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The Black Culture Thread |OT13| Kimba is the New Blacked

To be frank, judging a candidate by their supporters is silly in itself. I try to not look at the supporters of candidates (although Trump's confirms to me all kinds of awful) because they generally represent the team aspect of American politics. I remember a lot of Obama supporters justifying voting for him because he was black. Not that voting for him because he's black is an inherently bad thing, but when you're doing it absent his actual policies, that's a problem, as seen in the Obama episode on the Boondocks. American supporters of politicians are almost always fervent and rowdy and illogical. This just represents another broken element of our already cracked political system.
 
To be frank, judging a candidate by their supporters is silly in itself. I try to not look at the supporters of candidates (although Trump's confirms to me all kinds of awful) because they generally represent the team aspect of American politics. I remember a lot of Obama supporters justifying voting for him because he was black. Not that voting for him because he's black is an inherently bad thing, but when you're doing it absent his actual policies, that's a problem, as seen in the Obama episode on the Boondocks. American supporters of politicians are almost always fervent and rowdy and illogical. This just represents another broken element of our already cracked political system.

You're not listening to what we've been saying if this is your response.

I've said before that I don't feel Sanders supporters are a reflection on the man himself. I like Bernie. I've listened to him speak and feel he's a good candidate. I've also listened to Clinton speak, and feel she'd be a decent president, although she does have her faults. This is simply how many people feel, and when the decision is handwaved because "I don't know my best interests" or "I don't know Bernie" that shit is infuriating.

You may not realize it, but you're being condescending. The things you're saying are not on the level of what was going on in that thread, but your incredulity that people don't agree with you is affecting how you see those people. It's not like the GOP where every candidate is a clown who can be clowned with nigh impunity.

How old are you?
 
Damn. I see you, Bette.

untitled23ps7a.png
 
You're not listening to what we've been saying if this is your response.

I've said before that I don't feel Sanders supporters are a reflection on the man himself. I like Bernie. I've listened to him speak and feel he's a good candidate. I've also listened to Clinton speak, and feel she'd be a decent president, although she does have her faults. This is simply how many people feel, and when the decision is handwaved because "I don't know my best interests" or "I don't know Bernie" that shit is infuriating.

You may not realize it, but you're being condescending. The things you're saying are not on the level of what was going on in that thread, but your incredulity that people don't agree with you is affecting how you see those people. It's not like the GOP where every candidate is a clown who can be clowned with nigh impunity.

How old are you?

You're not listening to me and you act like I haven't deal with the "you don't know your best interests" thing. Especially when BLM activists interrupt Bernie and I had to explain why I felt it was a good thing they did.

I'm not even talking about Bernie or Clinton in that post. Please find where in that post I even typed Clinton or Sanders. I was speaking in general as there's a lot of discussion of different candidates' supporters today. Not just Bernie's, but also Hilary's. I even commented on Hilary supporters a page back. It was mostly a reminder to myself to stay grounded, as a reminder, that this will come with politics unfortunately and to try to not get swept up in the cult of personality that MikeBreezy spoke of.

I'm finding you equally condescending.

I'm 30.
 

Crocodile

Member
To be frank, judging a candidate by their supporters is silly in itself. I try to not look at the supporters of candidates (although Trump's confirms to me all kinds of awful) because they generally represent the team aspect of American politics. I remember a lot of Obama supporters justifying voting for him because he was black. Not that voting for him because he's black is an inherently bad thing, but when you're doing it absent his actual policies, that's a problem, as seen in the Obama episode on the Boondocks. American supporters of politicians are almost always fervent and rowdy and illogical. This just represents another broken element of our already cracked political system.

Well yes and no. A candidate and their supporters are distinct people. However,

A)
The type of people attracted to a candidate often tell you a lot about their message and goals. Like for the Trump example you provided, that a lot of his supporters seem to be a mixture of poorly educated, racist, xenophobic, primarily white people who feel betrayed by the GOP. This a reflection of his frankly racist and xenophobic campaign that puts personality and abrasiveness over policy substance and that has often attacked GOP gospel.

For Sanders, that fact that his support base is predominantly young, liberal and white (not exclusively) is reflection of a campaign & message that puts economic populism above all, frames things in exciting terms like "revolution" and advocates policies that sound very appealing but are hard or problematic to implement - a prospect that is less relevant if someone is less politically experienced or prone to over-estimate the power of the President (young people).

B) The support base for a candidate should serve as a good intermediary and promoter. If you don't know much about a candidate and want to learn more, if the people you meet are assholes in one way or the other, you're going to be turned off irregardless if that's fair. Like if you go to a strore and the volunteers or employees there are assholes to you, you're going to think less of the store and the store owner.

Or to use a real life example - there was a news story in the SC Primary thread where a Sanders volunteered called a woman to try to sell her on Sanders. At the end, he basically said the woman should support Sanders because he advocated for welfare. Said woman didn't take it well for obvious reasons. Obviously Sanders himself would never be that dumb or rude but now that woman has that negative association because said volunteer was and advocate for Sanders.
 
You're not listening to me and you act like I haven't deal with the "you don't know your best interests" thing. Especially when BLM activists interrupt Bernie and I had to explain why I felt it was a good thing they did.

I'm not even talking about Bernie or Clinton in that post. Please find where in that post I even typed Clinton or Sanders. I was speaking in general as there's a lot of discussion of different candidates' supporters today. Not just Bernie's, but also Hilary's. I even commented on Hilary supporters a page back. It was mostly a reminder to myself to stay grounded, as a reminder, that this will come with politics unfortunately and to try to not get swept up in the cult of personality that MikeBreezy spoke of.

I'm finding you equally condescending.

I'm 30.

Who are you even addressing in here that's been doing that?
 
Damn. I see you, Bette.

untitled23ps7a.png
Fucking hate this woman..reminds me of my kid's grandmother. Why you gotta show me positive things? Damn it..
Huh? I replied directly to the post you made above.

No one in this thread is doing anything I mentioned in that post you quoted.
Honestly, I kinda took it like you were talking about folks in here. Just looked that way, I guess..

---

My fucking back is killing me..
 

Crocodile

Member
Granted, I'd be lying if I said I followed the words of Bette Milder very closely over the years but I don't ever recall her speaking out on issues of race in the past. That tweet feels kind of opportunistic (but I mean its still a good point). I admit though, again, I haven't been closely following her over the years so maybe I'm just being an ignorant asshole here.
 

still no.

Granted, I'd be lying if I said I followed the words of Bette Milder very closely over the years but I don't ever recall her speaking out on issues of race in the past. That tweet feels kind of opportunistic (but I mean its still a good point). I admit though, again, I haven't been closely following her over the years so maybe I'm just being an ignorant asshole here.

she's one of those people who doesn't say anything unless they got something good to save far as i know about her. You don't do 51 years in the biz and don't got a "Controversy" section of your wikipedia page on accident
 
Well yes and no. A candidate and their supporters are distinct people. However,

A)
The type of people attracted to a candidate often tell you a lot about their message and goals. Like for the Trump example you provided, that a lot of his supporters seem to be a mixture of poorly educated, racist, xenophobic, primarily white people who feel betrayed by the GOP. This a reflection of his frankly racist and xenophobic campaign that puts personality and abrasiveness over policy substance and that has often attacked GOP gospel.

For Sanders, that fact that his support base is predominantly young, liberal and white (not exclusively) is reflection of a campaign & message that puts economic populism above all, frames things in exciting terms like "revolution" and advocates policies that sound very appealing but are hard or problematic to implement - a prospect that is less relevant if someone is less politically experienced or prone to over-estimate the power of the President (young people).

B) The support base for a candidate should serve as a good intermediary and promoter. If you don't know much about a candidate and want to learn more, if the people you meet are assholes in one way or the other, you're going to be turned off irregardless if that's fair. Like if you go to a strore and the volunteers or employees there are assholes to you, you're going to think less of the store and the store owner.

Or to use a real life example - there was a news story in the SC Primary thread where a Sanders volunteered called a woman to try to sell her on Sanders. At the end, he basically said the woman should support Sanders because he advocated for welfare. Said woman didn't take it well for obvious reasons. Obviously Sanders himself would never be that dumb or rude but now that woman has that negative association because said volunteer was and advocate for Sanders.

Most of this is true. I'd say it's a bit of both. Politicians are going to say their own thing, and sometimes they attract the right audience they're going for (Trump). Sometimes, in the case of Bernie, they attract an audience that isn't the best advocate of their message despite that message being an earnest and legitimate one that is misinterpreted.

I disagree with that a lot of Bernie's policies are impossible to implement, though. I think our priorities are way off depending on what it is. People argued a few weeks back Bernie's healthcare plan would cost 1 trillion, but merely hand wave the Iraq war which cost us 2 trillion. So, priorities.
 
As Gordon said, it seemed like you were aiming at people in here in response to what we were discussing re: the primary/caucus thread.

I was. I was just trying to point out that it seemed like every time I pop in here you guys are going off about Bernie bros but don't seem bothered when Clinton gunned for black support by putting civil rights leaders against each other. I think both Bernie and Hilary have race problems, but that's what I come to expect from a white Democratic candidate. For the most part, they see us as nothing more than pawns for votes. I've accepted that, and just try to vote for whose ideology meshes with mine the most.
 

D i Z

Member
I'm voting for Hilary if she gets the nom for SCOTUS.

My problem is that people fail to regard the diversity of Bernie's supporters, and assume they're all white and male. You even have the term Berniebro. So a few Bernie supporters act like morons, and suddenly that takes away from the candidate's cause, but you guys are more than willing to defend Clinton, who used race and birther tactics against Obama in 08.

You're perfectly willing to get defensive when people play the "we're the one team for you, black people" despite Hilary's camp being in on that very thing, even to the point where Hilary literally started a war for support between civil rights activists and black leaders. You're perfectly willing to classify Bernie supporters as Berniebros without one inkling of thinking that some of us black and not even male.

Please choose.

When the term Berniebro is used, I would think that it would be obvious what kind of demographic was being discussed, especially in here. The terminology isn't confusing in origin or context. A lot has been covered over this part of the political cycle in this thread. We're not lacking in self awareness. But it seems that you are ascribing behavior to this group as if everyone here were of one mind politically. You'd know that to be far from true if you looked to engage more and kick rocks less. And yeah, you are coming of as a bit condescending in your posts. No biggie, we're all adults here. We can discuss without the pointing and finger waving.

"Please choose"

Most already have. What's the problem?
 
I was. I was just trying to point out that it seemed like every time I pop in here you guys are going off about Bernie bros but don't seem bothered when Clinton gunned for black support by putting civil rights leaders against each other. I think both Bernie and Hilary have race problems, but that's what I come to expect from a white Democratic candidate. For the most part, they see us as nothing more than pawns for votes. I've accepted that, and just try to vote for whose ideology meshes with mine the most.

You should look at more of our posts across threads to get a clearer picture. For example, the thread (got closed ultimately) where the BLM protester interrupted her to get an answer on her "superpredator" rhetoric from the past. There's no blind love for Hillary here.

You can't read us responding to Bernie supporters saying blacks are too dumb to choose the right candidate as blind devotion to Hillary. If I see a Hillary supporter doing the same thing I'll cut just as quickly.
 
You should look at more of our posts across threads to get a clearer picture. For example, the thread (got closed ultimately) where the BLM protester interrupted her to get an answer on her "superpredator" rhetoric from the past. There's no blind love for Hillary here.

You can't read us responding to Bernie supporters saying blacks are too dumb to choose the right candidate as blind devotion to Hillary. If I see a Hillary supporter doing the same thing I'll cut just as quickly.

Aight, I am in 100% agreement then. I'm so used to people who do the Berniebro thing as having blind devotion to Hilary. It's definitely a thing, and it was my mistake to assume y'all were on that tip.
 

Crocodile

Member
Most of this is true. I'd say it's a bit of both. Politicians are going to say their own thing, and sometimes they attract the right audience they're going for (Trump). Sometimes, in the case of Bernie, they attract an audience that isn't the best advocate of their message despite that message being an earnest and legitimate one that is misinterpreted.

I disagree with that a lot of Bernie's policies are impossible to implement, though. I think our priorities are way off depending on what it is. People argued a few weeks back Bernie's healthcare plan would cost 1 trillion, but merely hand wave the Iraq war which cost us 2 trillion. So, priorities.

A) Part of Sanders message is "anti-establishment". I understand what he means by that but using that sort of message is going to attract people who care more about "anti-establishment"ism than any sort of policy issue. It's also hurt him with AA voters I feel (this is only my conjecture - not something I'm stating as fact). Bernie is anti-establishment and wanted to primary Obama. Obama is part of the establishment and very popular, especially among Black people. You can see why that might be a problem for him in certain States.

B) I mean Obama had the Congress on his side in his first two years and could only get his crippled ACA to pass. Sanders is somehow going to make the jump all the way to Single-Payer with a Republican Congress? Now will I obviously agree with you that Single-Payer is better than a War, that still doesn't negate the cost or logistic issues in moving to Single-Payer full stop rather than just building on the ACA. Plus you're not going to have the fear of God or lies on your side to make people vote on the issue hard enough to be willing to overlook the costs.
 
Slay is like Logan and twinkies.......
Bruh don't age after a while lol.

Sidenote: Slay your opinions on Watchmen?

Not Slayven but highly overrated. It's worth reading for the historical value but there are much, much better Alan Moore comics than Watchmen such as V for Vendetta, Swamp Thing, or League.
 
To be frank, judging a candidate by their supporters is silly in itself. I try to not look at the supporters of candidates (although Trump's confirms to me all kinds of awful) because they generally represent the team aspect of American politics. I remember a lot of Obama supporters justifying voting for him because he was black. Not that voting for him because he's black is an inherently bad thing, but when you're doing it absent his actual policies, that's a problem, as seen in the Obama episode on the Boondocks. American supporters of politicians are almost always fervent and rowdy and illogical. This just represents another broken element of our already cracked political system.
.
my great grandma said:
shit draws flies
 
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