I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Allllrigghhtttt then. Serious business, gaf is. Enjoy the read I guess.
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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese
- Thread starter RevenantKioku
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Ok, so I'm a total absolute noob. Tried a few times to learn Japanese, never got past the kanas. Needless to say, I don't want to annoy anybody, if my questions are too stupid, well feel free to say so (nicely please ^_^)
So I think I'm in the mood to retry learning the language but maybe... more seriously ? I mean I have a basic question and I feel its answer is important. So when I see kanas on the Internet, they generally are written in different ways. What is what, what is the correct way ? I get the feeling that the difference is comparable to the difference behind typed letters and written letters, but I would like confirmation on that.
These kanas
aren't exactly like these one
or even these ones
http://yosida.com/en/hiragana.html
Should I learn the basic clean way of writing ? The more elaborate one with the... added littles strokes ? I'm ok spending hours learning a totally new way of writing but I don't want to learn things that would be profoundly incorrect.
So I think I'm in the mood to retry learning the language but maybe... more seriously ? I mean I have a basic question and I feel its answer is important. So when I see kanas on the Internet, they generally are written in different ways. What is what, what is the correct way ? I get the feeling that the difference is comparable to the difference behind typed letters and written letters, but I would like confirmation on that.
These kanas
aren't exactly like these one
or even these ones
http://yosida.com/en/hiragana.html
Should I learn the basic clean way of writing ? The more elaborate one with the... added littles strokes ? I'm ok spending hours learning a totally new way of writing but I don't want to learn things that would be profoundly incorrect.
The guy quite snarky in a "too cool for school" way, but seems harmless, and is actually providing useful advice for people, so I think it's easy enough to ignore the snarkiness personally.
---
As someone else mentioned, just learn stroke order, and you'll pick up the play with each character later.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I've just got kana down myself, but yeah, the fonts are throwing me for a loop...like was reading through a manga for a bit of practice, and could barely make out most of the sound-effects...of course it's hard to know if I'm reading right when I'm unsure exactly what sound they're meant to be.
But even worse is small font size, like on a PSP game...how do people read really small Kanji? That seems extremely difficult.
I can't find it right now, but there was one resource I saw there it quizzed you on kana, AND you can activate different fonts to practice.
But even worse is small font size, like on a PSP game...how do people read really small Kanji? That seems extremely difficult.
I can't find it right now, but there was one resource I saw there it quizzed you on kana, AND you can activate different fonts to practice.
really small kanji is probably a mixture of recognising the 'shape' of a word even in tiny pixel form and also just contextually knowing what kind of kanji would be where in a given circumstance
今日本人と日本場所の名前は覚えるのが最も困難です。。。
今日本人と日本場所の名前は覚えるのが最も困難です。。。
Aizo
Banned
Hmm? Buy some books or manga (preferably books) on the kindle app. Pretty easy to do, and the built-in dictionary helps when you don't know words.
I'm so curious now.
lol not gonna lie, i also want to know this.
I didn't have time/energy to study much at all during the past three months because of working on my thesis, picked it back up today and I feel like I've forgotten how to write 90% of the 800 ish Kanji I learnedhopefully learning them a second time is easier.
I've been slowly letting learning go the past 5 months. I have no energy for it anymore. My motivation is drained and I have other things that are much more important. It sucks, seeing as I was 'learning' for 2 years, but honestly, I made no progression.
Good luck learning them, I'm sure you'll pick them up just fine.
I'm a little similar. When I'm taking classes, it gets really, really hard for me to study grammar, so I end up just doing my daily dose of vocab with Anki. What is happening though, is that I'm constantly listening to japanese music, reading the lyrics, watching anime, and I'm finding that just by being immersed, even though is not much, I'm learning a lot and get more used to it, so I still get motivated a little. Though my lack of progress on grammar is seriously frustrating, because I'm at a point where I can't actually do anything with it, and when I go back to study everything have that feel of familiarity, the feel of "I remember this, I kind don't need to study this hard", a feel that is kinda boring reviewing these points and I don't move anywhere. Now that my classes ended I'll try to go trough at least the majority of IMABI before my classes come back in August.
Immersion died on me very quickly. I was a huge anime fan for years, until I started learning Japanese. Then I dropped any interest in anime. I was in love with j-pop for years too, until I found korean pop. (This was a couple years ago.)
I tried to re-focus my motivation by using games, but it only works for so long. Reading manga isn't fun anymore either. Maybe I hit a road block in my life though.
It's become obvious at my work that my Japanese doesn't cut it, especially if I want to go 正社員 where I could be moved to any department.
So I'm going to pick up the books again too! Take N1 in December and perhaps the BJT or JTest before that.
Anyone know if there's any translation/interpretation qualifications one can work to?
So I'm going to pick up the books again too! Take N1 in December and perhaps the BJT or JTest before that.
Anyone know if there's any translation/interpretation qualifications one can work to?
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Wait, did your interest wane because you could understand them easier, or was it just a coincidence?
I'm still in the stage where, simply knowing all the kana now, suddenly every Japanese media I enjoy is taking on a new life.
Today I purchased one of those really nice Learn Kanji books, and want to get started on that---really nervous and unsure where to begin. Some say I should follow the order schoolchildren do, others say I should instead just try and learn the ones most necessary for getting by in Japan...
Aizo
Banned
What kind of job is this? Also, do many jobs look for BJT?
Just a coincidence, I suppose.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
they aren't - they are actually incredibly reasonable and a perfect way to get a job - hell, my current one is from their and, at this rate, my next one is likely to be from one too.
I'd add that my japanese isn't exactly fluent but i can hold down an IB job with it - i guess i have other things i can bring to the table, but it does show that even without being a fully fledged bilingual that it's possible to get a job through the fairs.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
This thread is filled with Japanese speaking/reading folks, right? Would anyone mind translating two short words/messages for me? I don't know if this is the thread for that so we can do it over pm if that would be better.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I think it's probably the most appropriate thread for that kind of thing. People have been known to request translations before. Post it here. I'm sure people would love to take a crack at it.
If no one else does, I'll (probably) translate it for you.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Looks like those are probably Chinese, but here are the characters in text form if you want to search for them:
"春山呈彩霞"
"良伴喜相依"
Google didn't have anything for the exact matches.
I'm no expert, but if I had to take a stab at it just from the individual meanings of the characters, I'd guess they might mean something like:
"Colorful haze covering the spring mountains"
"Good company makes for happy coexistence"
"春山呈彩霞"
"良伴喜相依"
Google didn't have anything for the exact matches.
I'm no expert, but if I had to take a stab at it just from the individual meanings of the characters, I'd guess they might mean something like:
"Colorful haze covering the spring mountains"
"Good company makes for happy coexistence"
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Thank you very much for your effort anyway! Those translations actually sound pretty accurate when taking their corresponding pictures into account.
Porcile
Member
Are you interested in being able to read the Kanji as well as writing it? I mean, I write down the characters I'm learning in a little notebook, but I'm not making a huge effort to know how to write them and know the strokes orders and all that stuff. That seems like years and years of serious dedication, more like BA and MA Japanese level stuff to me, rather than self-taught level.
I'm in the same boat as you, and I started using WaniKani, and while it starts out reeeeally slow, it is quite effective for learning how to read Kanji. With WaniKani they make a point that you wont be able to write it. It annoys me on principal that they don't give you the option. It feels like they're forcing their agenda on you, something which you should never do as a teacher, but I understand at least why they don't have it as an option. In that sense, I've accepted it's only going to get me to a certain level of practicality and that's fine.
The problem with just using books, I find, is that your motivation and desire to look through a book is going to fall off a cliff at some point. it happens to everyone, especially if you are self-taught. You have to find different ways of learning and absorbing information. You can't just read through a book once, and think you've got it, you need to look through that book three or four times, and who has the energy to look through a boring text book three or four times?
I'm doing HR at a university now, so meetings, helping students, talking to profs (esp on the phone) is all a little hard.
I don't think any company specifically looks for BJT, but it's another qualification to add to a list on one's resume.
bigmit3737
Member
What is BJT?
Thanks.
Got it. Buisness Japanese.
Didn't know they had a test for it.
Thanks.
Got it. Buisness Japanese.
Didn't know they had a test for it.
Is there a universal rule as to the difference between first person verbs and verbs that you do to others? I'm constantly getting confused between, like, 起こす (to wake someone else up) and 起こる (to wake up yourself), for instance.
Is it a conjugation ending I'm missing or something?
/edit wait, it's just passive form. Do'h.
Is it a conjugation ending I'm missing or something?
/edit wait, it's just passive form. Do'h.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I think you might be misunderstanding the difference.
起こす is a transitive verb （他動詞 -- たどうし）, which means the subject is performing the action on the object. These are verbs with which you can use を immediately before them (ex. 子供を起こす
.The intransitive verb form of 起こす (to wake someone up)（自動詞 -- じどうし） is 起きる, which indicates that the subject is performing an action that doesn't have a direct target. Typical particles that precede these verbs are は、が、と、に (ex. 子供が起きる
.起こる is another intransitive form, but it means "to happen/occur" (ex. 事件が起こる -- an incident occurs）. It can be a bit confusing, because 起こす is also used as the transitive verb for this meaning (ex. 事件を起こす -- cause an incident). Potentially even more confusing is that 起きる can also be used as the intransitive form for this meaning..
To sum it up:
起こす (transitive) = wake [someone] up, cause [something], etc.
起きる (intransitive) = wake up, happen/occur
起こる (intransitive) = happen/occur
I think you might be misunderstanding the difference.
起こす is a transitive verb （他動詞 -- たどうし）, which means the subject is performing the action on the object. These are verbs with which you can use を immediately before them (ex. 子供を起こす
The intransitive verb form of 起こす (to wake someone up)（自動詞 -- じどうし） is 起きる, which indicates that the subject is performing an action that doesn't have a direct target. Typical particles that precede these verbs are は、が、と、に (ex. 子供が起きる
起こる is another intransitive form, but it means "to happen/occur" (ex. 事件が起こる -- an incident occurs）. It can be a bit confusing, because 起こす is also used as the transitive verb for this meaning (ex. 事件を起こす -- cause an incident). Potentially even more confusing is that 起きる can also be used as the intransitive form for this meaning..
To sum it up:
起こす (transitive) = wake [someone] up, cause [something], etc.
起きる (intransitive) = wake up, happen/occur
起こる (intransitive) = happen/occur
Love posts like these. Thanks for helping out!
What's that?
Congrats man, I'm still at 6k and haven't added much in new cards in months due to life being hectic. At this rate I won't finish this thing until 2017.
List of vocab that originates from iknow.jp and other sources. Decks exist for Anki that include all the readings, sample sentences, audio, and images. It has been a huge help for me building up my vocab, and creating a set schedule/goal that I can shoot for.
Somehow I was able to stick to 20 new cards/day for the past 6 months. It didn't start to become overboard until about a month ago, but hopefully the reviews will taper off soon. There are a few words in KanjiBox not covered by 10k that I'd like to get into my Anki rotation, but after that I'm done with canned vocab lists. Will just add to my mined words/sentence deck as I go along.
I've been doing 6k for some time now, 15 new cards per day, and sometimes I love it because it helps, but often I feel there's a lack of information like if its (in)transitive, or what type of verb it is (godan/ichidan) and other stuff. there are cards that are too similar and it does not differentiate it enough (for example, 建設, 構造 and 建物 are translated as "construction, building", "construction, structure" and "building, structure" respectively.I have no idea what's the difference between then, tho I haven't searched for it), and the order is a little weird (I feel I should not have used the Core 2k/6k Optimized anki deck).
I really have to make a deck myself, but I generally don't have time to do it.
I really have to make a deck myself, but I generally don't have time to do it.
Production or Recognition?
I was able to do production on the first 2k words but after that there are just too many synonyms for me to answer correctly without a bunch of hints or memorizing a picture.
That sounds good, but I don't know if that will interfere in my grammar studies.
i'm already running like 7 anki decks so i probably shouldn't add more to that list for now @_@
besides, what I really need help with is some way to force me to do composition and speaking practice. Reading and even listening are getting easier but thinking on the fly is really goddamn difficult
besides, what I really need help with is some way to force me to do composition and speaking practice. Reading and even listening are getting easier but thinking on the fly is really goddamn difficult
Do not go from Engish to Japanese! One of the things about learning a foreign language is that you should stop thinking in your native language. If your learning method relies on your native language, yeah, no, bad idea. You should only use your native language at the very beginning of your studies, and try to switch to monolingual as soon as possible.
Learn words in sentences, with kanji. That'll cut down homophone issues.
My native language is Portuguese .-.
I plan on reversing it later on. When I did RtK it was the same thing. Started Kanji -> Keyword but it wasn't sticking, so I inverted it and was doing much batter. When I completed it I want back and did the initial order again, it was a lot easier to remember stuff.
What I really want to do but don't know enough to do (and neither do know if it would be effective) is a J -> J anki deck. Show the word and a phrase and put a (Japanese) dictionary definition of the word in the answer. It would require me to read the definition which would be pretty good overall, as it's way harder to memorize the "image" of the whole definition than to memorize the "image" of a simple word.
I need someone to talk to as well.
Hmm. Alright.
I recommend going to google images and putting in the Japanese word. It'll give you a bunch of pictures, with which you can illustrate your Anki card.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Gotta say, I'm surprisingly good at memorizing Kanji I've found---like the actual characters I seem to memorize pretty quick, and I've even begun to have Kanji dreams, but for the life of me the readings are tripping me up. I don't know if I'll ever get that down...but it's actually pretty fun just looking through Kanji and seeing how they combine to make words.
And damn, if the Kanji is small font my vision is so poor I have difficulty making them out. Although I guess this isn't limited to Japanese since games with small English text I have trouble with as well.
Oh, and question when it comes to politeness levels---for those of you who have interacted with actual Japanese speakers, did you find them to give you a bit of leeway with that since you're not a native, or are they pretty strict even towards foreigners when it comes to PLs?
And damn, if the Kanji is small font my vision is so poor I have difficulty making them out. Although I guess this isn't limited to Japanese since games with small English text I have trouble with as well.
Oh, and question when it comes to politeness levels---for those of you who have interacted with actual Japanese speakers, did you find them to give you a bit of leeway with that since you're not a native, or are they pretty strict even towards foreigners when it comes to PLs?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
As a general rule, almost all Japanese people will assume that your Japanese is nonexistent to terrible if you look at all like a foreigner.
There's next to zero chance that the person would be offended if your politeness levels are not correct, especially if it's obvious that you're not fluent.
There's next to zero chance that the person would be offended if your politeness levels are not correct, especially if it's obvious that you're not fluent.
Just speak how you want to speak. Do you wanna be polite? Speak politely. Do you wanna speak with the person casually? Speak casually. Words/verb endings =/= whether you are polite or not. It's what and how you say it.
You can say お前もメシ食うかい？ in the nicest voice you can make, it won't replace 鈴木部長もご飯を召し上がりますでしようか。
The first one is a great example of how to get demoted
The manliest way to get demoted.
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