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The Banner Saga |OT| Here come the vikings!
- Thread starter Corto
- Start date
SJRB
Gold Member
Combat is actually the least interesting part for me, haha. I just love the caravan and the random [?] events that happen while traveling and setting up camp.
Well Broken Age still isn't avaliable, it's just a pre order.
Also going by my friends list everyone backed Broken Age so they don't need to buy it now
Thanks, I'll probably just buy it now.
im glad you will be one of us soon!
Resounding YES to both. The supplies mechanic and camping to recover injuries is a great risk/reward system. And the deliberately slow (and eerily beautiful) travel animation just adds to the effect. Tic Tac Tic Tac
UnrealEck
Member
It probably doesn't take a particularly high spec PC to run.
I'm playing it on a 13" Macbook Pro with an integrated graphics card (Intel HD Graphics 3000) and it runs it perfectly. The fans make some noise, but as I'm playing with headphones that's no problem for me. This should run on pretty much any modern PC/Mac.
minimumhippo
Member
I waited for 2 or 3 days I believe, she didn't show up. It appears you are safe just leaving rather than waste supplies sticking around. It plays in to the story more later.
25$ is too much for a beautiful and good 12h game ?
minimumhippo
Member
$25 is a steal for this game and this is coming from a person who very very rarely pays full price for a title.
It seems the game doesn't have cloud save syncing implemented. Find the save file on its directory on your desktop:
And manually copy it to the same folder/directory on your laptop. It seems you have a .png file (the save thumbnail) and the save file proper a .json file. Copy both just for good measure.
Oh dang. Thanks! Dropbox to the rescue.
Facism
Member
Guess I'll ask a few people I trust about the game and see what floats
SJRB
Gold Member
The game is 25% off over at gamefly if you use the voucher code on their frontpage.
Facism
Member
Ok ill give it a look
A bit early for that isn't it? A new chapter would basically be 'The Banner Saga 2' as I understand. Hopefully there's an expansion before that though.
jediyoshi
Member
Interestingly, running a save on a different machine looks like it changes the seed of the battle. So whereas an encounter is identical everytime you reload it, running it on a different computer changes enemy locations.
Still going on my no deaths run. Think I lost a vral character or two during events though, hard to keep track of their names.
Son of Cervantes
Member
Wait, this is coming to console? Or is your post just wishful thinking?
Events are the only way a character can die. When they fall in Battle they're just injured for a day or two and then they're fine. They can even fight while injured, with a small penalty to strength.
Oh I thought they were adding more stuff to this game.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
this game looks absolutely incredible. It reminds me of Lord of the Rings from 1978.
hobo gandalf is OP!!
hobo gandalf is OP!!
Pure wishful thinking
Son of Cervantes
Member
AuthenticM
Member
This looks fucking gorgeous. I'll be getting it once it hits GOG.
The game was originally conceived as a trilogy. I believe that higher backer tiers included all three games if/when they're released. Has any of that changed?
You have to click each unit individually I think. The tab key shows the armor/strength stats of every unit during combat.
Yeah, if you click on them it will give you the information. This game continues to be lovely.
charlequin
Banned
Originally conceived of as a single title, but split early on into three titles, all of which would be received by backers, as I understand it.
According to the KS page:
Currently kicking myself for not backing it (not so much for the price, but mostly because it's just a great game that I would love to have supported early on).
I do worry a bit about Hero-U, but that'll probably still turn out OK given it just barely met its goals rather than grossly exceeded them.
I played a few hours so far:
pros:
- art is fantastic in a very 90s cartoon/Sword in the Stone style
- music is great
- combat is pretty good
- story is unique
- I enjoy the caravan setup, and I enjoy that the actual characters you use show up at the front of the caravan as tiny little dudes. The environment really shows a sense of scale and how vast it is.
- the map design is neat, and it's sort of cool how it serves as a codex of the land when you click on names.
- I liked the "random" things that came up where you'd have to choose what to do with an unruly guy, though a few of the situations ended up unsatisfying
cons:
- story isn't really jiving with me. I care more about the characters and the fact that giants haven't really been explored in most media than whatever crap is going on in the story
- they throw a lot of fantasybabble at you and it's kind of overwhelming to look at that and actually understand what's going on until much later in the game.
- UI works, but it seems very finnicky. Part of that though leads into combat...
- combat is "works but...". Since it's very much like things like Final Fantasy Tactics or Fire Emblem, it's hard to not make comparisons to them. As such, I'm thinking of FE:Awakening and how it approaches multiple characters and control scheme and thinking that would be great here if it was implemented like that. It would be small changes but those would be
- turn order doesn't actually have to do with who moves more often, it has to do with who goes first in the queue. I find so far it's completely meaningless unless there are things later which allow you to jump forward in the queue in order to say help a character or whatever who's likely to die.
- experience is only given on kills, so whoever gets the deathblow gets counted. This isn't an issue at first, until everyone is level 3-5 and you have this one level 1 dude you're trying to level up but he gets smooshed by all the monsters if they even get close, or targeted if they're ranged.
- No manual saves. This bugs me the most. Most of these later complaints could be rectified if there was manual saves.
- No log of text. There are multiple situations where I've read something, only for the next screen to say something confusing, and I wished I could have gone back to reread what was said to regain context for the second screen.
- Characters (in this case characters you use) can randomly die without any sort of foreshadowing or warning out of combat. I find this unacceptable, but I realize it's part of the CYOA design. Which is fine, do your thing. But give me manual saves so I can go back and say no fuck you, I like that guy and want him to stay in my party. I would also have less of an issue if it didn't seem so random, or maybe the characters were developed more so that when an issue with that character did come up I know "this person is a pyromaniac, don't let her do anything with fire"
- map screen doesn't really show anything like which direction you're traveling in unless you opened it up semi-frequently to see path progress, so I found it hard to go "should I invest in supplies? do we have enough to reach.....where are we going again?" because I'd frequently forget the weird swedish sounding names for things until one of the characters mentioned it later or I'd later notice we're sort of kind of going in the direction of a city so it was probably that.
- when in the "big" conversations where it wasn't just a big popup, there doesn't seem to be any reason to not pick every conversation line available.
- speaking of conversations, in the "random" popups requiring you to pick an option, there really isn't much leadup or afterthought of what your choice ends up doing. I'd frequently go "man, that's not quite what I wanted" or "I wish there was another option here to say something else".
I mean I like it, and I will probably finish it, but christ I should not have this many issues in a 2013 game only after a few hours.
pros:
- art is fantastic in a very 90s cartoon/Sword in the Stone style
- music is great
- combat is pretty good
- story is unique
- I enjoy the caravan setup, and I enjoy that the actual characters you use show up at the front of the caravan as tiny little dudes. The environment really shows a sense of scale and how vast it is.
- the map design is neat, and it's sort of cool how it serves as a codex of the land when you click on names.
- I liked the "random" things that came up where you'd have to choose what to do with an unruly guy, though a few of the situations ended up unsatisfying
drunk causing trouble in the caravan ends up crying wolf then just laughs about it and runs off forever. hrm okay.
cons:
- story isn't really jiving with me. I care more about the characters and the fact that giants haven't really been explored in most media than whatever crap is going on in the story
- they throw a lot of fantasybabble at you and it's kind of overwhelming to look at that and actually understand what's going on until much later in the game.
- UI works, but it seems very finnicky. Part of that though leads into combat...
- combat is "works but...". Since it's very much like things like Final Fantasy Tactics or Fire Emblem, it's hard to not make comparisons to them. As such, I'm thinking of FE:Awakening and how it approaches multiple characters and control scheme and thinking that would be great here if it was implemented like that. It would be small changes but those would be
- Moving would highlight characters you can attack, and show a preview of possible damage done (in this case in terms of armor/health damage). if you don't think that will work out, just go back and move/attack something else instead.
- If you're not in range after moving, and a user has no support skills, skip the end turn prompt entirely. It just adds useless button clicks. Yeah of course I want to end the character's turn, it's not like I can do anything with him right now anyways! And it's not like I can just go back and take back my movement, so why even ask?
- FEA also shows an estimate of possible damage done to you, which would help illustrate to the user if something is a potential bad move or not. This is extremely helpful for later reasons
- turn order doesn't actually have to do with who moves more often, it has to do with who goes first in the queue. I find so far it's completely meaningless unless there are things later which allow you to jump forward in the queue in order to say help a character or whatever who's likely to die.
- experience is only given on kills, so whoever gets the deathblow gets counted. This isn't an issue at first, until everyone is level 3-5 and you have this one level 1 dude you're trying to level up but he gets smooshed by all the monsters if they even get close, or targeted if they're ranged.
- No manual saves. This bugs me the most. Most of these later complaints could be rectified if there was manual saves.
- No log of text. There are multiple situations where I've read something, only for the next screen to say something confusing, and I wished I could have gone back to reread what was said to regain context for the second screen.
- Characters (in this case characters you use) can randomly die without any sort of foreshadowing or warning out of combat. I find this unacceptable, but I realize it's part of the CYOA design. Which is fine, do your thing. But give me manual saves so I can go back and say no fuck you, I like that guy and want him to stay in my party. I would also have less of an issue if it didn't seem so random, or maybe the characters were developed more so that when an issue with that character did come up I know "this person is a pyromaniac, don't let her do anything with fire"
- map screen doesn't really show anything like which direction you're traveling in unless you opened it up semi-frequently to see path progress, so I found it hard to go "should I invest in supplies? do we have enough to reach.....where are we going again?" because I'd frequently forget the weird swedish sounding names for things until one of the characters mentioned it later or I'd later notice we're sort of kind of going in the direction of a city so it was probably that.
- when in the "big" conversations where it wasn't just a big popup, there doesn't seem to be any reason to not pick every conversation line available.
- speaking of conversations, in the "random" popups requiring you to pick an option, there really isn't much leadup or afterthought of what your choice ends up doing. I'd frequently go "man, that's not quite what I wanted" or "I wish there was another option here to say something else".
I mean I like it, and I will probably finish it, but christ I should not have this many issues in a 2013 game only after a few hours.
Haunted
Member
The outcome of that particular random questline can differ a lot depending on how you deal with the drunk guy.
He didn't run off in mine, I let the caravan punish him after the second transgression to sober him up and he reluctantly ended up reintegrating into the caravan -> raised morale.
This is already how it's done. When you mouse over a tile you can move to, it highlights every enemy in range after that move with potential health damage. Without that, I'd have trouble positioning my archers.
I do wish you could undo your movement at least once, I ended up misclicking sometimes because I was too used to Fire Emblem which lets you do that.
It's a very simple system. Damage on Strength/Health is Strength - Armour + 1 for each willpower spent (the little stars). Armour damage output is not calculated like that but inherent to each character (bottom stat in the heroes screen). The enemy has the same tactical opportunities you do, which makes the combat more interesting.
Turn order is absolutely key! You position your tanks and armour breakers first and finish them off with the finishers (those with high strength stats) last. Otherwise you end up with a bad first round where your high strength finishers can't do enough damage (yet) and you'd wish your armour breakers got in there first. Additionally, there's a support class later that allows you to modify your turn order mid-battle.
Yup, exactly the same as in Fire Emblem, positioning your weaker units to get the deathblow is key for leveling them up.
I agree, a text log would be nice.
It's fine to dislike this, but I really like how it's done here. It drives home the impression that you are not in control of everything, you are a person swept up in events far bigger than you, trying your best and making the best possible decision with the information that's available to you. Things won't always go as you imagined/hoped, and that's an important lesson to learn in the world of the Banner Saga - for Rook as a character, and you as a player.
I can tell that you're the kind of min/maxing player who really likes to go for the optimal outcome and a perfect playthrough (and there's nothing wrong with that), but that just means that this is up to personal preference. I get a kick out of letting my decisions stand and living with the consequences and wouldn't have it any other way. I think the designers intended the Banner Saga to be that kind of game.
How is this a con? That is how dialogue trees work.
Tying in with the aforementioned lack of control, this fits perfectly well with that theme. Wishing that you could say something else is a failure on the part of the writers, though I personally felt that they usually did a good job presenting a wide spectrum of possible options.
Player movement does highlight which enemy will be in attack range. Damage to armor is always indicated either through your special ability or your regular armor attack, the latter changing based on whether or not you add willpower to it. Damage to health is simply your strength (plus potential willpower) minus their armor, with both values constantly visible (and visible on every character in the fight if you hit the TAB key).
If you armor is high, the enemy is very likely to hit that first. If your health becomes vulnerable, they will go after that. They also focus on getting deathblows on your weaker people.
As far as how much damage the attack against you will do, you can see the hit to armor by checking the enemy's abilities, or if they're hitting your health by simply subtracting your armor from their strength, again.
It's not really meaningless. It's a good idea to put your tanks and general armor-breaking powerhouses in the front of the queue so that they can potentially take the brunt of the initial enemy attack and whittle them down for the kill. The game even tells you as much.
Enemies with low strength also have very little attack power. Send your lower-leveled people after those.
Manual saves inhibit precisely this save scumming on story decisions unless you want to lose an hour or more of progress. I had a character die almost immediately, having used him in only one fight before he was unceremoniously killed. Adapt and move on.
Paying attention to what the characters actually say will let you know where you're headed.
I don't feel many of your criticisms especially on combat have much merit. The one thing it's truly missing is the ability to keep enemy movement squares highlighted while you move your own character.
That's not how it went for me.
I punished him when he was drunk, he understand my decision. Later he proven himself in a battle and asked to join my team as my bodyguard, ie he joined my playable character pool.
Not exactly like fire emblem. You get more but you also get some xp in combat from dealing damage. This helps mitigate this killblow mechanic which results in situations like that where you have to carry a character.
How is this a con? That is how dialogue trees work.
I like the conversation trees better when you follow it down a path rather than just clicking all the options available. If you're going to do that, just make it an automatic cutscene where I click next.
Yeah I'm just not okay with that kind of mentality. Yeah, I also would go back if I got a BAD END in my CYOA. I don't want it to end, I want it to continue until I win.
I mean like this:
You see this kind of information and go "okay good idea to do that" *presses accept/continue*
As it stands now, yes you can get an overview of what everyone's health/armor is (and when they're all clumped up with no way to rotate or properly discern who is who without scrutinization) but you don't have any way to judge movement, attack range, and ability range unless it's done mentally. I find that too...not complicated but unnecessary and lacking in part of the designer. Oversight maybe?
Never once saw that. Maybe it was mentioned once and never again, which would make sense.
No. I would rather lose an hour of progress to save a character because I picked a vague dialogue choice than to "deal with it"
That's not really an issue for me except in the beginning of a match or during planning where to move my character. I go "oh they can reach here" and put them right on the outskirts where they can't get me, then on that character's next turn jump in (if the turn initiative hasn't gone all to shit in the meantime)
I find most of the time it's not clear at all. It's just kind of out there with no lead up in some situations.
I mean like this:
You see this kind of information and go "okay good idea to do that" *presses accept/continue*
As it stands now, yes you can get an overview of what everyone's health/armor is (and when they're all clumped up with no way to rotate or properly discern who is who without scrutinization) but you don't have any way to judge movement, attack range, and ability range unless it's done mentally. I find that too...not complicated but unnecessary and lacking in part of the designer. Oversight maybe?
I'm not really sure what information you want that isn't already being clearly provided. When you're on the attack, the game tells you exactly how much damage you're about to do to enemy armor or health. If you have, say, a strength of 9 and the enemy has an armor of 8, your attack will read as "1" if you have no other bonuses (like the archer's puncture ability) or added willpower. If you do have those bonuses, the attack value will change accordingly.
If an enemy has a strength of 4 and armor of 7, and you have someone about to attack with a strength of 11, you know pretty intuitively that it will be a deathblow. You're not really having to do mental gymnastics there.
Attack range is easily gauged by hovering over a square prior to finalizing movement; it will highlight every enemy you're able to attack from that position.
Clicking on your character will tell you which squares his ability impacts on the info portion at the bottom (such as adjacent squares), and clicking once on the ability will highlight in purple every square it can hit so you can have clear confirmation. With abilities that can impact further squares after the initial hit (like the battering ram which sends an enemy back four squares), you'll get an arrow that shows you how far it'll go. Clicking on an enemy will show you how many squares they can move, along with giving you the same amount of information for each of them as you have for your own people.
What I would add to the combat portion when it comes to the special abilities is the option to go to the Heroes screen, since they give you a bit more detail there. But typically the info you already get at the bottom is enough.
You can also click on enemies on the queue at the bottom to see exactly who's going next, and prioritize them if it's a good idea to do so.
It was in one of the early tutorial portions, when you switch to Rook's story. The game recommends that you place your tanks in the front of the queue and weaker archers in the back.
That's your prerogative, but the game isn't built on playing to crush everything with a meticulously-built team of powerful warriors, but rather scrounging for resources and braving a treacherous journey. That may not be your thing, which is fine, but that's essentially what the game is going for.
I guess you've never played Fire emblem, but that is information presented in the move phase. You select a place to move, and then also attack a creature with that character. It shows you all that information in one go. You don't like it? press B and move/attack somewhere else. This could be easily implemented and it would help out a lot.
And yes attack range is previewed while moving, as it should be, and as you mentioned it doesn't highlight move range of the enemy (which should be shown at the same time as being selected for an attack). Though the only real way to do this is to allow moves to be "taken back" as long as the turn hasn't ended for that character.
I guess where I'm getting confused is that health = attack strength which is weird as fuck. However, it also does not equal that. For example: you say an armor of 7 and health of four should be obliterated by someone attacking with 11. True, that does equal 11. However there have been times where I've been able to do 5 str damage on a dude with 3 arm and 7 health, and I'm pretty sure my attack was not that high. However, with the same guy on a different creature, I've been at 1 arm and 10 health and it comes up as something like 3-4 health damage until there is zero arm. At this point it's not a matter of mental gymnastics as it is the player is getting fucking lost where these calculations are coming from.
I suppose then it would make sense that in the latter example it was because the character's hp was lower, but my paperthin archers have been at 1 at times and just rip through dudes.
A cancel move button would be a god send, yes. I would love some terrain variability/influence on attacks/abilities also. And I would like to know what enemy units I will encounter in the pre-loading screen as I had one encounter with the slingshot enemies that my archer Yrsa was not able to attack them for whatever reason. And that felt a bit cheap also. I failed to read some warning or UI message on why those enemies were impervious to arrow attacks. Was there one?