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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese

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RangerBAD

Member
The problem with watching something is that it's actually doing very little for your actual speaking skills, but it for sure should help with listening.
 
Sure, post!

0e20537716.jpg
 

clem84

Gold Member
In the audio program I'm going through, at some point it says that, when talking about a refrigerator, saying

どんな特徴はあるのですか?

makes the question stronger than simply saying どんな特徴はありますか?

Can someone explain this to me? What do they mean by stronger? What is the difference between saying あるのですか and ありますか? Does it mean that you're being more direct? More insistent?
 

Resilient

Member
Mm good question and I hope someone with more experience can give a good answer that's easy to understand.

As far as I'm aware, when you answer with ん or の at the end of your plain form, it just emphasises it. The best way to remember it is with it's more common usage of making the verb the reason why you're doing something. For example:

どうして急いでいる?
Why are you rushing?

フランクに会うのです。
(Because) I'm meeting Frank.

Confusing? That's cause it is lol. の at the end of a verb also makes it a gerund (verb that is noun, think -ing form) which is different to what you're probably used to seeing as ~ている。I won't confuse you any more haha.

So in your instance, どんな特徴はあるのですか? potentially means "What are the characteristics (that make this fridge great)?" Rather than どんな特徴はありますか? "What are the characteristics (of this fridge. List them)"

If someone else can explain this better, I'd also appreciate it!
 

Jintor

Member
In the audio program I'm going through, at some point it says that, when talking about a refrigerator, saying

どんな特徴はあるのですか?

makes the question stronger than simply saying どんな特徴はありますか?

Can someone explain this to me? What do they mean by stronger? What is the difference between saying あるのですか and ありますか? Does it mean that you're being more direct? More insistent?

Second is more polite (います form). The first is more akin to providing a reason or asking for a reason cos of the ある の. Basically like Reselient says - it's asking for a reason. "What characteristics does it have (that might make me want to buy it / that might make it so great / that would... etc)"
 

urfe

Member
In the audio program I'm going through, at some point it says that, when talking about a refrigerator, saying

どんな特徴はあるのですか?

makes the question stronger than simply saying どんな特徴はありますか?

Can someone explain this to me? What do they mean by stronger? What is the difference between saying あるのですか and ありますか? Does it mean that you're being more direct? More insistent?

Outside of the actual difference, it also sounds a little softer and more personal to me. I use のですか a lot in mails when I have a request because ますか seems too straight to me personally.

I think I learned there's 3 or 4 specific uses of ん/の, but I couldn't list them off. I say 行くんだ when confirming, 買いたいんですが when buying, and あるのでしょうか when asking in the office.
 

Resilient

Member
Outside of the actual difference, it also sounds a little softer and more personal to me. I use のですか a lot in mails when I have a request because ますか seems too straight to me personally.

I think I learned there's 3 or 4 specific uses of ん/の, but I couldn't list them off. I say 行くんだ when confirming, 買いたいんですが when buying, and あるのでしょうか when asking in the office.

Do you have an example for when you would use あるのでしょうか ? Like an example exchange between some people?
 

Jintor

Member
Do you have an example for when you would use あるのでしょうか ? Like an example exchange between some people?

Isn't that more like, "I wonder if that's here...?" So, like, if you're looking for something. ペンがあるのでしょうか?
 

Resilient

Member
Isn't that more like, "I wonder if that's here...?" So, like, if you're looking for something. ペンがあるのでしょうか?

Right, makes sense! Practical examples always make these things stick better for me. I think I'm a really lazy English speaker .. Lol. Comes with being an Aussie I think.
 

urfe

Member
Do you have an example for when you would use あるのでしょうか ? Like an example exchange between some people?

じゃ、会議を始めたいと思います。みなさんは資料があるのでしょうか。

---

ホームページを更新したいのですが、やり方がわかるのでしょうか。

---
A: ここにお名前を記入して、提出してね
B: あ、ペン持ってきてない。すみません、あるのでしょうか。

Please note I'm a non-native speaker who can't pass N1, so take what I say with a big grain of salt.
 

Bullza2o

Member
I've been on and off self-studying Japanese for a couple of years now. I wanted to learn kanji more seriously so I started Wanikani this year. I am about to finish level 2. Does anyone know if it's worth to subscribe?

I felt like it helped me memorize the kanji/vocab I've learned so far. It has been fun as well. Of course if I subscribe I'll have to focus on it more and not go on a hiatus.

Is there also a LINE for this group?
 

Gacha-pin

Member
In the audio program I'm going through, at some point it says that, when talking about a refrigerator, saying

どんな特徴はあるのですか?

makes the question stronger than simply saying どんな特徴はありますか?

Can someone explain this to me? What do they mean by stronger? What is the difference between saying あるのですか and ありますか? Does it mean that you're being more direct? More insistent?

To me, there is not a big difference between them in this context. Technically, to answer the former one, you have to explain specific features that the fridge has but the latter one is just a simple yes/no question. It's easy to guess that the questioner expects more than yes/no answers in this context though. When you can't tell which to use, the latter one is the best bet.

The more important thing in these sentences are you can't say どんな特徴はありますか(あるのですか)? You have to say どんな特徴がありますか(あるのですか)? If there isn't どんな here, は is possible.
 

clem84

Gold Member
Thanks for all the replies! Didn't expect so many. As I understand it, imasuka is a general "is there?" question but with aru no desu ka, you're asking for specifics.

The more important thing in these sentences are you can't say どんな特徴はありますか(あるのですか)? You have to say どんな特徴がありますか(あるのですか)? If there isn't どんな here, は is possible.

Got it. When you're asking "What kind of...", you're asking to identify something, hence the use of が. That's my understanding of it anyway.
 

RangerBAD

Member
I learned that when you're asked in ん/の you reply using it and that you use it when giving a reason/explanation (like people have said). Rather than stating something as an observation/report/fact. Don't know of a parallel in English other than maybe emphasis intonation?
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
I was watching this video about Satoru Iwata's death and accomplishments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MjjP6YTpMs

And I wondered: are there any good Japanese shows about video games? I know there's Game Center CX, but aside from that.

I realized I would be more inclined to pick up Japanese again and improve my listening comprehension and vocabulary if only I could find shows about something I like.
 

RangerBAD

Member
I was watching this video about Satoru Iwata's death and accomplishments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MjjP6YTpMs

And I wondered: are there any good Japanese shows about video games? I know there's Game Center CX, but aside from that.

I realized I would be more inclined to pick up Japanese again and improve my listening comprehension and vocabulary if only I could find shows about something I like.

Tokyo Encounter is what it's called. There's also the Gackt playthroughs. https://www.youtube.com/user/nestlewmc/playlists

You're thinking of Tokyo Encounter, hilarious show btw

I just thought of it as you replied. lol
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Interesting stuff. I had no idea GACKT even played video games, much less did Let's Plays. Gonna have to check some of those out. How surreal.
 
I thought it was pretty common knowledge that he was a gamer, but it's still kind of funny to watch him play games while exhibiting no emotions whatsoever

also he plays Crisis Core because of course he does
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I thought it was pretty common knowledge that he was a gamer, but it's still kind of funny to watch him play games while exhibiting no emotions whatsoever

also he plays Crisis Core because of course he does

I admit that I don't know a ton about the guy, but he just never gave me that impression.

Although he did star in that PS2 game a long time ago... and has obviously been a huge inspiration to Nomura when it comes to Final Fantasy character designs.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Just got back from vacation and it feels like all the Japanese I'd steadily been learning just left my head. :(

Like I'm having trouble recognizing hiragana and katakana today, which is something I'd regularly been practicing.
 

Resilient

Member
Just got back from vacation and it feels like all the Japanese I'd steadily been learning just left my head. :(

Like I'm having trouble recognizing hiragana and katakana today, which is something I'd regularly been practicing.

Well yeah. I wanna meet the person that memorises a languages alphabet in a month and doesn't struggle to read it after not looking at it for a few weeks lol. Japanese isn't an overnight language.
 

Resilient

Member
じゃ、会議を始めたいと思います。みなさんは資料があるのでしょうか。

---

ホームページを更新したいのですが、やり方がわかるのでしょうか。

---
A: ここにお名前を記入して、提出してね
B: あ、ペン持ってきてない。すみません、あるのでしょうか。

Please note I'm a non-native speaker who can't pass N1, so take what I say with a big grain of salt.

Not a problem! Thanks for these, I missed your reply. I always find it easier to retain that stuff when there's a good practical example.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
One thing I've noticed is that I'm slowly getting better at viewing the Kanji as their individual components, even with smaller font. At first everything looked the same, but now I'm able to see the radicals and such more clearly.
 

muteki

Member
One thing I've noticed is that I'm slowly getting better at viewing the Kanji as their individual components, even with smaller font. At first everything looked the same, but now I'm able to see the radicals and such more clearly.

I always thought it pretty interesting, your mind gets better at filling in the missing details as time goes on and you learn more Kanji.

Helps on lower-resolution devices like 3DS/PSP especially.
 

Resilient

Member
One thing I've noticed is that I'm slowly getting better at viewing the Kanji as their individual components, even with smaller font. At first everything looked the same, but now I'm able to see the radicals and such more clearly.

That was the only part of RTK that I liked. I thought the rest was BS. I learn enough daily with my job and learning the actual language, I don't need to fill my head with any more unnecessary info (stories for each kanji)....
 

Porcile

Member
That was the only part of RTK that I liked. I thought the rest was BS. I learn enough daily with my job and learning the actual language, I don't need to fill my head with any more unnecessary info (stories for each kanji)....

Mnemonics are so damn useful for quickly learning vocab though. I do try to ditch them as soon as possible, but they are great for temporarily sticking things in your head until you're able to remember them without the mnemonic through repetition. I try to make them as ridiculous and obscene as possible.

Hard to forget stuff like: "That strange man has a "きゅうり"(add "ous" to fill in the gap so it ends up as "curious") looking "cucumber".
 

Resilient

Member
Mnemonics are so damn useful for quickly learning vocab though. I do try to ditch them as soon as possible, but they are great for temporarily sticking things in your head until you're able to remember them without the mnemonic through repetition. I try to make them as ridiculous and obscene as possible.

Hard to forget stuff like: "That strange man has a "きゅうり"(add "ous" to fill in the gap so it ends up as "curious") looking "cucumber".

Roughly 1800-2200 mnemonics isn't practical though, and you don't learn the Japanese reading of it so it's not practical for learning the language. Then you need to do RTK 2 and 3 to get the rest out of them, and at that point you've spent a lot of time learning how to remember the Kanji and less time boosting your reading and speaking vocab, not to mention your grammar skills. But if it works for you, go with it.
 

Porcile

Member
Roughly 1800-2200 mnemonics isn't practical though, and you don't learn the Japanese reading of it so it's not practical for learning the language. Then you need to do RTK 2 and 3 to get the rest out of them, and at that point you've spent a lot of time learning how to remember the Kanji and less time boosting your reading and speaking vocab, not to mention your grammar skills. But if it works for you, go with it.

Oh, I don't use RTK so I have no idea how it makes use of mnemonics. Wanikani uses them (I assume it's similar, but you do get a reading at least) and I only use the mnemonics if i'm really struggling to remember what it means. Besides, when I'm trying to recall something I'm not scouring my brain for the whole story, I'm just looking for a single trigger word which pops up when I see a character. Maybe it's in conjunction with the radicals as well, maybe it's just a kanji character on its own. Either way, it's all the same very quick process. I can't remember whole, sentence long stories. That would be crazy - haha.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
So, weird question...

Bat 蝙蝠 and Mantis 螳螂 are both comprised of two Kanji. Both 蝙 and 蝠 mean "bat", and the first Kanji alone can be read as "koumori". Likewise 螳 and 螂 both seem to mean "mantis", and none of the readings for them seem like you'd get "kamikiri" out of them together.

Why the repetition of the Kanji when it seems like one Kanji could suffice? Like 螳 doesn't seem to be used for any other word other than when it's part of 螳螂, so why is the additional Kanji needed? Or is this just a weird quirk no one really knows the answer to.
 

Darksol

Member
So, weird question...

Bat 蝙蝠 and Mantis 螳螂 are both comprised of two Kanji. Both 蝙 and 蝠 mean "bat", and the first Kanji alone can be read as "koumori". Likewise 螳 and 螂 both seem to mean "mantis", and none of the readings for them seem like you'd get "kamikiri" out of them together.

Why the repetition of the Kanji when it seems like one Kanji could suffice? Like 螳 doesn't seem to be used for any other word other than when it's part of 螳螂, so why is the additional Kanji needed? Or is this just a weird quirk no one really knows the answer to.

I don't know the answer to your question. What I can say, however, is that both of those words are usually written in kana alone, and you really have no need to learn the kanji for them unless you have some special reason to do so :p
 

Resilient

Member
So, weird question...

Bat 蝙蝠 and Mantis 螳螂 are both comprised of two Kanji. Both 蝙 and 蝠 mean "bat", and the first Kanji alone can be read as "koumori". Likewise 螳 and 螂 both seem to mean "mantis", and none of the readings for them seem like you'd get "kamikiri" out of them together.

Why the repetition of the Kanji when it seems like one Kanji could suffice? Like 螳 doesn't seem to be used for any other word other than when it's part of 螳螂, so why is the additional Kanji needed? Or is this just a weird quirk no one really knows the answer to.

This is a strange question. If only I'm an expert was around to answer this. While you wait for an answer you should try reading simple stuff and learning relevant Kanji.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
This is a strange question. If only I'm an expert was around to answer this. While you wait for an answer you should try reading simple stuff and learning relevant Kanji.

Yeah.

I understand the fact that this isn't really practical Japanese, it just caught my eye. I have actually been learning a lot of relevant Kanji through Genki and learning the basic verbs.
 

Resilient

Member
I think Darksol answered it best. You'll see 蝙蝠, but more likely to see just こうもり and とうろう. I'm an expert would likely have an answer to your question but he's banned.
 

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
So, weird question...

Bat 蝙蝠 and Mantis 螳螂 are both comprised of two Kanji. Both 蝙 and 蝠 mean "bat", and the first Kanji alone can be read as "koumori". Likewise 螳 and 螂 both seem to mean "mantis", and none of the readings for them seem like you'd get "kamikiri" out of them together.

Why the repetition of the Kanji when it seems like one Kanji could suffice? Like 螳 doesn't seem to be used for any other word other than when it's part of 螳螂, so why is the additional Kanji needed? Or is this just a weird quirk no one really knows the answer to.


It is just a name. Completely arbitrary. Just memorise and move on.
 
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