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[Malyse]

Fried turkey though on xmas day....shit

I need to put fried turkey on The List. Prolly between Star Wars and strawberry pie.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Fried turkey though on xmas day....shit

Sounds good..I just fear turkey. People always making some dry ass shit..

 

[DY_nasty]

This is Clinton's to lose, IMO.

Where have we heard that before? lol

 

[MHWilliams]

AoT has about the same level of storytelling as a 80s action movie. Its why its terrible and awesome.

Can't hold the whole country to that kind of shit though.

I'm just saying it's a different kind of storytelling. A Japanese project is more likely to end on more metaphorical/metaphysical moments or not wrap up loose ends. Think of how many anime or manga just end or how many amazing worlds are built without detailed explanations as to "why" those worlds exist.

This probably stems from the fact that Japan is a visual culture by nature, whereas Western works contain more description and explanation. For example, captions in American comics are normal, but they're far more rare in manga. Noh theater prioritizes stylized and symbolic physical gestures above dialog.

It stems from culture.

"East Asian thought tends to be more holistic," says Nisbett, who also heads the U-M Culture and Cognition Program. "Holistic approaches attend to the entire field, and make relatively little use of categories and formal logic. They also emphasize change, and they recognize contradiction and the need for multiple perspectives, searching for the 'Middle Way' between opposing propositions.

"Westerners are more analytic, paying attention primarily to the object and the categories to which it belongs and using rules, including formal logic, to explain and predict its behavior."

In study after study described in the book, Nisbett and colleagues from China, Korea, and Japan have found that East Asians and Americans responded in qualitatively different ways to the same stimulus situation. In one experiment, designed to test whether East Asians are more likely to attend to the whole while Westerners are more likely to focus on a particular object within the whole, Japanese and Americans viewed the same animated underwater scenes, then reported what they had seen.

"The first statement by Americans usually referred to a large fish in the foreground," says Nisbett. "They would say something like, 'There was what looked like a trout swimming to the right.' The first statement by Japanese usually referred to background elements: 'There was a lake or a pond.' The Japanese made about 70 percent more statements than Americans about background aspects of the environment, and 100 percent more statements about relationships with inanimate aspects of the environment, for example, that a big fish swam past some gray seaweed."

Here's two diagrams explaining the different parts of stories in the US and Japan, copied from an article by Japanese teacher Utako Matsuyama via this article.

In a Western story the plot is moved forward by the character’s goals. Bits of story, called episodes, are steered by subgoals that the protagonist needs to accomplish in order to conquer his or her main goal and the successes or failures of that character in meeting those goals determine the outcome. Take “Cinderella” as an example of this Western model of storytelling, she has a clearly defined goal: Go to the ball to hit on the prince. The plot progresses as she encounters opposition to that.

Instead of having goals and subgoals that carry the plot from beginning to end, the classical Japanese story grammar is guided by a series of actions and reactions that lead a character to a thematically significant resolution. Causality, rather than conflict, is the vehicle in this type of storytelling. These stories move based on character actions (or often actions outside of the control of the characters) and the motivations are often irrelevant or not elaborated upon. Matsuyama posits that the lack of a goal structure is due to the traditional Buddhist value of eliminating worldly desires, which is in direct contrast with the very goal-oriented ideas of the West. Japanese protagonists tend to be unmotivated by an initial goal in the interest of making them more classically “good” in a Buddhist sense.

This leads us to the second significant difference between Japanese and Western story grammar: the conclusion. The Japanese story grammar ends with “events and/or emphasis,” whereas the more western model ends with a “resolution.” What that effectively means is that some Japanese narratives don’t need to have a resolution, heavily based on plot events and tying up loose ends. A Japanese story can potentially conclude with plot events or it can end with “emphasis” which is to say that it just ends. The resolution in this case is an emphasis of the virtues or ideas displayed in the story.

All this is really to say we care more about the rules and details of our fictional worlds. Japanese stories are more willing to say "You gotten the emotional or thematic point, you don't need the explanation." That's not to say that there aren't exceptions and other examples, this is more talking about larger trends.

Learn you some shit today.

 

[Slayven]

Can't wait until Hilary starts talking mad shit about Barack.

 

[Malyse]

Where have we heard that before? lol

Do most people not think she's gonna take it?

 

[RP912]

Sounds good..I just fear turkey. People always making some dry ass shit..

Yea thats the thing with turkey, but it's no different from dudes coming through with woodchip ass chicken. It's a matter of going with your instincts like copping a 2 dollar game from gamestop.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Where have we heard that before? lol

Shit..I expect Benghazi to Benghazi soon. Once Benghazi happens, surely Benghazi will Benghazi..which is purely Benghazi, with just a hint of Lewinsky..mark my words.

Yea thats the thing with turkey, but it's no different from dudes coming through with woodchip ass chicken. It's a matter of going with your instincts like copping a 2 dollar game from gamestop.

You right.

 

[Malyse]

Yea thats the thing with turkey, but it's no different from dudes coming through with woodchip ass chicken. It's a matter of going with your instincts like copping a 2 dollar game from gamestop.

I got a mint Ico for eight dollars.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I got a mint Ico for eight dollars.

Ha! Got mine for $3.

 

[RP912]

I got a mint Ico for eight dollars.

I got the ps3 memory card reader for 99 cents. Folks be sleeping on gamestop.

 

[Mumei]

Top 5:

Monster
Mushishi
Legend of the Galactic Heroes
Rurouni Kenshin Tsuiokuhen (Samuai X: Trust & Betrayal)
One Piece

Honorable Mentions:

Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo
Juuni Kokki (The Twelve Kingdoms)
Planetes
Hajime no Ippo
Great Teacher Onizuka
Hunter x Hunter (original + OVAs or 2011)
Hikaru no Go
Azumanga Daioh
Cowboy Bebop
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex + 2nd GiG
Natsume's Book of Friends
Assorted Ghibli movies (Laputa, Nausicaa, Grave, Mononoke, Spirited, etc.)

Oh, believe you me, I was about to hit the Nope.gif on that show until I seen ol' girl rip another girl's head off with no hands.

From then, it got me hooked. All the head-shaking moments were made up for with the finest gore I had seen in an anime at the time.

I, too, enjoyed the over-the-top gore. If only the rest of it weren't so cringe-worthy.

 

[Slayven]

Top 5:

Monster
Mushishi
Legend of the Galactic Heroes
Rurouni Kenshin Tsuiokuhen (Samuai X: Trust & Betrayal)
One Piece

Honorable Mentions:

Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo
Juuni Kokki (The Twelve Kingdoms)
Planetes
Hajime no Ippo
Great Teacher Onizuka
Hunter x Hunter (original + OVAs or 2011)
Hikaru no Go
Azumanga Daioh
Cowboy Bebop
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex + 2nd GiG
Natsume's Book of Friends
Assorted Ghibli movies (Laputa, Nausicaa, Grave, Mononoke, Spirited, etc.)



I, too, enjoyed the over-the-top gore. If only the rest of it weren't so cringe-worthy.

Slumming again?

 

[jmood88]

Can't wait until Hilary starts talking mad shit about Barack.

Fuck Hilary. I hope Deval Patrick changes his mind and runs so that she can get beat by another black dude.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Fuck Hilary. I hope Deval Patrick changes his mind and runs so that she can get beat by another black dude.

LOL

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Top 5:

Monster
Mushishi
Legend of the Galactic Heroes
Rurouni Kenshin Tsuiokuhen (Samuai X: Trust & Betrayal)
One Piece

Honorable Mentions:

Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo
Juuni Kokki (The Twelve Kingdoms)
Planetes
Hajime no Ippo
Great Teacher Onizuka
Hunter x Hunter (original + OVAs or 2011)
Hikaru no Go
Azumanga Daioh
Cowboy Bebop
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex + 2nd GiG
Natsume's Book of Friends
Assorted Ghibli movies (Laputa, Nausicaa, Grave, Mononoke, Spirited, etc.)



I, too, enjoyed the over-the-top gore. If only the rest of it weren't so cringe-worthy.

I watched Azumanga Daioh while drunk off my face and it was great.

Spoiler

I then watched it sober and it was also great.

 

[MHWilliams]

I watched Azumanga Daioh while drunk off my face and it was great.

Spoiler

I then watched it sober and it was also great.

You should try Nichijou.

 

[CountBlack]

Great Teacher Onizuka really surprised me. I had it on my computer for a while but never bothered.. one day I was bored and decided to start it up.


so good.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Great Teacher Onizuka really surprised me. I had it on my computer for a while but never bothered.. one day I was born and decided to start it up.


so good.

I should hope so lol.

 

[Jacir]

Fuck Hilary. I hope Deval Patrick changes his mind and runs so that she can get beat by another black dude.

But doesn't she want the....D? Whose running anyway?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I should hope so lol.

lol..did a double take myself.

 

[Kreed]

Fuck Hilary. I hope Deval Patrick changes his mind and runs so that she can get beat by another black dude.

There's no way on Earth we are getting back to back black men in the white house. Republicans will start calling him Obama 2.0 and that will be a wrap.

 

[Cat]

Fuck Hilary. I hope Deval Patrick changes his mind and runs so that she can get beat by another black dude.

I liked this speech at the 2012 Democratic convention. I looked him up recently to see he was no longer the Massachusetts governor and went back to work in the private sector. I heard he was recently on CNN talking about the Black Lives Matter movement and leadership.

 

[CountBlack]

I should hope so lol.

ayyyyyy lmao

 

[jWILL253]

MHWilliams wit dat learnin'!

So, basically, Western storytelling is "There's shit happening. How do we make sure the characters and story come to a resolution?", while East Asian storytelling is "There's shit happening, and I ain't got time to be explaining shit to you. Look at the whole picture. #Dealwithit."

Ugh.

 

[FeenixRising]

And you are in tune with your inner K-on

The fuck?

*googles*


No you didn't

 

[Jackben]

MHWilliams wit dat learnin'!

So, basically, Western storytelling is "There's shit happening. How do we make sure the characters and story come to a resolution?", while East Asian storytelling is "There's shit happening, and I ain't got time to be explaining shit to you. Look at the whole picture. #Dealwithit."

Ugh.

Honestly I don't mind the second one at all. Which is why I think I get along with Dark Souls story and lore so well. I do think there is a happy medium, but too much hand-holding turns me away.

 

[jmood88]

There's no way on Earth we are getting back to back black men in the white house. Republicans will start calling him Obama 2.0 and that will be a wrap.

I don't actually expect it to happen but it's my dream.

 

[Slayven]

I'm just saying it's a different kind of storytelling. A Japanese project is more likely to end on more metaphorical/metaphysical moments or not wrap up loose ends. Think of how many anime or manga just end or how many amazing worlds are built without detailed explanations as to "why" those worlds exist.

This probably stems from the fact that Japan is a visual culture by nature, whereas Western works contain more description and explanation. For example, captions in American comics are normal, but they're far more rare in manga. Noh theater prioritizes stylized and symbolic physical gestures above dialog.

It stems from culture.

Here's two diagrams explaining the different parts of stories in the US and Japan, copied from an article by Japanese teacher Utako Matsuyama via this article.

All this is really to say we care more about the rules and details of our fictional worlds. Japanese stories are more willing to say "You gotten the emotional or thematic point, you don't need the explanation." That's not to say that there aren't exceptions and other examples, this is more talking about larger trends.

Learn you some shit today.

that is some good shit. Explains why Asian horror movies always irk me.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Top 5:

Monster
Mushishi
Legend of the Galactic Heroes
Rurouni Kenshin Tsuiokuhen (Samuai X: Trust & Betrayal)
One Piece

Honorable Mentions:

Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo
Juuni Kokki (The Twelve Kingdoms)
Planetes
Hajime no Ippo
Great Teacher Onizuka
Hunter x Hunter (original + OVAs or 2011)
Hikaru no Go
Azumanga Daioh
Cowboy Bebop
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex + 2nd GiG
Natsume's Book of Friends
Assorted Ghibli movies (Laputa, Nausicaa, Grave, Mononoke, Spirited, etc.)



I, too, enjoyed the over-the-top gore. If only the rest of it weren't so cringe-worthy.

I love monster and mushishi. Mushishi doesnt get enough love but i guess shonen are whats popular.

 

[Malyse]

I love monster and mushishi. Mushishi doesnt get enough love but i guess shonen arecwhats popular.

Shounen, Yuri, incest, and light novels with extremely long names.

 

[n00bsauce87]

Top 5:

Monster
Mushishi
Legend of the Galactic Heroes
Rurouni Kenshin Tsuiokuhen (Samuai X: Trust & Betrayal)
One Piece

Honorable Mentions:

Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo
Juuni Kokki (The Twelve Kingdoms)
Planetes
Hajime no Ippo
Great Teacher Onizuka
Hunter x Hunter (original + OVAs or 2011)
Hikaru no Go
Azumanga Daioh
Cowboy Bebop
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex + 2nd GiG
Natsume's Book of Friends
Assorted Ghibli movies (Laputa, Nausicaa, Grave, Mononoke, Spirited, etc.)



I, too, enjoyed the over-the-top gore. If only the rest of it weren't so cringe-worthy.

Not a whole lot of people like Mushishi, let alone know about it. You've earned some points today. It's really good. Something to appreciate nature, lore and legends.

 

[jWILL253]

Honestly I don't mind the second one at all. Which is why I think I get along with Dark Souls story and lore so well. I do think there is a happy medium, but too much hand-holding turns me away.

Problem is, when you don't care about character goals, motivations, and resolution, you are pretty much allowing your story a chance to go full potato quickly.

Take the Tekken series, for instance. Fighting games aren't really all that known for their deep storytelling, but Tekken is among the worst. Because shit just happens in that story, the characters end up all over the place, and there is no explanation for any of it. And it leaves the player with a lot of questions like "How did Heihachi survive being thrown into a volcano? How did Kazuya survive being thrown into a volcano? Why did Jun choose Kazuya of all people to have a kid with? How did Kazuya end up with the Devil Gene? Who the fuck is Jinpachi? Why does everyone in the Mishima bloodline hate each other? Why did Jin turn heel after T5? What is Ling Xiaoyu's relationship with Heihachi & Jin? Where the fuck did these bears come from??? Why do all these characters keep showing up to the tournament when the same 3 people keep winning?" None of these things are explained in the games, and Tekken: Blood Vengeance was an attempt to explain at least SOME of it, but did so poorly in what is the worst game-tie-in film I've ever seen.

I'll never forgive Namco for what they did to Jin. He is my favorite character in that series, and they inexplicably turned him heel for no apparent reason.

 

[Malyse]

Slumming again?

So ignorant.

 

[Slayven]

So ignorant.

Stay out of grownfolks inside jokes.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Problem is, when you don't care about character goals, motivations, and resolution, you are pretty much allowing your story a chance to go full potato quickly.

Take the Tekken series, for instance. Fighting games aren't really all that known for their deep storytelling, but Tekken is among the worst. Because shit just happens in that story, the characters end up all over the place, and there is no explanation for any of it. And it leaves the player with a lot of questions like "How did Heihachi survive being thrown into a volcano? How did Kazuya survive being thrown into a volcano? Why did Jun choose Kazuya of all people to have a kid with? How did Kazuya end up with the Devil Gene? Who the fuck is Jinpachi? Why does everyone in the Mishima bloodline hate each other? Why did Jin turn heel after T5? What is Ling Xiaoyu's relationship with Heihachi & Jin? Where the fuck did these bears come from??? Why do all these characters keep showing up to the tournament when the same 3 people keep winning?" None of these things are explained in the games, and Tekken: Blood Vengeance was an attempt to explain at least SOME of it, but did so poorly in what is the worst game-tie-in film I've ever seen.

I'll never forgive Namco for what they did to Jin. He is my favorite character in that series, and they inexplicably turned him heel for no apparent reason.

Lol the people demand answers Ishi!

 

[Angelus Errare]

Tekken story was meh at best. Then Namco caved into fan demands to bring Kazuya back and the story plummeted even faster from there.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I don't think there's a single fighting game out there with a good story. Well I heard Persona 4 Arena's very story focused, I haven't played the story mode though. I think once or if Skullgirls comes out with its sequel that has an established timeline, then that could be one that actually produces a decent narrative.

Oh wait, I forgot about Injustice Gods Amongs Us. I just watched it on Youtube and thought it was pretty good, despite it just feeling basically like Crisis on Two Earths. That same kind of story seems to pop up a lot in DC; Crisis on Two Earths/Infinite Earths, that episode of Justice League. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more.

 

[Malyse]

Jeezus that's terrifying.

 

[DY_nasty]

I don't think there's a single fighting game out there with a good story. Well I heard Persona 4 Arena's very story focused, I haven't played the story mode though. I think once or if Skullgirls comes out with its sequel that has an established timeline, then that could be one that actually produces a decent narrative.

Oh wait, I forgot about Injustice Gods Amongs Us. I just watched it on Youtube and thought it was pretty good, despite it just feeling basically like Crisis on Two Earths.

Guilty Gear's story is entertaining is fuck once you dedicate the years necessary to actually make sense of it.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I don't think there's a single fighting game out there with a good story. Well I heard Persona 4 Arena's very story focused, I haven't played the story mode though. I think once or if Skullgirls comes out with its sequel that has an established timeline, then that could be one that actually produces a decent narrative.

Oh wait, I forgot about Injustice Gods Amongs Us. I just watched it on Youtube and thought it was pretty good, despite it just feeling basically like Crisis on Two Earths. That same kind of story seems to pop up a lot in DC; Crisis on Two Earths/Infinite Earths, that episode of Justice League. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more.

Fatal Fury bro.
KoF Orochi Saga yo

 

[Jackben]

Problem is, when you don't care about character goals, motivations, and resolution, you are pretty much allowing your story a chance to go full potato quickly.

Take the Tekken series, for instance. Fighting games aren't really all that known for their deep storytelling, but Tekken is among the worst. Because shit just happens in that story, the characters end up all over the place, and there is no explanation for any of it.

It's Tekken though. Story will always be secondary to gameplay and the story that is there isn't afraid to take inexplicable creative license based on what seems fun or interesting to the writers at the time. Which is how a fighting game should be. Maybe it's just me but Soul Caliber, Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter don't make any fucking sense to me either. Tekken is probably the worst offender out of all of those in terms of having nonsensical elements and inconsistent character roles but it's not something I worry about much if at all.

 

[Malyse]

Fatal Fury bro.
KoF Orochi Saga yo

You've got to be kidding. KoF is my main, but even I think it's bullshit nonsense.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

I slowly turned into Peter from Office Space, trying to do as much work necessary not to get fired and zero more.

 

[Master Milk]

I don't think there's a single fighting game out there with a good story. Well I heard Persona 4 Arena's very story focused, I haven't played the story mode though. I think once or if Skullgirls comes out with its sequel that has an established timeline, then that could be one that actually produces a decent narrative.

Oh wait, I forgot about Injustice Gods Amongs Us. I just watched it on Youtube and thought it was pretty good, despite it just feeling basically like Crisis on Two Earths. That same kind of story seems to pop up a lot in DC; Crisis on Two Earths/Infinite Earths, that episode of Justice League. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more.

Yea, Skullgirls will probably do it decently if it ever comes to pass.

I feel like licensed properties are cheating, since they've already got stories and established settings to pull from.

For original fighters, I think Rival Schools had an alright story.

 

[jmood88]

I slowly turned into Peter from Office Space, trying to do as much work necessary not to get fired and zero more.

I've been like that all of my working life. I really hope that changes once I'm doing a job in a field I actually care about.

 

[Cat]

I was really into Tekken 5 because Devil Jin is my favorite fictional character of all time and very interested in the shift of Jin's story in Tekken 6 until the game reached closer to release. Too much hate on something so trivial inside me to spill all that out in here, but I re-distanced my interest in the series since then.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Mortal Kombat had the best fighting game stories.

 

[Mumei]

Slumming again?

dfsklfdajlk;f

I said One Piece, not Bleach.

 

[FeenixRising]

Problem is, when you don't care about character goals, motivations, and resolution, you are pretty much allowing your story a chance to go full potato quickly.

Take the Tekken series, for instance. Fighting games aren't really all that known for their deep storytelling, but Tekken is among the worst. Because shit just happens in that story, the characters end up all over the place, and there is no explanation for any of it. And it leaves the player with a lot of questions like "How did Heihachi survive being thrown into a volcano? How did Kazuya survive being thrown into a volcano? Why did Jun choose Kazuya of all people to have a kid with? How did Kazuya end up with the Devil Gene? Who the fuck is Jinpachi? Why does everyone in the Mishima bloodline hate each other? Why did Jin turn heel after T5? What is Ling Xiaoyu's relationship with Heihachi & Jin? Where the fuck did these bears come from??? Why do all these characters keep showing up to the tournament when the same 3 people keep winning?" None of these things are explained in the games, and Tekken: Blood Vengeance was an attempt to explain at least SOME of it, but did so poorly in what is the worst game-tie-in film I've ever seen.

I'll never forgive Namco for what they did to Jin. He is my favorite character in that series, and they inexplicably turned him heel for no apparent reason.

I'll try to answer some of those questions

-Heihachi was never thrown into a volcano, he was thrown off the same cliff he threw Kazuya down when he was a child. (It was a test of strength to see if Kazuya was strong enough to take over the company) Heihachi survived off pure will power, in the same vein he survived being blown up by JACK in Tekken 5 (though he wasn't supposed to, fan backlash brought him back)

-Kazuya didn't survive, he was resurrected shortly after by the G Corporation and spent the next 20 years recovering, then he makes his return in Tekken 4.

-They never answered the Jun/Kazuya question... though popular theory was that he seduced her.

-After Heihachi thrown Kazuya off the cliff when he was a child, Kazuya made a deal with the devil for him to survive.

-Jinpachi is Heihachi's father, Heihachi led a coup to take the Mishima Zaibatsu from him and had him imprisoned under Honmaru, he later made a similar deal with the devil for him to survive.

-Everyone's hatred stems from Heihachi doing them dirty, imprisoning Jinpachi, throwing Kazuya off a cliff... then later a volcano, shooting Jin in the head... etc

-Ishi was Heihachi's pet he trained.

-Jin turned bad because the source of the Devil Gene (Azazael) is powered by hatred and war, so in order to summon him and defeat him... Jin took the Mishima Zaibatsu from Heihachi and started a war.

-Idk why the same 3 people keep winning, although Paul Pheonix is the closest non-mishima fighter to win the tournament. He had almost won Tekken 3 by defeating Ogre, then left before he can turn into True Ogre.

-Tekken Blood Vengeance is just pure cabbage.