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[injurai]

I'm just starting out. Anybody have experience with TextFugu? The way the lessons are presented it looks pretty solid.

I'm still just learning the basics of Japanese (and have taken a hiatus for my other studies) but It's the most solid thing I have seen for learning. It's more of a backbone to your learning. Use it as your primary path through the language, it acts as a friend and guide for both knowledge and learning technique.

The program has wonderful pacing, and has you learn certain things (like hiragana) before moving on to other things. It doesn't let you get ahead of yourself, and forces you to learn the hard way.

That being said, you eventually should augment with other sources as your hunger for learning grows. But use it as your main companion, it really offers the best approach for independent study that I have seen.

 

[gaki]

I'm still just learning the basics of Japanese (and have taken a hiatus for my other studies) but It's the most solid thing I have seen for learning. It's more of a backbone to your learning. Use it as your primary path through the language, it acts as a friend and guide for both knowledge and learning technique.

The program has wonderful pacing, and has you learn certain things (like hiragana) before moving on to other things. It doesn't let you get ahead of yourself, and forces you to learn the hard way.

That being said, you eventually should augment with other sources as your hunger for learning grows. But use it as your main companion, it really offers the best approach for independent study that I have seen.

Thanks a lot! TextFugu it is then

 

[Midou]

I feel I have all the Katakana down, next would be Hiragana. My only question in this regard, if anyone knows a 'best practices' answer, is it better to practice them until you can read them all instantly like english, or it is better to know the alphabets for now and then gain speed through actual reading? The majority I do recognize instantly though.

Thanks.

 

[injurai]

I feel I have all the Katakana down, next would be Hiragana. My only question in this regard, if anyone knows a 'best practices' answer, is it better to practice them until you can read them all instantly like english, or it is better to know the alphabets for now and then gain speed through actual reading? The majority I do recognize instantly though.

Thanks.

flash cards to learn them, but once you feel that you are just becoming familiar with reading them in patters and such move onto identifying them from hiragana/katakana text. You don't have to read for understanding, just for pronunciation and recognition.

Once you feel you've done enough of that, the rest is just repeated exposure as you continue studying all the various other aspects of grammar, vocab, idioms, etc.

 

[KtSlime]

I feel I have all the Katakana down, next would be Hiragana. My only question in this regard, if anyone knows a 'best practices' answer, is it better to practice them until you can read them all instantly like english, or it is better to know the alphabets for now and then gain speed through actual reading? The majority I do recognize instantly though.

Thanks.

Which way did you do it when learning English? (PS, kana are not alphabets, they are syllabary)

 

[Midou]

flash cards to learn them, but once you feel that you are just becoming familiar with reading them in patters and such move onto identifying them from hiragana/katakana text. You don't have to read for understanding, just for pronunciation and recognition.

Once you feel you've done enough of that, the rest is just repeated exposure as you continue studying all the various other aspects of grammar, vocab, idioms, etc.

Cool, yeah I thought more exposure would be the best way.

Which way did you do it when learning English? (PS, kana are not alphabets, they are syllabary)

Yeah, sorry. And I was about 5-6 when I learned English so it's hard to say.

 

[KtSlime]

Yeah, sorry. And I was about 5-6 when I learned English so it's hard to say.

No worries, it's a learning process, and learning terminology is part of that. Looking back at my old assignments from kindergarten and first grade, I'd have to say for myself I'd make mistakes and that it was the process of repeated reading and exposure to English that enabled me to gain a grasp on reading accurately. In this regard all languages are the same, obviously as Injurai says you want to get somewhat accustomed to it before reading so that you aren't struggling too much, but perfection comes with lots of practice, and reading is a great source of that. Don't spend too much time on just the kana, it will come with time. Good luck.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Okay, some of the Memrise lessons are pissing me off now. They really need to have some standardization as to the correct romanization of words. Especially when the lesson never tells you the correct romanization, and when romanizations that worked fine in previous lessons suddenly aren't acceptable anymore. For example, "oyasuminasai" was completely acceptable in a past lesson, but in the one I was just doing, it was marked as incorrect. And since this lesson never told me what the correct romanization was, I just guessed random letters on the keyboard until I got as far as "oxiu-" then just gave up. Ugh.

Sorry if none of this makes sense. Just had to vent. :lol

EDIT: And I ran into this same problem before, too. When I was learning stuff like りっぱ and きっぷ, when it had me write the romanizations for them, it never showed me the correct ones in advance, so I just got lucky and stumbled upon the fact that I was supposed to write them like "ri-p-pu" and "ki-p-pa". 　

 

[KtSlime]

If memrise is teaching you that は should be romanized has fu and ふ as ha, I'd recommend that you discontinue using it. I have no idea what you are trying to relay with おやすみなさい starting with おぃう, but that is also incorrect. I'd find a better place to get your flashcards if I were you. I like kanjibox (although it is limited to multiple-choice), or making my own.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

If memrise is teaching you that は should be romanized has fu and ふ as ha, I'd recommend to discontinue using it. I have no idea what you are trying to relay with おやすみなさい starting with おぃう, but that is also incorrect. I'd find a better place to get your flashcards if I were you. I like kanjibox (although it is limited to multiple-choice), or making my own.

Sorry, I should have been a bit more clear. When you're typing in the romanizations, the input field is green as you type in correct letters, and turns red if you type in an incorrect letter. So I tried random letters on the keyboard after "oyasumi nasai" was marked as incorrect and the input field stayed green as far as "oxiu-" before I gave up trying to figure out exactly what the hell I was supposed to type.

 

[kitsuneyo]

Hey all, this thread looks handy

I'm thinking of signing up for the JLPT N5 test in July, mainly as a way to motivate myself and have something to aim for with my study. Who's done it before? Worth the £75?

 

[Ledsen]

EDIT: And I ran into this same problem before, too. When I was learning stuff like りっぱ and きっぷ, when it had me write the romanizations for them, it never showed me the correct ones in advance, so I just got lucky and stumbled upon the fact that I was supposed to write them like "ri-p-pu" and "ki-p-pa". 　

It's "rippa" and "kippu" actually.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

It's "rippa" and "kippu" actually.

Yeah, sorry, got mixed up. :lol Hadn't been awake for terribly long when I posted that, heh.

 

[Zoe]

Sorry, I should have been a bit more clear. When you're typing in the romanizations, the input field is green as you type in correct letters, and turns red if you type in an incorrect letter. So I tried random letters on the keyboard after "oyasumi nasai" was marked as incorrect and the input field stayed green as far as "oxiu-" before I gave up trying to figure out exactly what the hell I was supposed to type.

What could it have possibly wanted? There's nothing ambiguous about おやすみなさい.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

What could it have possibly wanted? There's nothing ambiguous about おやすみなさい.

Right. This is what it says at the top of the screen:

お休(や&#12377みなさい

I did some looking around, and discovered that the reading for 休 in Mandarin is "xiu", which is why it accepts "oxiu-" as correct. I've tried every possible thing after that, though, and nothing works.

Here, you can try it yourself:

http://www.memrise.com/course/56262/60-simple-japanese-sentences/1/garden/grow/

Just get as far as where it asks you to write the romanization of おやすみなさい, and see if you can figure it out.

 

[Midou]

Is it a good idea to jump right into Kanji after the kanas? I was thinking its technically killing two birds with one stone, since you learn the translation and the kanji at the same time. Would it be better to learn some grammar and such first instead?

Kanji seems pretty scary, but after reading through the Kanji Damage history page it doesn't seem as bad, though obviously going to require a lot of dedication.

I will say my ultimate goal is to be able to able to read and understand stuff like games and manga, even if it is heavy in Kanji.

 

[kitsuneyo]

Is it a good idea to jump right into Kanji after the kanas? I was thinking its technically killing two birds with one stone, since you learn the translation and the kanji at the same time. Would it be better to learn some grammar and such first instead?

Kanji seems pretty scary, but after reading through the Kanji Damage history page it doesn't seem as bad, though obviously going to require a lot of dedication.

I will say my ultimate goal is to be able to able to read and understand stuff like games and manga, even if it is heavy in Kanji.

If I could go back to the beginning, I would start learning kanji with the Heisig book in parallel with my other studies. Do this and you'll be recognising the meaning of many kanji in real texts within a matter of weeks. You'll also know how to write those kanji.

 

[Cranzor]

If I could go back to the beginning, I would start learning kanji with the Heisig book in parallel with my other studies. Do this and you'll be recognising the meaning of many kanji in real texts within a matter of weeks. You'll also know how to write those kanji.

That's what I am doing right now and it's working great for me. I can't speak for everyone though, a lot of people seem to dislike Remembering the Kanji.

 

[kitsuneyo]

That's what I am doing right now and it's working great for me. I can't speak for everyone though, a lot of people seem to dislike Remembering the Kanji.

Some of the mnemonics are pretty lame, and other have a Christian vibe I don't like. As long as you can make up your own stories in those cases, the book is amazing. Phenomenal. Mind blowing even. I've learned over 100 kanji in just over two weeks.

Kanji Damage claims to super-simplify everything but actually it gives you a LOT of information for each kanji. Heisig is good because you can focus purely on learning one meaning and how to write & remember the character. It does what Kanji Damage claims to do, by not bombarding you with too much information.

Edit: Btw I don't mean to say Kanji Damage is no good, I started reading it the other day after I read this thread and I think I'll be using it when I come to learn the kanji readings.

 

[Cranzor]

Some of the mnemonics are pretty lame, and other have a Christian vibe I don't like. As long as you can make up your own stories in those cases, the book is amazing. Phenomenal. Mind blowing even. I've learned over 100 kanji in just over two weeks.

Have you tried this site yet? If you sign up and click the "study" tab at the top, you can search for the kanji that you're looking for and get stories made my other people. I just started using it recently and it's working way better for me than making my own stories did. Some of the stories are incredibly clever.

 

[OceanBlue]

I've restarted using Anki and KanjiDamage again after a year of not using it, but it seems I always fall off at around ~300 kanji. It just gets really exhausting to remember so many kanji without context. I'm also using a deck called 8547 Japanese Sentences from the 日本語文法辞典 and it's been pretty nice. I feel like it's more enjoyable to use because I'm picking up on grammar as well, even though I'm picking up far less kanji at a time.

Is burning out on kanji normal? Is there any advice to make it less taxing or do you just have to persevere?

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

I've restarted using Anki and KanjiDamage again after a year of not using it, but it seems I always fall off at around ~300 kanji. It just gets really exhausting to remember so many kanji without context. I'm also using a deck called 8547 Japanese Sentences from the 日本語文法辞典 and it's been pretty nice. I feel like it's more enjoyable to use because I'm picking up on grammar as well, even though I'm picking up far less kanji at a time.

Is burning out on kanji normal? Is there any advice to make it less taxing or do you just have to persevere?

Aside from typical memory devices like making up a story for what each one looks like, I found that taking the kanji that I'd learned for the day and making sentences with them helped me retain a lot better. It also helps reinforce grammar and other vocab as well, in my experience.

 

[kitsuneyo]

Have you tried this site yet? If you sign up and click the "study" tab at the top, you can search for the kanji that you're looking for and get stories made my other people. I just started using it recently and it's working way better for me than making my own stories did. Some of the stories are incredibly clever.

I think I saw it in the OP but haven't tried it yet. I'll give it a go, thanks!

 

[John Rabbit]

okay so, some of you may remember i started teaching myself japanese last summer. i had to give that up because of some classes i was taking (paired with a full time job, i just simply didn't have the time to dedicate to it).

i've since enrolled in a japanese class at the community college, and it's been great so far, if not really heavy on the homework.

i was previously using RTK to learn kanji, but it's practically impossible to meld with this class, unless i wanted to be studying for hours every night of the week (and i can't really dedicate that kind of time). i really do not like the way we're learning kanji in this class, which is just brute force memorization and certainly not in any logical manner.

my question is thus:

Is it a bad move to take off next semester and just spend the time hammering away on RTK? There's a lot of cons to doing this, but RTK proved SO effective when I was using it (I only learned about 80 kanji, stopped cold turkey for 5 months, and upon quizzing myself afterward, I accurately recalled about 90% of them). I feel like kanji is such a large obstacle that it might prove useful removing most of that obstacle while continuing my studies at school in the fall.

 

[kitsuneyo]

Is it a bad move to take off next semester and just spend the time hammering away on RTK? There's a lot of cons to doing this, but RTK proved SO effective when I was using it (I only learned about 80 kanji, stopped cold turkey for 5 months, and upon quizzing myself afterward, I accurately recalled about 90% of them). I feel like kanji is such a large obstacle that it might prove useful removing most of that obstacle while continuing my studies at school in the fall.

All I know is, taking off a semester to study alone wouldn't work for me. I wouldn't get anything done. Plus an hour of your own kanji study per day should really be enough, surely you can fit that in.

 

[Zoe]

I don't really see the point to taking off to do RTK if you plan on returning to formal classes. You could sabotage your performance in class--not just from learning things out of order, but also from just having that big break in your studies.

 

[vas_a_morir]

I've lately been doing translations for fun. They're probably awful, but you learn a ton while doing it, and that's all I'm concerned about.

I wonder if anybody has ever discussed the possibility of creating a NeoGAF translation team before? Just for educational purposes, of course. Something just to help keep those of us unfortunate enough to live in a place where we can meet no Japanese people motivated to keep learning.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I've lately been doing translations for fun. They're probably awful, but you learn a ton while doing it, and that's all I'm concerned about.

I wonder if anybody has ever discussed the possibility of creating a NeoGAF translation team before? Just for educational purposes, of course. Something just to help keep those of us unfortunate enough to live in a place where we can meet no Japanese people motivated to keep learning.

I work in localization so translation is a big part of my everyday job, but I'd be interested in participating in some form or another.

 

[vas_a_morir]

I work in localization so translation is a big part of my everyday job, but I'd be interested in participating in some form or another.

I aspire to do what you do, so I need all the practice I can get. I've only passed JLPT N2, but I think that's good enough to get by, don't you think so? I'm interested in unusual translation projects. Not just anime, but things like propaganda, speeches, magazines, newspapers, and so on.

 

[Mandoric]

I'm intrigued.

 

[Jintor]

Let me level up and I'll call back in a year or three

 

[vas_a_morir]

Well, if enough people are interested, I think we can get some sort of organization figured out.

In particular, I'd like to focus on translating things that nobody else is... but that's just a personal preference. I'm up for any challenge!

If you are interested, please share what kind of tasks (including technical skills) you would like to do, your experience, and what kind of things you would like to translate.

It could be fun, and at worst, you might still learn something.

 

[Mandoric]

I know everything, I've done everything, and at least for now I'm interested in facilitating other projects more than bringing my own in.

 

[Alchemy]

This might be an odd question, but what would be a good Japan only game to play through to practice reading/listening Japanese? The more I study the harder I find to retain information with no reinforcement.

 

[Korosenai]

Ok, so I just bought this book on Amazon (Japanese Hiragana & Katakana for Beginners: First Steps to Mastering the Japanese Writing System), and I plan on buying this one next (Remembering the Kanji: A Complete Course on How Not to Forget the Meaning and Writing of Japanese Characters).

Are these two books good for starting out? What should I buy/do next?

 

[Mandoric]

This might be an odd question, but what would be a good Japan only game to play through to practice reading/listening Japanese? The more I study the harder I find to retain information with no reinforcement.

Sakura Wars is one of the old standard recs, because it's full of parts where you have to read/listen and respond at conversational pace.

 

[Torraz]

Ok, so I just bought this book on Amazon (Japanese Hiragana & Katakana for Beginners: First Steps to Mastering the Japanese Writing System), and I plan on buying this one next (Remembering the Kanji: A Complete Course on How Not to Forget the Meaning and Writing of Japanese Characters).

Are these two books good for starting out? What should I buy/do next?

I suggest looking into Kanjidamage as opposed to the Remembering the Kanji book by Heisig.

 

[Snytbaggen]

I saw a pretty dodgy katakanization (is that even a word?) on a Swedish newspaper, and among other things they used イェ. I don't really remember all the rules for how to write katakana, but can you even write it like that? Wouldn't イエ be more correct?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I saw a pretty dodgy katakanization (is that even a word?) on a Swedish newspaper, and among other things they used イェ. I don't really remember all the rules for how to write katakana, but can you even write it like that? Wouldn't イエ be more correct?

It wouldn't necessarily be more correct, no.

イェ produces more of a "Ye" sound.

 

[Kodiak]

I suggest looking into Kanjidamage as opposed to the Remembering the Kanji book by Heisig.

Can you please elaborate on why you prefer it to Heisig? I'm fairly well in to the Heisig method but would consider switching to this tool if it's more enjoyable or useful.

 

[metalslimer]

All right well I'm pretty much nearing the end of my Intermediate Japanese 2 course and would like to learn a lot more before going to Advanced. What I'm mainly interested in is vocab because I already have kanji flashcards

 

[Snytbaggen]

It wouldn't necessarily be more correct, no.

イェ produces more of a "Ye" sound.

Oh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[DasMarcos]

Hi everyone!

I'm starting out on my journey and I wanted to see if someone on here could be of major help? I'm trying language exchanges/other websites as well but I thought maybe someone on here could provide the assistance I need.

I really want to buy a textbook and workbook but I won't unless I can have someone go over it with me every now and then or even correct scanned pages of the workbook. Obviously whoever this person is has to be proficient within the language and have some free time but I can make it worth your while with regards to gifts (probably in the form of video games).

So if anyone thinks they have the time and the good will to do something like this please just private message me.

Thanks a bunch.

 

[Torraz]

Can you please elaborate on why you prefer it to Heisig? I'm fairly well in to the Heisig method but would consider switching to this tool if it's more enjoyable or useful.

I have completed the first Heisig book and then kinda stopped learning Kanji for a while. Then i started Kanjidamage (and should finish in around a month or two or so).

Both are SRS methods, btw and Heisig and Kanjidamage are actually pretty similar.

Still, I prefer Kanjidamage for the following reasons:

1. Kanjidamage is simply way more "fun", as opposed to the vanilla Heisig method. The mnemonic stories and radicals are very funny, and way more memorable, which helps a lot with remembering everything.

2. I also prefer the ordering of the kanji in Kanjidamage, as opposed to Heisig.

3. I find that Heisig creates a lot of radicals that then, often, only seem to be used in 1-2 kanji. Kanjidamage has less of them, which makes mnemonic stories a lot easier to remember. Yes, sometimes the radical will be a tiny bit different, so one could argue that one should indeed create a new radical (as Heisig does), but after a while Kanjidamage converted me.

---

There's nothing stopping you from going with a mixed method. I am currently 90% kanjidamage 10% Heisig. I have kept some radical names/mnemonics from heisig (those that I prefer), but largely I find Kanjidamage more fun and useful.

 

[Raelson]

To me, learning kanji is like a drug.
Gotta catch em all!

 

[Kodiak]

I have completed the first Heisig book and then kinda stopped learning Kanji for a while. Then i started Kanjidamage (and should finish in around a month or two or so).

Both are SRS methods, btw and Heisig and Kanjidamage are actually pretty similar.

Still, I prefer Kanjidamage for the following reasons:

1. Kanjidamage is simply way more "fun", as opposed to the vanilla Heisig method. The mnemonic stories and radicals are very funny, and way more memorable, which helps a lot with remembering everything.

2. I also prefer the ordering of the kanji in Kanjidamage, as opposed to Heisig.

3. I find that Heisig creates a lot of radicals that then, often, only seem to be used in 1-2 kanji. Kanjidamage has less of them, which makes mnemonic stories a lot easier to remember. Yes, sometimes the radical will be a tiny bit different, so one could argue that one should indeed create a new radical (as Heisig does), but after a while Kanjidamage converted me.

---

There's nothing stopping you from going with a mixed method. I am currently 90% kanjidamage 10% Heisig. I have kept some radical names/mnemonics from heisig (those that I prefer), but largely I find Kanjidamage more fun and useful.

Thanks for the thorough response. It's good to know that the different methods can crossover a bit, for some reason I was thinking of it as an all of one and nothing of the other proposition.

I'm currently using memrise for the Heisig method and it has been working pretty well for me. Doing either 15 or 30 a day and my retention is strong.

 

[morch]

I havent tried kanji damage but RTK is really helping me with guessing new words when i see furigana even if i only have reached about 680ish so far

My pressing issue at the moment is that i can't seem to get into anime or doramas, so my listening is absolutely terrible in class or if i listen to recorded stuff of more than 5 words. Unless im in a bar talking to drunk japanese people where our slurred speaking helps the processing! (We have language meetups in London)...

is there any other good sources? I ordered a few DVDs of western films i enjoy that happen to be dubbed. I know i won't pick up any cultural stuff this way but so far it is all i can think of other than keeping up trying to do sentence practice, which im terrible at. I'm also trying to spend more time with the few japanese friends i have in London, as well as go to Japan on holiday more regulary and not use English (I pretend i'm french, noone tries to speak English with me then hehe)

sorry for wall of text :S

 

[Raelson]

I havent tried kanji damage but RTK is really helping me with guessing new words when i see furigana even if i only have reached about 680ish so far

My pressing issue at the moment is that i can't seem to get into anime or doramas, so my listening is absolutely terrible in class or if i listen to recorded stuff of more than 5 words. Unless im in a bar talking to drunk japanese people where our slurred speaking helps the processing! (We have language meetups in London)...

is there any other good sources? I ordered a few DVDs of western films i enjoy that happen to be dubbed. I know i won't pick up any cultural stuff this way but so far it is all i can think of other than keeping up trying to do sentence practice, which im terrible at. I'm also trying to spend more time with the few japanese friends i have in London, as well as go to Japan on holiday more regulary and not use English (I pretend i'm french, noone tries to speak English with me then hehe)

sorry for wall of text :S

How about audio books?

 

[Venfayth]

OK, so forgive me, I'm sure this has been asked a billion times but I scanned the first page and didn't see anything. Where am I supposed to start as a complete newcomer to japanese? I've looked at some of the hiragana and katakana before, but I don't have them memorized. Where's the best place to learn those, and where should I start after that?

 

[Sqorgar]

OK, so forgive me, I'm sure this has been asked a billion times but I scanned the first page and didn't see anything. Where am I supposed to start as a complete newcomer to japanese? I've looked at some of the hiragana and katakana before, but I don't have them memorized. Where's the best place to learn those, and where should I start after that?

The quick answer is to grab a textbook like Genki and work through it. If you want the free alternatives, Tae Kim's Guide is a decent starting point for basic grammar and sentence structure (I hear). You'll absolutely want to make learning hiragana and katakana a priority - there's so few of them that you really just need a list of them to memorize.

Though I didn't do it this way, some people recommend using Heisig's Remembering the Kanji to familiarize yourself with the 2200 most common kanji right off the bat. It is more about recognizing the kanji as it relates to an English keyword, so you literally need ZERO Japanese to be able to do it. Kanji is a real stumbling block with written Japanese, and I'm sort of the opinion that things will be easier learning the kanji as early as possible. I had years of Japanese classes in college and even lived in Japan for a while, and I couldn't read a damn thing until I discovered RtK.

Also, there's a companion website called "Remembering the Kanji" which has a forum of people who have self taught (or are in the process of self teaching) themselves Japanese. There's a lot of tips and stuff that I've found useful in the transition from structured learning to self learning. They do seem a bit obsessed with the Anki flashcard program though.