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[upandaway]

I can't think in Japanese as a native speaker would because I was not exposed to it when young enough.

In these discussions I always remember my English teacher in high school which was learning a new language, Spanish, at 56 (she was 3 years into it then). She believed religiously in immersion and that age is never a factor in language. Maybe she reached a zen state or something after learning 5 languages to fluency, or she straight up lied to me, but she was already instinctively using Spanish at that point.

I also started handling English later in my life than anyone I know, and it's as far apart from my native language as it is from Japanese, and I'm thinking primarily in English now. Age is definitely a factor, but I don't think it's as decisive as I hear everyone say, in the face of hard, time-sinked immersion.

Translation is a whole other beast though. I can't translate between English and my native language to save my life. I'm willing to believe that it exists in a complete separate part of the brain from fluency.

 

[Ledsen]

I'm saying that Japanese is Japanese. English is English. I can't think in Japanese as a native speaker would because I was not exposed to it when young enough. I can only think in English for the most part. That means I have to turn Japanese words and sentence constructs into approximated English ones. But they won't really capture the true meaning in a lot of cases because the languages are so different. Going off this, the word とります in some contexts roughly approximates to the English word "to take." But it is clear that this approximation doesn't always work. When I try to "think" in Japanese I struggle to see why a native speaker wouldn't simply say "おふろをとります" because I'm actually thinking in English and then trying to approximate English constructs in Japanese. Hopefully that's a little clearer?

And thanks for the words of encouragement Fugu.

As you learn more languages, you learn to stop translating everything to your own language. It's counter-productive in many cases and will slow down your learning immensly. Don't try to make sense of it, just learn it. Words often don't have direct translations. No one will be able to tell you why word X can be used to mean Y in one context but not in another context, or at least not in a way that makes sense to you. These things develop over hundreds, thousands of years. Situational learning is key. Learn what to say in a specific situation, and accept it. Trying to wrestle a Japanese word into an English frame of reference is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole. There's no reason you can't learn to think this way as an adult. In fact, your intelligence, your ability to understand abstract concepts, your ability for concentrated learning, amongst many other things, give you advantages a child could never have. I'm willing to bet that you've understood by now that particles (like "wa" and "ga") don't have English equivalents. Expand this concept in your brain.

 

[dog$]

When time permits, I've been listening to Castle FM through here for purposes of immersion and being more acclimated to hearing standard speech: http://www.liveradio.fm/#live/radios/fm_castle

Out of all the stations that I've searched, it's the one that mostly consistently plays content 24 hours a day and plays the most talk content.

Does anyone have a better recommendation? Basically, I wish there was something like NHK which played continuously forever rather than in 10 minute spurts.

 

[Kansoku]

So since I have a lot of Japanese music I would go trough their lyrics, picking words, and putting them in a Anki deck. It would be good because, I would practice vissualy trough anki, and since I listen to music a lot I would be practicing listening and it would help me remember more easily. I'm using JED on my phone (because I can search trough conjugations), and I'm checking on Tangorin and Denshi Jisho. But I'm getting a little overwhelmed becase some words have multiple kanji that represents them (like Omoi - 思い, 想い, 念&#12356 and some have multiple meanings that have nothing to do with the others (like Omoi (重&#12356 meaning heavy, or gloomy, or slow, or serious, or estabilished), and I have no idea when to use one or another (or for a meaning if it's better that I use a synonym).
I think it would be better if instead of having a "translation" of the meaning of the words, I had the (translated) dictionary definition, but I don't know where I could get it.
Maybe I'm overthinking.

 

[shanshan310]

Anyone else doing the JLPT tomorrow?

Probablyshouldhavetakenmorepractisetestsohgodimgoingtofailsobad :|

 

[alekth]

Anyone else doing the JLPT tomorrow?

Probablyshouldhavetakenmorepractisetestsohgodimgoingtofailsobad :|

I'm trying for N1 tomorrow. If I pass, it it will not be completely on luck alone, but a huge part of it will be. Then again I'm not so worried about it, even if I fail it, because I know it's simply way above my current level. Unfortunately I've already passed N3 and N2, always a bit too early and with a bit too much luck, so there was nothing else to do this year.

 

[Stuart444]

Good luck to you two then and any others doing the JLPT

 

[Desmond]

My lecturer advised me to go for N3, but I felt I wasn't ready and having never taken one before I'm just sitting N4 tomorrow. I hope I'm ok. Vocabulary is my weakspot.

 

[shanshan310]

I'm trying for N1 tomorrow. If I pass, it it will not be completely on luck alone, but a huge part of it will be. Then again I'm not so worried about it, even if I fail it, because I know it's simply way above my current level. Unfortunately I've already passed N3 and N2, always a bit too early and with a bit too much luck, so there was nothing else to do this year.

mm, having just returned I feel the same way (I took N2). I think if I fail it'll be the vocab section that let me down, but otherwise I feel alright about it.

Weirdest thing though, the guy sitting next to me seemed to work hard during the first half, but as soon as the first example began in the listening section he just started marking all the 1's down the page :|

 

[Desmond]

mm, having just returned I feel the same way (I took N2). I think if I fail it'll be the vocab section that let me down, but otherwise I feel alright about it.

Weirdest thing though, the guy sitting next to me seemed to work hard during the first half, but as soon as the first example began in the listening section he just started marking all the 1's down the page :|

お疲れ様です


Still have 4 hours until the test in Dublin.

 

[alekth]

mm, having just returned I feel the same way (I took N2). I think if I fail it'll be the vocab section that let me down, but otherwise I feel alright about it.

Weirdest thing though, the guy sitting next to me seemed to work hard during the first half, but as soon as the first example began in the listening section he just started marking all the 1's down the page :|

Our Japanese teacher told us to mark the 3s if unsure! Worked well enough for me with N2 haha

 

[shanshan310]

お疲れ様です


Still have 4 hours until the test in Dublin.

Thanks Good luck with yours!

Our Japanese teacher told us to mark the 3s if unsure! Worked well enough for me with N2 haha

damn it! Wish I'd known that before

 

[alekth]

Well, I'd say it will be almost entirely luck if I passed that.
On the other hand this was the first time I actually had time to read all the texts, and even understand what they were about. reading comprehension questions were still a pain.

 

[Desmond]

Lol, good thing I didn't take n3, because I'll be surprised if I pass n4. Pretty livid right now.

 

[ponpo]

Not sure how many people here are using it but the Midori app for iOS was just updated pretty significantly and it has a pretty great text to speech function for all of the example sentences they have in their dictionaries.

 

[CornBurrito]

Man, every time I think I finally start to -get- particles I end up being proven wrong.

What's the functional difference between:

私はわかりません

and

私にはわかりません

 

[Kilrogg]

Man, every time I think I finally start to -get- particles I end up being proven wrong.

What's the functional difference between:

私はわかりません

and

私にはわかりません

I'd say it means the same, really. には is just for emphasis: "To me, it doesn't make any sense".

 

[LeroyPantwether]

will someone help me please. I have to tell someone how to make french toast, and cooking verbs confuse me a little bit( to soak, to grill, to take out, to mix, to separate, to put on, and cook until golden brown ect.) Will someone take a look please? Advice regarding my poor grammar is always greatly appreciated. Thanks and sorry if it is kind of a mess



料理をするのが好きですから、今日は私の一番好き朝ご飯を作り方を教えたいです。
つくるやすいので、フレンチトーストは一番好きな朝ご飯です。
そして、たくさんの食料品を必要としませんから、毎朝フレンチトーストをつくれます
フレンチトーストの材料はたまごとパンとシナモンとバニラとちょっと牛乳

初めの前に、を予熱します.
待つながら、冷蔵庫から食料品を出します。
レンジが暑いときに、始めることが出来ます。

初めに、、たまごをわって、よく混ぜます
パンをこわしたいじゃなかったら
四角いボールを使ってほうがいいです

混ぜるながらシナモンと牛乳を入れます。
そして、一分間に混ぜて続けます。

それを終わった時に、たまごの生地にパンをひたします
パンを４まいひたします。

それから、パンがびしょびしょだ時に、上にもうシナモンをまきます。
いま、ひらなべがとても暑いですから、やきましょう。

次に、レンジの上にパンを入れて、狐焼をします。
こげくさい朝ご飯がほしいじゃなかったら、ちゅうししなければなりません。
パンはパーフェクトな色だ時に、レンジからフレンチトーストを出します。
最後に、５分ぐらいさまして、それから、フレンチトーストの上にメープルシロップを載せます

 

[Necromanti]

will someone help me please. I have to tell someone how to make french toast, and cooking verbs confuse me a little bit( to soak, to grill, to take out, to mix, to separate, to put on, and cook until golden brown ect.) Will someone take a look please? Advice regarding my poor grammar is always greatly appreciated. Thanks and sorry if it is kind of a mess

Since I only briefly glanced over 2-3 random sentences, some actual errors (versus unnatural wording or sentence structures) I can spot (with bolded corrections) are:

料理をするのが好きですから、今日は私の一番好きな朝ご飯の作り方を教えたいです。

「必要とする」sounds a bit formal for this situation.

食料品は必要としませんないから

ながら follows the verb stem/連用形 of a verb, so drop the る.

混ぜるながら...

The same applies to...

つくりやすいので、

...where you'd also use the verb stem + やすい/にくい.

I'm going to assume you meant「ちゅうい」, as in be careful.

こげくさい朝ご飯がほしくなかったら、注意しなければなりません。

Also, make sure you're consistent with whatever form or kanji you are using.

 

[LeroyPantwether]

thank you!

 

[erpg]

We had our one on one oral assessments this week. I did well, pronunciation was great, vocabulary was good, but I know I'm capable of doing better (if pause a lot to think, for example). I just need more practise. I hope I can find language sessions locally so I can converse with other speakers and try to get it all to flow somewhat naturally.

I shouldn't beat myself up though. Zero knowledge to this in four months while living in Canadian suburbia isn't bad.

Maybe I'll check out the embassy. See what they offer.

 

[CornBurrito]

Bah, totally bombed a Japanese oral exam for class. Got tenses fucked up at times, wrong words (kaeshimasu instead of kaimasu), and fucked up grammar at times. Speaking during a graded interview is tough.

 

[Fugu]

How do you guys practice the writing of kanji? I have a rather reliable method for remembering readings and meanings (I... read them) but I don't have quite as good a grasp on writing them. I used to simply write out each of the characters that I knew once but this became unfeasible awhile ago as doing this now takes several hours. Currently, I’ve segmented my characters into different levels of familiarity and I am working on the less familiar ones more often but this system requires a fairly large amount of maintenance that also makes it quite the big time sink, especially now that the pool of characters I'm working with is approaching 2000 kanji.

Any suggestions?

 

[Kansoku]

How do you guys practice the writing of kanji? I have a rather reliable method for remembering readings and meanings (I... read them) but I don't have quite as good a grasp on writing them. I used to simply write out each of the characters that I knew once but this became unfeasible awhile ago as doing this now takes several hours. Currently, I’ve segmented my characters into different levels of familiarity and I am working on the less familiar ones more often but this system requires a fairly large amount of maintenance that also makes it quite the big time sink, especially now that the pool of characters I'm working with is approaching 2000 kanji.

Any suggestions?

I used Ankidroid to review my Anki RTK deck, because it had whiteboard (you can write on the screen), so I read the keyword, drew what I thought it was, and compared after.

 

[PKrockin]

Has anyone else started to mix up Ls and Rs when speaking English? Every day or two I somehow say something like "seliously" or "bled" instead of "bread". As a native speaker of English it's getting pretty embarrassing.

 

[CornBurrito]

Has anyone else started to mix up Ls and Rs when speaking English? Every day or two I somehow say something like "seliously" or "bled" instead of "bread". As a native speaker of English it's getting pretty embarrassing.

Not quite. But the Japanese "R" is starting to leak into my normal Rs at times.

 

[Necromanti]

What are you guys doing to yourselves? .__.

Anyway, I don't think the Japanese 'R's have ever given me any trouble, but I know that some people struggle with pronouncing it. Like for りゅ, I've heard people say to pronounce it as "lyu" or "dyu", but that sounds completely different to me. As such, I haven't ever had my streams cross. Although, I had an incident where I thought I was hearing British English when it was, in fact, Swedish...

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that English is my second language. (As for other oddities, my accent when speaking English sounds...off somehow in my head. Yet when I listen to a recording of it, I sound American. Damn you, brain. I wonder what kind of regional dialect I imitate.)

 

[Boogiepop]

I've never gotten messy with Ls and Rs, but I did have a minute or so where I couldn't remember the English term with the same meaning as パンク. Oh, and of course my Spanish is completely ruined and just automatically becomes half filled with Japanese, but that's because I haven't used it hardly at all in like 3-4 years.

The big one, though, is bowing. I subconsciously bow all the time, which I'm sure looks weird to people.

 

[CornBurrito]

Pretty sure I aced my Japanese final. Turns out I didn't do too shitty on the oral exam. They must have graded extremely leniently.

 

[GSR]

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone could give me a little help with getting my point across in Japanese. I'm writing a paper on the lay judge system and discussing how the first trial ended in a guilty verdict, and I'm trying to say something like "and this served as a sign of things to come in the system." I can't quite get a good wording for it, though; right now I've got

しかし、裁判員の参加で刑の重さや「検察司法」が変わることが期待されていたのに、その最初の有罪判決が裁判員制度の発展を示した

With 発展を示した being my attempt at the problematic part. I know that's not quite right though (in part because my professor marked it with "what does this mean?") - any ideas?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I'm having trouble figuring out how to interpret and use なんか. Is it supposed to add emphasis, or something?

 

[cnet128]

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone could give me a little help with getting my point across in Japanese. I'm writing a paper on the lay judge system and discussing how the first trial ended in a guilty verdict, and I'm trying to say something like "and this served as a sign of things to come in the system." I can't quite get a good wording for it, though; right now I've got



With 発展を示した being my attempt at the problematic part. I know that's not quite right though (in part because my professor marked it with "what does this mean?") - any ideas?

My first instinct is to go with something like その最初の有罪判決が裁判員制度の未来を物語っていた, but I'm not sure how natural that would actually be. Hmmm.

I'm having trouble figuring out how to interpret and use なんか. Is it supposed to add emphasis, or something?

Depends on which なんか you mean. I can think of three common ones:

お前って、なんか(1)つまんない奴だよな。なんか(2)面白いこと言えないわけ？もうお前なんか(3)とは付き合ってられねーよ。
"You know, you're kind of a boring guy. Can't you say something interesting for once? I can't be bothered hanging out with the likes of you any more."

なんか(1), also sometimes seen as なんだか, essentially means "kind of" or "sort of". It's used at the beginning of a statement to make it sound more vague and noncommittal.

なんか(2) is a simple abbreviation of 何(な&#12395か, and just means "something".

なんか(3) is appended to the end of a noun to indicate contempt for it, as indicated by "the likes of" in my gloss above. It sounds very…dismissive.

 

[shanshan310]

I'm having trouble figuring out how to interpret and use なんか. Is it supposed to add emphasis, or something?

Basically what the other guy said, but additionally I've always seen it as functionally a Japanese equivalent to the word "like" when it's used to fill in a pause (eg. "that movie was, like, so interesting" "あの映画ってなんか面白い").

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Thanks, those explanations help a lot.

 

[GSR]

My first instinct is to go with something like その最初の有罪判決が裁判員制度の未来を物語っていた, but I'm not sure how natural that would actually be. Hmmm.

Yeah, it sounds kind of... anime, for lack of a better term. Maybe 将来 and 語る instead?

 

[Cranzor]

Those of you who are translators, what exactly did you go to college for? I've heard majoring in Japanese isn't super important for becoming a translator as most employers value results on the JLPT more. But if that's the case, and being a translator is something I want to pursue, I really don't know what I should be focusing on once I'm in college.

 

[shanshan310]

Those of you who are translators, what exactly did you go to college for? I've heard majoring in Japanese isn't super important for becoming a translator as most employers value results on the JLPT more. But if that's the case, and being a translator is something I want to pursue, I really don't know what I should be focusing on once I'm in college.

Well, my university offers courses and degrees in translation and interpreting which often include NAATI accreditation. But even besides that, you do need a high level of language proficiency for translation and majoring in Japanese is a great way to improve proficiency, especially if you go on exchange. If you can do two majors, it might be worth expanding into a different field as a fall back option as a lot of translation work is freelance.

 

[Zissou]

One big sticking point for my Japanese studies has been trying to find Japanese media (specifically movies/TV- comics and music aren't an issue) that are actually tolerable. Are there any Japanese TV shows/movies that aren't shitty low rent dramas? Help me GAF!

 

[Kansoku]

One big sticking point for my Japanese studies has been trying to find Japanese media (specifically movies/TV- comics and music aren't an issue) that are actually tolerable. Are there any Japanese TV shows/movies that aren't shitty low rent dramas? Help me GAF!

Well, do you like anime?

 

[perorist]

One big sticking point for my Japanese studies has been trying to find Japanese media (specifically movies/TV- comics and music aren't an issue) that are actually tolerable. Are there any Japanese TV shows/movies that aren't shitty low rent dramas? Help me GAF!

Not sure what you mean by low rent but you could simply watch the Japanese dubs for non-Japanese media that you already enjoy.

 

[Zissou]

Well, do you like anime?

I'm open to anime, but I find it difficult to find stuff that I like. I'd like to avoid stuff like period pieces, since I'd rather not have to deal with old Japanese that's no longer used. Any suggestions would be welcome!

Not sure what you mean by low rent but you could simply watch the Japanese dubs for non-Japanese media that you already enjoy.

I just mean most Japanese TV and film feel like soap operas with slightly higher budgets. I don't have much hope of finding the Japanese equivalent of HBO shows, but I thought something might be out there. I assume there are good Japanese indie movies out there somewhere, but I don't know how to find them. I don't really like the idea of watching Japanese dubbed western media, since I want native Japanese in the actual cultural context of Japan/Japanese people interacting with each other. Thoughts?

 

[Mik2121]

I'm open to anime, but I find it difficult to find stuff that I like. I'd like to avoid stuff like period pieces, since I'd rather not have to deal with old Japanese that's no longer used. Any suggestions would be welcome!



I just mean most Japanese TV and film feel like soap operas with slightly higher budgets. I don't have much hope of finding the Japanese equivalent of HBO shows, but I thought something might be out there. I assume there are good Japanese indie movies out there somewhere, but I don't know how to find them. I don't really like the idea of watching Japanese dubbed western media, since I want native Japanese in the actual cultural context of Japan/Japanese people interacting with each other. Thoughts?

Most of the TV stuff and films feel like soap operas indeed. It's something that bothers me so much. I have only seen one or two TV series that weren't as bad, but I can't remember which ones :/

One big sticking point for my Japanese studies has been trying to find Japanese media (specifically movies/TV- comics and music aren't an issue) that are actually tolerable. Are there any Japanese TV shows/movies that aren't shitty low rent dramas? Help me GAF!

Are you living in Japan? If so, there are a lot of TV programs (not series nor films, sorry, they usually suck) that I find quite interesting. Most of them have famous people (芸能&#20154 going to some country and somewhat introducing you some stuff about said country while (usually) mixing some slight comedy here and there. Off the top of my head, a few ones I can think of are 「世界の果てまでイッテQ」, 「世界行ってみたらホントはこんなトコだった!?」(yep, some seriously long titles) and a few other. There are also some news stuff with this guy called 池上彰 (Ikegami Akira) that's very interesting and easy to understand.

You might be able to find some videos online as well.

 

[shanshan310]

Most of the TV stuff and films feel like soap operas indeed. It's something that bothers me so much. I have only seen one or two TV series that weren't as bad, but I can't remember which ones :/

Yeah, it's a problem I've had too. I just don't care for talk shows with Arashi or dramas that repeat two dramatic songs over and over :|

I quite liked Jin, but it's a bit period drama-y which isn't what Zissou is looking for. I still recommend it though. Viceguide Japan is alright, and you can find the episodes on youtube.

 

[Kansoku]

I'm open to anime, but I find it difficult to find stuff that I like. I'd like to avoid stuff like period pieces, since I'd rather not have to deal with old Japanese that's no longer used. Any suggestions would be welcome!

Well, for comedy I can recommend Nichijou, Toradora and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei.
For more serious stuff, there's Another (Kinda horror, just a creepy vibe to the whole thing. Not the best stuff, but it's quite enjoyable), AnoHana, Bakuman, Casshern Sins, Code Geass, Durarara!, Ergo Proxy, Hyouka, Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica, Steins;Gate, and Tegen Toppa Guren Laggan.

Also, there's one J-Drama that I've watched and like it a lot, but it's kinda soap opera-y, nut not as much as other stuff. If you'd like to check it out, it's called Mother.

 

[ImpassionateGods]

Is 働く長さ an okay way to say how long you worked somewhere?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Is 働く長さ an okay way to say how long you worked somewhere?

働いた期間　（はたらいた　きかん）would probably be the better way to go.

Any context?

 

[HisshouBuraiKen]

Is 働く長さ an okay way to say how long you worked somewhere?

In conversation you'd just say something like 私はXX年間(ぐら&#12356YYで勤務していました if you're talking about work history.

Or are you talking more like a resume?

Also this guy is my new jbro, I love his shows:
www.youtube.com/user/ARIKEITA113

 

[ImpassionateGods]

In conversation you'd just say something like 私はXX年間(ぐら&#12356YYで勤務していました if you're talking about work history.

Or are you talking more like a resume?

Also this guy is my new jbro, I love his shows:
www.youtube.com/user/ARIKEITA113

I was trying to say something to the effect of "The most important factor is how long you work at the company". I reworded it and handed it in though.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I was trying to say something to the effect of "The most important factor is how long you work at the company". I reworded it and handed it in though.

働いた長さ should be fine.

Something like 働いた長さが一番重要

 

[Cranzor]

Well, my university offers courses and degrees in translation and interpreting which often include NAATI accreditation. But even besides that, you do need a high level of language proficiency for translation and majoring in Japanese is a great way to improve proficiency, especially if you go on exchange. If you can do two majors, it might be worth expanding into a different field as a fall back option as a lot of translation work is freelance.

Hmm, lots to think about I guess. Thanks, I appreciate it!