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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese

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思いがけないことが起こるもんだ。
でも どんなことがあっても→,
今までの自分を否定してはならない。

I need help with this sentence, especially the final part


Unexpected things happen (in this life) but no matter what happens...
 

KtSlime

Member
思いがけないことが起こるもんだ。
でも どんなことがあっても→,
今までの自分を否定してはならない。

I need help with this sentence, especially the final part


Unexpected things happen (in this life) but no matter what happens...

...I must not deny (doubt?) my present self.

What's the context? Someone doing something difficult and uncertain of their success?
 

isny

napkin dispenser
Looking for some advice. I'm finding that using flashcard to learn Hiragana doesn't help much in learning to write, only to read. Any advice on what would help with learning to write it? Or will going through the flashcards EVENTUALLY just get me to the point where I can write and not just read?
 

Necrovex

Member
Looking for some advice. I'm finding that using flashcard to learn Hiragana doesn't help much in learning to write, only to read. Any advice on what would help with learning to write it? Or will going through the flashcards EVENTUALLY just get me to the point where I can write and not just read?

For my class, I am finding that writing in my workbook for hiragana is helping a lot for me to successfully recall the writing. However, I think the best way to retain the knowledge of writing the characters is to simply write the characters over and over again until you retain that piece of knowledge.

I am in the process of writing the katakana, which is a bitch to remember. Hell, I still forget my hiragana once in a while.
 

Zoe

Member
You definitely need to practice writing it out, preferably with the aid of a workbook. If all you're doing is looking at the printed form and guessing how it should be written, you're probably going to mess up the stroke order and direction.
 

Ledsen

Member
Personally I say screw writing... Even the japanese just use their phone to write :p that said I did go to school for 6 months and practiced writing during that time, so I know proper stroke order and stuff. beyond that though I don't feel that writing should be a priority if you can't read or listen well, since those are much more important.
 
...I must not deny (doubt?) my present self.

What's the context? Someone doing something difficult and uncertain of their success?


Thanks! Yeah, some difficult things have occurred in the main character's life; some unexpected things. And the main character is being told the above statement.
 

midonnay

Member
Looking for some advice. I'm finding that using flashcard to learn Hiragana doesn't help much in learning to write, only to read. Any advice on what would help with learning to write it? Or will going through the flashcards EVENTUALLY just get me to the point where I can write and not just read?

are you only going in one direction?

ie: only kana --> romaji/english?


If so, visual recognition alone will only give you a fuzzy recall of characters and is pretty much useless for helping you to learn how to write.

Think about how you learnt how to write english. You've probably went through over a decade of schooling where you write every single day......sometimes until your hand hurts.

It doesn't matter if you don't actually handwrite anymore and literature in your life consist of lurking on Gaf swapping cat pictures. You have spent years building a multifaceted approach to encoding the characters as well as sentence structures and vocabulary in your head using visual memory and muscle memory through reading and writing.

Does that mean that you have to replicate the japanese experience and dedicate a decade of your life to writing stuff over and over again (kana isn't that complicated but kanji can be)?

Not necessarily....especially if you don't actually live there. Life is short and most people have more important things to do.

But it does mean that you have to dedicate a significant amount of time to writing if you want to gain that skill especially at the beginners level. Perhaps a combination of mneumonics + writing could be useful if you don't like writing characters out 10s of times.

Writing also helps solidify your recognition skills because of the multifacted approach to storing information.

Furthermore, learning only through visual recognition can become problematic when you see characters expressed in different forms like fonts in magazines or handwriting. (more relevant to complicated kanji than kana)


Carrying around a pen and paper is a huge pain in the arse.....but everyone nowadays has a smartphone or a tablet.

Ankidroid on Android OS has a whiteboard feature when you can use your finger or stylus to write on the screen and visually confirm whether its correct. Some samsung devices have a wacom digitiser built in which would make your writing look more legible.

Anki on IOS also has a sketchpad plugin....but I don't use it on my Ipad so I'm not sure how useful it is.
 

Boogiepop

Member
Okay, I'm getting really, really annoyed trying to look this up, so I'll ask here. My teacher put a kanji in our homework that isn't in any of our books and I am having NO luck looking it up. It looks like kariru, but it lacks the radical on the lefthand side. If anyone could help me out it would be really, really appreciated.
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
I just starting Remembering the Kanji today and I have a question. Is handwriting something I should be concerned about? When I say handwriting, I mean the aesthetic appearance of the kanji. I am just looking at the kanji in the book and trying to copy them and as a result they don't look very good. The stroke order is fine, I am just not writing them well for some reason. Should I just work on writing the individual kanji more or not be very concerned about it?
 

KtSlime

Member
I just starting Remembering the Kanji today and I have a question. Is handwriting something I should be concerned about? When I say handwriting, I mean the aesthetic appearance of the kanji. I am just looking at the kanji in the book and trying to copy them and as a result they don't look very good. The stroke order is fine, I am just not writing them well for some reason. Should I just work on writing the individual kanji more or not be very concerned about it?

It depends on your goal of handwriting. If you are simply doing it to better reinforce your ability to read, then I wouldn't be concerned about it. However, since you are just starting out, even if you do intend to have nice handwriting in the future, I wouldn't worry about it too much right now, as long as you get the strokes right, pay attention to the はね (the hook at the end of a stroke) and the とめ (a stop), and when practicing keep an eye on your proportions, it should all turn out OK in the end.

And the reason you aren't writing them well likely is simply because of lack of experience, people who write characters more are better at it - this is true of all written languages.
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
It depends on your goal of handwriting. If you are simply doing it to better reinforce your ability to read, then I wouldn't be concerned about it. However, since you are just starting out, even if you do intend to have nice handwriting in the future, I wouldn't worry about it too much right now, as long as you get the strokes right, pay attention to the はね (the hook at the end of a stroke) and the とめ (a stop), and when practicing keep an eye on your proportions, it should all turn out OK in the end.

And the reason you aren't writing them well likely is simply because of lack of experience, people who write characters more are better at it - this is true of all written languages.

Okay, thanks. I'll just try my best and hope it gets better with practice.
 
すねこすり

What exactly is this? It seems to be some kind of dog in my game; I'm guessing it's some kind of legend or story.
 

louis89

Member
I guess the thing with heisig is that you don't learn kanji compounds until after you finish learning all the individual kanji, and kanji compounds make up a lot of vocabulary. For example, Japan 日本 is made up of the characters for 日 day and 本 book. Until you start on kanji compounds it'll make a lot of words difficult to understand. But, if you've got the time you'll get there eventually (I hear some people have completed heisig in a matter of weeks!).
日 and 本 here are actually 'sun' and 'origin', because Japan is to the east of China, and the sun rises in the east, thus to them Japan was the 'origin of the sun', or the 'land of the rising sun'.
 

KtSlime

Member
すねこすり

What exactly is this? It seems to be some kind of dog in my game; I'm guessing it's some kind of legend or story.

It is a 妖怪 (Youkai) resembling a dog that appears to people walking on rainy evenings. It rubs (こする) against the walkers legs (すね, shin/leg), making it painful to continue traveling.

From Wikipedia
 
I find it difficult to remember any Japanese when I am drunk. The problem is that whenever I am around a bunch of Japanese people, there is usually a lot of drinking involved.
 
日 and 本 here are actually 'sun' and 'origin', because Japan is to the east of China, and the sun rises in the east, thus to them Japan was the 'origin of the sun', or the 'land of the rising sun'.
Oh thanks, my bad >< I probably should have picked a better example. It still makes it near impossible to understand if you try and read a sentence using the heisig meanings of individual characters.

I find it difficult to remember any Japanese when I am drunk. The problem is that whenever I am around a bunch of Japanese people, there is usually a lot of drinking involved.

haha. My Japanese appears to get a lot better! It probably doesn't really but when I'm sober I worry too much about mistakes and stumble. Being drunk probably doesn't make me very grammatically correct but I can speak a lot more fluidly.
 
Hey guys, I just got my first Iphone (Iphone 4) and wanted to get a dictionary app. for it.

Can I get some recommendations please?

Is there an app. that allows you make vocabulary lists?
If I'm browsing the web or run into a word I don't know, I would like to be able to look up that word, and then add it to some sort of list fairly easily.



Secondly, how do I set up the Japanese input system?
I plan to google it when I get a chance, unless it's fairly easily and can be explained here.

Thank you so much.
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
Hey guys, I just got my first Iphone (Iphone 4) and wanted to get a dictionary app. for it.

Can I get some recommendations please?

Imiwa? is pretty good. It has example sentences and you can search kanji by radicals. You can also make lists in it to add vocabulary to. Oh yeah, it's free too.

I'm not sure I can help with the Japanese input part. Maybe someone else can help.
 

gillty

Banned
Hey guys, I just got my first Iphone (Iphone 4) and wanted to get a dictionary app. for it.

Can I get some recommendations please?

Is there an app. that allows you make vocabulary lists?
If I'm browsing the web or run into a word I don't know, I would like to be able to look up that word, and then add it to some sort of list fairly easily.



Secondly, how do I set up the Japanese input system?
I plan to google it when I get a chance, unless it's fairly easily and can be explained here.

Thank you so much.
I like Midori for dictionaries.

For JP imput you have the option between IME Romaji or the cellphone T9-like kana input. Both can be installed trhough Settings > General > Keyboard > International Keyboards.
 

KtSlime

Member
Hey guys, I just got my first Iphone (Iphone 4) and wanted to get a dictionary app. for it.

Can I get some recommendations please?

Is there an app. that allows you make vocabulary lists?
If I'm browsing the web or run into a word I don't know, I would like to be able to look up that word, and then add it to some sort of list fairly easily.



Secondly, how do I set up the Japanese input system?
I plan to google it when I get a chance, unless it's fairly easily and can be explained here.

Thank you so much.

I use the &#22823;&#36766;&#27849; by &#23567;&#23398;&#39208;, and I use "Japanese" as my &#33521;&#21644;. The iPhone also has a built in copies of I believe the &#22823;&#36766;&#26519;, and Wisdom &#33521;&#21644;, however as of iOS 6 I haven't seen it doing Japanese to English translations, hopefully this is just the bug. You can bring up this dictionary by selecting text and pressing "define" in the menu.
 
I like Midori for dictionaries.

For JP imput you have the option between IME Romaji or the cellphone T9-like kana input. Both can be installed trhough Settings > General > Keyboard > International Keyboards.

Thanks. It's a little strange though, that the table only shows limited kana, and you have to flick-touch from a certain direction to input a kana not shown (I'm referring to the kana input).


Thanks for the dictionary recommendations everyone.
I will try out the free ones first and go from there.
 
haha. My Japanese appears to get a lot better! It probably doesn't really but when I'm sober I worry too much about mistakes and stumble. Being drunk probably doesn't make me very grammatically correct but I can speak a lot more fluidly.

I've heard similar from other non-native speakers. Perhaps I have to learn just a bit more or get just a bit drunker.
 

Necrovex

Member
I had my mid-term yesterday, I thought I did pretty badly on it. I got my score back and acquired an 87. It feels good. I must have only lost points on the listening portion (I thought I was listening to two Japanese person who were on speed).

Seems like I am really learning the language.
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
Anybody know what's going on with Anki? This is only my third day using it for Remembering the Kanji but it's starting to mess up. I have the popular preset one downloaded. Yesterday, I learned 11 kanji so when I started it I put in that I wanted to do 11 new kanji and I got to review all of the new ones. It worked fine. Today I learned 15. So I put in that I wanted to do 15 new kanji and it ended up giving me ones I hadn't even done yet. They were maybe a few past the one that I actually left off on. It also skipped ones that I did learn today.

Hopefully someone knows what's going on because I have no idea what could be causing it. I'm still pretty new to Anki so it's all a bit confusing.
 

midonnay

Member
most likely you have a setting wrong somewhere but its hard to tell without being behind the computer.... (perhaps random selection rather than picking new cards as they were added)

the easiest thing to do is to go to the card browser (ctrl + f), "select all" and "toggle suspend" (in the actions menu)

then unsuspend only the cards you want/have done. (highlight card(s) and toggle suspend)

then every day as you learn new ones, just keep unsuspending
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
most likely you have a setting wrong somewhere but its hard to tell without being behind the computer.... (perhaps random selection rather than picking new cards as they were added)

the easiest thing to do is to go to the card browser (ctrl + f), "select all" and "toggle suspend" (in the actions menu)

then unsuspend only the cards you want/have done. (highlight card(s) and toggle suspend)

then every day as you learn new ones, just keep unsuspending

That seems to be the easiest solution. I didn't even know you could do that. Thanks!
 
haha. My Japanese appears to get a lot better! It probably doesn't really but when I'm sober I worry too much about mistakes and stumble. Being drunk probably doesn't make me very grammatically correct but I can speak a lot more fluidly.

I am very familiar with this phenomenon. It is similar to beatboxing. Being drunk has not MADE you better, it has just made it very easy for your brain to CONVINCE itself it knows what the hell it is doing and to not run things through those few extra filters. The result tends to me much more fun for you and everyone involved.

Although I can't discount the possibility that the removal of filters also lends your brain easier access to deeper levels of your knowledge so that you're using words you do actually know but have trouble trying to recall in a vacuum.
 

Ledsen

Member
Not knowing a language makes you insecure and reluctant to speak for fear of making mistakes. Obviously drinking will remove that inhibition and while you'll surely make more mistakes, you'll also speak a lot more thus using the language more effectively.
 
Speaking of speaking: benefit #512 of being able to speak Japanese: strike up a conversation with the japanese stewardesses on your flights to & from Tokyo, make friends, and get treated to a delicious cheese plate from first class.

&#12381;&#12398;&#12481;&#12540;&#12474;&#12399;&#36101;&#27810;&#12394;&#37329;&#25345;&#12385;&#12398;&#21619;&#12434;&#12375;&#12390;&#12383;&#12290;
 

Tenck

Member
So we finally bumped up to Kanji in my class.

Tell me it gets easier ;_;

Though to be honest, just the difficulty of it right now is lighting this passion to learn it even more. Probably the first time I've felt this.
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
Well it turns out the RTK deck I downloaded is missing some kanji which is pretty annoying. I'm going to have to search through and figure out which ones aren't there.

Overall, I'm enjoying learning the kanji. I'm doing 10 a day right now, sometimes more. I have more time on weekends so I'll do more then. I feel mentally exhausted even after doing about 10. It can be frustrating to forget one when reviewing but the process overall is pretty fun.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Speaking of speaking: benefit #512 of being able to speak Japanese: strike up a conversation with the japanese stewardesses on your flights to & from Tokyo, make friends, and get treated to a delicious cheese plate from first class.

&#12381;&#12398;&#12481;&#12540;&#12474;&#12399;&#36101;&#27810;&#12394;&#37329;&#25345;&#12385;&#12398;&#21619;&#12434;&#12375;&#12390;&#12383;&#12290;


Nice! I should try that some time. Was she cute? :p
 
Speaking of speaking: benefit #512 of being able to speak Japanese: strike up a conversation with the japanese stewardesses on your flights to & from Tokyo, make friends, and get treated to a delicious cheese plate from first class.

&#12381;&#12398;&#12481;&#12540;&#12474;&#12399;&#36101;&#27810;&#12394;&#37329;&#25345;&#12385;&#12398;&#21619;&#12434;&#12375;&#12390;&#12383;&#12290;

HAHA. I'm curious about this cheese plate.
 

Cranzor

Junior Member
I've been posting in here a lot, I'm beginning to feel like I'm spamming the thread! Japanese has just been on my mind a lot since I've been studying everyday.

Can someone explain the method of studying sentences to me? I've been using an Anki deck just for singular vocabulary words and it doesn't seem to be very effective. I'm forgetting words way too often. I've read up a little bit on studying sentences and it makes sense to me. There are just a few things I don't get though.

First, I've seen people saying that you should put kanji in the sentences without including a kana reading. I am going through the first Remembering the Kanji book so I am completely clueless on readings. Why should I be learning the readings of kanji that I haven't even come across yet? I just don't really understand it.

Second, any idea on how to start out reviewing sentences? I have a very limited vocabulary so it would be hard to find anything that would be basic enough for me to read. Should I keep reviewing singular vocabulary words until I have a good amount of words to work with?

Thanks in advance.
 
Is there a slang meaning to the word &#12481;&#12531;&#12509;&#12539;&#12481;&#12531;&#12509;&#12454;&#65311;
I see &#12385;&#12435;&#12413;&#12288;means penis, but I've heard it used a few times when watching video game streams on Justin.tv. It was used in a different context, but I couldn't pick up the meaning.
 

scottnak

Member
Thank you so much.

And thanks to you I also found this word:

&#37676;&#37329;&#34899;

Which I heard used so often in Fullmetal Alchemist.

=)

&#37676;&#37329;&#34899; = &#12428;&#12435;&#12365;&#12435;&#12376;&#12421;&#12388;&#12288;= alchemy or making money via shady ways

Is there a slang meaning to the word &#12481;&#12531;&#12509;&#12539;&#12481;&#12531;&#12509;&#12454;&#65311;
I see &#12385;&#12435;&#12413;&#12288;means penis, but I've heard it used a few times when watching video game streams on Justin.tv. It was used in a different context, but I couldn't pick up the meaning.

Well... just looking up what else &#12385;&#12435;&#12413;&#12358; could turn into... I suppose it's possible it could be referring to &#29645;&#23453; (rare treasure)?
 
Can anyone recommend some good JLPT books? I've been looking around at N2 and N1 books, but most of them seem like drills without explanations about grammar etc. Are drills a good way to study? I've never actually studied for JLPT before, but I think I'll need to for the higher levels...
 

Mik2121

Member
I always love coming to this thread after a while without checking it, and seeing people talking about stuff like penis, lol. Oh guys....

Anyway, it seems the JLPT entries are starting already and the test is on December right? The last one I took (and passed, thankfully!) was JLPT2 back some 4 years ago, and don't feel like taking JLPT1 (already have a work here so whatever, don't need it), but good luck to everyone taking the test! &#38929;&#24373;&#12387;&#12390;&#12368;&#12384;&#12373;&#12356;&#65281;


&#12385;&#12394;&#12415;&#12395;&#12289;&#12300;&#26085;&#26412;&#35486;&#12391;&#35441;&#12381;&#12358;&#12301;&#12387;&#12390;&#12473;&#12524;&#12483;&#12489;&#21069;&#35504;&#12363;&#12364;&#12383;&#12390;&#12383;&#12435;&#12384;&#12369;&#12393;&#12289;&#12354;&#12428;&#32080;&#23616;&#12393;&#12358;&#12394;&#12387;&#12383;&#12435;&#12391;&#12377;&#12363;&#65311;&#20693;&#12418;&#20309;&#22238;&#12363;&#12467;&#12513;&#12531;&#12488;&#26360;&#12356;&#12383;&#12435;&#12384;&#12369;&#12393;&#12289;&#12418;&#12358;&#12354;&#12398;&#12473;&#12524;&#12483;&#12489;&#12415;&#12388;&#12363;&#12425;&#12435;&#12539;&#12539;&#12539;
 
&#37676;&#37329;&#34899; = &#12428;&#12435;&#12365;&#12435;&#12376;&#12421;&#12388;&#12288;= alchemy or making money via shady ways



Well... just looking up what else &#12385;&#12435;&#12413;&#12358; could turn into... I suppose it's possible it could be referring to &#29645;&#23453; (rare treasure)?

Thanks, this makes a lot of sense. =)
 
Nice! I should try that some time. Was she cute? :p
Pretty cute, yeah. She did enjoy getting to vent some &#24746;&#21475; with a passenger (relaying some horror stories about real assholes she's had to deal with) which she wouldn't usually get to do.
HAHA. I'm curious about this cheese plate.
Cheddar, swiss...but the blue cheese wedge was the most delicious piece. Couple of big buiscuit-like crackers on there too.
Can anyone recommend some good JLPT books? I've been looking around at N2 and N1 books, but most of them seem like drills without explanations about grammar etc. Are drills a good way to study? I've never actually studied for JLPT before, but I think I'll need to for the higher levels...

I think that boosting your reading comprehension skills will be your best bet for passing, judging from previous tests and from peoples' reactions to the new format. So probably focusing on reading news articles, essays, novels, blogs, etc. I think having a big vocabulary and being a quick reader are the keys to passing. But if you're really wanting a book geared specifically for the JLPT I keep seeing &#26085;&#26412;&#35486;&#32207;&#12414;&#12392;&#12417; mentioned on blogs and forums.

This leads me to my next question which I've asked before: Who else is taking JLPT this year? I'm going for N1 in Atlanta. If anyone else is going there we should do a GAF-meetup!

EDIT: Actually, I've got copies of the previous tests (for all levels, 1-4) including the listening audio from like 1997-2009, before they switched to the new format. It won't necessarily help you study for the TEST directly but it will at least give you a good indicator of the level of reading and listening you'll face. PM me and I'll upload and send a link.
 
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