the late 60's, and the new 5.0 let alone Boss is good looking and has GREAT performance to match. Just like the EVO and STI, the 370z is slipping into higher and higher price ranges, and it feels like you're not getting an improvement with the increase of cost. That's what hurt the EVO the most for example, and I'm assuming that's what's going on with the Z unfortunately.

IIRC, the 350z stripped down was around 27k when launched. A price that's much more affordable, and it had solid performance for said price. It's sad to see manufacturers do this to themselves. At ~40k, the 370z is in Boss territory which will humiliate it. Even a lowly GT can compete with it.

This is why that as long if something catastrophic doesn't happen to the final version, that FR-S and Subie coupe will fly off of lots. They should have a good price, that's fun to drive (not stellar performance obviously), with killer looks. You'll see tons of these on the roads. Especially if TRD/Gazoo picks up the slack with the performance parts. These cars will get a ton of aftermarket support as well to help.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Just like the EVO and STI, the 370z is slipping into higher and higher price ranges, and it feels like you're not getting an improvement with the increase of cost. That's what hurt the EVO the most for example, and I'm assuming that's what's going on with the Z unfortunately.

Absolutely wrong there. The 370Z is a massive improvement over the 350Z. No one can say otherwise with a straight face. Simply a complete overhaul inside and out - the interior especially is just awesome.

IIRC, the 350z stripped down was around 27k when launched. A price that's much more affordable, and it had solid performance for said price. It's sad to see manufacturers do this to themselves. At ~40k, the 370z is in Boss territory which will humiliate it. Even a lowly GT can compete with it.

A base 370Z is around the same price range, at $28K. It's also not meant to be purely for drag racing. It is a much more agile and poised machine than a Mustang.

 

[Ovid]

2002 13,253
2003 36,728
2004 30,690
2005 27,278
2006 24,635
2007 18,957
2008 10,337

The 2002 cars were model year 2003s.

Interesting.

So sales peaked in the second year. I would've would've never though that.

I guess that's why the sticker price jumped 10G's (fully loaded) for the revamp. If it keeps on this downward trend they may have to discontinue it, AGAIN

 

[J-Rzez]

Absolutely wrong there. The 370Z is a massive improvement over the 350Z. No one can say otherwise with a straight face. Simply a complete overhaul inside and out - the interior especially is just awesome.

A base 370Z is around the same price range, at $28K. It's also not meant to be purely for drag racing. It is a much more agile and poised machine than a Mustang.

I'd have to check it out then. My friend is a big Z fan and told me that, plus when I read about them that's the idea I got as well. I know the interior stepped up a bit. But 40k is a lot for one of those. Like I said, that's close to Boss territory which would shred it to pieces in a straight line and on a real race track. Interior is def better on the Z though, but Ford really stepped it up there. Love the blue on the Z.

Wonder how the new mustang is going to turn out since it's basically confirmed to have an IRS, and it is going to be it's 50th anniversary soon, which is when the new model is supposed to hit.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

Absolutely wrong there. The 370Z is a massive improvement over the 350Z. No one can say otherwise with a straight face. Simply a complete overhaul inside and out - the interior especially is just awesome.
.

I still maintain that although it is a better car in every way except the looks department.

Albeit I am a huge fan of simple car designs with alot of straight lines. Too much zigzags and curves for me on the 370Z.

*puts on flame shield*

 

[JackEtc]

I still maintain that although it is a better car in every way except the looks department.

Albeit I am a huge fan of simple car designs with alot of straight lines. Too much zigzags and curves for me on the 370Z.

*puts on flame shield*

Having never seen the interior of either, I'll have to agree with you. The 350Z is so sexy.

 

[Mobius 1]

Blasted wheel locks.

Went to friends today to do a brake job on our cars. When it was my turn, we find the dealership overtorqued my rear passenger wheel lock and we could not remove it even with herculean efforts. By then everything was closed and no help at hand.

If you have or are considering installing wheel locks, be specific when having someone work on your wheel to not fucking overtorque them.

If I had a puncture in the middle of nowhere, I'd be pretty hosed today.

 

[MetalFearSolid]

I am considering getting either an Acura TL 2004-2006, 2004-2006 Mazda Rx-8, or Mitsubishi Lancer 2008-09..any facts and problems I need to be aware about...

Also recommend other cars that are good, have little problems and don't eat gas that much I know I said Mazda Rx-8 but that is one of the big concerns I have with it..

 

[AlphaSnake]

Interesting.

So sales peaked in the second year. I would've would've never though that.

I guess that's why the sticker price jumped 10G's (fully loaded) for the revamp. If it keeps on this downward trend they may have to discontinue it, AGAIN

They peaked the first year, really. The 350Z came out in the last 3 months of 2002. Like I said, in 2002 the car was sold as a 2003 already.