says the guy with bose speakers in his 370z. lol
anyways, im going wheeling tomorrow with the car club im in. ill post pics/video when i get some time
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The Automotive Discussion Thread
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says the guy with bose speakers in his 370z. lol
anyways, im going wheeling tomorrow with the car club im in. ill post pics/video when i get some time
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
There's nothing wrong with the Bose in the 370Z - it's not as incredible as what my Audi has, but it doesn't need to be in a car that's that small with a cabin that isn't separate from the trunk. And the navigation is actually really, really good in it - from controls to user interface. I don't even understand what you're trying to say. The 370Z's interior absolutely shits on this from looks to quality of materials.
The difference between the BRZ's navi and the Z's is that Nissan has a very nice proprietary design that is used in all of their luxury cars - including a touch screen, steering controls, a scrolling wheel, and directional buttons on the wheel - giving you multiple ways to use the system, as well as a significantly enhanced aesthetic center console. The Subaru has what looks like a generic touch screen navi/headunit combo that many Scion owners pick up from eBay or Best Buy, regardless...so Subaru saved them the trouble.
What Audi did u pick up?
The bose setup in the 370z is a laugh (and the 350z for that matter), any one who knows car audio will tell you that. Actually 370z owners (atleast on 370z and 350z forums) frown upon the setup. I replaced my speakers and it was worlds better than what the bose put out. And I didn't have to spend 800 bucks.
I just don't get why you are saying replace the audio on the 86's setup, But not on the 370z when it has the same exact cabin style. Neither of us have heard it. Regardless, both stock systems will be worse than what you could buy on the cheap.
As far as the navigation, never cared for it when i have my phone. Google maps > * But that didn't really have anything to do with my point.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I've had a 2005 A6 4.2 for years now, that I'll hopefully be trading in for a 2008 4.2 on Sunday. I love the car. The new ones are superb, but the lease programs are insane with lousy residuals.
Because it doesn't need to be mentioned as a "Premium" option by Subaru, simply by looking at what "navigation" they're offering, I can guarantee that their no-name 8-speaker stereo will be far worse than a Bose in a Z. It's not like they're adding a revised center console stack, a quality interface, and the like. They're going to end up charging more for the Subaru vs. Scion here just because of tiny little things that most people would've preferred to add in on their own. That would make the Scion the preferable choice, in addition to being cheaper...because again, there is no advantage with going Subaru's way, since it doesn't offer an enhanced look to the interior - it's a simple double-din console that can be easily swapped around. The Z offers you a clean interface from an Infiniti with tons of controls and options...the Subaru will likely have something no better than a Jensen.
Also, I know a thing or two about audio. I'm very picky about sound and sound quality. And I know the Bose isn't the best in the 370Z, shit...I even know that Bose in our Zs isn't even a Bose. It's a Clarion - surprise! The point is that I have Bose in my car only because it came with the navi, and that navi simply completes the interior. I hate using shitty phone GPS systems - they're tiny, lose service frequently, and look ugly plastered on your windshield. And I don't even listen to the music that loud in my 370Z - so the point is that Subaru's "Premium" offerings are pointless.
Though, if you are crafty, you can actually fine tune the Bose with your iPod by messing with the equalizer and getting some much needed clarity out of the unit on your own like I have.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Lol? Supercharging is more reliable than turbo and will build power more linearly. Depending on what kind of blower they use, it could be really awesome. If they use a roots blower it'd gain a fuckload of torque.
I'd love to see it supercharged. It'd be a pulley upgrade and minor bolt-ons + tune away from 300+ whp.
Not laughing at supercharging, laughing at Toyota still going for a supercharger when the target market for this car probably doesn't know anything other than turbochargers. I haven't followed the engine layout of the Toyobaru but I assume they're either looking at a supercharger for size constraints, or they don't want to be too Subaru and throw a hood scoop on.
I don't know where you live but I have 4G on my phone and get good GPS service on my google maps as well, IMO I find it better than a dedicated GPS most of the time since its faster.
I find with dealer navigation systems they can be either really bad sometimes, probably model/brand specific. Although the merits of having a clean looking interior is good as well it's not as if you can't put effort into something like a custom mount for a phone/tablet.
Oh wow, yeah I gotta get rid of those then. Is it worth maybe getting some better springs as well? If so, any suggestions?
That also reminds me, would the car be able to be lowered with the yellows? The car already is slightly lowered, and I sort of like the look.
Get KW v1/v2/v3 if you live in an area that sees a lot of snow and salt. h&r cup kit is pretty nice too if you just want a mild drop.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
New York City. Traveling outside of it proved that no matter what carrier you have, at any point in time you'll hit a dead spot for at least 20 minutes.
Ok, back onto the FRS/BRZ/GT-86 discussion...
Suberu have confirmed pricing of USD 24,000 which is a great price point imo.
As far as I'm aware, no official pricing has been released on the GT-86 but every review I have read estimates it to be in the region of GBP 25k to GBP 28k without extras. That roughly translates to USD 40,000- USD 45,000!
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
I will refrain further until official pricing is out but that is ridiculous if true.
Also, lol at the Scion interior. Leagues worse than the GT-86/BRZ.
Suberu have confirmed pricing of USD 24,000 which is a great price point imo.
As far as I'm aware, no official pricing has been released on the GT-86 but every review I have read estimates it to be in the region of GBP 25k to GBP 28k without extras. That roughly translates to USD 40,000- USD 45,000!
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
I will refrain further until official pricing is out but that is ridiculous if true.
Also, lol at the Scion interior. Leagues worse than the GT-86/BRZ.
33-Hit-Combo
Member
As with ALL UK prices, you should know better than to simply stick it in to a currency converter.
LOL
I'd say they're trying to tow the advertising line for this car, but since it's Toyota who has turned into the 90's Buick of Japanese cars, I'm not so sure. Funny that they're already back peddling about FI, enthusiasts have been tearing them apart. 200hp for a sporty car in 2012 isn't going to cut it.
Once again after reading that, I hope they don't bring back a successor to the Supra and shit on it's name by doing something Toyota-like to a new version.
Just seeing that discussion on stereos, I wonder who's handling that for the 86 and BRZ. Subarus feature some of the worst sounding stereos in cars available. I'm not so sure about the stereo in Scions, never listened to one, never had an interest in the company line of cars. High end Lexus stereos are "OK" though.
I would rather pay another 1-2K in US and get a WRX over the BRZ personally.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Err, you're doing it wrong...
I understand the taxes need to be added to their list prices in the states + the fact that we in Europe pay more however it doesn't negate the fact that there's a fucking chasm in terms of pricing between the two.
Just viewing some of the reviews, the pricing has gone down like a well worked prossie.
33-Hit-Combo
Member
As you said in your other post, no official price yet. Don't bother playing with rates even if you consider other variables.
That said, £25k is indeed too much for what it is, even if it has godly handling. I don't dispute that.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Okay, what's your point. Some people want a Honda Accord with leather seats for that price, what does that have to do with the BRZ. I think there's going to be very little overlap between BRZ buyers and WRX buyers, they really are significantly different cars.
The engine is way far back against the firewall, packaging for a turbo would be pretty ugly. I much prefer they go with a supercharger, sure it doesn't have the efficiency of a turbo but it's much more responsive so it'd be a better fit for the car. Same deal as the Cooper S, or did they switch to a turbo from the orginal supercharger I can't remember.
Edit: Motortrend has a first drive up too:
Motortrend said:
Both are sporty cars from the same manufacturer targeting similar age ranges and price structures. I would prob be that target demographic and I would pick the WRX so in my eyes it is a valid comparison. Same reasons some people compare 370Z, STI, and EVO. All in the same range, yet the 370Z is a different car than the other two.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Fair enough, maybe I'm projecting. I would never consider a WRX, and I truly mean never--it's not what I want in a car at all. The BRZ, though, I'm pumped for.
I still think a good analogy would be someone cross-shopping a WRX or Miata, not really the same buyer.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Why are you telling him to put KW's on a Jetta? Really?
Turbo would be my choice if I were wanting to see the BRZ/86 upgraded. Not just for performance reasons, but also Turbos are easier to work with. Easier to adjust boost OTF either with a twist of a knob or push of a button. Plus, just love the rush of it spooling up and sounds. 
Dreams-Visions
Member
damn that interior. it just screams, "We didn't give 2 fucks. No, not even one."
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Turbo would be my choice if I were wanting to see the BRZ/86 upgraded. Not just for performance reasons, but also Turbos are easier to work with. Easier to adjust boost OTF either with a twist of a knob or push of a button. Plus, just love the rush of it spooling up and sounds.
Superchargers are far more reliable, with a much linear build of power, and gain power with ease: a simple belt + pulley swap and ECU tune will still net tons of power on a modern day SC.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Turbo would be my choice if I were wanting to see the BRZ/86 upgraded. Not just for performance reasons, but also Turbos are easier to work with. Easier to adjust boost OTF either with a twist of a knob or push of a button. Plus, just love the rush of it spooling up and sounds.
Turbos are NOT easier to work with. Have you ever installed one? Putting a turbo on an NA car can be a bitch.
Installing a supercharger is far more plug and play, and requires much less work both during the initial install and if you need to fix anything. Plus if an S/C blows, you just disconnect everything and go back to NA. If turbo blows? Well, worst case, you might be sucking in some turbine bits into your engine and be well on your way to a rebuild.
I'll take a Roots-type supercharger over turbo any day. Roots blowers = <3
Never installed one on a NA car, but have played with bigger turbos and larger hotsides on factory turbo cars. Only difference is that you need to do some exhaust work on a turbo obviously. You're still messing with often stand alones for fuel, fuel pumps, and ICs. Sometimes injectors need to be upgraded as well. So the only less work you need is the exhaust though you'd probably want to change that regardless. If either go it's a hassle depending on your tune, but yes, wheel bits can be troublesome heh.
Belt + Pulley vs. push of a button/twist of a knob.
Not downplaying superchargers, they get the job done and some prefer the linear power and sweet whine, myself I prefer the sweet spooling sound and the surge of power (never actually heard a centrifugal SC oddly enough over all the years in person though). Just a matter of taste.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Never installed one on a NA car, but have played with bigger turbos and larger hotsides on factory turbo cars. Only difference is that you need to do some exhaust work on a turbo obviously. You're still messing with often stand alones for fuel, fuel pumps, and ICs. Sometimes injectors need to be upgraded as well. So the only less work you need is the exhaust though you'd probably want to change that regardless. If either go it's a hassle depending on your tune, but yes, wheel bits can be troublesome heh.
Belt + Pulley vs. push of a button/twist of a knob.
Not downplaying superchargers, they get the job done and some prefer the linear power and sweet whine, myself I prefer the sweet spooling sound and the surge of power (never actually heard a centrifugal SC oddly enough over all the years in person though). Just a matter of taste.
Surge of power is the last thing you want on a track with a high RPM car like the GT86.
The more I think about it, the less a turbo makes sense for this car for track work. You have to be very careful with turbo to come close to a linear power-band. A turbo would be nice for daily driving, but on the track you want predictable power on a RWD, lightweight car.
Just like the S2000 is much easier to drive/more predictable in its handling with superchargers (you never see turbo'd guys on the track and that's just one of the reasons, unless it's a big tuning group like Spoon/Opera/etc), GT86 would be unwieldy with turbo powerbands, plus the reliability factor comes into play. Unless Subie did a turbo model from the factory, putting turbo on this car might not be the best option overall.
Also, that twist of the knob/push of a button might be the extra pounds of boost that blow your engine. Pulleys/belts of an S/C? The worst that can happen is they'll break, oh well.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Never installed one on a NA car, but have played with bigger turbos and larger hotsides on factory turbo cars. Only difference is that you need to do some exhaust work on a turbo obviously. You're still messing with often stand alones for fuel, fuel pumps, and ICs. Sometimes injectors need to be upgraded as well. So the only less work you need is the exhaust though you'd probably want to change that regardless. If either go it's a hassle depending on your tune, but yes, wheel bits can be troublesome heh.
Belt + Pulley vs. push of a button/twist of a knob.
Right. So pushing an OEM turbo is usually a pretty stupid idea, and is a surefire way to kill them or the fuel pump, and then later the motor. Superchargers on the other hand are much, much simple - and newer ones have wastegates (like all supercharged Audis) that are actually wasting a whole lot of gasses. This is why guys with new S4s are running tunes on their SCs (before belt + pulley) and seeing nearly 400WHP, simply by altering the way the SC functions. So superchargers are just as capable of being a 'flick of a switch' type mod where you get an increase in power.
I've always preferred SCs over turbos, personally.
To me, it screams we DO give 2 fucks about the driving experience and weight savings. Apparently the engine soundtrack is very nice in there too.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Right. So pushing an OEM turbo is usually a pretty stupid idea, and is a surefire way to kill them or the fuel pump, and then later the motor. Superchargers on the other hand are much, much simple - and newer ones have wastegates (like all supercharged Audis) that are actually wasting a whole lot of gasses. This is why guys with new S4s are running tunes on their SCs (before belt + pulley) and seeing nearly 400WHP, simply by altering the way the SC functions. So superchargers are just as capable of being a 'flick of a switch' type mod where you get an increase in power.
I've always preferred SCs over turbos, personally.
+1 SC > Turbo for me too. *high-five*
ClassyPenguin
Banned
I have a boner now.
They aren't anywhere close to 400awhp with just the tune.
edit: apparently they actually list whp number for awd cars...
b8 s4 stage 2 with good diver is high 11 @117ish. Nothing real mind blowing.
Anyone that would prefer the 3.0tfsi over the 2.5tfsi is fucking crazy.
A SC will wear on a motor not designed for FI just as much though. Also, I enjoy the rush, but modern turbos can be designed/used to spool up low and quick to smooth out delivery. A small twin-scroll set at low boost would be just fine most likely. It's just a preference unless you're talking major discrepancies. Sounds like Toyota will go SC due to TRD being pushing them out for some years now, and Suby will go Turbo since that's what they're mostly familiar with. That's when we'll finally see these cars start going their separate ways.
Right. So pushing an OEM turbo is usually a pretty stupid idea, and is a surefire way to kill them or the fuel pump, and then later the motor. Superchargers on the other hand are much, much simple - and newer ones have wastegates (like all supercharged Audis) that are actually wasting a whole lot of gasses. This is why guys with new S4s are running tunes on their SCs (before belt + pulley) and seeing nearly 400WHP, simply by altering the way the SC functions. So superchargers are just as capable of being a 'flick of a switch' type mod where you get an increase in power.
I've always preferred SCs over turbos, personally.
I'm pretty sure you can twist your motor up with poor SC tuning though as well. FI is FI, and if a motor's not built right or the tune isn't there you can detonate just as easily. Regardless, I always went the full route like I did on my Evo. Made sure to address fuel pump, ecu, plugs even when I just messed with the stock turbo. But then again, the 4G63 is a beast of a motor, up there with the 2JZ-GTE. I know newer Evo guys with the 4B11 were having some issues though.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/400241-Official-1-4th-Quarter-Mile-Drag-Strip-Times.
fastest 11.79 @116.3 mph
Hopefully the new rs4 will be a bit more impressive. I just don't find any of their non-turbo motors that great.
I'm not disputing the numbers, just the notion that 11-second quarter miles are considered slow these days :lol, which speaks to how far we have come in auto performance in just the past five years.
Totally agree. Almost too fast...if you can't afford one of them
Yeah Top Gear has me desensitized to 0-60 numbers as well.
33-Hit-Combo
Member
I reckon it'll be fine though. We shouldn't worry about a major manufacturer having durability issues of this nature, in the automotive industry we do test for that sort (I don't work for Toyota). Toyota did turbo the Yaris/Echo/Vitz of all vehicles afterall with slightly upgraded internals. Concerns should obviously apply to aftermarket though.
Didn't they say they were going to supercharge it over turbo anyway? I think I read something yesterday here on that.
image heavy post coming..
Took the FJ off roading this weekend with an FJ car group I'm in. And +1 Jeep.
no real action shots like the last time though. saw a bunch of tacos, land cruisers, one range rover, a few jeeps, and that small suzuki. no hummers or xterras.
Took the FJ off roading this weekend with an FJ car group I'm in. And +1 Jeep.
no real action shots like the last time though. saw a bunch of tacos, land cruisers, one range rover, a few jeeps, and that small suzuki. no hummers or xterras.
Well yeah, I'm sure it'll be designed to handle it. In fact, if you go by history if things weren't to change, Toyota is known to grossly overbuild their motors when FI is involved, like the 2JZ-GTE or 3S-GTE, more than any other mass production auto maker. What they would do today though I'm not sure.
It sounds like Toyota would go with Supercharging. TRD has been messing with them now for some time after all. I can't remember the last factory Super Charged sports car Toyota made though... was it the 80's MR2?
Subaru though is basically Turbo exclusive, I'd imagine they'd stick with that.
Nice pics there Bad_Boy. Trying to find my pics of when I took the Evo offroading.
Appreciate the pics! Would have you a clear idea on a comparison of a FJ and a JEEP? I know I definitely want one of those in the future but in terms of practicality and off-roading prowess which do you think is a better choice?
elrechazado
Banned
Hello thread, considering a 62 vw beetle as a 10 mile or so a day commuter vehicle. Any pitfalls to look out for, things one should know when considering?
Aren't those coilover kits and not just springs? I was thinking going with Koni Yellows and then some springs.
Care to expand, Boob? You've been pretty helpful so far.
I'm in the market for a new car since I totaled mine last Halloween weekend. Been looking for something between $18,000 and $25,000 that is not only stylish but fun to drive. The Fiat 500 and the Nissan cube have my attention as of today...should I turn it to other brands/models? What do you guys recommend?
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Nissan Juke. Please don't buy a Cube - it's neither stylish or fun.
Though, personally, for that budget you have a lot of great options pre-owned.
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