The Bitter Tears Of The American Christian Super Majority - Aljazeera Opinion Article

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Take the Catholic bishop of Peoria, Ill., Daniel R. Jenky, sermonizing in 2012 against the Affordable Care Act, blasting it as of a piece with governments that “have tried to force Christians to huddle and hide within the confines of their churches,” not skimping on comparisons to Stalinism and Nazism.
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The irony here is delicious since the Catholic Church readily sided with the regimes of Nazi Germany and the fascists of Mussolini in Italy.
 
People weren't complaining about prayer in schools and 10 Commandments in front of courthouses 100 years ago, why are they now? It must be those evil commie libruls, atheists, and Muslims.
 
Devolution said:
The pushback on women's reproductive rights since the 70s is a testament to their power and influence so I will never stop lolling at their persecution complex.
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This is really, really ignorant, but have women's reproductive rights actually eroded since the 1970s, or have they just been challenged much more often?
 
Log4Girlz said:
To me it is just so strange that people will latch on to some clearly fictitious narrative so strongly.
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You gotta get together and tell yourself stories that violate every law of the universe just to get through the goddamn day? What's that say about your reality?
 
It's unfortunate, because these idiots exaggerate their "persecution." Meanwhile, Christians are genuinely getting persecuted all throughout the world.
 
kirblar said:
The double meaning of "Christian" (when used by Evangelicals) goes under the radar for a lot of people. Most people don't consider themselves "Christians", they consider themselves Catholic/Presbyterian/etc when prompted. When the response is "Christian" it means much more than just "Oh I like Jesus."
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That's what makes me so mad as a Christian. Why on earth is team allegiance to a specific branch of Christianity so important?
 
sphagnum said:
You're told from birth that your religion is true and right and that following it carefully and loving God will grant you a spot in Heaven. You're told from the moment you enter Sunday School that the world around you is filled with heathens and evil people who hate God, and that you're "in the world but not of this word". Your holy book itself says that you are either with God or against God, and that you will be persecuted for believing the truth, and that it is a good thing to bear that burden because the more persecuted you are, the more you are following the word of God. Only Christians can truly love God and do what is right, so if what you are doing is hated by everyone else, then clearly you are doing the correct thing. You are also told that the devil is real and has a plan to corrupt you and everyone else and take you down to Hell, and that the Book of Revelation very clearly lays out how your religion will become the most persecuted in the world and if somehow you're left on earth you're going to have to fend for your life. And - most importantly - you're told that current events happening right now are all pointing to this happening, and you're given all the evidence you need from sources you trust, with any other sources being deemed ideologically invalid. And everyone in your family, and all of yours friends, and all of your peers and other people you keep in contact with, believe the same thing and form a tight knit community.

You are also told that the country you were born in was once a great society where everything was peachy keen and clean cut and everyone went to church on Sunday and followed biblical morals and we won the cold war and we're the greatest and freest and best and God loves us.

And now there's gay people getting married and Christians can't pray in schools anymore and sex is everywhere and your religion is mocked mercilessly in the media while that other religion gets a free pass and your children are taught that God didn't create us and we're not special and traditional social power structures are collapsing and it's so hard to keep following God's word when you're surrounded by all of these things.

It's not very illogical that people become reactionary and feel like they have no power under these circumstances.
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This is a great post, and every time evangelicals are talked about like they are idiots, I wish it would get posted. Everything is circumstance.
 
sphagnum said:
You're told from birth that your religion is true and right and that following it carefully and loving God will grant you a spot in Heaven. You're told from the moment you enter Sunday School that the world around you is filled with heathens and evil people who hate God, and that you're "in the world but not of this word". Your holy book itself says that you are either with God or against God, and that you will be persecuted for believing the truth, and that it is a good thing to bear that burden because the more persecuted you are, the more you are following the word of God. Only Christians can truly love God and do what is right, so if what you are doing is hated by everyone else, then clearly you are doing the correct thing. You are also told that the devil is real and has a plan to corrupt you and everyone else and take you down to Hell, and that the Book of Revelation very clearly lays out how your religion will become the most persecuted in the world and if somehow you're left on earth you're going to have to fend for your life. And - most importantly - you're told that current events happening right now are all pointing to this happening, and you're given all the evidence you need from sources you trust, with any other sources being deemed ideologically invalid. And everyone in your family, and all of yours friends, and all of your peers and other people you keep in contact with, believe the same thing and form a tight knit community.

You are also told that the country you were born in was once a great society where everything was peachy keen and clean cut and everyone went to church on Sunday and followed biblical morals and we won the cold war and we're the greatest and freest and best and God loves us.

And now there's gay people getting married and Christians can't pray in schools anymore and sex is everywhere and your religion is mocked mercilessly in the media while that other religion gets a free pass and your children are taught that God didn't create us and we're not special and traditional social power structures are collapsing and it's so hard to keep following God's word when you're surrounded by all of these things.

It's not very illogical that people become reactionary and feel like they have no power under these circumstances.
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Of course. I feel that this disconnect from reality is all-too pervasive in the communities which you're addressing. What happens is that with such a large country and so many outlets in which to consume media and the divide between communities in the United States, it is all too easy to live in a bubble where the preconceived notion of 'America, freedom and God!' is rarely challenged and by the time you become aware that other people disagree it's almost too late.

Case in point, I remember being baffled watching Fox News once wherein a 'real American mother', whom I'm sure represents the majority of the school district, was outraged at three assertions in the new curriculum; first, it taught evolution; second, there were diagrams of sexual organs and finally, there was a philosophical question about Israel/Palestine which she took umbrage to, the question was:
“If a Palestinian suicide bomber kills several dozen Israeli teenagers in a Jerusalem restaurant, is that an act of terrorism or wartime retaliation against Israeli government policies and army actions?”
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What's fantastic here is that she linked them all to her 'Christian values' and decried this liberal agenda that was warping their children's minds.

It was at this point that the questions and topics, to me, became completely irrelevant and more apparent was the perpetual cycle of shielding children from either conflicting opinions or things you'd rather they not learn. She does this not through any level of idiocy (though perhaps ignorance) but because it is what was done to her, if there is an excusing of this level of zealotry from the minority of a majority then it'll be quite difficult to get anywhere. Hell, we can laugh but in 2009 PEW found that only 32% of Americans believe in evolution by natural selection. So really, is it up to the majority of Christians in America to tackle these people head on before this censorship is what comes to define 'American Christians', do they really want to be considered the place for Christian extremism, let alone the fact they export it to nations such as Uganda.

If this really is a minority within Christianity I almost feel as if what you've mentioned is stopping the majority of Christians from turning around and divorcing themselves of these radicals, the feeling of being attacked
must just compel them to act together, don't you think? Or is this all chalked up to irresponsible journalism essentially radicalizing a whole subset of the population?

Perhaps, though, it's merely that nice, well-meaning people that don't yell and get emotional aren't allowed on platforms to discuss these things.
 
Man If a magic genie somehow granted me one wish, just one.

I would not wish for money or eternal life or any thing that benefits just me.

I would wish for an end to all religion.
 
childplease said:
Man If a magic genie somehow granted me one wish, just one.

I would not wish for money or eternal life or any thing that benefits just me.

I would wish for an end to all religion.
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Yeah, hoping for a magical ghost to choose specifically you to change the world to your liking because you can't deal with it is totally not the dynamic of religion. :P
 
The certain brand of American Christianity that finds itself fused to the identity of "conservative" or "right-wing" is the one that is the most interesting to me, where those people interpret anything "liberal" or critical of their politics as part of the "war against Christianity".

And it's not that there are isolated incidents of anti-Christian sentiment that they perceive as a threat. It's whenever their own beliefs or religion aren't being propagated or forced upon people--and where there is no particular preference towards any specific religion expressed--that they feel that Christianity is being made taboo. It's fine if they have it entirely their way against the wishes of others, but God forbid if the conscientiousness extends to everyone else equally.

It's a peculiar minority. It goes beyond a mere identity of "Christian" since it's tied to a certain culture of politics, nationalism, and values that can at times be seen as bigoted and/or racist in their inclinations.
 
Necromanti said:
The certain brand of American Christianity that finds itself fused to the identity of "conservative" or "right-wing" is the one that is the most interesting to me, where those people interpret anything "liberal" or critical of their politics as part of the "war against Christianity".

And it's not that there are isolated incidents of anti-Christian sentiment that they perceive as a threat. It's whenever their own beliefs or religion aren't being propagated or forced upon people--and where there is no particular preference towards any specific religion expressed--that they feel that Christianity is being made taboo. It's fine if they have it entirely their way against the wishes of others, but God forbid if the conscientiousness extends to everyone else equally.

It's a peculiar minority. It goes beyond a mere identity of "Christian" since it's tied to a certain culture of politics, nationalism, and values that can at times be seen as bigoted and/or racist in their inclinations.
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And even liberal things that seem quite.aligned with Jesus like healthcare have become bad for some inexplicable reason.
 
Ugh. I hate how fashionable is to consider yourself part of an opressed group nowadays. Victimism and identity, the opium of the imbecile. Ghah. These people ought to stop embarrassing the rest of us Christians. I don't want to be associated with these dumbfucks.
 
speculawyer said:
And even liberal things that seem quite.aligned with Jesus like healthcare have become bad for some inexplicable reason.
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Supply-side jesus instead of normal jesus...also, the way in which republicans wooed the very religious back in the day has meant that both of their policies have somehow aligned.
 
Gotchaye said:
IME these are a pretty popular talking point, actually. These people often have some racist views, but with respect to brown Christians outside of the US it's a very "white man's burden" sort of racism. Many conservative Christian groups are extremely active in trying to convert Africans and are keen on moving policy in a "biblical" direction in various foreign countries (see Uganda's "kill the gays" law). There's some team identification with persecuted Christians in other countries, and I imagine that there's some appeal in vicariously experiencing really dangerous persecution of the sort that many in the US can only fantasize about (and wow do they fantasize about it).

It should really be stressed that this is a minority of American Christians. I think it's a little misleading to point to a Christian supermajority to try to show that the people who feel persecuted must be wrong - the people who feel persecuted do tend to be rather different than other Christians. But of course it's still true that this conservative Christian persecution complex is ridiculous, and they're just mad that they can't force people to live the way they want them to.

Edit: Moreover, the ones who feel persecuted agree that the Christian supermajority isn't persecuted. Of course, they don't think this supermajority is really Christian. Part of the problem, as they see it, is that basically every Christian to the left of Pat Robertson is merely "Christian". The majority of "Christians" in the country are on the side of the persecutors.
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For the most part, yes. A lot of these people don't understand what persecution actually is, but I would say it's more of an American thing, rather than simply an American Christian thing. People seem to really go out of their way to be offended in this country.

That being said, I don't think many Christians here in America understand not only what persecution truly is, but what our response to it should be. Going back to the Apostalic Fathers, we have account after account of how we should behave in the face of persecution. If and when we are discriminated against or persecuted, we should rejoice that we have been deemed worthy to suffer for Christ, not cry and whine and demand it stop.

I would be remiss, however, if I did not point out that there are those who want to persecute us (and do, to whatever extent they can, I'm sure), just as there are those who follow Christ but, through folly or falsehood, wish to persecute nonbelievers. I remember one fine fellow who proudly told anyone who'd listen that if he were in charge, all of us "religious nutjobs" would be put in concentration camps and any children that resulted would then be taken away, to ensure that our "madness" died with us. Unfortunately I had not yet begun to understand what it meant to be a Christian and have a short-temper at times, so rather than speak to him in love and gentleness as I should have, I instead called him atheism's answer to Jerry Falwell.

childplease said:
Man If a magic genie somehow granted me one wish, just one.

I would not wish for money or eternal life or any thing that benefits just me.

I would wish for an end to all religion.
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So you would wish for every person to conform to your personal beliefs about a subject? How would that not benefit you? Also, how different is that from the person who says if they could have wish or prayer answered, it'd be that every person on the planet was Christian?
 
Rhomega Beta said:
People weren't complaining about prayer in schools and 10 Commandments in front of courthouses 100 years ago, why are they now? It must be those evil commie libruls, atheists, and Muslims.
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Actually, the tensions over prayer and religious instruction in public schools go back even further...

https://www.au.org/resources/publications/prayer-and-the-public-schools

Some critics of the high court's rulings have suggested that these church-state rulings have no precedence in American history. On the contrary, the decisions are the logical outcome of a debate that has been under way in our country for many decades.

Public education for the masses, as conceived by Horace Mann and others in the mid 19th century, was intended to be "non-sectarian." In reality, however, schools often reflected the majority religious view a kind of nondenominational Protestantism. Classes began with devotional readings from the King James Version of the Bible and recitation of the Protestant version of the Lord's Prayer. Students were expected to take part whether they shared those religious sentiments or not.

Catholic families were among the first to challenge these school-sponsored religious practices. In some parts of the country, tension over religion in public schools erupted into actual violence. In Philadelphia, for example, full-scale riots and bloodshed resulted in 1844 over which version of the Bible should be used in classroom devotions. Several Catholic churches and a convent were burned; many people died. In Cincinnati, a "Bible War" divided the city in 1868 after the school board discontinued mandatory Bible instruction.

Tensions like this led to the first round of legal challenges to school-sponsored religious activity in the late 19th century. Several states ruled against the practices. Compelling children to recite prayers or read devotionals from certain versions of the Bible, these courts said, was not the job of public schools. They declared government-imposed religion a violation of state constitutions and the fundamental rights of conscience. Eventually, the U.S. Supreme Court adopted this view as well, applying the church-state separation provisions of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
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Christianity fundamentally is a religion of persecution. The tale of Jesus is one of religious and political persecution. The foundation of the Christian faith is dignity under persecution. It is no small wander that in places where Christianity is the dominant sociological force that, in order to survive, it has to manufacture persecution. Whether it be from outside forces, or from the established political regime, Christianity will always and inevitably cast itself as the religion beset upon by worldly evil. Why else would Christianity so readily splinter from itself. If you think you are a Christian and feel that your faith is not being persecuted, then you are not the right kind of Christian.
 
Red Mage said:
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So you would wish for every person to conform to your personal beliefs about a subject? How would that not benefit you? Also, how different is that from the person who says if they could have wish or prayer answered, it'd be that every person on the planet was Christian?
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You think 100% Christianity and 100% atheism are or would be equivalent?

Well, wow.
 
Even during the very short time Christians were actually persecuted it wasn't their religion but mostly political reasons that caused it. Not paying taxes, disrespecting imperial authority, dodging the army and such. The church was even hounded at periods during the Byzantine Empire for fuck's sake. Especially during Imperial Rome the central authority didn't really give a fuck who you worshipped as long as you did your duty.
 
kirblar said:
The double meaning of "Christian" (when used by Evangelicals) goes under the radar for a lot of people. Most people don't consider themselves "Christians", they consider themselves Catholic/Presbyterian/etc when prompted. When the response is "Christian" it means much more than just "Oh I like Jesus."
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I understand this, I just see alot use the term Christian as if it carries a weight of authority or moral highground, when their actions speak to a much different intention or personality.
 
Persecution and fear are motivating factors. The right exploits this for financial gain even when there is no evidence.

Death panels, $50 light bulbs, socialism, communism, national debt, takers, welfare queens, government takeover, abortion, war on xmas, terrorism, oligarchy, nanny state, illegal aliens.........
 
Not unique to America, the Christian - in particular Catholic - right wing here in Ireland, and I think elsewhere in Europe too, has been adopting the identity of the persecuted.
 
The need to feel persecuted is an essential component of religious faith. Believers need to feel like they are 'in' on the meaning behind our existence, and the feeling of persecution is a powerful catalyst for reinforcing that self deception and an effective rallying cry for cultural fervor. American Christians are experts in marketing and selling persecution.
 
gofreak said:
Not unique to America, the Christian - in particular Catholic - right wing here in Ireland, and I think elsewhere in Europe too, has been adopting the identity of the persecuted.
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Well, thankfully, they no longer seem to have any power (probably due to all the recent scandals), considering that the government seems to be pushing towards legalising gay marriage with little opposition. What's even better is about 3/4's of the population is in favour of it, so yeah, religion no longer seems to be a burden on the public.

That blasphemy law is still an embarrassment, though.
 
Stinkles said:
You think 100% Christianity and 100% atheism are or would be equivalent?

Well, wow.
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I only asked how wishing to force everyone to share your point of view on such an important matter (even if you are not religious or atheist, the fact that the choice is yours is important) is any different. You're still trying to choose for others. Would I love it if everyone in the world was a genuine Christian and acted as such? Of course. I would not love, however, using some outside means to rob everyone of their free will.
 
gofreak said:
Not unique to America, the Christian - in particular Catholic - right wing here in Ireland, and I think elsewhere in Europe too, has been adopting the identity of the persecuted.
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When they don't get their way, they feel their rights are trampled upon because they've just come to expect getting their way. It's entitlement.
 
muleyman13 said:
I understand this, I just see alot use the term Christian as if it carries a weight of authority or moral highground, when their actions speak to a much different intention or personality.
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Ah, didn't mean to imply I was trying to correct you there, just elaborating on it.
 
childplease said:
Man If a magic genie somehow granted me one wish, just one.

I would not wish for money or eternal life or any thing that benefits just me.

I would wish for an end to all religion.
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This is actually an amazing wish that would have amazing productive downstream effects. If only there were a magic genie...
 
childplease said:
Man If a magic genie somehow granted me one wish, just one.

I would not wish for money or eternal life or any thing that benefits just me.

I would wish for an end to all religion.
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I'm pretty sure you just mean the big three Abrahamic religions and maybe Hinduism. I'm not quite sure what problems are caused by Buddhism, Confuscianism, or Celtic neo-Paganism.
 
Real Hero said:
It is, there's zero hope in politics for most people.
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Yep, to this story is more than these silly Christians. Companies are fighting a war against people, most blatant example Google, Apple and Co working together to hold wages low. But with hate on unions being deeply burned into Americas psyche, there is pretty much nowhere else to go. Its sad.
 
Worshipping an undead deity that likes to bleed from it's hands and eyes all the time and occasionally purges the world in apocalyptic fire sounds really metal actually. I don't get why Christianity isn't more metal.
 
Valhelm said:
Obviously all religions have their downsides, but the overall message of Buddhism probably has a net benefit for its societies.
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Yep, all we need to do is look to where they're the majority, and it's a truly beneficial system. Just ask Sri Lanka or Burma...

Not hating on Buddhism, just pointing out that people are people.
 
And the feature film “Persecuted,” a political thriller about a federal government plan to censor Christianity in the name of liberalism, is due out in May.
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My fingers are crossed for another Lionel Mandrake review.
 
Red Mage said:
Yep, all we need to do is look to where they're the majority, and it's a truly beneficial system. Just ask Sri Lanka or Burma...

Not hating on Buddhism, just pointing out that people are people.
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This shattered my image of the world. I always thought Buddhists were some how different than the rest of us.. but yeah. People are people. Reinforced with how America treated the Irish, the racism i saw their mirrored the racism for blacks, like myself. It just seems that one group doesn't want to get along with another group is the human condition.
 
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