Support NeoGAF

[CornBurrito]

Do these sentences make sense? We have to practice using "verbのparticle" to convey "doing verb"

ドゲコインはインターネットのお金です。ドゲプログラムを使うのはドゲコインを作ります。
(Dogecoin is an internet currency. Using the Doge Program, you make Doge Coins).

でも、たくさんコインがあるから、コインを作るのは難しいです。
(but, because there are a lot of coins, making them is hard.)

コインがあまりない時は、コインを作るのは優しいです。
(as for the times when there are not a lot of coins, making coins is easy).

Sorry I can't help you Alabastre. I don't know much about practicing speaking.

 

[rooflapimp]

Do these sentences make sense? We have to practice using "verbのparticle" to convey "doing verb"

ドゲコインはインターネットのお金です。ドゲプログラムを使うのはドゲコインを作ります。
(Dogecoin is an internet currency. Using the Doge Program, you make Doge Coins).

でも、たくさんコインがあるから、コインを作るのは難しいです。
(but, because there are a lot of coins, making them is hard.)

コインがあまりない時は、コインを作るのは優しいです。
(as for the times when there are not a lot of coins, making coins is easy).

Sorry I can't help you Alabastre. I don't know much about practicing speaking.

I'm not completely comfortable correcting other people, since my Japanese is far from good, but some things that stood out for me:

ドゲソフトを使ってドゲコインを作ります。

易しい, not 優しい

 

[CornBurrito]

I'm not completely comfortable correcting other people, since my Japanese is far from good, but some things that stood out for me:

ドゲソフトを使ってドゲコインを作ります。

易しい, not 優しい

Ah oops, I fucked up that kanji. Still gotta learn them I guess. Thanks.

Are you sure about the first correction? I know your sentence is correct, but is mine incorrect or just another way of saying it?

Edit: asked my teacher, yeah I was wrong on both.

 

[beanman25]

I've just about got Hiragana & Katakana remembered. What should I focus on after that?

 

[CornBurrito]

I've just about got Hiragana & Katakana remembered. What should I focus on after that?

Basic grammar. And Kanji. And vocab. Honestly I like structured lessons (even if self taught). You can probably find a structured plan online, or buy a textbook (ex. Genki).

 

[Aizo]

I've just about got Hiragana & Katakana remembered. What should I focus on after that?

Read the OP.
Get Remembering the Kanji.

 

[Necromanti]

Read the OP.
Get Remembering the Kanji.

I keep hearing mixed reports about Remembering the Kanji. Is that the best way to expand one's repertoire of kanji in terms of becoming able to read them?

 

[Zoe]

I keep hearing mixed reports about Remembering the Kanji. Is that the best way to expand one's repertoire of kanji in terms of becoming able to read them?

It only teaches you the meaning, not how to read them in Japanese, so you gain nothing in terms of functional vocabulary.

 

[Necromanti]

It only teaches you the meaning, not how to read them in Japanese, so you gain nothing in terms of functional vocabulary.

Boo. I guess that gets me halfway there... I just don't want to have to rely on a mountain of mnemonics.

 

[Zoe]

Boo. I guess that gets me halfway there... I just don't want to have to rely on a mountain of mnemonics.

It really depends on what you want to do with your Japanese. Do you just want to play games and read stuff online, or do you want to be able to converse with people?

 

[Necromanti]

It really depends on what you want to do with your Japanese. Do you just want to play games and read stuff online, or do you want to be able to converse with people?

Probably the former at this point in time (as I feel that fulfilling the latter is easier when in a setting where you're forced to use the language all the time), so I guess I might as well give it a shot. I have been lazy with my Japanese.

 

[shanshan310]

I've just about got Hiragana & Katakana remembered. What should I focus on after that?

Vocab and grammar. But especially vocab. I'd actually say wait a little while on kanji. If you already know the vocab and the meaning it makes learning the kanji easier down the track.

Read the OP.
Get Remembering the Kanji.

I don't really feel like the OP was made for beginners...

 

[Aizo]

It really depends on what you want to do with your Japanese. Do you just want to play games and read stuff online, or do you want to be able to converse with people?

I learn Japanese to speak with people/understand the language, and I still think RTK is a great start to help one climb the kanji mountain. I'm upper level intermediate, though, so I'm going back and reading it for the first time, now. Although I'm relearning hundreds of kanji I already know, many of them are sticking better through mnemonics. Of course there is the issue of not knowing how to read them, but I think that really comes pretty quick while learning vocab and reading. If you learn the vocabulary by reading the kanji, then associate pronunciations and meanings with things you already know, it goes pretty well. I suppose it's all subjective, though, and depends on how one learns best!

Still, I think it's a great recommendation to the beginners in this thread.

 

[beanman25]

Vocab and grammar. But especially vocab. I'd actually say wait a little while on kanji. If you already know the vocab and the meaning it makes learning the kanji easier down the track.


I don't really feel like the OP was made for beginners...

The flashcards I've been using to remember the kana have lots of words on them so I know many of those. Although it's nothing crazy, but instead simple words.

 

[Kansoku]

The thing about RtK is that it shows you how kanji works and how to memorize them.
And understanding that makes learning vocabulary so much easier (at least it's been or me). For example, 秘密. For someone who don't know how kanji works, this might be a bunch of crazy lines, that happens to mean "secret". But from RtK, you know that 秘 (composed of wheat and invariability) is secret, and 密 (composed of house, invariability and mountain) is secrecy, so it's way easier to remember if you connect the dots, an use the kanji's meanings to remember the word..

 

[PKrockin]

I prefer Slime Forest Adventure. Teaches you the most common meaning of each Kanji using the same principles of using mnemonics, SRS, and breaking down Kanji into smaller parts you already know. The video game presentation also helps. You can't get any drier, more boring, or more blatantly "schoolwork" than Anki. It won't teach you how to write them though.

edit: Huh, looks like the demo is now only 200 Kanji rather than 1000 back when I downloaded it. That kinda sucks.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The thing about RtK is that it shows you how kanji works and how to memorize them.
And understanding that makes learning vocabulary so much easier (at least it's been or me). For example, 秘密. For someone who don't know how kanji works, this might be a bunch of crazy lines, that happens to mean "secret". But from RtK, you know that 秘 (composed of wheat and invariability) is secret, and 密 (composed of house, invariability and mountain) is secrecy, so it's way easier to remember if you connect the dots, an use the kanji's meanings to remember the word..

I don't see what "wheat and invariability + house and invariability and mountain" will do to help you memorize anything. Again, I didn't use the method, but it's perfectly possible to learn the individual radicals through the context of Japanese and memorize the Kanji that way. I imagine it will be a lot more beneficial in this method, too.

 

[CornBurrito]

I don't see what "wheat and invariability + house and invariability and mountain" will do to help you memorize anything. Again, I didn't use the method, but it's perfectly possible to learn the individual radicals through the context of Japanese and memorize the Kanji that way. I imagine it will be a lot more beneficial in this method, too.

Yeah... wtf. Wheat + house + in variability = secret is quite the logical leap.

 

[Kansoku]

I don't see what "wheat and invariability + house and invariability and mountain" will do to help you memorize anything. Again, I didn't use the method, but it's perfectly possible to learn the individual radicals through the context of Japanese and memorize the Kanji that way. I imagine it will be a lot more beneficial in this method, too.

Yeah... wtf. Wheat + house + in variability = secret is quite the logical leap.

Using mnemonics makes learning them much more easier. For example, for 密 secrecy:
We accidentally impaled the master's heart in the middle of his house at the mountains. Secrecy must kept at all costs.
Or for 秘 secret:
Deep into his heart he holds the secret recipe for the ultimate pure wheat bread.

You can do whatever you like. It's like this xkdc comic about passwords, it's much easier to remember some crazy mnemonic then trying to following a system and memorizing it. That way you can really learn instead of just memorizing,

Kanji Damage explains it better than me: http://kanjidamage.com/kanji_facts

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Using mnemonics makes learning them much more easier. For example, for 密 secrecy:
We accidentally impaled the master's heart in the middle of his house at the mountains. Secrecy must kept at all costs.
Or for 秘 secret:
Deep into his heart he holds the secret recipe for the ultimate pure wheat bread.

You can do whatever you like. It's like this xkdc comic about passwords, it's much easier to remember some crazy mnemonic then trying to following a system and memorizing it. That way you can really learn instead of just memorizing,

Kanji Damage explains it better than me: http://kanjidamage.com/kanji_facts

I... I think you and I approach learning very differently.

Then again, mnemonics has never come across as intuitive to me. Those songs and acronyms people talked about in elementary school were simply confusing to me.

 

[Zoe]

Yeeeaaaahhhh... there are way too many kanji for something like that to ever be useful to me.

 

[Kansoku]

I... I think you and I approach learning very differently.

Then again, mnemonics has never come across as intuitive to me. Those songs and acronyms people talked about in elementary school were simply confusing to me.

Songs never worked for me, but this works for some reason. However, I already forgot all mnemonics I used to learn the kanjis, but still remember most of the kanjis I learned. So it's more of a tool to get it into my brain, then the ultimate thing.

Also, disclaimer, english is my second language and that first mnemonic still looks weird to me. >.>

Yeeeaaaahhhh... there are way too many kanji for something like that to ever be useful to me.

That's the beauty of it. You only need to learn the raicals, then the rest comes naturally, as you will build them using what you already now.

 

[Necromanti]

That's the beauty of it. You only need to learn the raicals, then the rest comes naturally, as you will build them using what you already now.

I think most of us end up doing that naturally when we learn kanji, though, with or without RtK, especially when one has to remember how to write a significant volume of kanji in a structured class environment.

Initially, me and my classmates would jokingly come up with mnemonics like the ever-vigilant parent watching their children from where they stand on a tree's top (&#35242, or use characteristics like unfortunate sexist connotations of other kanji (安, &#23014. With time, you grow comfortable with recognizing the radicals and their connotations, which helps with looking them up in a dictionary.

Radical-based learning almost seems integral to the learning of kanji anyway, but I guess I can see how RtK can simplify it for people.

 

[Kansoku]

I think most of us end up doing that naturally when we learn kanji, though, with or without RtK, especially when one has to remember how to write a significant volume of kanji in a structured class environment.

Initially, me and my classmates would jokingly come up with mnemonics like the ever-vigilant parent watching their children from where they stand on a tree's top (&#35242, or use characteristics like unfortunate sexist connotations of other kanji (安, &#23014. With time, you grow comfortable with recognizing the radicals and their connotations, which helps with looking them up in a dictionary.

Radical-based learning almost seems integral to the learning of kanji anyway, but I guess I can see how RtK can simplify it for people.

Yeah. I'm learning it all by myself, so it's actually more useful to me, than if I was going to a classroom or using Genki or some other textbook. Also, this is what made me start learning the language, so following it, I thought it would be better to get kanji down early, than having to learn it together with vocabulary.

 

[CornBurrito]

I have no idea how to transition smoothly to different topics in Japanese.

For an oral exam I have to record myself speaking about: my family. my college (and the surrounding city), and then my Japanese. In that order. And I have no idea how to lead in from one to the other.

Is there like.... a short phrase I can use that's equivalent to the English "[topic 1]... moving on... [topic 2]" that totally bypasses the need to link the two topics?

 

[PKrockin]

Kansoku brought up the password example, and that's how I've looked at it for a while now. abfactory3.14 is easier to remember than bfcaoyctar41.3. It's inarguable breaking down things into smaller components helps memorize them. Giving them meanings helps too, even if they're often not perfect or outright wrong. The half dozen meanings and readings will come with vocab, grammar, and exposure. Won't matter how many readings of a kanji I learned if I can't recognize it or confuse it with another when it appears.

 

[CornBurrito]

Kansoku brought up the password example, and that's how I've looked at it for a while now. abfactory3.14 is easier to remember than bfcaoyctar41.3. It's inarguable breaking down things into smaller components helps memorize them. Giving them meanings helps too, even if they're often not perfect or outright wrong. The half dozen meanings and readings will come with vocab, grammar, and exposure. Won't matter how many readings of a kanji I learned if I can't recognize it or confuse it with another when it appears.

From what I can gather, RTK is doing basically what my Japanese teacher does. Pointing out the individual bits of the kanji, the radicals. And the meanings behind the radicals.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Won't matter how many readings of a kanji I learned if I can't recognize it or confuse it with another when it appears.

But you're not just learning readings of the Kanji. You're learning what those readings mean and associating those meanings with the Kanji. This is also the case for the radicals. I feel like I'm missing something, because the RTK method just seems like a way to remember Kanji outside of the context of Japanese, which doesn't seem too beneficial to me.

 

[PKrockin]

From what I can gather, RTK is doing basically what my Japanese teacher does. Pointing out the individual bits of the kanji, the radicals. And the meanings behind the radicals.

Sure our teacher pointed out radicals, but we weren't tested on them, so nobody remembered them unless it was a radical we happened to have already learned as a kanji earlier. RTK's learning order is based on learning simple kanji and putting them together to make complex kanji, building on your knowledge as you go.

But you're not just learning readings of the Kanji. You're learning what those readings mean and associating those meanings with the Kanji. This is also the case for the radicals. I feel like I'm missing something, because the RTK method just seems like a way to remember Kanji outside of the context of Japanese, which doesn't seem too beneficial to me.

RTK is just mastering the recognition, writing and distinguishing all jouyou kanji in one go. It's an investment intended to make in-context learning easier. I actually passed on it since I'm not too interested in being able to write at the moment.

 

[shanshan310]

But you're not just learning readings of the Kanji. You're learning what those readings mean and associating those meanings with the Kanji. This is also the case for the radicals. I feel like I'm missing something, because the RTK method just seems like a way to remember Kanji outside of the context of Japanese, which doesn't seem too beneficial to me.

Well, there is a second book that focuses on the readings. It's just separating the writing and the reading, because if you do both at once it's easy to forget one.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

RTK is just mastering the recognition, writing and distinguishing all jouyou kanji in one go. It's an investment intended to make in-context learning easier. I actually passed on it since I'm not too interested in being able to write at the moment.

I don't understand the logic behind that, though. What is the value in knowing individual Kanji meanings and how to write them outside of the context of Japanese? It seems to have very little practical value when it comes to studying the language.

Well, there is a second book that focuses on the readings. It's just separating the writing and the reading, because if you do both at once it's easy to forget one.

Why is it easy to forget one when doing both at once? More data points should help you with associative memory, no? Not only do you have the meaning and stroke order, but also the word for it in Japanese. Woman -- 女 -- おんな, for example. Doing this, you'll start learning the Kanji within the context of Japanese and eventually get to the point where you don't need to look up the meaning in your native language to understand it.

I feel like I'm missing something, but the RTK approach just does not come across as intuitive to me. Seems like an extra step rather than a shortcut.

 

[shanshan310]

Why is it easy to forget one when doing both at once? More data points should help you with associative memory, no? Not only do you have the meaning and stroke order, but also the word for it in Japanese. Woman -- 女 -- おんな, for example. Doing this, you'll start learning the Kanji within the context of Japanese and eventually get to the point where you don't need to look up the meaning in your native language to understand it.

I feel like I'm missing something, but the RTK approach just does not come across as intuitive to me. Seems like an extra step rather than a shortcut.

I dunno, I just found that when studying, long term I could either remember the meaning OR the pronunciation (and generally I'd forget how to write it). Associating the radicals and the meaning with the stroke order has, surprisingly, helped things stick a lot better. You're right in that it definitely feels like an extra step to me as well, and it takes a loooong time to revise everything. It also takes up most available "study time" depending on how busy you are, so there's not a lot of room for vocab study. But things are sticking in my head a lot more clearly than they did when I was learning everything at once and just writing it rote style, or using it in context to try and remember. Maybe it was my brain being overloaded, or maybe it was just that my teachers never bothered to teach a method of remembering kanji, while this book does.

I'm thinking about doing my thesis on this actually. Won't be till next year but I'll post my findings when I do

 

[Mecha]

Read the OP.
Get Remembering the Kanji.

RTK is optional to me, I completed it but I don't feel like I gained much. My friend has been doing the Core 6k without RTK and is doing just fine.

 

[Mecha]

!!This is unfinished, so any suggestions are welcome!!

Starting Japanese

Section 1: Anki and a foreword

Foreword:

This guide was made for NeoGaf users interested in learning Japanese without knowing how to start. I'm mainly going to be listing methods, websites, and programs. There isn't one exact way to learn Japanese, so find your own! Or follow this.

Just a warning, this guide will have some grammatical errors.

Anki: A spaced repetition flashcard program that will be your best friend (or worst enemy). Here are some reasons to use it:

• It spaces out the stuff you know to help with long-term memorization.
• It allows for custom decks
• You can download shared decks online
• It allows for audio and images
• All of the cool Japanese learners have used it at some point

Section 2: Just starting out

These are two major beginner books in the Japanese learning community, so I decided to give them their own section.

Remembering the Kanji: Remembering the Kanji is a book that basically just teaches you how to differentiate kanji. When you first start Japanese kanji look extremely similar, so RtK helps you avoid that.

What it does: It breaks down kanji into "particles" so you can digest them easily. Example:

As you can see, the kanji on the right has two pieces* that combine to create a kanji. Many kanji share particles with other kanji, so it makes learning them easy. Particles also are given names, and are usually used in a sentence to help the learning process.

*Note: It might be cut up into smaller particles than this, this is just a general example.

I recommend the Lazy Kanji + Mod on Anki as an assistant if you use RtK.

FAQ:

Q.) Does RtK teach me what the kanji mean?
A.) No, it does not.

Q.) Should I write all of the kanji?
A.) I did, and I wouldn't say I gained much from it. If you do than I suggest using the stroke order.

Q.) Is it necessary?
A.) I wouldn't say so, but some say it really helps.

Q.) There are multiple RtK books, what one should I buy?
A.) Volume 1, I don't suggest getting the other two.

Genki: Genki is a Japanese textbook that has a fairly large following. Some swear by it and choose it over RtK. I haven't looked too much into it, but it at least earns a look.

Section 3: Learning words and kana

Kana is pretty easy to learn, there are several games such as Slime Forest, or more straight forward ways like realkana to learn them.

Warning: For a little while you will more than likely struggle with learning words at first. Kanji are very hard to get used to, and even after using RtK it takes time. Don't give up thinking that you can't get used to kanji.

The Core 6k: Originating from iKnow, the Core 6k compiles the 6000 most common Japanese words into an Anki deck. It's a highly effective way to learn words, and I recommend it.

The Core 10k: It's the same as the Core 6k but with 4k more words, I suggest moving to this after the 6k.

Core 6k decks:

Core 2k/6k Optimized Japanese Vocabulary

Core 0-10k decks:

Core 2k/6k/10K Further Optimized PIC/SOUND/PITCH ACCENT v23

core10K (core 2k6k +4k more)

iKnow: The original creator of the Core 6k, now a paid service with a program similar to Anki. I used iKnow for a while and I wouldn't recommend it. Reviews are updated when they are ready, and not at the end of the day. This caused me to get stressed out when I wasn't at the computer studying.

Sentence mining/picking: A sort of complex method made by Khatz from AJATT. From my understanding it has you finding sentences, and studying the sentences and what they mean rather than individual words. I hear it's also useful for grammar, but I have never tried this method so I can't say much about it.

Here's an AJATT article showing you how to do it.

Section 4: Grammar

Tae Kim: The essential free resource for learning Japanese grammar. I highly suggest going through Tae Kim with Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Grammar (Clozed Delete).

Japanese the Manga Way: A book on Japanese grammar that has quite a few fans, some say its better than Tae Kim. If you have the funds then try it out.

Sentence mining/picking: As said above, sentence mining can be used to learn grammar. The idea is to learn grammar by learning sentence structure instead of learning rules.

Section 5: English websites

AJATT: A pioneer in the Japanese immersion movement, has some good articles.

Japanese Level Up: A fun Japanese learning website, it has some good tips and articles.

forum.koohii: A great Japanese learning forum, fairly active.

WWWJDIC: My favorite J-E/E-J dictionary, use it folks.

Lang-8: A website focused around blogging in your target language. The cool thing about it is native learners correct your mistakes and you correct theirs.

I'm pretty sure reddit has a Japanese language community too, I don't use reddit so I wouldn't know much about it.

Section 6: Japanese websites/misc resources

Niconico: I'm pretty sure you know what niconico is.

NHK News Easy: A great news website for beginner reading.

QVC Shopping Channel: All of the Japanese shopping you can stand, all in one stream!

Weblio and Yahoo Japan Dictionary: For your J-J dictionary needs.

The podcast thread in the Koohii forum: Instead of listing all of the Japanese podcasts I'll just leave this here.

A list of some free audiobooks, Japan doesn't like audiobooks.


Section 6: Programs

KeyholeTV: The best (legal) way to view Japanese TV without paying! That quality though..

Subs2srs: A possibly useful program allows you to import sections of anime/dramas into Anki for studying. I'm too lazy to get it to work, so I can't say much about it.

Rikaisama: A modification of the popular firefox extension Rikaichan. It lets you do too many things to list on here.

Japanese Google IME: Allows you to type in Japanese, there are other IME programs than this, so if you hate google then ignore this one.

Android applications/iPhone applications

Capture2Text: Allows you to capture text in images (manga) and post it on a clipboard.. Magic!!

!!This is unfinished, so any suggestions are welcome!!

Edit 1: Forgot about Hiragana/katakana.

 

[Jintor]

Core 6k is vocab without kanji? or meaning + pronounciation + kanji?

 

[Mecha]

Core 6k is vocab without kanji? or meaning + pronounciation + kanji?

Kanji, pronunciation, and meaning. However, the layout entirely depends on the deck.

Example from my deck of a card with both sides shown:

The top part is shown first, no audio is played for the front side. The front side in my deck only shows the sentence in Japanese (without the word your learning), and the words meaning in English.

You read the word in English, you say what you think the word is in Japanese, then you flip the card and see if you got it right. On the back it shows the correct answer, how to pronounce it, and has the audio for the sentence/word.

But again, that's just my method, there are other ways to make cards. The shared decks I posted are different from the deck I'm using (mine sucks).

 

[Tenck]

Genki: Genki is a Japanese textbook that has a fairly large following. Some swear by it and choose it over RtK. I haven't looked too much into it, but it at least earns a look.

Um what? They're two completely different things. I would say you haven't looked into Genki at all.

Genki teaches you how to read the three sets of characters, how to write them, and how to speak them. All while you learn vocabulary and grammar.

Remember the Kanji teaches you how to memorize Kanji.

Not one sensible person who's serious about learning Japanese would pick one over the other. They'd pick up both.

 

[kubus]

Thanks for the info Mecha, really useful post!

Some of the those links sound really interesting and useful. I'll definitely check them out.

Do you have any recommendations for practicing writing kanji? I'm in my second year of Japanese studies now and we've had about 1000 kanji I think. I'm starting to forget the stroke order of many kanji (especially from year 1) and I can't find any helpful tools to help me remember them again. Opening my textbooks and just writing down kanji doesn't help, my mind just goes numb after a while. We use Basic Kanji Book (Volume 1&2) + Kanji in Context.

I've thought about using anki and just keep a pen and paper ready while going through the cards, but I just hate using anki in general (program is confusing to me and I lack the patience to get used to it >_>) so I rather avoid that.

 

[Josephl64]

Um what? They're two completely different things. I would say you haven't looked into Genki at all.

Genki teaches you how to read the three sets of characters, how to write them, and how to speak them. All while you learn vocabulary and grammar.

Remember the Kanji teaches you how to memorize Kanji.

Not one sensible person who's serious about learning Japanese would pick one over the other. They'd pick up both.

Right, it'd be more sensible to say that you should pick Genki over Yookoso in that instance as they try to do the same thing.

 

[Tenck]

Yookoso is probably the biggest waste of money for me. Such an awful book. Too many gaps that need to be filled by a teacher. So if you're lost and need to backtrack sometimes you're out of luck.

Edit:

I've thought about using anki and just keep a pen and paper ready while going through the cards, but I just hate using anki in general (program is confusing to me and I lack the patience to get used to it >_>) so I rather avoid that.

You do know you're not limited to digital cards right? I've been practicing traditional/simplified hanzi and Kanji with flash cards I make myself. This way you don't have to use something that's confusing to you.

What I bought was blank flash cards, a one hole puncher, and metal book rings. What I do is write a keyword for one of characters on one side of the card, and then the character on the other side. An example would be 昇. I put "Rise up" on one side, then 昇 on the other side. What I want to look at is the keyword, and then see if I can write the character. If I can, I'll write it down like 5 times while saying "Rise up" so I can etch it into my memory. If I can't remember the character, I'll write it about 20 times while saying the meaning so hopefully it sticks. This helps me in feeling confident I know the characters to a word, rather than knowing the meaning to a character and thinking I got both things down.

Also, not to be rude or anything, but if practicing writing Kanji makes your brain go numb, then you're probably not going to succeed if you can't put some effort into learning this.

 

[PKrockin]

I was playing a JRPG last night (with no speech or furigana, just text), and at one point realized I had understood the entire 15-minute story sequence. Feels good man. It's all thanks to Memrise.

For some reason I'm way better at recalling words from JLPT lists than words I add from native material. Anyone else the same way?

 

[kubus]

You do know you're not limited to digital cards right? I've been practicing traditional/simplified hanzi and Kanji with flash cards I make myself. This way you don't have to use something that's confusing to you.

What I bought was blank flash cards, a one hole puncher, and metal book rings. What I do is write a keyword for one of characters on one side of the card, and then the character on the other side. An example would be 昇. I put "Rise up" on one side, then 昇 on the other side. What I want to look at is the keyword, and then see if I can write the character. If I can, I'll write it down like 5 times while saying "Rise up" so I can etch it into my memory. If I can't remember the character, I'll write it about 20 times while saying the meaning so hopefully it sticks. This helps me in feeling confident I know the characters to a word, rather than knowing the meaning to a character and thinking I got both things down.

Yeah maybe I should just go with traditional paper flash cards. Just feels like such a waste when there's an app for everything nowadays. But I'm spoiled . I also get around 50 new kanji each week so it's gonna take some time to make all the cards, but it'll probably be good practice too. Thanks for your input.

I've actually found an iOS app now called Kanji LS, that allows you to import your own kanji sets and it's really useful for testing writing kanji. It gives you the meaning (+ kana if you want) and then you have to draw it on the touch screen. When you review, you can check the stroke order with the correct answer and then you have to choose whether your answer was correct or not. Unfortunately it's not a "smart" program like Anki has Spaced Recognition for example, so you have to keep track of kanji that need more practise yourself. Hope they can improve that, then this would be exactly what I'm looking for.

Also, not to be rude or anything, but if practicing writing Kanji makes your brain go numb, then you're probably not going to succeed if you can't put some effort into learning this.

Yeah I couldn't really find the right words. I mean that if you just write down kanji for more than 30 minutes you don't really pay attention to the learning anymore and my hand just moves on its own. Know how sometimes when you read a text and after a while you realize you have no idea what you just read? I mean that sort of thing. That's why I was looking for or wondering if there was some sort of cool program or whatever to make it more stimulating. I'm motivated to learn kanji, but it sure can be boring

 

[snaffles]

Can anyone tell me if there is a good reason to switch from using the IME built into Windows over to the Google one? I have been studying Japanese using textfugu for a few months and just got to the chapter where he recommends using the Google IME, but he doesn't really state why it is better.
I have been using the Windows IME for the last few months oblivious to the fact that a Google IME existed, is it inherently better for any particular reason? Or am I better off just sticking with what I have already been using?

 

[Kansoku]

Yeah maybe I should just go with traditional paper flash cards. Just feels like such a waste when there's an app for everything nowadays. But I'm spoiled . I also get around 50 new kanji each week so it's gonna take some time to make all the cards, but it'll probably be good practice too. Thanks for your input.

I've actually found an iOS app now called Kanji LS, that allows you to import your own kanji sets and it's really useful for testing writing kanji. It gives you the meaning (+ kana if you want) and then you have to draw it on the touch screen. When you review, you can check the stroke order with the correct answer and then you have to choose whether your answer was correct or not. Unfortunately it's not a "smart" program like Anki has Spaced Recognition for example, so you have to keep track of kanji that need more practise yourself. Hope they can improve that, then this would be exactly what I'm looking for.

Well, that's close to what I did with RtK: I woud open up RtK and Anki, would read the kanji in RtK, think of a mnemonic, write the kanji on a note book while repeating the mnemonic, put it into Anki. Would do this until I had 120 new kanji (20 new kanji for the other 6 days of the week). Then on the other days I would revise it with AnkiDroid, that let's me draw on the screen and then I would compare what I drew with the kanji itself.

You can make it work, you just need to apply yourself.

 

[Tenck]

Can anyone tell me if there is a good reason to switch from using the IME built into Windows over to the Google one? I have been studying Japanese using textfugu for a few months and just got to the chapter where he recommends using the Google IME, but he doesn't really state why it is better.
I have been using the Windows IME for the last few months oblivious to the fact that a Google IME existed, is it inherently better for any particular reason? Or am I better off just sticking with what I have already been using?

I've used both. They're both good. Haven't found one thing they do better than the other.

Edit : The Google one is a bitch to set up though. Not sure if they changed that, but it's what I remember to be the most annoying thing ever.

 

[snaffles]

I've used both. They're both good. Haven't found one thing they do better than the other.

Edit : The Google one is a bitch to set up though. Not sure if they changed that, but it's what I remember to be the most annoying thing ever.

Okay thanks, I'll just stick with what I know then rather than bother having to configure a new one.

 

[CornBurrito]

I have a question relating to この、その、and あの.

Let's say I am given a worksheet with a list of items: meat/fish/vegetables.

I am asked to make a comparison between the three items. Ie. "Out of these three, vegetables are the cheapest"

I am too lazy to write out "肉と魚とやさいの中で" so I instead want to use "out of these foods."

＿＿食べ物の中で、やさいが一番やすいです。

Would I use この、その、or あの in this case?

My brain says この. But I could easily see it being その.

 

[Kansoku]

I have a question relating to この、その、and あの.

Let's say I am given a worksheet with a list of items: meat/fish/vegetables.

I am asked to make a comparison between the three items. Ie. "Out of these three, vegetables are the cheapest"

I am too lazy to write out "肉と魚とやさいの中で" so I instead want to use "out of these foods."

＿＿食べ物の中で、やさいが一番やすいです。

Would I use この、その、or あの in this case?

My brain says この. But I could easily see it being その.

It depends where they are. If they are near to who is speaking: この, if they are close to the who 'who's speaking' is speaking to: その. Away from both: あの

 

[CornBurrito]

It depends where they are. If they are near to who is speaking: この, if they are close to the who 'who's speaking' is speaking to: その. Away from both: あの

That's the thing. The objects don't actually exist. And the "who" are communicating through written word so distance is kind of iffy.

Imagine if I wrote you a note that just casually asked you which of the three was cheapest. The items in question exist only in your mind at the moment of reading the note. Perhaps later on I will use your answer to the note to actually go out and buy the items. Meanwhile, when I write the note you aren't in the room. And when you read the note I am not in the room.

 

[Kansoku]

That's the thing. The objects don't actually exist. And the "who" are communicating through written word so distance is kind of iffy.

Imagine if I wrote you a note that just casually asked you which of the three was cheapest. The items in question exist only in your mind at the moment of reading the note. Perhaps later on I will use your answer to the note to actually go out and buy the items. Meanwhile, when I write the note you aren't in the room. And when you read the note I am not in the room.

In the case of the note, I think it's この. It's like you write the answer on the paper. The speaker and the receiver are both close to the object (All of them are on the same place, the paper).

I think in that case この is more something that both parties know, その something that the receiver knows and あの something that both don't know.

この: "I'll go to that store next to the school we used to go"
その: "That console you bought, is it good?"
あの: "Have you heard about that girl in class 13?

That's the way I see it. Might be wrong tough (I'm basing this on Portuguese+the little I know about Japanese grammar, because in that case, they're really close (この = Este, その = Esse, あの = Aquele and they function pretty much the same from what I've seen).