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[Angry Grimace]

Wait wat? I feel like this may be for the "discuss American quirks" thread.

Is normal behaviour among dealers to hike prices by themselves just because a car is highly sought? Over here any difference over €3000 on a similarly priced vehicle would raise some serious eyebrows. Dealers basically compete with each other increasing the extras while keeping the MSRP. If they dare to go €1 above the suggested price without throwing at least some extra floormats, you can just walk into another dealer and get a better offer.

It isn't impossible to find a Boss at MSRP or even lower, but it's very difficult to do without having some kind of relationship with the dealer or living in the sticks. The answer is basically that Ford doesn't make enough of them to meet demand either on purpose or to be conservative. Ironically, Bosses are often more expensive or equal to the GT500.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Wait wat? I feel like this may be for the "discuss American quirks" thread.

Is normal behaviour among dealers to hike prices by themselves just because a car is highly sought? Over here any difference over €3000 on a similarly priced vehicle would raise some serious eyebrows. Dealers basically compete with each other increasing the extras while keeping the MSRP. If they dare to go €1 above the suggested price without throwing at least some extra floormats, you can just walk into another dealer and get a better offer.

That's not an American quirk, that's an example of free market, and it will happen in any country with a free market. When a dealership gets a rare car they can jack up the price and let it sit there until some fool comes along a buys it. There's no hurry to move it like with a common car, like a Mustang GT, or a Focus. And there's also no competition, because not every dealership on the block is going to get a GT500 or Boss, so a customer can't walk into a another dealership and get a better deal. And like OuterWorldVoice said, some dealerships will collude with others to keep the price high, for their own profits and to show the manufacturer that they can move cars for higher prices, which in turn will net them more rare cars in the future.

 

[J-Rzez]

Good luck finding a Boss for less than $50,000. If you live in any kind of major metropolis, basically every dealer has gone nuts with "market adjustments."

$41,580 for a 2012 sitting in a dealership in the city I used to live in, aka, sticker. Though I wouldn't buy it because it's a 2012 and I'd want the 2013 (since it's updated interior/exterior wise), and it's actually missing one of the critical options I'd want for it. And it's orange... lol. I'd want the 2013 also because I didn't like any of the colors really. I thought I'd like it in white, but didn't when I saw it. I'd want a 2013 in Grabber Blue, School Bus Yellow, or maybe "Gotta Have it Green" (I'd have to see that in person).

Most of the time in my searching though it was the Leguna Seca model that the dealers are marking up I've found, some up to $90,000 which is GT-R territory so no ty. But some "regular" bosses have been marked up a couple grand here and there.

 

[Halvie]

e "Gotta Have it Green" (I'd have to see that in person).

Green could be nice. Hardly see any green cars anymore.

 

[Angry Grimace]

$41,580 for a 2012 sitting in a dealership in the city I used to live in, aka, sticker. Though I wouldn't buy it because it's a 2012 and I'd want the 2013 (since it's updated interior/exterior wise), and it's actually missing one of the critical options I'd want for it. And it's orange... lol. I'd want the 2013 also because I didn't like any of the colors really. I thought I'd like it in white, but didn't when I saw it. I'd want a 2013 in Grabber Blue, School Bus Yellow, or maybe "Gotta Have it Green" (I'd have to see that in person).

Most of the time in my searching though it was the Leguna Seca model that the dealers are marking up I've found, some up to $90,000 which is GT-R territory so no ty. But some "regular" bosses have been marked up a couple grand here and there.

The new paint scheme I saw somewhere looks so much better than the 2012. The 2012 looks so Boy Racer I would refuse to drive it over just getting a GT.

Green could be nice. Hardly see any green cars anymore.

I want to see a Dodge Challenger in Highland Green (the Bullitt Mustang color). I don't know why that's not an available option on Mustangs, either.

This is weird, why are we talking about non European luxury sleds in this thread?

 

[Halvie]

I want to see a Dodge Challenger in Highland Green (the Bullitt Mustang color).

Had no idea that was even an option. Would be right at the top of my list if I was shopping for a challenger.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Had no idea that was even an option. Would be right at the top of my list if I was shopping for a challenger.

It isn't. That's what I'm saying. It's not an option for Mustangs (or any other Ford) either. It only gets put out when they release Bullitt Mustangs (and I feel fairly certain there will be yet another one once this car gets long in the tooth)

 

[J-Rzez]

The new paint scheme I saw somewhere looks so much better than the 2012. The 2012 looks so Boy Racer I would refuse to drive it over just getting a GT.

The "1970 Boss" scheme just looks divine, and it's my favorite mustang out of them all (Shelby not included). I didn't like the C-stripes on the 2012, nor the colors available in general, and the 2013 is addressing them. I'll be taking a good hard look and test drive of one that's for sure.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The "1970 Boss" scheme just looks divine, and it's my favorite mustang out of them all (Shelby not included). I didn't like the C-stripes on the 2012, nor the colors available in general, and the 2013 is addressing them. I'll be taking a good hard look and test drive of one that's for sure.

I will say that unless you're tracking it, I can't say I quite understand why someone would want a Boss. It's a good 8K more than a well equipped GT premium.

 

[twinturbo2]

US-spec Abarth brochure.

http://www.fiatusa.com/abarth/pdf/abarth_ebrochure.pdf

 

[J-Rzez]

I will say that unless you're tracking it, I can't say I quite understand why someone would want a Boss. It's a good 8K more than a well equipped GT premium.

I track cars. Not all the time anymore, but I still get out with a few regional clubs for track days a couple times a year. Plus, I appreciate the little things on even mundane daily commutes.

 

[weekend_warrior]

I will say that unless you're tracking it, I can't say I quite understand why someone would want a Boss. It's a good 8K more than a well equipped GT premium.

Because if he got a GT every time he looked at it he'd think "Goddammit I wish I got the Boss." That's how it works, you're always disappointed when you get the worse version. Like buying a regular Corvette, I don't care if you tune it up to 700hp, still not a Z06.

 

[ameratsu]

US-spec Abarth brochure.

http://www.fiatusa.com/abarth/pdf/abarth_ebrochure.pdf

Sort of want. But lol @ "high flow air intake system with abarth stylized airbox graphics".

edit: I am also not a fan of the dual exhaust look on 4cyl motors.

 

[J-Rzez]

Because if he got a GT every time he looked at it he'd think "Goddammit I wish I got the Boss." That's how it works, you're always disappointed when you get the worse version. Like buying a regular Corvette, I don't care if you tune it up to 700hp, still not a Z06.

That holds true most of the time too. Also, I wouldn't be able to get my license plate "Like A" as well.

 

[TylerD]

My boss's boss just got a 2008 GT 500. I told my coworker that let me know that he should have got the 650 hp GT 500 that is coming next year. Then I walk out and see the damn thing and it is a Super Snake 725 hp...

I need to get a ride in that thing.

This is the same guy that took his 2007 GT with heavy exterior mods but was still stock under the hood to a shop to have some engine bits polished. They took it out for a joy ride and blew his engine then shipped it to Eagle Performance and basically had a race engine built for him with forged internals that is rated at 1200 hp but he runs around with a tune at 600 hp.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Because if he got a GT every time he looked at it he'd think "Goddammit I wish I got the Boss." That's how it works, you're always disappointed when you get the worse version. Like buying a regular Corvette, I don't care if you tune it up to 700hp, still not a Z06.

That only really makes sense if $10,000 is meaningless to you. The fact I *could* afford a Boss doesn't mean my wife wouldn't tell me to go fuck myself. "But honey, it has 30 more horsepower and a nicer suspension, and a worse interior =V"

 

[ascii42]

That only really makes sense if $10,000 is meaningless to you. The fact I *could* afford a Boss doesn't mean my wife wouldn't tell me to go fuck myself. "But honey, it has 30 more horsepower and a nicer suspension, and a worse interior =V"

Not to mention, no rear seats, at least in the Leguna Seca version.

 

[J-Rzez]

That only really makes sense if $10,000 is meaningless to you. The fact I *could* afford a Boss doesn't mean my wife wouldn't tell me to go fuck myself. "But honey, it has 30 more horsepower and a nicer suspension, and a worse interior =V"

Just buy her a new Dyson, a Coach purse or two, and a Kitchen Aid mixer in her fav color, you can buy what you want then. At least that's how it works for me. And Recaro seats are never "worse".

 

[reilo]

Yo Alpha/Dreams, looks like we got an accessory to purchase along with the CX-16:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/23/officine-autodromo-places-the-spirit-of-vintage-italian-racing-o/

So fly.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Just buy her a new Dyson, a Coach purse or two, and a Kitchen Aid mixer in her fav color, you can buy what you want then. At least that's how it works for me. And Recaro seats are never "worse".

They can be for some people. I love Recaros but depending on the design, they can be rather annoying for anything more than short distances.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Just buy her a new Dyson, a Coach purse or two, and a Kitchen Aid mixer in her fav color, you can buy what you want then. At least that's how it works for me. And Recaro seats are never "worse".

Ironically, we already own all of those: our Dyson broke, I got her a Coach purse and wallet a few years back and I have a circa 1977 Kitchen Aid mixer, but she doesn't cook, I do. :lol

I still think racing seats are less comfortable for driving around in. They're just better for racing.

 

[AlphaSnake]

They can be for some people. I love Recaros but depending on the design, they can be rather annoying for anything more than short distances.

In my not so humble opinion, people who put Recaro or Bride seats on a daily driver are fucking idiots.

Although I think Bride now makes an automatically adjustable and heated racing seat, which is cool.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

In my not so humble opinion, people who put Recaro or Bride seats on a daily driver are fucking idiots.

Although I think Bride now makes an automatically adjustable and heated racing seat, which is cool.

Depends on the Recaros. There are some amazing reclining ones that feel like heaven.

I had both Pole Positions and SPG's. SPG's were bad for me, Pole Positions were actually really comfortable unless you were in them for more than 2 hours. Stock seats were best though.

It is kind of a bad idea though because they're so easy to steal without seat locks. But they look amazing and the way they grip you is confidence-inspiring.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Depends on the Recaros. There are some amazing reclining ones that feel like heaven.

I had both Pole Positions and SPG's. SPG's were bad for me, Pole Positions were actually really comfortable unless you were in them for more than 2 hours. Stock seats were best though.

It is kind of a bad idea though because they're so easy to steal without seat locks. But they look amazing and the way they grip you is confidence-inspiring.

This is why I love my girlfriend's 335 Coupe. It has adjustable bolsters for BOTH seats, you can lock yourself into the seat and it simply feels so sublime. The E60 BMW M5 has automatic bolsters that hug you with every turn...oddly enough the M6 doesn't. $18K pricier, yet lacking a very sporty feature.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

This is why I love my girlfriend's 335 Coupe. It has adjustable bolsters for BOTH seats, you can lock yourself into the seat and it simply feels so sublime. The E60 BMW M5 has automatic bolsters that hug you with every turn...oddly enough the M6 doesn't. $18K pricier, yet lacking a very sporty feature.

The E60 M5 has some of the greatest seats in a car, EVER. So comfortable. dat lumbar support... M6 is a piece of shit, I'm not surprised it lacks something like the M5 seats.

 

[AlphaSnake]

The E60 M5 has some of the greatest seats in a car, EVER. So comfortable. dat lumbar support... M6 is a piece of shit, I'm not surprised it lacks something like the M5 seats.

Hey. HEY!!! HEY!!!! Don't call the M6 a piece of shit. I love that car. My brother has his as a daily, and it's a great vehicle. Fast as fuck. Comfortable. Handles great. Beautiful interior.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Hey. HEY!!! HEY!!!! Don't call the M6 a piece of shit. I love that car. My brother has his as a daily, and it's a great vehicle. Fast as fuck. Comfortable. Handles great. Beautiful interior.

Costs 20k+ more than an M5, doesn't look nearly as good (it's the McDonalds-addicted Down Syndrome older brother M-car)... it doesn't even grow on you like a 1-series. It's just disgusting. It's like BMW said 'hmm, let's stuff the guts of the M5 into an obese, hideous coupe chassis and see if we can actually sucker people into buying it by making it one number higher than the M5... SUCCESS!'

Tell your brother to sell that shit and buy something that doesn't look like a 70 year old's end-life crisis. ;P

 

[AlphaSnake]

Costs 20k+ more than an M5, doesn't look nearly as good (it's the McDonalds-addicted Down Syndrome older brother M-car)... it doesn't even grow on you like a 1-series. It's just disgusting. It's like BMW said 'hmm, let's stuff the guts of the M5 into an obese, hideous coupe chassis and see if we can actually sucker people into buying it by making it one number higher than the M5... SUCCESS!'

Tell your brother to sell that shit and buy something that doesn't look like a 70 year old's end-life crisis. ;P

You're overreaching. In fact, most people would say the same about the E60 M5 - that it's ugly and all. He was one of the first people to have the car in the US, and 6+ years later it still gets tons of looks. And don't worry about my brother, he's got an Audi R8 V10 as well.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

A few pics from LA

IMGP8087 by classypenguin, on Flickr

IMGP7999 by classypenguin, on Flickr

IMGP8053 by classypenguin, on Flickr

IMGP8063 by classypenguin, on Flickr

IMGP8198 by classypenguin, on Flickr

IMGP8206 by classypenguin, on Flickr

IMGP8224 by classypenguin, on Flickr

Hey look, it's the future and it's bland!


IMGP8222 by classypenguin, on Flickr

IMGP8219 by classypenguin, on Flickr

 

[ameratsu]

Just went and saw Senna. I know it came out last year but deserves a mention for those who haven't seen it yet. Entertaining and emotional even to someone like me with no F1 knowledge whatsoever.

 

[enzo_gt]

Toyobaru get's officially announced; officially named GT 86; officially ugly beyond belief.

I was going to embed an image but I decided not to, for the sake of the children.

 

[Stinkles]

Toyobaru get's officially announced; officially named GT 86; officially ugly beyond belief.

I was going to embed an image but I decided not to, for the sake of the children.

I HAVE BRAIN DAMAGE!!!!1

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I HAVE BRAIN DAMAGE!!!!1

http://i.imgur.com/04pDx.jpg[/IM][/QUOTE]

it's a tacky mod fan's wet dream.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It just looks like a Celica mated with a Hyundai. Ugly, imo.

 

[Stinkles]

it's a tacky mod fan's wet dream.

It looks like a kid with brain damage tried to redesign a z car but got it mixed up with a Celica in his brain.

 

[AlphaSnake]

151lbs of torque...

Spoiler

AT 6600RPM!

Holy shit. Expect people to complain on end about how shitty this car's fuel efficiency is, cannot wait to see that awful torque curve on a dyno. This is the Mazda RX8 all over again...but uglier with an even cheaper interior. I've been saying it for a long time, this car is an epic fail from nearly every conceivable way - but I somehow doubt journos are going to shit on it, because they'd rather encourage Toyota to bring out product like this in hopes it'll pave the way for a powerful version.

Regardless, this is biblicaly slow and boring and ugly...it should've never had less than 240-250HP. Bottomline.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't even understand why they don't just actually call it the Celica, because "Celica" very accurately describes what I'm looking at.

 

[reilo]

151lbs of torque...

Spoiler

AT 6600RPM!

Holy shit. Expect people to complain on end about how shitty this car's fuel efficiency is, cannot wait to see that awful torque curve on a dyno. This is the Mazda RX8 all over again...but uglier with an even cheaper interior. I've been saying it for a long time, this car is an epic fail from nearly every conceivable way - but I somehow doubt journos are going to shit on it, because they'd rather encourage Toyota to bring out product like this in hopes it'll pave the way for a powerful version.

Regardless, this is biblicaly slow and boring and ugly...it should've never had less than 240-250HP. Bottomline.

$25k!

 

[Halvie]

151lbs of torque...

Spoiler

AT 6600RPM!

Holy shit. Expect people to complain on end about how shitty this car's fuel efficiency is, cannot wait to see that awful torque curve on a dyno. This is the Mazda RX8 all over again...but uglier with an even cheaper interior. I've been saying it for a long time, this car is an epic fail from nearly every conceivable way - but I somehow doubt journos are going to shit on it, because they'd rather encourage Toyota to bring out product like this in hopes it'll pave the way for a powerful version.

Regardless, this is biblicaly slow and boring and ugly...it should've never had less than 240-250HP. Bottomline.

Who thinks an e60 m5 is ugly? What cars do they consider to be good looking...?

Interior doesn't look all that bad to me.

This however...

ick

 

[AlphaSnake]

On a much, much lighter note...

I went with my mom to Volvo today (she's always wanted one). She traded in her 2009 Rabbit/Golf and got a loaded Volvo S60 T5. What a terrific little car. It's proportioned just right. The interior is wonderful and user interface is very intuitive and easy to use. The air-con is fantastic. And the audio system is 'holy shit' surprising...I was expecting to be underwhelmed but it legitimately bumps and the 6-band equalizer makes fine tuning treble, bass, and mids very easy, as well as helping out the overall quality of the audio.

I love this little motor too. 2.5L I5 - same as the VW's...except it's turbocharged. This means 250HP and 295lbs of TQ on a 3500lb car. You'll see torque output advertised as 265HP...but this car has a legitimate "sport mode", so when you slide over the gear lever to the sport setting, you get a boost of power to 295lbs of TQ. It feels absolutely superb and very rewarding. The steering is also very sturdy, and this does not have the dynamic chassis package which makes the car handle better...but even so this is a solid riding car, very planted, and very confident.

The only complaint I have is that it comes equipped with runflats...so the ride quality suffers quite a bit. I'd much rather they offer standard tires + donut spare. But they don't...and at least Volvo's roadside assistance is the 2nd best in the industry (only Benz offers unlimited lifetime roadside). None the less, I spent practically the entire day with this car and I am smitten. I really wished that my dealer had this exact car but with the bixenon projector headlights, unfortunately they didn't -- though hopefully one day I'll retrofit them to the car.

So yeah, if you're in the market for a sedan, definitely consider the Volvo S60. I also drove the R-Design S60 T6 AWD (325HP) - beastly car. These are not your grandpa's Volvos, guys. Not at all.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

151lbs of torque...

Spoiler

AT 6600RPM!

Holy shit. Expect people to complain on end about how shitty this car's fuel efficiency is, cannot wait to see that awful torque curve on a dyno. This is the Mazda RX8 all over again...but uglier with an even cheaper interior. I've been saying it for a long time, this car is an epic fail from nearly every conceivable way - but I somehow doubt journos are going to shit on it, because they'd rather encourage Toyota to bring out product like this in hopes it'll pave the way for a powerful version.

Regardless, this is biblicaly slow and boring and ugly...it should've never had less than 240-250HP. Bottomline.

I don't know about the RX8, but the S2000 had a flat torque curve. Sure it isn't a lot of torque, but in a light ass car with good gearing, torque isn't important when you have tons of high RPM power and your relative torque curve is flat.

Not sure what the FT86 will offer over an S2000, though in terms of performance other than extra seats and WAYYYY better aerodynamics. FT86 needs a turbocharger BADLY. With 300-400 whp the FT86 could be an absolute beast, that coefficient of drag is INSANE!

The Subaru version is going to be SO much better AND look so much better.

 

[Halvie]

On a much, much lighter note...

I went with my mom to Volvo today (she's always wanted one). She traded in her 2009 Rabbit/Golf and got a loaded Volvo S60 T5. What a terrific little car. It's proportioned just right. The interior is wonderful and user interface is very intuitive and easy to use. The air-con is fantastic. And the audio system is 'holy shit' surprising...I was expecting to be underwhelmed but it legitimately bumps and the 6-band equalizer makes fine tuning treble, bass, and mids very easy, as well as helping out the overall quality of the audio.

I love this little motor too. 2.5L I5 - same as the VW's...except it's turbocharged. This means 250HP and 295lbs of TQ on a 3500lb car. You'll see torque output advertised as 265HP...but this car has a legitimate "sport mode", so when you slide over the gear lever to the sport setting, you get a boost of power to 295lbs of TQ. It feels absolutely superb and very rewarding. The steering is also very sturdy, and this does not have the dynamic chassis package which makes the car handle better...but even so this is a solid riding car, very planted, and very confident.

The only complaint I have is that it comes equipped with runflats...so the ride quality suffers quite a bit. I'd much rather they offer standard tires + donut spare. But they don't...and at least Volvo's roadside assistance is the 2nd best in the industry (only Benz offers unlimited lifetime roadside). None the less, I spent practically the entire day with this car and I am smitten. I really wished that my dealer had this exact car but with the bixenon projector headlights, unfortunately they didn't -- though hopefully one day I'll retrofit them to the car.

So yeah, if you're in the market for a sedan, definitely consider the Volvo S60. I also drove the R-Design S60 T6 AWD (325HP) - beastly car. These are not your grandpa's Volvos, guys. Not at all.

Now if VW only got their head out of their fucking asses and put a detuned version of the rs 2.5t in the next R/GTI/TT-S/Something...

diesel and 2.0t with a manifold cast into the head....

Liking a couple of the new volvos. Good buy++

Had a rented 2012 Sonata while my car was in the shop. Kinda shocked that it wasn't as horrible as I would have thought. Ugly interior and all, but thought it was a v6 till I looked up the engine range. Dual scroll k04 is pretty nice. Insta-spool.

 

[AlphaSnake]

$25k!

For literally $2K more, you get a base model brand new 370Z or a used loaded 370Z. Why in God's name would anyone be stupid enough to buy this car?

 

[AlphaSnake]

Now if VW only got their head out of their fucking asses and put a detuned version of the rs 2.5t in the next R/GTI/TT-S/Something...

diesel and 2.0t with a manifold cast into the head....

Liking a couple of the new volvos. Good buy++

Hell yeah, that 2.0T they use now isn't exactly a favorite of mine. It lacks a lot in refinement still. I agree that 2.5T VAG has now would be suitable across a number of their cars.

 

[reilo]

For literally $2K more, you get a base model brand new 370Z or a used loaded 370Z. Why in God's name would anyone be stupid enough to buy this car?

Or for $2-3k more you can get a low mileage 328i coupe that's still under factory warranty. Apples-and-oranges, I know, but you're talking about getting best-in-class luxury.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Or for $2-3k more you can get a low mileage 328i coupe that's still under factory warranty. Apples-and-oranges, I know, but you're talking about getting best-in-class luxury.

I mean hey...if someone wants a small RWD, lightweight 6MT coupe...128i is very quick with that MT, actually. 240HP goes quite a bit with that thing - 98MPH 1/4 traps, easy low 14-second car. Used 128i would be around that price range with full CPO warranty like you said.

This is simply not the car Toyota needed in their line up.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

I mean hey...if someone wants a small RWD, lightweight 6MT coupe...128i is very quick with that MT, actually. 240HP goes quite a bit with that thing - 98MPH 1/4 traps, easy low 14-second car. Used 128i would be around that price range with full CPO warranty like you said.

This is simply not the car Toyota needed in their line up.

For a bit more I'd just take a 135i, which would blow away the GT86.

Subaru BRZ could be a big seller if they don't make the boneheaded Toyota mistakes (high price, low bang for the buck.)

 

[Halvie]

I mean hey...if someone wants a small RWD, lightweight 6MT coupe...128i is very quick with that MT, actually. 240HP goes quite a bit with that thing - 98MPH 1/4 traps, easy low 14-second car. Used 128i would be around that price range with full CPO warranty like you said.

This is simply not the car Toyota needed in their line up.

the new engine is going to be outstanding imo.

300whp from beta tune...

lol @ tt-s and tt. Who would buy a tt other than rs now? They need to do something about that.

someone want to buy volk center caps please...

 

[reilo]

I mean hey...if someone wants a small RWD, lightweight 6MT coupe...128i is very quick with that MT, actually. 240HP goes quite a bit with that thing - 98MPH 1/4 traps, easy low 14-second car. Used 128i would be around that price range with full CPO warranty like you said.

This is simply not the car Toyota needed in their line up.

Shit, I foolishly didn't even think of the 128i. That's an even better comparison.

 

[purg3]

yikes, the rear is hideous.