Zoe
Member
Yookoso will quit showing romanji pretty quickly.
For particles, "wa", "o", and "e" are really written as "ha", "wo", and "he".
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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese
- Thread starter RevenantKioku
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Yookoso will quit showing romanji pretty quickly.
For particles, "wa", "o", and "e" are really written as "ha", "wo", and "he".
の is about the second most 'stacked' particle aside from に. の usually substitutes for が when using a predicate to modify a noun.
ie: 彼がゲームを先週買った ＋ 私はゲームを借りた = 私は彼の先週買ったゲムを借りた.
kunonabi
Member
Neat, a fellow Jordanese speaker. It's been a few years since I completed the program, and I no longer have part 3 in my possession, however to the best of my knowledge its grammar by the end is mostly complete, aside from a number of vocabulary that has grammatical function (すなわち, and a couple of conjugation/suffixes (-まい
My go to book on looking up grammar is Yoko McClain's 口語日本文法便覧. It doesn't go into too much depth on 'why', but it is exhaustive when it comes to grammar, and includes examples for everything (using Japanese characters too!).
Congrats on getting this far in this program, it's not a very congenial textbook, and few make it to the end.
Thanks. Sounds like I'm heading down the same path then. I've been making quizlet flashcards, picked up a grammar handbook, and started on visual novels. JSL makes things so much more complicated than they need to be. I will pick up McClain's book for sure since my grammar handbook is pretty small and I'm almost done with it.
Lord Ghirahim
Member
Rōmaji. No n.
So written form is　 は　を　へ
Thanks for that. I kept looking at Ghirahim's post and wondering why he had は　in there. I still have so much to go
Not 「は」.
「を」
あさごはんをたべます。
Unless you're referring to the 「わたしは」 part I guess.
Alright thanks. I'll see if I can get a tutor or see who I can get to help me this weekend since I have so much stuff to catch up with.
Apologies if this isn't the right place to ask but I'm struggling with a couple of lines I've transcribed from a film trailer and I have no idea how to translate it - or even if I've transcribed it properly. I've only done a year of proper classes but there's nothing like overreaching your abilities to stimulate the brain, but because lines of dialogue are quoted out of context in trailers I haven't got anything to compare the lines to to make sense of them.
Apologies if these are really simple/irritating questions but I am trying!
First up:
What I've written down is バレバレ罰はも元気がしないよ but I'm not even convinced it's grammatical, let alone the right actual vocab. Does that actually mean anything? I know what each individual part of the sentence means in isolation but I have no idea if you can string it together. Does it make more sense if も is actually もう? Any way I can make sense of it doesn't seem to work with a ない verb ending, and I'm really not convinced I've got it right because a barebare batsu doesn't seem to make any sense anyway.
Second one:
The sentence is あなたは（？？？？？？）の集積停止になります　the missing noun sounds like　とうがか but that doesn't even seem to be a word. I get that the meaning of the sentence is something like "You will be expelled from ???????" but I have no idea what the missing bit could be.
Apologies if these are really simple/irritating questions but I am trying!
First up:
What I've written down is バレバレ罰はも元気がしないよ but I'm not even convinced it's grammatical, let alone the right actual vocab. Does that actually mean anything? I know what each individual part of the sentence means in isolation but I have no idea if you can string it together. Does it make more sense if も is actually もう? Any way I can make sense of it doesn't seem to work with a ない verb ending, and I'm really not convinced I've got it right because a barebare batsu doesn't seem to make any sense anyway.
Second one:
The sentence is あなたは（？？？？？？）の集積停止になります　the missing noun sounds like　とうがか but that doesn't even seem to be a word. I get that the meaning of the sentence is something like "You will be expelled from ???????" but I have no idea what the missing bit could be.
Lord Ghirahim
Member
「バレバレだっつの！元気出しなよ。」
「バレバレだっつの！げんきだしなよ。」
It's so obvious!/It's written all over your face! (context needed) Cheer up.
「あなたは10日間の出席停止になります。」
「あなたはとおかかんのしゅっせきていしになります。」
You are suspended for 10 days.
Thank you SO much. Can't believe I didn't recognise 10日間 -_- three months of no classes over the summer will do that to you.
My listening comprehension is poor generally, particularly when it comes to plain form. I really should have got most of that myself
Thank you again!
shanshan310
Member
Live action? I guess it depends what kind of movies you like. Beat Takeshi's films are pretty iconic, especially Zatoichi. I also liked the film Always (sunset on third street).
aaah. That's one of the textbooks for Japanese at my uni >< I thought it was kinda crappy, but what can you do when its the set text I guess. Focuses way too much on reading set conversations imo. I'd recommend buying a basic Japanese grammar book as a supplement, if you can afford it. I've heard many good things about this one. Otherwise, ask away in here ^^
aaah. That's one of the textbooks for Japanese at my uni >< I thought it was kinda crappy, but what can you do when its the set text I guess. Focuses way too much on reading set conversations imo. I'd recommend buying a basic Japanese grammar book as a supplement, if you can afford it. I've heard many good things about this one. Otherwise, ask away in here ^^
A little expensive, but education isn't cheap, so I can't complain too much. Any other recommended grammar books?
shanshan310
Member
I own this one, and it seems like a lot of it is available on google books! Its pretty good. There's explanations and examples of grammar and patterns, and then at the back its got lists of handy words, counters, etc.
FWIW, I've also heard nothing but praise for A Dictionary of Basic Japanese grammar. I picked it up recently, and although I haven't had the chance to sit down with it yet it seems pretty thorough. 600 pages too.
I'll have to pick this one up myself when I get a better grasp of the language.
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
Hey all. Please do not be offended, as I do not wish to use you as my personal army, but I figured this would be the best place to ask... (maybe you can learn from it!)
I wonder if any of you could possibly tell me what this MIGHT say?
Some fellow I co-op'd with in Dark Souls sent it to me after I thanked him for his help.
And I apologize for the poor picture. An iPad is all I have available at the moment.
Thanks.
I wonder if any of you could possibly tell me what this MIGHT say?
Some fellow I co-op'd with in Dark Souls sent it to me after I thanked him for his help.
And I apologize for the poor picture. An iPad is all I have available at the moment.
Thanks.
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
bigmit3737
Member
どうなるかわからない
【形】
touch-and-go
I was trying to find the meaning of どうなってるかわからない。
And I looked it up, but I'm confused by the meaning, which is "touch-and-go".
What is "touch-and-go"?
Also, is there another meaning to どうなっているかわからない
【形】
touch-and-go
I was trying to find the meaning of どうなってるかわからない。
And I looked it up, but I'm confused by the meaning, which is "touch-and-go".
What is "touch-and-go"?
Also, is there another meaning to どうなっているかわからない
Lord Ghirahim
Member
どうなるかわからない
(I) don't know what will happen.
どうなっているかわからない
(I) don't know what is happening/what has happened.
(I) don't know what will happen.
どうなっているかわからない
(I) don't know what is happening/what has happened.
Others already translated it, but I will toss in my 2¢. I feel that the closest analog we have in English is "don't know how it will turn out" - hence, touch and go.
Touch and go refers to a stage-coach's ability to pass by without getting the wheels caught up in others on narrow streets, which was probably 50-50.
shanshan310
Member
;.; aaah All the channels in keyhole tv are disappearing! Is the analogue signal going off? Might be finally time to invest in cable, though I think I can only get the international channels.
A pretty good weekend in regards to learning Japanese. I studied around 30 different katakana characters. I'm still trying to retain some of them, but for the most part, I can usually recognize one of these 30 characters. I'm sure that my class will have us translate some katakana in the very near future, so I'm not too worried about retaining them.
I studied a little vocabulary too; I know about 15-to-20 new words.
I studied a little vocabulary too; I know about 15-to-20 new words.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
After a few weeks of using them, you'll never forget them.
Although 1 or 2 of the katakana are so rarely used that you may occasionally forget how to write them long after you should know better. How often do you get to use katakana "wo" ヲ for example
metalslimer
Member
Man that initial hurdle of learning hiragana and katakana was so annoying. I felt like I was back in kindergarden pronouncing each word syllable by syllable very slowly. It's amazing how your brain adjusts only after a month.
To paraphrase my communication teacher the other day: learning languages like Japanese (as opposed to a European language for instance) teaches you humility. You gotta learn back from scratch and you feel like a toddler in the process, but it's a good thing in the end.
I learned hiragana in a few days and katakana in a few hours (although katakana not very effectively, 1 or 2 consistently mess me up). I've been practicing writing for a while too. I went through writing all of hiragana first and it was really bad so I did it again with some practice sheets. It's way better now. My English handwriting is pretty poor so it feels rewarding to have good Japanese handwriting. I'm working on katakana now.
It's funny. My penmanship is better in hiragana than it is in English.
It's actually not that bad of a hurdle. Though, it is annoying at times, especially with Si, So, Tu, and No.
And it's great being in a Starbucks barking out the pronunciations. I am really loving it though!
bigmit3737
Member
Thanks for your help as well as the others who responded.
I'm going to start Remembering the Kanji soon but I wanted to do some vocabulary and grammar at the same time. I booted up Anki today and downloaded a core 2000 vocabulary deck and I am completely lost. A lot of the words use kanji and the example sentences don't help at all because I can't understand any of it. Should I find a different vocabulary deck to start with? Or should I just hold off on doing vocabulary until I get through Remembering the Kanji?
anki is highly customisable
you can edit the card layout
1) go to settings and click on "deck properties"
2) click on "edit"
3) click on "card layout"
Its up to you how you want to customise your cards
for example
in the question box if you replace {{TargetKanji}} with {{KanaReading}}
it'll look like
As to whether to do vocab and rtk at the same time? depends on how much kanji you are adding and how much spare time you have.
If you're going full blown OCD and adding 100 kanji a day, it'll take so much of your time that its probably better to concentrate on just that.
If you''re spreading it out over the year, its probably better to attack it in batches while improving other aspects of your japanese like vocabulary/grammar/listening etc in concordance. You don't want to spend a year just on learning characters, getting frustrated and giving up half way, wasting all that time.
BTW I like the way the fella in the Japanese level up blog sets up his cards for RTK
http://japaneselevelup.com/2011/01/29/how-to-use-anki-to-master-japanese-part-1-kanji/
He looked up common vocabulary that used the kanji from the get go and used it to make the cards more unique. (not to memorise the word btw.....keep that as a separate task. Your aim is to learn how to write, using the mnemonic in the short term).
read the page for more details.
You'll find after a month or two that similar sounding keywords and stories can start blending together in your memory. You'll have to start associating the kanji with vocabulary as soon as possible to keep the characters as separate entities in you head.
I didn't do it this way....but if I had to do it over again I probably would.
you can edit the card layout
1) go to settings and click on "deck properties"
2) click on "edit"
3) click on "card layout"
Its up to you how you want to customise your cards
for example
in the question box if you replace {{TargetKanji}} with {{KanaReading}}
it'll look like
As to whether to do vocab and rtk at the same time? depends on how much kanji you are adding and how much spare time you have.
If you're going full blown OCD and adding 100 kanji a day, it'll take so much of your time that its probably better to concentrate on just that.
If you''re spreading it out over the year, its probably better to attack it in batches while improving other aspects of your japanese like vocabulary/grammar/listening etc in concordance. You don't want to spend a year just on learning characters, getting frustrated and giving up half way, wasting all that time.
BTW I like the way the fella in the Japanese level up blog sets up his cards for RTK
http://japaneselevelup.com/2011/01/29/how-to-use-anki-to-master-japanese-part-1-kanji/
He looked up common vocabulary that used the kanji from the get go and used it to make the cards more unique. (not to memorise the word btw.....keep that as a separate task. Your aim is to learn how to write, using the mnemonic in the short term).
read the page for more details.
You'll find after a month or two that similar sounding keywords and stories can start blending together in your memory. You'll have to start associating the kanji with vocabulary as soon as possible to keep the characters as separate entities in you head.
I didn't do it this way....but if I had to do it over again I probably would.
Charoncaori
Member
I'm heading off to my first Japanese class of the semester! Haven't had one in a few years so I'm excited. I'm taking an intermediate level one, though, so I hope I remember enough about sentence construction that I don't completely embarrass myself on the first day. I have some catching up to do.
And that level-up deck is really helping me with RTK, I would have given up by now otherwise. The English trigger words are just too similar for me.
And that level-up deck is really helping me with RTK, I would have given up by now otherwise. The English trigger words are just too similar for me.
John Rabbit
Banned
question. having recently started back to school and working full-time, my japanese studies have suffered noticeably. i simply do not have the drive to work through lessons in rosetta stone, attend weekly meet-ups, or generally learn vocab.
however, i have really taken to kanji! studying it, writing it, learning it (i randomly scrawl it on notepads at work and during meetings). however, i feel like if i just study kanji (using RTK) and neglect the vocab and speaking, i'll create a very weird situation for myself. is this true? i have read that studying the kanji's (and kana) first is not the worst idea in the world, since becoming proficient at reading them is crucial in just about everything else.
so i guess my question is, can i just hit learning kanji 100% and not worry about building a lot of pronunciation and japanese vocab first?
however, i have really taken to kanji! studying it, writing it, learning it (i randomly scrawl it on notepads at work and during meetings). however, i feel like if i just study kanji (using RTK) and neglect the vocab and speaking, i'll create a very weird situation for myself. is this true? i have read that studying the kanji's (and kana) first is not the worst idea in the world, since becoming proficient at reading them is crucial in just about everything else.
so i guess my question is, can i just hit learning kanji 100% and not worry about building a lot of pronunciation and japanese vocab first?
Zoe
Member
It depends on how soon you want to be functional in the language. You're not going to be holding conversations for a while if all you can do is translate kanji character by character into English.
John Rabbit
Banned
mmm, i don't have a deadline per se to be "functional". the catalyst for me finally learning is a planned 2-week trip next summer, so at most i'd like to be able to read signs/menus/maps and communicate with basic phrases, many of which i've already learned. i suppose worst case scenario i could just write the kanji for what i needed and show it to somebody.
i'd like to be able to read mangas, game screens, and follow along with text on screen for Japanese tv shows (i.e. Gamecenter CX) before speaking i guess. i don't plan on moving to Japan and i don't have any japanese speaking friends so the need isn't as great, but i would like to eventually become conversational, even if it takes a few years. i'm looking into the possibility of enrolling in the JET program next year, so i know a great bulk of my speaking experience/learning would take place there.
plus i just really like writing kanji.
Thanks for the helpful post. I'm still getting used to Anki, I didn't realize you could customize it that much. I just discovered the tutorials on the Anki website so I think I'll look through those.
I'll try that method of learning the kanji and see how it goes. I still don't completely understand it but it seems like having a Japanese keyword can be really helpful.
Charoncaori
Member
I can't imagine studying kanji could ever be a bad thing, although what will benefit you most in that case is making sure you can write the ones you learned from memory.
Pronunciation and vocabulary will come to you slowly (depending on the person) if you just expose yourself to it every day. Watch some programs, listen to music, try to hear and understand what they are saying while following along with the translation. You might not learn much but the more listening you do,the more it will help your future studies. Although too much game center CX might make you sound like someone from Osaka.
That's all just my opinion though!
Edit: you might not learn a ton of Japanese from JET, from what I've been told. They actively discourage their teachers from learning too much Japanese, so their students can benefit from hearing more English. You certainly won't use it while teaching, at least. Make friends instead.
Pronunciation and vocabulary will come to you slowly (depending on the person) if you just expose yourself to it every day. Watch some programs, listen to music, try to hear and understand what they are saying while following along with the translation. You might not learn much but the more listening you do,the more it will help your future studies. Although too much game center CX might make you sound like someone from Osaka.
That's all just my opinion though!
Edit: you might not learn a ton of Japanese from JET, from what I've been told. They actively discourage their teachers from learning too much Japanese, so their students can benefit from hearing more English. You certainly won't use it while teaching, at least. Make friends instead.
shanshan310
Member
For this kind of thing, I think that learning vocabulary would more useful than kanji tbh.
John Rabbit
Banned
is this bad? also, i just used it as an example of a show that displays text on screen.
well, by vocab i mean knowing the words in japanese. i'm obviously studying the meaning of the kanji symbols as i learn them.
shanshan310
Member
I guess the thing with heisig is that you don't learn kanji compounds until after you finish learning all the individual kanji, and kanji compounds make up a lot of vocabulary. For example, Japan 日本 is made up of the characters for 日 day and 本 book. Until you start on kanji compounds it'll make a lot of words difficult to understand. But, if you've got the time you'll get there eventually (I hear some people have completed heisig in a matter of weeks!).
John Rabbit
Banned
is there a similar resource to RTK for kanji compounds? or are those covered in the later books?
shanshan310
Member
I'm pretty sure its covered in the second book, but I think most people use different methods of learning compounds after finishing the first book. I've only covered the basics of heisig though (had to put it aside for uni) so I can't give great advice regarding it.
Charoncaori
Member
If you somehow end up sounding like someone from Osaka, you'll get some weird looks, but I don't think that would actually happen unless you tried talking like Arino. Japanese has basic tones, like how ame can be both candy and rain depending on which syllable you emphasize, and a lot of them are reversed in Osaka. So another speaker might get confused if you use the wrong dialect's pronunciation for certain words.
The way you're learning kanji now, you aren't learning the meanings as much as ways to remember and recognize the characters. You're familiarizing yourself with them. Using the Heisig method, once you learn enough kanji and vocabulary words(from your other studies), you'll be able to memorize how to learn compounds much more easily. You could either buy some readers, use some of the JLPT anki vocab decks, or whatever.
I have an unusually large spoken vocabulary for my level, so I personally find it a lot easier to be able to memorize/read kanji compounds than memorizing how to write them Heisig-style. I can't write them all but I can read a fair amount. I still want to improve my writing, though.
The way you're learning kanji now, you aren't learning the meanings as much as ways to remember and recognize the characters. You're familiarizing yourself with them. Using the Heisig method, once you learn enough kanji and vocabulary words(from your other studies), you'll be able to memorize how to learn compounds much more easily. You could either buy some readers, use some of the JLPT anki vocab decks, or whatever.
I have an unusually large spoken vocabulary for my level, so I personally find it a lot easier to be able to memorize/read kanji compounds than memorizing how to write them Heisig-style. I can't write them all but I can read a fair amount. I still want to improve my writing, though.
fly high ~ayunite~
Member
Quick question, can "そして歩いていく" be reasonably translated using some artistic license as "And finally, I walk on.." ?
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