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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese
- Thread starter RevenantKioku
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Mistake
Member
I'm about in the same spot. I've already learned kana, but the most I can do on vocab is study from my dictionary. I've decided to get into the Heisig material for kanji (eventually), but I'll have to pick up the grammar dictionaries. I feel like I could kill two birds with one stone though using my Kotoba! app on my ipod http://kotoba.pierrephi.net/ On there I could study by grade level, learn the kanji and the multiple readings (like the vocab I don't know). Any thoughts? I think this way I would feel like I'm making more progress.Oooh, see if someone can get you a Japanese book for christmas
I would say learn the kana before you do anything else, but do focus a bit more on grammar and vocab before you get down to kanji.
shanshan310
Member
I learn a lot of new vocab this way. It really helped ^^
Using a dictionary to learn words and grammar is a more difficult way of learning. For one thing, its grouped in alphabetical order and not based on difficulty or usefulness. My grammar dictionary has been useful mostly when I come across a pattern I don't know - and in that way its really handy. I'd be careful. They are primarily meant as a reference tool more than a learning source. This online grammar guide has been really good, and it does have everything ordered by what is easy and important.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Anyone serious about learning Japanese should really invest in a nice electronic dictionary.
Mistake
Member
Ah, thanks a ton for that. I don't have internet at home, so the pdf on there is especially useful. Once I feel confident in my vocab, I'll go on to Heisig then =D
shanshan310
Member
Truth, and the genius one for DS is pretty good.
Does anyone know much about these kanji flashcards? They look like a really good study tool but with postage I'm looking at around $100 for them :s
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That one is decent enough, but it comes with the huge disadvantage of having to carry around a DS and keep that cartridge in at all times for it to be of much use.
A dedicated electronic dictionary that you can keep in your pocket is really the way to go. That way you can pull it out and quickly look something up whenever you want or need to.
Any recommendations for android/IOS apps?
I've seen this two in the android market, both are free and look good enough.
https://market.android.com/details?id=sk.baka.aedict&feature=search_result
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.umibouzu.jed&feature=search_result
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Both look fine, but I stand by my statement that you should get a dedicated electronic dictionary if you're serious about studying. Being able to whip out a dictionary and look up something immediately was a huge advantage. Anything that slows that process down or limits what you can do will greatly diminish the advantage of a dictionary.
shanshan310
Member
Also, a good electronic dictionary often gives a much better explanation than a phone app (which usually shows a one word translation and has a more limited vocabulary).
Etrian Oddity
Member
I need to remember to download Gijiten for my Linux computer...
Anyways, I beasted my Japanese 1 final. Can't wait for Jpn 2 next semester!
Anyways, I beasted my Japanese 1 final. Can't wait for Jpn 2 next semester!
you could also use gwaei
Angelus Errare
Banned
I generally agree on the dedicated dictionary thing. But honestly, if you have an iOS device, do yourself a favor and download Midori. Easily the best Japanese dictionary on Appstore. You can search for kanji by radical, drawing it, or romanji. It will then show you the word, what it means, root word, and a shitload of sentences using the word in various ways. It will also show you common uses for the kanji along with compound words that have the kanji in it.
I think the developer said he's going to attempt to add in camera based kanji recognition. He also added SRS flash cards based on the a few different ways (Japanese grade school, JPLT, Hesig.)
Screen (mine) below
Sorry for the wall of pics just wanted to show the app in use.
I think the developer said he's going to attempt to add in camera based kanji recognition. He also added SRS flash cards based on the a few different ways (Japanese grade school, JPLT, Hesig.)
Screen (mine) below
Sorry for the wall of pics just wanted to show the app in use.
shanshan310
Member
aww man, that app looks awesome. You know if they have anything similar for android?
Can anyone recommend me a good, text-heavy game to play in Japanese? I'm at about an N3 reading level and I want to incorporate more reading into my leisure time. For reference, I was able to play and comprehend LTTP in Japanese pretty comfortably, so I'm looking for something maybe around that level or a little harder.
Lord Ghirahim
Member
The Zelda series is always good for your level. I think all the text is rubi-tsuki in Zelda games released in the past ten years too.
Maybe a Dragon Quest game? For instance DQ IX on the DS has furigana everywhere so you'll never have a problem reading all the kanji.
千漢字！
I have arrived at the 1000 kanji mark! Now I think I'll keep my focus on the kanji, until it's finished. I changed my routine a bit, now I don't write all the characters every time, only if it's one that I don't remember well, and my reviews have been cut to half the time!.
That midori app seems awesome. I've tried the android dictionaries, and the only good one is Aedict . It does the same as midori, but it does not give the compounds (Although if you look up the kanji, it will give you all the sample sentences with that kanji alone or with more kanjis, so it's a sort of "compound").
I just found out that Obenkyo gives you all the compounds of a given kanji! But since it's not a dictionary, it does not have sample sentences, and it only gives a translation. In any case, with Obenkyo and Aedict you are quite covered to look for japanese words. But I agree that it's going to be a bit troublesome.
Also, I've been reading stuff at AJATT . It seems a nice plan to study japanese, but the part of "you don't need any grammar, only sentences" seems a bit weird. I'll probably continue with Genki for a bit of grammar and vocabulary once I finish this, then the sentence thing will make more sense (and it will probably be better than studying a list of words without context).
I have arrived at the 1000 kanji mark! Now I think I'll keep my focus on the kanji, until it's finished. I changed my routine a bit, now I don't write all the characters every time, only if it's one that I don't remember well, and my reviews have been cut to half the time!.
That midori app seems awesome. I've tried the android dictionaries, and the only good one is Aedict . It does the same as midori, but it does not give the compounds (Although if you look up the kanji, it will give you all the sample sentences with that kanji alone or with more kanjis, so it's a sort of "compound").
I just found out that Obenkyo gives you all the compounds of a given kanji! But since it's not a dictionary, it does not have sample sentences, and it only gives a translation. In any case, with Obenkyo and Aedict you are quite covered to look for japanese words. But I agree that it's going to be a bit troublesome.
Also, I've been reading stuff at AJATT . It seems a nice plan to study japanese, but the part of "you don't need any grammar, only sentences" seems a bit weird. I'll probably continue with Genki for a bit of grammar and vocabulary once I finish this, then the sentence thing will make more sense (and it will probably be better than studying a list of words without context).
Sorry I missed this, yeah in Tokyo Japan...we are actually hiring too which is nearly miraculous!
I would almost recommend manga over games for learning, games have too many strange pronouns that will throw you off and manga have more er...real life style conversations in some of them at least...even like Crayon Shinchan is probably better than most games in that way even though it is South Park level toilet humor
Looks good. Do each compounds have a similar amount of examples as 乗り越える? I think I should try this app.
シルバー事件 a text heavy game (PS1 released in 1999), no voice over but you can read the texts with your pace.
It's an interesting psycho-thriller story with a sense of stagnation in the end of the century (or the millennium). I think "the end of the century" thing might be so cheap if you play it today but I remember I enjoyed its contemporaneous-ish story a lot.
This game has a sequel called 花と太陽と雨と Flower, Sun and Rain. IIRC, シルバー事件 was released in Japan only but the sequel was released in the west along with Japan.
Or try some JP version western games? I heard TESV got a good localization.
I think ドラえもん is good since we use ドラえもん Doraemon reference here and there in a conversation.
Lostconfused
Member
I got the 1st and 2nd sets of those. But only went through most of the 1st set. I am not sure in what order they are organized but I guess it's similar to any other kind of kanji study tool. Probably by how common/useful the kanji is or how easy it might be to learn. They do give multiple readings per kanji and several common phrases or common combinations. But it doesn't indicate what's the most common use or anything like that.
So for me starting out with it was a bit of an information overload, which they do advise against. All in all I would they are a physical set of flash cards no better or worse really than any other study tool like anki. Really it all depends on you to make the best of it.
Edit: I would recommend playing or reading anything you like. Personally for me it takes too much effort to read or play anything that I don't enjoy and usually I don't have enough motivation to keep at it. Although yes it does also skew my learning into some less than useful or awkward directions. Although playing Skyrim in Japanese is certainly an idea, haha.
vas_a_morir
Banned
I recently switched my approach to learning Japanese from a scholarly approach to a more practical approach I call the sentence method. The focus is on learning sentences to load into your kaiwa gun a blast in a Japanese persons face. Over time, you come to learn the why's and how's. For my purposes, I'd rather be that guy who can use the language than that guy who can pass jlpt1 but can't stutter though a natural sounding conversation. (they exist)
Like I said, it works best for me. Listening to a native Japanese person and mimicking them over and over. I usually switch up methods and focuses every few months to keep things fresh.
Like I said, it works best for me. Listening to a native Japanese person and mimicking them over and over. I usually switch up methods and focuses every few months to keep things fresh.
Everyone learns in different ways, for myself I learn a lot better by writing the characters so I would write them over and over (with a good ol pencil or mechanical pencil) until the side of my hand would be completely black.
They sell these sheets of paper for practicing kanji in Japan and I got one from a teacher and made like 400 copies of it, and repeated the process over and over. I think the gadgets and apps have improved an amazing amount in the last 10 years, but there's something to be said about the act of actually writing the kanji with a pencil.
They sell these sheets of paper for practicing kanji in Japan and I got one from a teacher and made like 400 copies of it, and repeated the process over and over. I think the gadgets and apps have improved an amazing amount in the last 10 years, but there's something to be said about the act of actually writing the kanji with a pencil.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Something I just thought of to help people learn Japanese...twitter! Follow Japanese users, or at least celebrities so you don't look creepy lol. I'd say stick with Japanese celebrities who don't use alot of slang (so boy bands are no buenos!) also try to follow those of the same gender
Yes sir, there are a crapload of examples for basically every thing. I honestly have yet to run into a word that didn't have example sentences galore. I found another cool feature is you can bookmark words, and phrases and make your own deck of cards using SRS. It's also got quite a few card stacks, one based on common words broken down by: Japanese grade level, JLPT, etc. kanji as well
It's honestly the best Japanese learning app hands down. Should make for an excellent electronic dictionary replacement/companion on iPhone.
. Not that I'm aware of of this quality
Yes sir, there are a crapload of examples for basically every thing. I honestly have yet to run into a word that didn't have example sentences galore. I found another cool feature is you can bookmark words, and phrases and make your own deck of cards using SRS. It's also got quite a few card stacks, one based on common words broken down by: Japanese grade level, JLPT, etc. kanji as well
It's honestly the best Japanese learning app hands down. Should make for an excellent electronic dictionary replacement/companion on iPhone.
shanshan310
Member
I find hand writing kanji to be really relaxing actually. One of my favourite things to do.
It works for some people, but this is a really good way to pick up bad rules. The thing is, if you make a mistake in conversation people (especially Japanese people) tend not to correct you, so you then think its correct. You mind then begins to apply this "rule" your brain formed to similar situations, which may or not be correct (I started adding だ in to a lot of places where it shouldn't have gone, for example, after hearing it in conversation). Once you've formed this rule though, its really hard to correct - even after you realise its wrong (In conversation I still accidentally add だ in out of habit, then have to correct myself). You don't have to be a grammar nerd, and you don't have to be the guy who can write 2000 kanji but have trouble in day to day conversation, but if you can just look over the grammar patterns and understand them (it doesn't take long) you will have a much easier time further down the track. I know the aim right now is easy communication, but you will get to a point where if you can speak fairly well, Japanese people might get annoyed at you making basic grammar mistakes.
It works for some people, but this is a really good way to pick up bad rules. The thing is, if you make a mistake in conversation people (especially Japanese people) tend not to correct you, so you then think its correct. You mind then begins to apply this "rule" your brain formed to similar situations, which may or not be correct (I started adding だ in to a lot of places where it shouldn't have gone, for example, after hearing it in conversation). Once you've formed this rule though, its really hard to correct - even after you realise its wrong (In conversation I still accidentally add だ in out of habit, then have to correct myself). You don't have to be a grammar nerd, and you don't have to be the guy who can write 2000 kanji but have trouble in day to day conversation, but if you can just look over the grammar patterns and understand them (it doesn't take long) you will have a much easier time further down the track. I know the aim right now is easy communication, but you will get to a point where if you can speak fairly well, Japanese people might get annoyed at you making basic grammar mistakes.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Shanshan, I looked around for some Japanese dict apps for android for ya. I keep reading good things about JED, might want to check it out.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Well, I've been studying for a little over 4 years, so think of it as me trying to improve the weakest part of my game. Basically, I want to try to sound less like a foreigner. lol
I've been thinking about applying to positions in Japan as an adult English teacher as a backup to my job search in the USA. I often said that I never wanted to live there again as just an English teacher, but if in 2 months I can't find good career-building work, I'm going for it. You gotta do something positive with your life, even if it's just a small step in a direction you never thought you'd step. I can't help it, I keep thinking about how much I liked living in Tokyo (Nippori).
Etrian Oddity
Member
Question: What program do you use to display kanji? MSOffice with the Japanese pack???
Yeah, I might do OoT after I finish SS (in English).
I've had the original kicking around for a very long time but I've never played it. Perhaps I will do that. I think I have one on SF too...
If I can find it, I'll try it. Text-heavy is exactly what I'm after.
Any answers?
Anki for android has revolutionised my review process because now I do it whenever I get bored
vas_a_morir
Banned
The absolute best game to play for non-native Japanese learnings with a few years under their belt is Chrono Trigger. It uses all kanji, but it's at a low enough level that you should understand 100% of what is written. Furthermore, it's not as such a low level (meant for kids) that it is too esoteric to understand, as well.
I've played a lot of games in Japanese, and that one was the smoothest experience. FF6 through FF9 are also great choices for intermediate learners. Basically, it's good if you are like "Well, I want to play a game, but I want to get something useful out of it."
I've played a lot of games in Japanese, and that one was the smoothest experience. FF6 through FF9 are also great choices for intermediate learners. Basically, it's good if you are like "Well, I want to play a game, but I want to get something useful out of it."
Angelus Errare
Banned
Ni no kuni is honestly the best game for a beginner. It's like broken down excellently as if made for learning the language in mind. The kid protagnists in the game use simple sentences to get their points across and the various adults the come across use more complex sentences. And all the kanji has furigana in it
Any answers?
Anki for android has revolutionised my review process because now I do it whenever I get bored
I answered it above when I addressed Shanshan, I've been hearing good things about JED. I sold my Xoom so unfortunately I can't give any hands on impressions but many people say it's pretty good.
Bomber Bob
Banned
Ni no Kuni (at least the ps3 version dunno about the ds one) have a lot of dialogs in osaka dialect, not particularly good for a beginner.
shanshan310
Member
HEY I MADE THE KAIWA THREAD!
*drum roll*
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=33510602#post33510602
Aaah, I getcha. Sorry if I ripped into you >.< That seems pretty good actually.
*drum roll*
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=33510602#post33510602
Aaah, I getcha. Sorry if I ripped into you >.< That seems pretty good actually.
Zoe
Member
It's not just the comedians?
Thank you. DLing. ありがとう。早速DL中。
Thommunist
Member
Yes, the DS version has Osaka-ben as well, from the main's partner, it does have furigana for every kanji though and the dialogue is not too difficult, so I guess I would recommend it to intermediate level speakers.
For those who like a challenging textheavy game, the Gyakuten Saiban (Phoenix Wright) games are amazing in Japanese. I'm playing through the latest one, Gyakuten Kenji 2 and I'm picking up some great idioms and vocab. It's definitely a very interesting tale as well.
bigmit3737
Member
"あかいみがついている、　ヒイラギを,　みつけるんだよ
I need help with this sentence. It's part of a children's short story, christmas story.
One of the character's had forgotten ヒイラギ　and the other character replied with the above statement.
Does it mean, "The red Holy Olive is lucky so find it"?
I need help with this sentence. It's part of a children's short story, christmas story.
One of the character's had forgotten ヒイラギ　and the other character replied with the above statement.
Does it mean, "The red Holy Olive is lucky so find it"?
Something like "(the one) with red berries, that you find is holly".
Sorry, I'm terrible at translation, but the idea is that the character is describing that out of all the things that the person who forgot ヒイラギ will see that holly is the one with the red berries. Or at least that is what I get from the context given.
チビねずみくんのクリスマス？
Find ひいらぎ with red berries
Bring ひいらぎ with red berries
You have to find ひいらぎ with red berries
I think something like these
Find ひいらぎ with red berries
Bring ひいらぎ with red berries
You have to find ひいらぎ with red berries
I think something like these
Hello there! I came back to Spain for Christmas and just now got all my visa stuff ready so I can start working in about two weeks from now!
Going back to Japan in a week (came back to Spain last week), two days in Osaka and then to Fukuoka. I got my room ready, but I believe it's pretty much empty, so I need to buy a small fridge, the futon (it's a 1K so if I put a bed I won't have much space for eating and also working with my computer), a table and chair, etc.. Gonna be a few busy days, yuck!
Going back to Japan in a week (came back to Spain last week), two days in Osaka and then to Fukuoka. I got my room ready, but I believe it's pretty much empty, so I need to buy a small fridge, the futon (it's a 1K so if I put a bed I won't have much space for eating and also working with my computer), a table and chair, etc.. Gonna be a few busy days, yuck!
louis89
Member
I think writing it with kanji makes it easier to read:
赤い実が付いているヒイラギを見つけるんだよ
Gacha-pin is correct (not that you need further confirmation after a native has given you the answer :3)
In other news, Christmas in Japan sucks. I had McDonalds and then went to a club on Christmas day, ugh.
Disaster. I moved to Seville last week, and my Anki reviews simply stopped due to the lots of things I had to do. I had literally no time at all to do the reviews. I tried to do a few, and I managed to do 10-20 a day (I slept between 4-6 hours a day, so I didn't want to screw up more). Now I'm back home for holidays, and I had to review 2XX kanjis. It's a nightmare, my failure percentage is about 40%-50%, and I will have to review a lot in the following weeks to cover up.
Conclusion: Never, ever, stop reviewing with anki if you can. I had forgotten most of the kanji that I had to review early last week, because instead of remembering them 5 days (or whatever) after the last review, I'm trying to remember them after 12 days. And of course, I don't remember most of them, so I have to start again (somewhat). I don't have this problem with some easy kanjis, or kanjis that I had already failed and I'm re-remembering now, or very old kanjis that are due in 2-4 months, but still, it's very discouraging.
But well, at least the reasons are good: I have a job, it's a very good one, I moved to another city with my girlfriend and we already found a house to live in (and in a very good place), so I'm not complaining!
Conclusion: Never, ever, stop reviewing with anki if you can. I had forgotten most of the kanji that I had to review early last week, because instead of remembering them 5 days (or whatever) after the last review, I'm trying to remember them after 12 days. And of course, I don't remember most of them, so I have to start again (somewhat). I don't have this problem with some easy kanjis, or kanjis that I had already failed and I'm re-remembering now, or very old kanjis that are due in 2-4 months, but still, it's very discouraging.
But well, at least the reasons are good: I have a job, it's a very good one, I moved to another city with my girlfriend and we already found a house to live in (and in a very good place), so I'm not complaining!
Pureauthor
Member
I'd just like to come in and say thank you to the guy who pointed me to Midori in the last page or so. It's a really good resource for me.
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