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[Porcile]

I like George Trombley's verb conjugation explanation videos. I think there's one on Youtube, but the rest are on his paid-for site. Nice and simple patterns for conjugating and he uses layman terms for explaining what each stem does, rather than all that godan, ichidan, present/future positive. past negative, conditional, causative etc. I don't think like that in English so it's not going to help me learn it in Japanese. I don't even know what half that shit means.

I don't think my Japanese tutor isn't too impressed with his method, probably because she learned to teach in that ridiculous way, but when I spit out some mad conjugation with very little effort, I know she'll be a convert.

 

[Kilrogg]

I didn't mean to ignore this. I had no idea and learned a lot reading it. I just had nothing to add.

It's alright, man, glad you learned something. I always learn new things reading this thread too.

If you'd like to talk about it, feel free to send me a PM and we can talk over Skype or something. Again, it's hard to talk about this stuff in writing, and I love discussing it like a big nerd.

 

[shanshan310]

Have any of you ever reached a point in which a part of your study routine doesn't feel useful anymore? I've been doing Remembering the Kanji reviews in Anki for years now but it's starting to feel like it's not doing much for me anymore. I'm familiar with the characters enough to the point where I don't have much difficulty in remembering them in vocabulary I learn, so writing a character after seeing an English word just doesn't seem to do much for me anymore. It's not a skill I really have to ever use.

Part of me feels a bit of guilt about cutting out part of my routine, as if it's from laziness or something. I guess I'll have to keep thinking about it -- it just really doesn't seem worth doing anymore (especially with the amount that I dread doing it).

I feel like personally RTK is basically a stepping stone, a crutch that should fall away once you have the kanji in your memory and start seeing kanji and using it in context. Once you've got them down I don't see much point in continuing with flash cards. You probably don't need them. Plus who really needs to handwrite much nowadays anyway?

 

[upandaway]

That really sucks, they moved the JLPT place to an hour and a half away by car (I got no car), and it's in the middle of the semester, we're one of the once a year countries. I was gearing up to take N3 this time but man that sucks. Was 10 mins away last year.

Yeah I'm not taking it this year. Welp.

What I get for not taking it last time! Y'all don't procrastinate!

 

[urfe]

It's alright, man, glad you learned something. I always learn new things reading this thread too.

If you'd like to talk about it, feel free to send me a PM and we can talk over Skype or something. Again, it's hard to talk about this stuff in writing, and I love discussing it like a big nerd.

While I do find it interesting, it is honestly not the direction where my studying is going.

I basically feel comfortable enough to speak Japanese, and if I have an accent, so be it. I'm currently focusing on things like 謝る vs. 詫びる (which came up at work the other day), or 参考 vs. 参照 (a little more straight forward). I also learn mainly through experience, so my knowledge of rules is quite bad.

If you live in the Tokyo area, drinks (beers or tea) could be cool.

 

[Darksol]

Man, I'm really getting confused about verbs...

Found out that my resources are using inconsistent terminology...some use "U" and "Ru" verbs, while others use the apparently more correct "Godan" and "Ichidan" terms for them instead.

Beyond figuring that out I'm getting pretty overwhelmed looking at these massive conjugation charts.

If it's any consolation, Japanese has incredibly few irregular verbs. Learn the rules of conjugation and you'll be able to conjugate 99% of anything you ever come across, even if you don't know the word

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Yeah, it seems like it'll be easy once I get the rules down, but it's kind of intimidating and knowing where to start...

I still don't quite get the RU/U distinction. Would it be better to just learn which verbs are which individually?

 

[RangerBAD]

Yeah, it seems like it'll be easy once I get the rules down, but it's kind of intimidating and knowing where to start...

I still don't quite get the RU/U distinction. Would it be better to just learn which verbs are which individually?

Are you not using a book or anything?

 

[muteki]

Yeah, it seems like it'll be easy once I get the rules down, but it's kind of intimidating and knowing where to start...

I still don't quite get the RU/U distinction. Would it be better to just learn which verbs are which individually?

There are general guidelines.

Verb ends in anything but る? -> う-verb.

Verb ends in る but previous character ends in -a, -o, or -u? -> う-verb.

Verb ends in る but previous character ends in -i, -e? -> Need to memorize, could be either.

Not counting irregular verbs of course. I think there are different versions of this or similar in Genki or Tae Kim, not sure where I picked it up.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Are you not using a book or anything?

The books I have are all sort of weird with verbs, there's no solid section for them explaining it well but instead sort of just introduce the verbs on a one-by-one basis. Plus they use inconsistent terminology.

 

[Resilient]

Do yourself a favour and buy a book at the least. No point trying to learn scrappily through online resources when you can spend 30 bucks on something that will guide you (to start).

I recommend this series http://www.amazon.com/dp/4872177576/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Perhaps buy the Grammar version (bunpo).

 

[ethanny2]

Buy Genki 1 and and 2, those things are really helpful and easy to understand

 

[Resilient]

Buy Genki 1 and and 2, those things are really helpful and easy to understand

Actually, take this advice. Then buy the Challenge JLPT books when you're ready to take your first test. Genki is good for building your foundation. Stuff like Kanji etc can come later when you actually understand the grammar. Ask yourself - what good is knowing all these Kanji for verbs and grammar patterns you don't understand?

I personally like those better (Nihongo Challenge) because my groundwork is pretty strong, so when confronted with a JLPT book that is primarily in Japanese I don't feel swamped.

 

[Kilrogg]

While I do find it interesting, it is honestly not the direction where my studying is going.

I basically feel comfortable enough to speak Japanese, and if I have an accent, so be it. I'm currently focusing on things like 謝る vs. 詫びる (which came up at work the other day), or 参考 vs. 参照 (a little more straight forward). I also learn mainly through experience, so my knowledge of rules is quite bad.

If you live in the Tokyo area, drinks (beers or tea) could be cool.

Fair enough! I'm in Europe anyway. Besides, the kind of nuance you're talking about is actually one of my many blind spots. While I lived in Japan for a year, I've never worked there, so I never had to bother with the kinds of distinctions you mentioned. Good luck with that!

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I actually have Genki 1, but I don't really like it...it seems to sort of jump around and just throws a ton of vocabulary at me and doesn't really have a good progression. Like it seems to focus more on basic conversation stuff when I sort of want a more solid "okay, here's the most important grammar rules" to use and begin with before learning all the ways to say hello and tell the time.

 

[RangerBAD]

I actually have Genki 1, but I don't really like it...it seems to sort of jump around and just throws a ton of vocabulary at me and doesn't really have a good progression. Like it seems to focus more on basic conversation stuff when I sort of want a more solid "okay, here's the most important grammar rules" to use and begin with before learning all the ways to say hello and tell the time.

No, it works. It breaks up the different sentence closing conjugation pretty nicely. You need to start with the basics. You should get the workbooks too. Although my vocab isn't great, I plan to focus on it after Genki 2 along with more kanji.

 

[Jintor]

the only really important grammar rule to learn before saying hello and telling the time is a) every sentence needs at least one verb, even if it's just だ or です (or just implied, like あつ&#12356 and b) anything goes from there really

like, I have a basic grammar dictionary but what it's really good for is expanding on stuff you read in workbooks. If you just sit down at it and read you're just going to get lost

 

[muteki]

I actually have Genki 1, but I don't really like it...it seems to sort of jump around and just throws a ton of vocabulary at me and doesn't really have a good progression. Like it seems to focus more on basic conversation stuff when I sort of want a more solid "okay, here's the most important grammar rules" to use and begin with before learning all the ways to say hello and tell the time.

I would suggest sticking with Genki as well, though I started with it in university so I didn't have much choice.

If you just want a list of grammar rules I would look up Tae Kim's grammar guide. It's free and will definitely serve that purpose.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Biggest issue is a lot of Genki seems aimed for a classroom setting, and I don't really have anyone to practice with.

But---I'll try revisiting it. Another issue that's getting in my way is work---I have a decently physically intensive job somewhat, and work usually the middle of the day (11-8, or 2-10), so I find it hard to find the right time to really get down and do workbook studying. I guess sort of online reading and such is much easier for me, as often when I come home I don't have the stamina to really get out pen and paper. I need to get a nice 9-5 office job I think.

 

[RangerBAD]

Biggest issue is a lot of Genki seems aimed for a classroom setting, and I don't really have anyone to practice with.

But---I'll try revisiting it. Another issue that's getting in my way is work---I have a decently physically intensive job somewhat, and work usually the middle of the day (11-8, or 2-10), so I find it hard to find the right time to really get down and do workbook studying. I guess sort of online reading and such is much easier for me, as often when I come home I don't have the stamina to really get out pen and paper. I need to get a nice 9-5 office job I think.

I don't either, but I finally got a headset to try to find people (hopefully native speakers) to speak to on Skype.

 

[Kansoku]

Do try Tae Kim or Imabi (It's more in depth than Tae Kim, but I find it a little hard to follow. Maybe you will find it easier tho). You can do a "chapter" a day since they're somewhat short and I found that doing a summary of what was in the chapter really helps.

The important thing is maintaining a study flow. Try tour best to study every single day. Even if you only 10 minutes in a particular day, at least you can try to study a conjugation or something more simple, as long as you're learning something and using your time well. If I maintained the flow I had when I started I would be much better by now, but after 6 months of doing almost nothing and a year of trying some things to see if they sicked, it's hard to go back to it.

 

[Porcile]

If there's no workbook or practical exercises to go with a textbook or website then it's not even worth your time. I mean that for any form of learning, whether it's languages, programming, animation or whatever. If you can't put into practice what you're learning, you aren't going to learn anything. Simple as. It also helps to have exercises not written by yourself, because you're forced to use your brain in ways in which you haven't subconsciously tailored to your skills.

As for the speaking, it's interesting because speaking really reveals how little you know (as a new learner like myself). I found this out first hand the other day because I had a shocker of a lesson. The reason wasn't because I didn't understand the grammar , it's because up until that point I'd had an hour of speaking practice with someone other than myself. It wasn't even complicated, it was barely elementary grammar, and I was still fucking up. The truth is that there wasn't a reason except for lack of practice.

Having gone through that initial self-taught learning phase, if there's one thing I could tell anyone just starting out learning Japanese (or any language), then it would be to find someone to speak to, whether it's a tutor or a Skype buddy ASAP. Otherwise, you're going to reach a certain level and never get past it. I thought I could do the book thing and get "good" but it quickly dawned on me that I wouldn't even get past a basic level of fluency without speaking.

I don't know if others will agree with me but I feel like Japanese has easy early highs which can make you feel like you've accomplished a shit load in a very short amount of time ("I can read hiragana and katakana!" etc) and then very quickly the reality is that you've barely scratched the surface and face years of learning in front of you. It's kind of scary to be honest. I really don't know how long I can keep it up. My one major motivation goal is that I hope to move out there next year, and that will keep me going for the next couple months or while I do the job application. If that doesn't pan out, and there's a likely chance it won't pan out, then I honestly don't know how long I'll be able to keep it up. Japanese just doesn't feel like something you can casually learn or get good at without masses of practice.

 

[Resilient]

If there's no workbook or practical exercises to go with a textbook or website then it's not even worth your time. I mean that for any form of learning, whether it's languages, programming, animation or whatever. If you can't put into practice what you're learning, you aren't going to learn anything. Simple as. It also helps to have exercises not written by yourself, because you're forced to use your brain in ways in which you haven't subconsciously tailored to your skills.

As for the speaking, it's interesting because speaking really reveals how little you know (as a new learner like myself). I found this out first hand the other day because I had a shocker of a lesson. The reason wasn't because I didn't understand the grammar , it's because up until that point I'd had an hour of speaking practice with someone other than myself. It wasn't even complicated, it was barely elementary grammar, and I was still fucking up. The truth is that there wasn't a reason except for lack of practice.

Having gone through that initial self-taught learning phase, if there's one thing I could tell anyone just starting out learning Japanese (or any language), then it would be to find someone to speak to, whether it's a tutor or a Skype buddy ASAP. Otherwise, you're going to reach a certain level and never get past it. I thought I could do the book thing and get "good" but it quickly dawned on me that I wouldn't even get past a basic level of fluency without speaking.

I don't know if others will agree with me but I feel like Japanese has easy early highs which can make you feel like you've accomplished a shit load in a very short amount of time ("I can read hiragana and katakana!" etc) and then very quickly the reality is that you've barely scratched the surface and face years of learning in front of you. It's kind of scary to be honest. I really don't know how long I can keep it up. My one major motivation goal is that I hope to move out there next year, and that will keep me going for the next couple months or while I do the job application. If that doesn't pan out, and there's a likely chance it won't pan out, then I honestly don't know how long I'll be able to keep it up. Japanese just doesn't feel like something you can casually learn or get good at without masses of practice.

You seem to have a good handle at understand the cores of learning (not just learning Japanese). Yes, the textbook is essential Watch Da Birdie, even if it feels like it's useless. You may think you know all that stuff but when it comes to using it in practice, most of it just disappears from your brain lol. There is no "easy way" and the theory of "easy highs" is very real. I remember feeling this way many times when I started learning again, and then hitting a wall for about 6 months. It took going back to Japan, forcing myself to listen and practice speaking for me to break past it, and now I'm hitting highs again - but I know I will soon hit another wall.

The online stuff is good, but unless you sit aside time per day to to exercises, examples, quizzes, tests from a textbook, you are hindering yourself. The online stuff is a compliment to the fundamentals, there is no easy list of important grammar patterns because there are a lot of them, and they are all important. Start with the easy stuff, get it right EARLY and then challenge yourself.

One gripe I have with this thread is that a lot of people say "start learning Kanji ASAP!" - there is no point if you can't form sentences. Give yourself like 6 months of easy mode babby study then start looking at Kanji and stroke order. Your brain can only retain so much information at a time, no point trying to cram it early. Japanese takes years to learn as I imagine others in this thread can explain to us earlier-learners.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Japanese just doesn't feel like something you can casually learn or get good at without masses of practice.

It's not, and just like probably any language that is intrinsically tied to a mostly homogenous country and not used a whole lot internationally, learning the culture is *very* much a part of learning the language.

 

[urfe]

Here's some words that I learned last night having a conversation with a friend:

買いかぶる to overestimate, or build something up
束縛 そくばく restrained shackled
解剖 かいぼう dissection
理性 りせい reason

Dictionary history button is good for remembering conversations.

 

[eot]

I asked this somewhere else, but I think I'll ask here too, maybe someone can give a good answer

鬱な気分が吹っ飛ぶ画像ください

I take this to mean something along the lines of "please send me a picture to cheer me up". I'm confused about the literal meaning of this sentence though, because an intransitive verb modifying a noun is a little strange.

edit: "a picture that has the property of blowing bad mood away, please"?

窓を開けた猫
The cat that opened the window

窓が開いた猫
The cat that the window was opened by?
Or "the cat that made the window open itself"? That sounds like nonsense

Biggest issue is a lot of Genki seems aimed for a classroom setting, and I don't really have anyone to practice with.

But---I'll try revisiting it. Another issue that's getting in my way is work---I have a decently physically intensive job somewhat, and work usually the middle of the day (11-8, or 2-10), so I find it hard to find the right time to really get down and do workbook studying. I guess sort of online reading and such is much easier for me, as often when I come home I don't have the stamina to really get out pen and paper. I need to get a nice 9-5 office job I think.

It is, to a degree, but I would still say that the majority of the content in it is well suited for self study. Make sure you listen to the CDs too.

 

[RangerBAD]

One gripe I have with this thread is that a lot of people say "start learning Kanji ASAP!" - there is no point if you can't form sentences. Give yourself like 6 months of easy mode babby study then start looking at Kanji and stroke order. Your brain can only retain so much information at a time, no point trying to cram it early. Japanese takes years to learn as I imagine others in this thread can explain to us earlier-learners.

I'm just doing what's in the Genki books (in the back of the workbooks). I'm not putting a huge emphasis on it right now and just doing what the book wants me too. I'm not remembering all of them. You were talking about walls. My wall right now is listening (native speakers) and speaking and needing to find someone and probably vocabulary.

 

[Darksol]

I actually have Genki 1, but I don't really like it...it seems to sort of jump around and just throws a ton of vocabulary at me and doesn't really have a good progression. Like it seems to focus more on basic conversation stuff when I sort of want a more solid "okay, here's the most important grammar rules" to use and begin with before learning all the ways to say hello and tell the time.

Japanese for Busy People is much better. Every chapter builds on the previous and it places a fundamental focus on essential grammar and sentence structure.

I have no idea why Genki has a decent reputation. Literally every textbook I've encountered has been better. That being said, ideally you'd work through either of these series' in a classroom setting or with a tutor.

EDIT: can anyone tell me if what I wrote makes sense?

東京と大阪では全然反応が違いますね。日本人に対しても同じのような気がします。大阪の方はとってもフレンドリーです。

 

[bigmit3737]

Here's some words that I learned last night having a conversation with a friend:

買いかぶる to overestimate, or build something up
束縛 そくばく restrained shackled
解剖 かいぼう dissection
理性 りせい reason

Dictionary history button is good for remembering conversations.

Thanks this is useful. My illness has gotten bad recently so I haven't been able to study. ;(

 

[KillGore]

So I just finished learning Hiragana and Katakana. What next? Do I continue studying both of these writing systems in sentences or should I start with kanji? I can read hiragana and katakana but don't know how to form sentences yet; its structure.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Well, I got back into Genki---and well, yeah, it is helping me when I sat down with it a bit. I think I'm starting to get the verb conjugation down. Is it me, or does every example everywhere about verb conjugation use "Taberu" to explain it?

Here's a question I have: like with Taberu, the kanji is read as the "ta" part, and "beru" is in kana---but are there times when the kanji will just be written on its own, and I should read it as "taberu"? Or if I don't see the kana after it, should I assume it's using a different reading and isn't the verb?

So I just finished learning Hiragana and Katakana. What next? Do I continue studying both of these writing systems in sentences or should I start with kanji? I can read hiragana and katakana but don't know how to form sentences yet; its structure.

Can you write them yet?

I'd definitely learn to write them out (stroke order), because that'll help you read them quicker too and recognize them when they're not written in the normal font. Plus then you can impress your friends!

 

[Resilient]

I'm just doing what's in the Genki books (in the back of the workbooks). I'm not putting a huge emphasis on it right now and just doing what the book wants me too. I'm not remembering all of them. You were talking about walls. My wall right now is listening (native speakers) and speaking and needing to find someone and probably vocabulary.

True, you do need to get an early handle on the easier Kanji when you're starting.

When it comes to listening, options are limited. There are websites where you can find Native Japanease looking to practice English, and willing to teach Japanese. You can try those, I haven't used them myself but a friend has and I can grab her links for you.

If you can't do above...you can always watch anime. It's better than nothing (sometimes).

Well, I got back into Genki---and well, yeah, it is helping me when I sat down with it a bit. I think I'm starting to get the verb conjugation down. Is it me, or does every example everywhere about verb conjugation use "Taberu" to explain it?

Here's a question I have: like with Taberu, the kanji is read as the "ta" part, and "beru" is in kana---but are there times when the kanji will just be written on its own, and I should read it as "taberu"? Or if I don't see the kana after it, should I assume it's using a different reading and isn't the verb?

The verb is 食べます (to eat). The verb stem is 食べ. Depending on what comes after that is the type of verb. 食べ is Group 2.

The Kanji 食 pronounced しょく is a noun. Depending on what comes after forms other words (there are many, an example is 食堂　しょくどう which means "dining hall". So yea, it will be written on it's own, but when it is it won't be a verb.

 

[Resilient]

Japanese for Busy People is much better. Every chapter builds on the previous and it places a fundamental focus on essential grammar and sentence structure.

I have no idea why Genki has a decent reputation. Literally every textbook I've encountered has been better. That being said, ideally you'd work through either of these series' in a classroom setting or with a tutor.

EDIT: can anyone tell me if what I wrote makes sense?

東京と大阪では全然反応が違いますね。日本人に対しても同じのような気がします。大阪の方はとってもフレンドリーです。

Someone with more experience could comment, but I think you're trying to say

Tokyo and Osaka have a completely different response, right? Regarding Japanese people, they feel the same. People from Osaka are very friendly.

If that's the case, I would have written it differently. But I'll wait for someone with more experience to chime in. Haha. First sentence has a weird usage of では。Is とっても meant to be "very" or did you mean to write "I took"?

 

[RangerBAD]

True, you do need to get an early handle on the easier Kanji when you're starting.

When it comes to listening, options are limited. There are websites where you can find Native Japanease looking to practice English, and willing to teach Japanese. You can try those, I haven't used them myself but a friend has and I can grab her links for you.

If you can't do above...you can always watch anime. It's better than nothing (sometimes).

I've watched anime for a very long time and it's not the same as listening to a person speaking more naturally. Most people aren't talking as clearly. Thanks to anime I probably recognize a lot of words in speech though... when watching anime. lol

 

[stump sock]

if anything, you'd probably want to watch variety or interview shows. anime and news broadcasts aren't the way people actually talk in real-life situations.

 

[Resilient]

if anything, you'd probably want to watch variety or interview shows. anime and news broadcasts aren't the way people actually talk in real-life situations.

You're right, but I've never come across any that were subbed. Any suggestions? If there are some good ones it's a better route. I'd be interested.

I recommend you join a language exchange site first and foremost lol. Anime as an absolute better-than-nothing option.

 

[Porcile]

What about films? You know, those moving images with real people who talk and stuff? Go watch some Japanese films. I'd have to imagine that even though they are acting, it's going to be a more natural speaking style than anime. Japanese cinema is amazingly rich and diverse all the way from the 1930s to present day. There's a realist genre loosely defined as shoushimin-eiga (小市民映画 looked it up on Jisho.org. I guess the kanji literally means "small city people films"? ) which is solely focused around the everyday lives of regular, working class people. That's the old style, but these days there's Hirokazu Koreeda who is the modern day equivalent of the directors like Ozu and Naruse who worked in this genre in 40s, 50s and 60s. I mean, that's just one particular sub-genre of drama film, there are decades worth of outstanding Japanese films across every genre imaginable.

People always bring up anime as a listening tool, but I find films as a more useful learning tool rarely get a mention.

 

[Jintor]

What about films? You know, those moving images with real people who talk and stuff?

what

are you trying to trick me

 

[shanshan310]

You seem to have a good handle at understand the cores of learning (not just learning Japanese). Yes, the textbook is essential Watch Da Birdie, even if it feels like it's useless. You may think you know all that stuff but when it comes to using it in practice, most of it just disappears from your brain lol. There is no "easy way" and the theory of "easy highs" is very real. I remember feeling this way many times when I started learning again, and then hitting a wall for about 6 months. It took going back to Japan, forcing myself to listen and practice speaking for me to break past it, and now I'm hitting highs again - but I know I will soon hit another wall.

The online stuff is good, but unless you sit aside time per day to to exercises, examples, quizzes, tests from a textbook, you are hindering yourself. The online stuff is a compliment to the fundamentals, there is no easy list of important grammar patterns because there are a lot of them, and they are all important. Start with the easy stuff, get it right EARLY and then challenge yourself.

One gripe I have with this thread is that a lot of people say "start learning Kanji ASAP!" - there is no point if you can't form sentences. Give yourself like 6 months of easy mode babby study then start looking at Kanji and stroke order. Your brain can only retain so much information at a time, no point trying to cram it early. Japanese takes years to learn as I imagine others in this thread can explain to us earlier-learners.

I agree with all of this, especially the last bit. Kanji is not that important in the scheme of things early on compared to grammar and basic vocab. Furigana is there to help, but early on you aren't gonna be reading things with complex kanji anyway - especially if you don't understand the grammar or the meaning.

It doesn't help that the OP is full of heisig stuff so new learners click the thread and see that as the number 1 recommendation.

 

[Porcile]

what

are you trying to trick me

Watch out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dgLEDdFddk

To be fair, I understand that for many people, anime, manga, games and J-music are intrinsically linked to their desire to learn Japanese. Sometimes you have to branch out though, and well there are worse things you can do in life than watch some classic Japanese films. Some of which are the best of all time!

 

[shanshan310]

if anything, you'd probably want to watch variety or interview shows. anime and news broadcasts aren't the way people actually talk in real-life situations.

Youtubers can also be useful. The great thing about youtubers/variety shows/interviews is that for some reason Japan is really into putting massive bolded font everywhere so even if there are no subs you get the most important stuff written up on the screen anyway.

 

[stump sock]

Youtubers can also be useful. The great thing about youtubers/variety shows/interviews is that for some reason Japan is really into putting massive bolded font everywhere so even if there are no subs you get the most important stuff written up on the screen anyway.

I've always assumed the fascination with subtitles was to eliminate confusion with homonyms or dialects. but regardless, it's ended up making it drastically easier for me to follow what's going on when they're there.

 

[shanshan310]

I've always assumed the fascination with subtitles was to eliminate confusion with homonyms or dialects. but regardless, it's ended up making it drastically easier for me to follow what's going on when they're there.

aaah it could be the homonyms and stuff, that would make sense. They do also do it in Korean though that doesn't have the kanji problem so much. Might be for different reasons though. I wonder if even locals know why, lol.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

aaah it could be the homonyms and stuff, that would make sense. They do also do it in Korean though that doesn't have the kanji problem so much. Might be for different reasons though. I wonder if even locals know why, lol.

I'm not fluent in Korean, but as far as I can tell, they have the homonyms problem to a much worse degree, since they had a ton of vocabulary based on Kanji compounds, just like Japanese, but they more or less got rid of Kanji in daily use, so they have only their phonetic written language.

 

[RangerBAD]

if anything, you'd probably want to watch variety or interview shows. anime and news broadcasts aren't the way people actually talk in real-life situations.

I do watch a lot of Japanese gaming streams, but they can be pretty shy about talking. Ideally, I want to talk to someone when some degree of English, so I can possibly get things repeated if I'm not understanding. Or in other words I want to converse. TV shows aren't going to stop for you.

 

[eot]

I'm not fluent in Korean, but as far as I can tell, they have the homonyms problem to a much worse degree, since they had a ton of vocabulary based on Kanji compounds, just like Japanese, but they more or less got rid of Kanji in daily use, so they have only their phonetic written language.

Doesn't the fact that they were able to mostly get rid of Hanja indicate that it isn't as much of a problem? Korean has something like 10,000 syllables compared to 100-ish in Japanese. They use spaces in writing too.

 

[Darksol]

Someone with more experience could comment, but I think you're trying to say

Tokyo and Osaka have a completely different response, right? Regarding Japanese people, they feel the same. People from Osaka are very friendly.

If that's the case, I would have written it differently. But I'll wait for someone with more experience to chime in. Haha. First sentence has a weird usage of では。Is とっても meant to be "very" or did you mean to write "I took"?

Yeah, I wrestled with whether or not to use では 笑

I'm using とても in the normal "very" meaning of the word. Some of my friends in Japan like to throw a っin there occasionally to add emphasis. とっても. I'm sure it grammatically isn't correct

EDIT: Looked it up on jisho.org -- Apparently it's pretty common. Under their とても definition it mentions "っても is more emphatic"

 

[Resilient]

What about films? You know, those moving images with real people who talk and stuff? Go watch some Japanese films. I'd have to imagine that even though they are acting, it's going to be a more natural speaking style than anime. Japanese cinema is amazingly rich and diverse all the way from the 1930s to present day. There's a realist genre loosely defined as shoushimin-eiga (小市民映画 looked it up on Jisho.org. I guess the kanji literally means "small city people films"? ) which is solely focused around the everyday lives of regular, working class people. That's the old style, but these days there's Hirokazu Koreeda who is the modern day equivalent of the directors like Ozu and Naruse who worked in this genre in 40s, 50s and 60s. I mean, that's just one particular sub-genre of drama film, there are decades worth of outstanding Japanese films across every genre imaginable.

People always bring up anime as a listening tool, but I find films as a more useful learning tool rarely get a mention.

you can watch anything in Japanese, I only mentioned anime as a last resort because of the subs. As with anything new subbed they are sometimes more localisations, and you get that with movies too. As long as you're hearing the language it doesn't really matter what your watch. Japanese movies can be a pain to get your hands on depending where you live. It's sometime I'd like to get into a bit more, but is pretty expensive to shell out for (where I am).

 

[Porcile]

you can watch anything in Japanese, I only mentioned anime as a last resort because of the subs. As with anything new subbed they are sometimes more localisations, and you get that with movies too. As long as you're hearing the language it doesn't really matter what your watch. Japanese movies can be a pain to get your hands on depending where you live. It's sometime I'd like to get into a bit more, but is pretty expensive to shell out for (where I am).

I think films are nice because you're going hear a wide range of natural voices but delivered in quite a succinct and clear way. Also, I bet there's a shit load of old Japanese radio dramas on Youtube too. Might be good to get them on in the background.

 

[RangerBAD]

I think films are nice because you're going hear a wide range of natural voices but delivered in quite a succinct and clear way. Also, I bet there's a shit load of old Japanese radio dramas on Youtube too. Might be good to get them on in the background.

2,500 for the Kurosawa Collection on Amazon (normal price was 400, but it's out of print). Obviously a seller. lol